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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Goober5000 on May 02, 2003, 07:14:43 pm

Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 02, 2003, 07:14:43 pm: No words. Just watch.

http://home.attbi.com/~bernhard36/honda-ad.html
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Kamikaze on May 02, 2003, 07:42:26 pm: :D :yes:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: pyro-manic on May 02, 2003, 08:24:32 pm: This ad rocks! I've only seen the complete thing once - they're only showing edited bits of it now.

If you want funny ads, watch "Tarrant on TV" on ITV1. Lots of strange people hurting themselves or each other in funny ways.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 08:43:46 pm: Some parts of that look really fake but it is neat nonetheless. :D :yes:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 08:47:16 pm: Another example of Rube Goldberg showing the transfer of kinetic energy...

(For the record I am 15, my I.Q. is over 120...)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 09:06:59 pm: Yeah I posted that at warpstorm a bit ago; pretty cool stuff. I wanna see the movie it's based off of. ;7
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 02, 2003, 09:14:12 pm: Is this the thing with all the millions of car parts?
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 02, 2003, 09:28:20 pm: Yep.

They claim it was shot in one continuous take - no editing, no computer fudging whatsoever.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 09:31:00 pm: Rube Goldberg devices take years to perfect... This has to be fabricated.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 09:32:57 pm: umm no. it's real. all of it.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 09:44:58 pm: There is also another way to prove it is fake...

A Rube Goldberg device by SCIENTIFIC THEORY, cannot excede or contain more than 20 kinetic energy transfers. There is one exception... Dominoes. A Rube Goldberg device is defined by 5 or more different energy transfers but cannot excede 20. A Rube Goldberg device also may incorporate different kinds of energy transfer.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 09:46:20 pm: dude, what are you talking about? take some time to watch the movie and it's plenty real.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 09:48:52 pm: Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
There is also another way to prove it is fake...

A Rube Goldberg device by SCIENTIFIC THEORY, cannot excede or contain more than 20 kinetic energy transfers. There is one exception... Dominoes. A Rube Goldberg device is defined by 5 or more different energy transfers but cannot excede 20. A Rube Goldberg device also may incorporate different kinds of energy transfer.

may I be allowed to add that there is no mention of it being a rube goldberg device.

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specifically FROM their page
Yes, I know who Rube Goldberg is and yes, I know his influences on the above mentioned filmakers. Thank you. :)

influences on above mentioned filmakers. yes. INFLUENCES. They are laying no claim to some bizzare definition for a rube goldberg device that you remembered from a textbook
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 02, 2003, 09:49:13 pm: Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
There is also another way to prove it is fake...

A Rube Goldberg device by SCIENTIFIC THEORY, cannot excede or contain more than 20 kinetic energy transfers. There is one exception... Dominoes. A Rube Goldberg device is defined by 5 or more different energy transfers but cannot excede 20. A Rube Goldberg device also may incorporate different kinds of energy transfer.

Reference? :rolleyes:

Certainly it took a lot of work (five months of testing followed by a month of setup and over six hundred takes), but it's real. And it's not all kinetic anyway - if you look closely, a lot of it is electrical.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 10:18:16 pm: First of all, count how many energy transfers are in the ad.

Second. Consult this link Rube Goldbeg Device as defined by Science Olympiad. (http://www.scioly.org/eventpages/missioncdiv.html)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 10:21:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
First of all, count how many energy transfers are in the ad.

Second. Consult this link Rube Goldbeg Device as defined by Science Olympiad. (http://www.scioly.org/eventpages/missioncdiv.html)

again, they lay no claim to it being a rube goldberg device. For a guy with a supposed 120 IQ, you sure have a lot of trouble with basic comprehension :doubt:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 02, 2003, 10:28:58 pm: You can theorize all you want, but if it's contradicted by direct evidence, you'll have to revise your theory.

This brings to mind the quote from Abraham Lincoln - "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 10:34:10 pm: I know what I am talking about. Honda had the intent of wowing potential lessees or buyers with a "Mouse Trap" like device. I'm just stating the facts.

Let's end it at this before an all out flame war develops.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 10:39:19 pm: Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
I know what I am talking about. Honda had the intent of wowing potential lessees or buyers with a "Mouse Trap" like device. I'm just stating the facts.

