Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on April 30, 2003, 03:17:57 pm

Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Sandwich on April 30, 2003, 03:17:57 pm
Not saying you'll get one, but I'm curious. ;)
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on April 30, 2003, 03:25:07 pm
Why make a separate subforum?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on April 30, 2003, 03:29:11 pm
No.

Edit:  Are you feeling ok Sandwich?  ;)
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Styxx on April 30, 2003, 03:30:09 pm
No.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on April 30, 2003, 03:41:21 pm
Well, the admins are in agreement :p
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Fineus on April 30, 2003, 03:44:17 pm
If properly moderated, but it goes against GS, our site... pretty much everything but the fact we're a community.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Solatar on April 30, 2003, 03:46:39 pm
If you do make one, it will end up as a sort of "The Pit®"...


If you moderate it well enough, it could turn out to be a good thing.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Martinus on April 30, 2003, 03:49:24 pm
[color=66ff00]The forum you're actually looking for is Holy Light Productions. I don't know the URL.[/color]

Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
:p
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on April 30, 2003, 03:49:26 pm
Make it a Debate forum as a sort of outlet for people. It lessens the clutter in the main forum as well. All sorts of stuff can end up there like politics, religion, science. then you can keep the main board purely gaming/computer related.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on April 30, 2003, 03:53:12 pm
Versus debates, eh?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on April 30, 2003, 03:55:19 pm
No not versus (although that'd be FUN) just general debates as in the religion thread and war thread.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Nico on April 30, 2003, 03:58:13 pm
no. I think those threads should be banned from HLP actually ( a gaming website if I'm not mistaken ).
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on April 30, 2003, 03:59:00 pm
That's why I said 'no' to the concept.  I am fully aware it's a gaming site.  Having a religion subforum is just silly and doesn't fit at all.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:00:57 pm
no.

*goes back to playing strip poker with 3 16-year-old girlies*
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on April 30, 2003, 04:01:56 pm
People are going to talk about it one way or another. Unless you want to punish those who do (which seems quite dictatorish) I think it "can" be done. Though its not very... well whatever... I frankly don't care :p
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on April 30, 2003, 04:03:33 pm
Who's being punished?  Did I mention anything about punishing people?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:04:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
People are going to talk about it one way or another. Unless you want to punish those who do (which seems quite dictatorish)


RIIIIGHT
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Nico on April 30, 2003, 04:07:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Who's being punished?  Did I mention anything about punishing people?


oooooooooooh yeeeees, punish ussssss! yeeeees!!!!!!

somehow that really doesn't sound right when I write that :doubt:
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on April 30, 2003, 04:07:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Who's being punished?  Did I mention anything about punishing people?


:blah:

I quote: "UNLESS"
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:09:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venom


oooooooooooh yeeeees, punish ussssss! yeeeees!!!!!!

somehow that really doesn't sound right when I write that :doubt:

It could be worse. You could be attracted to spanking small wuddly lesbian poodles, like me.




I did not say that.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: CP5670 on April 30, 2003, 04:12:23 pm
don't care. :D

There aren't really enough topics on that to warrant a whole forum though; just one every few months, for which I think this forum should work fine.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:13:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
don't care. :D

I can't really say this comes as a relief.:doubt:
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: CP5670 on April 30, 2003, 04:17:51 pm
well if I have time, I will drop a couple of essays into one of those topics for fun, but making a new forum for that isn't going to really make any difference...
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:19:09 pm
It'll end up having a couple of thousand posts, and then being locked as the Iraq thread. Which is the only way fo rthese threads/forums to go
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: CP5670 on April 30, 2003, 04:19:53 pm
The arguing provides some enjoyment at any rate; that's all I care about as far as those threads go. :D
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: beatspete on April 30, 2003, 04:32:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
don't care. :D

There aren't really enough topics on that to warrant a whole forum though; just one every few months, for which I think this forum should work fine.



What he said. :yes:
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: diamondgeezer on April 30, 2003, 04:34:34 pm
It'd give Stryke something to do, at least
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Knight Templar on April 30, 2003, 04:37:24 pm
I say no.

If I wanted to hear a bunch of regurgitated arguements about whats right and wrong and where babies/the universe really come from, I'd pay attention in chuch.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:38:45 pm
you mean you actually go to church? :wtf:

that was unexpected
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Knight Templar on April 30, 2003, 04:50:32 pm
You're not assuming I wanted to in the first place, are you?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stunaep on April 30, 2003, 04:51:26 pm
and I thought that church thing was only in Simpsons...
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: 01010 on April 30, 2003, 04:53:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
no.

*goes back to playing strip poker with 3 16-year-old girlies*


You pimp you.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Knight Templar on April 30, 2003, 04:54:07 pm
Even Bart has to hear each sunday morning about how he's going to hell. Thing most people don't realise is that they're already there :doubt:

Quote
Originally posted by 01010


You pimp you.