:wtf:

Yes, that was their intent. The same intent of every car comercial ever created. To sell a product. This one happened to be exceptionally creative and dindn't involve rock music and/or mud, and as such deserved special mention by being posted on the internet. I pose a question to you, the question is "We should care because..?"
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 10:41:34 pm: stating facts that don't apply. This isn't a Rube Goldberg dealie. Get over it. It's all one run through, and it's not edited.

and there won't be a flame war, you're the only oe that doesn't seem to get it.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 10:45:07 pm: In the part near the beginning with the wheels bumping into each other on a slightly vertical slope, the wheels actually accelerate, so they must have some sort of internal motors. The one thing that really looks fake is the football-shaped drum rolling for that long with such low speed, unless it has a motor as well.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Blue Lion on May 02, 2003, 10:47:20 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
The one thing that really looks fake is the football-shaped drum rolling for that long with such low speed, unless it has a motor as well.

You mean the muffler?
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 10:47:27 pm: No, weiths. If they are perfectly weighted, then they get tapped, fall, and the weight carriers em' just enough up the slope to tap the next one.

The muffler is weighted too.

and .. motors? :wtf:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 10:50:56 pm: Oh, that's what it is. :D If you look carefully, it also slightly accelerates between cycles (i.e. one 360 spin is faster than the one before it), which weights alone could not do.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Starks on May 02, 2003, 10:51:24 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
stating facts that don't apply. This isn't a Rube Goldberg dealie. Get over it. It's all one run through, and it's not edited.

and there won't be a flame war, you're the only oe that doesn't seem to get it.

Hey, I asked to end this argument. I added my input based on science and my opinion about it being fake. I am entitled to that. I am trying to be the bigger man about this...

In answer to Anal's question, "We should care because..." I never asked anyone to care.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 10:51:59 pm: I think it may well be real, but it is not all that it appears to be due to the hidden motors and stuff. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Blue Lion on May 02, 2003, 10:53:11 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
I think it may well be real, but it is not all that it appears to be due to the hidden motors and stuff. :D

How do you hide a motor in a tire? Or a muffler
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 10:53:18 pm: it accelerates as the weight goes from the top to the bottom. Ever slow slightly, but its enough to get it there.

and dude, cp, motors?

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originally posted by LLivingLarge

Hey, I asked to end this argument. I added my input based on science and my opinion about it being fake. I am entitled to that. I am trying to be the bigger man about this...

The only reason it's been drawn out is because you're calling it something it's not, which doesn't really make any sense.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 10:56:07 pm: Quote
it accelerates as the weight goes from the top to the bottom. Ever slow slightly, but its enough to get it there.

yeah, but the weight would have to go back the other way on the next spin, so the muffler cannot reach the old speed again just with that. The weights would work on the tires since they don't turn the whole way but not the muffler thing.

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How do you hide a motor in a tire? Or a muffler

eh, just drop it inside and have it always pointing in a certain direction relative to the ground with a weight or something...
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 10:57:28 pm: Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
In answer to Anal's question, "We should care because..." I never asked anyone to care.

Then why did you post it?
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:02:06 pm: If you watch, the weight does make it go back a little after it accelerates it. It probably sticks out of the tire ever so slightly, so when the middle tire hits the next one, it stops, but when the next tire moves, the weight has room to move, so it goes back down untill it gets to the point on the tire that meets the board.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 11:04:10 pm: yeah, I can see how the tires might use the weight system; it's the muffler that uses something else.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:05:50 pm: The muffler? Why? It wouldn't even need anything. It could make its way to the antennae without anyhelp just on it's shape and starting position alone.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 11:07:45 pm: It travels a huge distance considering the speed that it is going at and more importantly, accelerates between cycles, which means it must use something for power aside from its initial push. (and since it does more than one full rotation, weights alone could not account for it)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:10:50 pm: Ever try rolling a muffler, or similar object? It's not that far, and it slows down just like it should. There's nothing behind it or under it, and it's already on a slope. At most it could be weighted, but I honestly doubt it'd need it.

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(and since it does more than one full rotation, weights alone could not account for it)

why not? Even if you're right, then where would the missing link be? The only tihng I can think of is that the fan is still going a little bit, but that wouldn't do much.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 11:11:23 pm: EDIT: KT, you bastard...you post faster than me :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:13:12 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Analazon
EDIT: KT, you bastard...you post faster than me :p

DSL 0wnz0rz :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 11:13:36 pm: No, what I am saying is that it accelerates between cycles (not within cycles), which is impossible if it was rolling independently regardless of its shape.

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why not? Even if you're right, then where would the missing link be? The only tihng I can think of is that the fan is still going a little bit, but that wouldn't do much.

Because the weights would then need to return to their original position (or, if they already did during the first rotation, they would repeat the process), so the second thermo law would imply that it could not attain the speed used for the previous rotation unless it had an internal power source that does not need to be reset on every rotation; only thing I can think of for that is a motor, since I have done a similar thing with lego anyway. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 11:15:23 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
No, what I am saying is that it accelerates between cycles (not within cycles), which is impossible if it was rolling independently regardless of its shape.

The shape is very important...after the top stops being pulled by gravity, it is helped along by gravity when the gravity pulls the heavy end that is up in the air down.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:16:45 pm: Quote
No, what I am saying is that it accelerates between cycles (not within cycles), which is impossible if it was rolling independently regardless of its shape.

uh.. I don't think so. If it does, it seems negligible to me. At least nothing the weight system couldn't do.. still though, where would the extra help come from if it isn't natural? :p

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Because the weights would then need to return to their original position (or, if they already did during the first rotation, they would repeat the process), so the second thermo law would imply that it could not attain the speed used for the previous rotation unless it had an internal power source that does not need to be reset on every rotation; only thing I can think of for that is a motor, since I have done a similar thing with lego anyway. :D

Ok, seriously dude, there isn't a way you could get a miniature motor in there that would be able to make it go marginally faster and then stop when it gets to the next thing. It would be moronic anyways as they could just move the entire contraption closer together and not have to motorize anything.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 11:19:06 pm: Quote
The shape is very important...after the top stops being pulled by gravity, it is helped along by gravity when the gravity pulls the heavy end that is up in the air down.

No, like I said, I'm not talking about the acceleration within a single rotation, but rather that between consecutive rotations. If it was going with the initial slope energy alone, each rotation would take longer than the ones before it, which is not the case if you look really carefully.

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uh.. I don't think so. If it does, it seems negligible to me. At least nothing the weight system couldn't do.. still though, where would the extra help come from if it isn't natural?

as I said, a motor with a stationary weight should do the trick nicely. :D

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Ok, seriously dude, there isn't a way you could get a miniature motor in there that would be able to make it go marginally faster and then stop when it gets to the next thing. It would be moronic anyways as they could just move the entire contraption closer together and not have to motorize anything.

um, as I said, I have done it before; it's pretty easy. :p As for the stopping, that could just be controlled remotely.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:20:44 pm: See above post:

It would be retarded to go to such an extent just to make it get an extra inch or two closer when they could just shorten the length.

Another thing about the commerical, it's emphasized by using parts entirely from a car, and from my knowledge, a motor with a weight on it small enough to fit inside the muffler would have no purpose in a car.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Anaz on May 02, 2003, 11:20:47 pm: or they put the whole thing on a slight angle and tilted the camera :p

(just an idea...)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 02, 2003, 11:24:22 pm: Quote
It would be retarded to go to such an extent just to make it get an extra inch or two closer when they could just shorten the length.

It actually goes on forever, or well, until the batteries run out. :p

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Another thing about the commerical, it's emphasized by using parts entirely from a car, and from my knowledge, a motor with a weight on it small enough to fit inside the muffler would have no purpose in a car.

Why not just modify that particular muffler to have it? nobody will see it anyway... :p

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or they put the whole thing on a slight angle and tilted the camera

That is the other possibility I had in mind; it would work well too, especially if the entire building in which the thing is being operated is built on a slope so nobody will notice any problems with the walls or anything. :D

Anyway, I'm going to go to sleep now; need to get up for tests tomorrow morning... :shaking:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 02, 2003, 11:31:28 pm: Quote
It actually goes on forever, or well, until the batteries run out.

Ok, so you're saying you fit an entire miniature engine inside an oversized muffler, complete wth a battery, balance it perfectly, all just to make it look like its real when they could make it real in the first place?

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Why not just modify that particular muffler to have it? nobody will see it anyway... :p

true, but people like you would try to, and that would defeat the cleverness of the add.