Who said he was winning?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Blue Lion on April 30, 2003, 05:09:00 pm
No, not really
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Corsair on April 30, 2003, 06:07:22 pm
no
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Carl on April 30, 2003, 06:19:43 pm
errr....no.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Bobboau on April 30, 2003, 08:26:45 pm
yes
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on April 30, 2003, 09:11:52 pm
Vote Green!
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Mr. Vega on April 30, 2003, 09:56:37 pm
No, more people would see debates here anyway.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: kasperl on May 01, 2003, 03:01:45 am
yes, i think it would be a great idea, i'm just not sure wheter or not the admins are up to the immens worklaod of moderating it. if there would be some extra moderators just for that forum it MIGHT work.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Rictor on May 01, 2003, 05:59:24 am
Kalfireth:

since most people seem to be opposed to a seperate forum, maybe just a special tag that can be attached to threads in the HLP general forum to indicate "politics/religion". That way, only people who want to participate in the debates can join in.

edit: on the topic of moderation. The very idea of a politics discussion can get messy for moderation. I think that minimal moderation should be used, since it is by definition a sensitive topic (eg 1)no personal attack 2)constructed arguements only etc etc)
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 01, 2003, 06:00:05 am
It is a good idea, but not for here, as it is a gaming forum. And also, my opinions would likely get me banned, so we can't have it.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 01, 2003, 10:27:16 am
A tag? What, people can't read titles? If they see one post referring to any sort of world even they'll catch fire? Oh, horror, horror, politics thread.

Politics itself isn't the problem anyway. If someone wants to pick a fight in any subject, they can and will. We've had software threads that ended up much more a brawl than any politics thread.



However, I wouldn't object to a requirement for people to be able to provide some support for things they say, or at least be marginally informed before they express an opinion. Most really regular political posters scanning the headlines would do wonders as far as stopping the whole circular argument thing, since it generally only becomes "circular" when someone reaches the limits of their knowledge and resorts to a glorified form of "No it's not!". To which the only proper answer is "Yes, it is", followed by hypothesizing on their ancestry or sexual deviances.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 01, 2003, 08:55:55 pm
Thought --> Most every forum I've ever seen has a subforum labeled "general - rant and rave all you like"
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 01, 2003, 09:38:37 pm
This one has one titled "Hard Light".
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Slasher on May 02, 2003, 12:35:49 am
Why hard?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on May 02, 2003, 01:00:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
Why hard?
Because these forums are powered by vBulletin.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 02:15:12 am
and soft light is a type of bulb IIRC
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: J.F.K. on May 02, 2003, 05:45:21 am
Hard light and soft light are both types of lighting (for an example, sunlight on a foggy morning or dusk is soft while summer midday sun is hard), but I suspect this place was named after the hard light reference in Red Dwarf. :)

Well, there goes that idea ;)
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Tiara on May 02, 2003, 05:56:04 am
Light that is transmitted directly from a small point source results in coherent rays. This gives the light a hard, crisp, sharply defined appearance. Soft (diffused) light has the opposite effect.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: pyro-manic on May 02, 2003, 10:43:02 am
Quote
Stryke 9:
VOTE GREEN!


Right on! :yes:

Quote
Petrarch of the VBB:   
It is a good idea, but not for here, as it is a gaming forum. And also, my opinions would likely get me banned, so we can't have it.


Same here! :nod:

I don't think that a separate forum for this is justified, or even sensible. It will turn into an argument forum, and we might end up with a membership segregated by their political/religious/moral views. There are other forums out there for this stuff. The occasional topic in Hard Light is enough for us, I think. :)
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 02, 2003, 01:36:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic


Same here! :nod:



Anarchist, eh?
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Shrike on May 02, 2003, 01:45:18 pm
Actually, Anarchists where black if I recall.  Peasants (and now environmentalists) are green.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 02, 2003, 01:50:35 pm
Anarchists wear whatever they want! they don't conform to your oppressive dress-code!:D

But yeah, the Anarchist flags and such tend to be black and red.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 02, 2003, 04:27:52 pm
There's no such thing as an "anarchist flag". The anarchist flag is a gun. The anarchist flag is a tree. The anarchist flag is any piece of cloth you wanna put on a stick.

Never mind that, despite the lack of need for flags (though they're generally cohesive groups), "anarchist" is not a proper group. There are tons of different varieties. It's basically just a label for anyone who still moons cops, sets fire to cars, and throws garbage. In short, a real activist, not one of those picket-circling pantywaists.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 02, 2003, 06:34:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
This one has one titled "Hard Light".


But it doesn't say 'rant and rave all you like', and it never did (even before Shrike got bored). Ranting and raving in Hard Light tends to make the admins cross. What I said was that most every forum I've seen has a subforum speciafically for ranting, the point being that HLP does not. Thus, the ranting ends up allover the place, leading the admins to make this thread.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 02, 2003, 06:48:57 pm
[takes a quick look at the topics up one level]


Are we talking about the same forum here?

Outright spamming isn't allowed in excess, flamewars are (sadly) cracked down on a bit, and when a thread starts to curdle it often gets thrown out. But so? I think some political threads shouldn't be closed as soon as they are, but most do tend to peter out.