Besides, it's already on an incline, it has the main body, and the pipe sticking out, it gets tapped and blwon at, and it also has a nice oblong shape that could carry it the distance via gravity. I think it works out just fine without any mods.

and tests on a Saturday? You seriously need to go over your life man :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 03, 2003, 12:23:27 am: The reason it slows down and speeds up on each cycle is because of its shape. Roll a hard-boiled egg and it'll behave the same way - but a muffler rolls farther because it has more mass and hence more inertia.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Blue Lion on May 03, 2003, 12:35:25 am: Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar

and tests on a Saturday? You seriously need to go over your life man :p

Man this is CP were talking about, the boy who hasn't left his house since 1998
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Nico on May 03, 2003, 04:50:36 am: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670

That is the other possibility I had in mind; it would work well too, especially if the entire building in which the thing is being operated is built on a slope so nobody will notice any problems with the walls or anything. :D

no, all the things that are on tigh balance would fall, and all the actions that use fluids would be screwed.
very nice ad btw, I love the idea ( of the thing being made only with parts of the Accord :) )
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 05:46:10 am: Quote
Ok, so you're saying you fit an entire miniature engine inside an oversized muffler, complete wth a battery, balance it perfectly, all just to make it look like its real when they could make it real in the first place?

Sure, since they could then increase the distance by as much as needed, which would increase its apparent ingenuity. Besides, it is pretty easy to get the balance right and so on; as long as you make the weight heavy enough to offset the motor acceleration, you should be fine. heck, if you have the parts, I can tell you how to make such a motor assembly for a circular wheel out of lego pieces. :D

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true, but people like you would try to, and that would defeat the cleverness of the add.

Well it's just an ad, not some complex engineering prototype. I doubt they would go to great lengths to make it unrecognizable as long as most people don't see it. :p :D

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Besides, it's already on an incline, it has the main body, and the pipe sticking out, it gets tapped and blwon at, and it also has a nice oblong shape that could carry it the distance via gravity. I think it works out just fine without any mods.

that wouldn't account for speed ups between rotations, though. The shape would actually work against it; a cylinder (round wheel) would work better when rolling like that and of course, a perfect sphere would give the optimal combination.

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and tests on a Saturday? You seriously need to go over your life man

didn't have a choice; the SAT IIs are always on Saturdays for some reason. Then again, I don't really care too much. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Tiara on May 03, 2003, 05:57:02 am: (http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s12/smilies-1904.png)

j/k :nervous:

But how can you people get into a scientific debate over an ad? :p I mean, you guys just take stuff like this too serious.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 03, 2003, 06:04:21 am: oh, it that.

I've seen that myriad times on TV, and it is incredible. I don't care about your highly scientific discussions of it, it just looks cool!

It's all very Heath Robinson really.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Tiara on May 03, 2003, 06:22:33 am: Quote
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB

I've seen that myriad times on TV, and it is incredible. I don't care about your highly scientific discussions of it, it just looks cool!

:nod::yes:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 11:56:23 am: Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
(http://www.smiliegenerator.de/s12/smilies-1904.png)

j/k :nervous:

But how can you people get into a scientific debate over an ad? :p I mean, you guys just take stuff like this too serious.

I just find it funny that CP thinks there's some uber mysterious alien lego piecies at work making a muffler roll when all it is is simple shape.. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 03, 2003, 12:06:36 pm: I already said - roll a hard-boiled egg; you'll see the same thing. :)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:14:26 pm: Quote
But how can you people get into a scientific debate over an ad? I mean, you guys just take stuff like this too serious.

because I like arguing! ;7

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I just find it funny that CP thinks there's some uber mysterious alien lego piecies at work making a muffler roll when all it is is simple shape..

uh, you haven't told me why it accelerates in the manner I stated... :p

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I already said - roll a hard-boiled egg; you'll see the same thing.

acceleration between multiple rotations? :wtf: I think that is only possible in some alternate universe without certain physics laws. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:17:11 pm: Quote
uh, you haven't told me why it accelerates in the manner I stated...:p

Sure I have. Remember I told you the whole about it's shape , it starts on an incline, has the initial tiny push of the wire and the fan, along with its own odd shape and weight
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:19:29 pm: so that allows it to disobey that second thermo law and accelerate between cycles? :wtf: :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:25:32 pm: I'm still trying to figure out where you think it actually accelerates... looks more like it comes to a peak speed and dies down to me :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:28:16 pm: between rotations. it would have to accelerate, since at one point it completes one rotation faster than the one before it. :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:32:00 pm: ok yea, so it accelerates from all the initial force and then it decelerates as the force dies down (for lack of a better term.. I just woke up :p)

I'm obviously not a physicist, but It makes sense. Most things do that.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:35:17 pm: not that part, of course it accelerates there; I'm talking about later on when it is further away from the fan/slope thing.

Actually, is this muffler thing made of foam or something (i.e. really lightweight)? the fan might work at even that range if this is the case...
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:40:07 pm: That was wierd.. it deleted CP's post.. I wonder if the board is trying to tell him he's wrong :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:42:24 pm: okay that was weird, the thread was messed up for a while and could not be accessed, and then my post got deleted... :wtf:

ah well I still have it open in another window, I'll just copy/paste it in here: :D

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ok yea, so it accelerates from all the initial force and then it decelerates as the force dies down (for lack of a better term.. I just woke up )

I'm obviously not a physicist, but It makes sense. Most things do that.

not that part, of course it accelerates there; I meant later on, when it is further away from the fan/slope thing.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:42:56 pm: well yea it could still accelerate a little though right? because it still had all that force behind it and it hadn't been spent yet. It still gets to it's peak and then decelerates like it naturally would.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Blue Lion on May 03, 2003, 12:43:58 pm: I'm still trying to figure out why they would mess with the muffler at all. Why would they need to spend the time and extra effort adding in a motor?
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:45:25 pm: exactly. It doesn't need to be messed with. And even if it did, it would have been much more effecient and less tiem consuming to just move the thing 6 inches closer to the muffler.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:45:55 pm: Quote
well yea it could still accelerate a little though right? because it still had all that force behind it and it hadn't been spent yet. It still gets to it's peak and then decelerates like it naturally would.

actually it starts decelerating, then goes slower and slower for a couple of rotations and then speeds up (does a rotation very slightly faster than those before it), after which it starts slowing down once again. :wtf: :D

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I'm still trying to figure out why they would mess with the muffler at all. Why would they need to spend the time and extra effort adding in a motor?

uh, maybe because it takes five minutes to do that and works well...

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exactly. It doesn't need to be messed with. And if it did, it would have been much more effecient and less tiem consuming to just move the thing 6 inches closer to the muffler.

but that would decrease its cleverness, right? :D (after all, they could just do a different ad idea that didn't require so much work; remember that it is an ad, not a science experiment, so there are probably all kinds of tricks involved to make it easier to do for them)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:49:50 pm: no, adding any small motors inside the muffler (which would already be detracting from the theme of having only carparts in the commercial) wouldn't make anything any more clever, just weird.

And after seing the add 10 more times, it doesn't accelerate when its 3/4 down the stretch. :wtf: watch it. It's slowing down....

EDIT: like i said, it wouldn't make it easier, just needlessly complicated. Making it easier would be putting the rest of the contraption closer to the muffler, or moving th emuffler closer to the contraption.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 12:52:57 pm: nobody would notice the motor; it would just allow it to go further, so it would indeed increase the cleverness. :D anyway, as I said, this is not some science experiment that has to be done under strict guidelines; it is an ad, so they aren't going to care what is really used as long as it looks like only carparts are used.

look carefully on the fifth rotation (I think that was it) and you will see a very small increase in the speed.

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EDIT: like i said, it wouldn't make it easier, just needlessly complicated. Making it easier would be putting the rest of the contraption closer to the muffler, or moving th emuffler closer to the contraption.

but that would decrease the cleverness. if it only did one rotation and then immediately hit the other end, that wouldn't look so clever, right? :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 12:57:29 pm: Dude it doesn't accelerate on the fith rotation, it finishes the roation. It doesn't accelerate. You need to go roll some mufflers or something dude... finishing the roll isn't accelerating.

And hiding a miniature motor that has no place inside the car in a muffler to give it one supposed extra rotation doesn't sound like clever engineering to me. :wtf:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 01:00:02 pm: Quote
Dude it doesn't accelerate on the fith rotation, it finishes the roation. It doesn't accelerate. You need to go roll some mufflers or something dude... finishing the roll isn't accelerating.

no I mean the time taken to complete the fifth is less than the fourth, so there would have to be acceleration.

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And hiding a miniature motor that has no place inside the car in a muffler to give it one supposed extra rotation doesn't sound like clever engineering to me.

but I already told you, you could make it go five miles if needed, and so little work is required that there is no reason why they wouldn't do that, especially since the further it goes, the more clever it looks, even if it just a short distance more than one would expect it to. remember, further = cleverer = better. :D
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 01:02:55 pm: whatever you wanna think dude...