If the admins just ignored certain "political" threads, and let them run their natural course, I think that would be plenty. Not even all of them, just certain ones. A whole forum is completely unnecessary, and would probably end up killing political discussion here altogether. Which is a bit of a mixed bag, but hey.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 02, 2003, 09:17:11 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
A whole forum is completely unnecessary, and would probably end up killing political discussion here altogether.

Explain
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Bobboau on May 02, 2003, 10:07:19 pm
the big ass Iraq thread was long and circular but if I wanted to discus something even remotly related to the subject I wouldn't have to make a new topic, it kept it all contained
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 02, 2003, 11:37:57 pm
DG: Because if people have to go to a separate forum to access the one or two politics thread that are made a month, they're just plain not going to. Hell, I wouldn't bother, and I shuttle between the forums like anything. Never mind that half of the politics threads don't start out as political argument threads, they're generally just updates on some news trivia or, in particularly strained times, anything with mildly pro/anti-US undertones, real or imagined. And, of course, those politics thread that just make themselves would stop happening altogether, since with a dedicated politics forum the admins would undoubetdly feel obligated to lay the smack down on political arguments in here more.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: J.F.K. on May 03, 2003, 12:38:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
the big ass Iraq thread was long and circular but if I wanted to discus something even remotly related to the subject I wouldn't have to make a new topic, it kept it all contained


The only issue I had with that was that because it was all in one thread, it was difficult to keep track of the several lines of conversation. It was pretty big.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 03, 2003, 05:50:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
There's no such thing as an "anarchist flag". The anarchist flag is a gun. The anarchist flag is a tree. The anarchist flag is any piece of cloth you wanna put on a stick.


But the Anarcho-Syndicalist flag is red and black, split diagonally.

You are right, there can be no organizations of anarchists, as it is a contradiction, which is why, despite pressure, i will not join the Anarchist federation. I still behave quite violently and in a foul-mouthed manner at any protests that I attend, though.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 03, 2003, 11:00:23 am
Stryke: killing politcal discussion at HLP wouldn't be a bad thing
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 03, 2003, 07:39:49 pm
Petrarch: Well, that's not necessarily true. First off, that's rather a lot like saying proper Marxists shouldn't make any money. There's advocating the system, and living the system, and the latter, while preferable, isn't always possible in our current framework. Second, only the most hardcore anarchists (the really nutty ones, generally, who go out and form militias and ****) are actually against all forms of organization altogether. The vast majority of anarchists I've met, including the so-called "anarcho-syndicalists" (no proper revolutionary would ever use such a lame-ass overly technical name, and indeed damn few do outside of pretentious college students who talk the talk while working on their degree so they can earn six figures in two years), believe more in an automatic unity of man, and that systems and organization are acceptable provided they are not forced upon the people, and are composed exclusively of the people. Though not always in so many words.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Su-tehp on May 03, 2003, 07:54:48 pm
I vote NO. I remember UGC (United Gamers Coalition) tried to experiment with a religion debate forum on our website last year: it was an unmitigated disater. The way politics are nowadays, with liberals and conservatives at each others throats, the "debates" would inevitably devolve into shouting matches. Our religious debate forum lasted less than two weeks. It nearly tore UGC apart with all the arguments and hurt feelings it generated.

Trust me, it will become inevitable that some conservative poster here will mortally insult a liberal by either calling her a "traitor" for disagreeing with Bush's policies or will accuse him of "going to hell" for not following the Bible or somesuch. Once that happens, the flame wars will risk burning HLP to the ground, just like it almost did to UGC.

I have enough problems at home with the Bar exam and law school with arguments and debates; I have no desire to see the same thing here.

I come to HLP to chat with my buddies and my DatDB staff peeps so I can relax.
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: J.F.K. on May 04, 2003, 02:49:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
I vote NO. I remember UGC (United Gamers Coalition) tried to experiment with a religion debate forum on our website last year: it was an unmitigated disater. The way politics are nowadays, with liberals and conservatives at each others throats, the "debates" would inevitably devolve into shouting matches. Our religious debate forum lasted less than two weeks. It nearly tore UGC apart with all the arguments and hurt feelings it generated.

Trust me, it will become inevitable that some conservative poster here will mortally insult a liberal by either calling her a "traitor" for disagreeing with Bush's policies or will accuse him of "going to hell" for not following the Bible or somesuch. Once that happens, the flame wars will risk burning HLP to the ground, just like it almost did to UGC.

I have enough problems at home with the Bar exam and law school with arguments and debates; I have no desire to see the same thing here.

I come to HLP to chat with my buddies and my DatDB staff peeps so I can relax.


I didn't even think of that... that's the benefit of experience, I guess. :yes:
Title: Religion/Politics subforum or no?
Post by: Knight Templar on May 04, 2003, 02:53:30 am
Yeah, that's another thing to point out.

It's really easy to hold a grudge over someone that you don't even personally know over an arguement or insults in a debate forum, and it would eventually spill over into other forums/projects/relationships.