This is really stupid to me though, I mean, it made more sense when parts that actually looked like they were fake (the tires) were being challenged..

my dishwasher just went off... shower time ;7
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 01:04:57 pm: Quote
This is really stupid to me though, I mean, it made more sense when parts that actually looked like they were fake (the tires) were being challenged..

the tires looked like F1 wheels or something like that to me...

well I always like an argument, even if it is fairly pointless. :D

Quote
my dishwasher just went off... shower time ;7

eh?
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 01:06:47 pm: Quote
eh?

Spoiler:
I can't be in the shwoer and have the dishwasher going at the same time. Dishwasher = off = Me in Shower. Me in shower signalfies end of my arguement

:) :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Blue Lion on May 03, 2003, 01:22:27 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
nobody would notice the motor; it would just allow it to go further, so it would indeed increase the cleverness. :D anyway, as I said, this is not some science experiment that has to be done under strict guidelines; it is an ad, so they aren't going to care what is really used as long as it looks like only carparts are used.

Dude how far did it roll? A couple of feet? How far did this "motor" add on to it? A rotation?

Do you honestly think people watched that whole damn thing and said

"Holy ****, did you see how many times that muffler rotated! That's ****ing awesome!!!"

If it had rolled for like a minute, yea maybe we'd be talking then. But it made what 5, 6 spins? That's a drop of water into a bathtub of cleverness.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: CP5670 on May 03, 2003, 01:51:03 pm: doesn't matter in this case; my original point that it cannot do that alone still stands, regardless of why they did it so. :p but I was certainly amazed at that extra rotation and the rate at which its speed was changing.

wait, what is that this muffler thing made of and approximately how heavy is it? If it is something like packing foam with very little weight, that might explain it...

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I can't be in the shwoer and have the dishwasher going at the same time. Dishwasher = off = Me in Shower. Me in shower signalfies end of my arguement

oh okay, some plumbing issue? I know that whenever one of the toilets here is flushed while a shower is in use, the shower water becomes either really hot or really cold (way more than it should be) for about ten seconds; no idea why... :p
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: The Claw on May 03, 2003, 02:21:05 pm: Quote
Originally posted by CP5670

oh okay, some plumbing issue? I know that whenever one of the toilets here is flushed while a shower is in use, the shower water becomes either really hot or really cold (way more than it should be) for about ten seconds; no idea why... :p

Could it be something to do with what you've eaten?
:wtf: #runs#
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 03, 2003, 02:30:32 pm: uh.. you can't generally use a dishwasher and hot shower at the same time. The water heater ain't too good at heating both.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: J.F.K. on May 04, 2003, 01:29:56 am: I just checked out the movie... wow. Never seen anything like it. Bit of a waste trying to explain all the principles to a simpleton like me, though. ;)

As for the plumbing, when you flush the toilet, I always thought that the toilet grabs a whole bunch of cold water from the system (quite a lot if you go full flush), and less is able to be directed to the shower system. Thus the proportion of hot water to cold in the shower is temporarily thrown off balance, ie. it gets substantially hotter (whose toilets draw hot water? :p), until the water deficit is recovered and the system returns to normal. :)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 04, 2003, 07:55:38 am: CP, KT?

No. Body. Cares.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Knight Templar on May 04, 2003, 11:24:51 am: Quote
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
CP, KT?

No. Body. Cares.

Then. Don't. Read. It.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: pyro-manic on May 04, 2003, 11:47:43 am: Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
I just checked out the movie... wow. Never seen anything like it. Bit of a waste trying to explain all the principles to a simpleton like me, though. ;)

As for the plumbing, when you flush the toilet, I always thought that the toilet grabs a whole bunch of cold water from the system (quite a lot if you go full flush), and less is able to be directed to the shower system. Thus the proportion of hot water to cold in the shower is temporarily thrown off balance, ie. it gets substantially hotter (whose toilets draw hot water? :p), until the water deficit is recovered and the system returns to normal. :)

Nope. The water in the cistern gets dumped into the pan. The cistern then fills up slowly, which is why you can't flush twice in a row. I wouldn't have thought it would have any major effects on the system - a slight rise in temperature in the shower would be offest by a reduced flow of water.

Just a thought: why the hell are we talking about flushing toilets? Slightly strange.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Terorist on May 04, 2003, 12:07:44 pm: Whoa, you people actually managed to create an argument over this ad? (Ok, it only took those two boneheads claiming otherwise, but still...)

The ad is 100% real. Someone hinted that they said there's one moment of cgi, just to glue together two separate shots. This was because the room wasn't long enough for the complete system and just one continuous shot... All the tricks seen here work - and that ad isn't nearly as unbelievable as the movie that inspired it. :nod:

The Way Things Go (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0094300) (Der Lauf der Dinge), by Peter Fischli and David Weiss from 1987, is a 30 minute movie of physics and chemistry in action... if you can see it somehow, somewhere, do it! It'll silence anyone claiming such contraptions are "impossible" or "fake". It rocks.
(DVD available at Amazon, at least - and, um, other sources exist too. :nervous: )
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: tEAbAG on May 04, 2003, 12:48:01 pm: Community field trip!! We all go out, get some Hondas, and build this thing. Then all arguements will be settled and we'll all have something impressive to put on our resumes!;7
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: pyro-manic on May 04, 2003, 12:51:58 pm: :lol: :yes:
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Terorist on May 04, 2003, 01:16:26 pm: Better yet, let's make a full hour running movie like TWTG - that'd be something! Simply re-doing someone else's thing wouldn't be as great. ;)
Besides, it'll be cheaper than a couple of Hondas, TWTG was made with ordinary junk, basically. Plus some interesting chemicals. Plus lots and lots and lots of patience and work...
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: tEAbAG on May 04, 2003, 01:23:12 pm: Two words: perpetual motion machine!

:nod:

wait, thats three.

It can't be that hard.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: J.F.K. on May 05, 2003, 03:44:04 am: Quote
Originally posted by pyro-manic

Nope. The water in the cistern gets dumped into the pan. The cistern then fills up slowly, which is why you can't flush twice in a row. I wouldn't have thought it would have any major effects on the system - a slight rise in temperature in the shower would be offest by a reduced flow of water.

Just a thought: why the hell are we talking about flushing toilets? Slightly strange.

You are correct. Let us never speak of this again. ;)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 05, 2003, 03:07:31 pm: I agree with CP...the tires looked odd to me even before I read his posts. Note the second to last tire on the ramp...it hits the last one, bounces backward, then starts to roll up the ramp. The first tire on the ramp appears to accelerate after its initial push.

As for the muffler, it does look a little like it could have some outside force acting on it...and it wasn't blown by the fan, because the fan was facing the other way. The only force the fan exerts on it is indirectly, through whatever's on the wire (The muffler moves after the thing hits it). The last roll does seem a bit iffy to me...hmm...

The spinning windshield wiper also bothers me, since it seems to spin much faster than it should.

And the speakers bobbing also bothers me...

The entire ad seems too smooth to me as well...I'd like to see a "Making of" video to prove this one was real.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Goober5000 on May 05, 2003, 03:15:59 pm: Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I agree with CP...the tires looked odd to me even before I read his posts. Note the second to last tire on the ramp...it hits the last one, bounces backward, then starts to roll up the ramp. The first tire on the ramp appears to accelerate after its initial push.

They're weighted at the top - the weights make them roll upward.

Quote
As for the muffler, it does look a little like it could have some outside force acting on it...and it wasn't blown by the fan, because the fan was facing the other way. The only force the fan exerts on it is indirectly, through whatever's on the wire (The muffler moves after the thing hits it). The last roll does seem a bit iffy to me...hmm...

Only because it's oblong. I see no problem with it.

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The spinning windshield wiper also bothers me, since it seems to spin much faster than it should.

It was flicked by the headrest - same as you would flick a frisbee with your wrist.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: WMCoolmon on May 05, 2003, 03:24:11 pm: The headrest moves much slower than the wiper, though. Even though it has more mass, it seems to me like the wiper travels twice as far as it should. :confused:

From my last message (which I took awhile to edit, hehe)
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And the speakers bobbing also bothers me...

The entire ad seems too smooth to me as well...I'd like to see a "Making of" video to prove this one was real.
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: Terorist on May 06, 2003, 08:07:24 am: Come on people! It's real, what could possibly be the point in making a fake system? In Der Lauf der Dinge the tires even fight over small steps while climbing upwards... and that piece of brilliancy isn't "smooth" like cgi with it's looks - you couldn't possibly think it's fake. :)
(Oh, wait, there's always someone who "can"... nevermind.)
Title: Engineering at its finest
Post by: wEvil on May 06, 2003, 09:06:02 am: I wonder how much LESS that would have cost them if it had been cg.....