Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Knight Templar on May 11, 2003, 02:09:18 am

Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 11, 2003, 02:09:18 am
Ok, I was thinking today about fighter modelling. One thing that struck me, is that if you make an uber cool player flyable fighter, besides the techroom, Shield ani, and jump sequnce, unless you fly 3rd person, you never even get to see your ship. And flying 3rd person as it is rather sucks without even cross hairs, or hud or messages or anything.

So, what I propose is a sort of set up like Freelancer has, where you can have 3rd person, but still have all of the relavant hud options, and see a good portion of battle still.

Takers?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 11, 2003, 02:23:13 am
Bleah.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Kamikaze on May 11, 2003, 03:00:12 am
sounds like a good idea, make sure the cameras angled so that you can actually see where the crosshairs pointing. (i.e. make the camera just slightly above the ship)
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 11, 2003, 03:50:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Bleah.


:doubt:

Wouldn't it be cool to actually get chance to have a look ath that perseus you're flying? or the 1337 pegasus or whatever cool model you are flying? There doesn't seem to be a lot of incentive to make a ship look nice if you don't even get to see it.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 11, 2003, 04:00:00 am
But if you had all the gauges everywhere, you'd hardly see your ship!
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 11, 2003, 04:08:10 am
make em' smaller/get rid of some/rearange them?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 11, 2003, 04:15:43 am
hmm. 'spose you could manage with just the crosshair and targeting box, and maybe the power management gauges.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: KARMA on May 11, 2003, 07:36:11 am
you will probably need trails like in the nebula to maintain orientation+ it isn't so easy to aim from 3dperson due to the view angle, even if you have the reticle
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Steel on May 11, 2003, 11:12:44 am
my opinion...  3rd person is not at all realistic.  good to see if you are flying in formation, to look at your pretty ship, etc. but for combat - i would never use it.  plus there are realism purists who will say people are cheating when using 3rd person views (happens all the time in IL2) because they get extra views that one does not normally get from in the cockpit.  BUT, we do have radar, so...  it just does not have the same feel as a combat simulator if this stuff gets thrown in.  at least make it optional.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: NecroBob on May 11, 2003, 03:36:06 pm
3rd person with a transparent model (so you could see what you were doing) would be alright, I suppose, but I would just prefer to see the new ship models as I take them out with two Harpoons :nod:

Bob
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 11, 2003, 03:42:40 pm
KT: That's what the ramming school of combat is for. True, it's not your own ship, but who wants to see that when they can get up close and personal to a Mara?:D

Don't you eventually find that kinda distracting, though? Seems like it would annoy the holy living **** out of me soon as the novelty wore off...
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 11, 2003, 04:11:17 pm
no actually, I'd like to see my pretty ship, wether i'm in battle not. I don't really care, but I'd like to be able to see my ship at some angle while having all the essential gauges I need to fly.


And if you don't like it or are a 'realist' then just press ' - ' or whatever buttonI just want to be able to see the cool ships :D
Freespace would be a lot better visually IMO if we had something like this.

pwetty pwease?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 11, 2003, 06:50:38 pm
Maybe have it set up like in I-War 2?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Corsair114 on May 11, 2003, 09:54:07 pm
I like this idea. I'm more comfortable flying out side my ship in thrid person view since it gives me a better sense of the space around me. If the view were zoomed out a bit then the gauges shouldn't be problematic.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Galemp on May 11, 2003, 11:35:41 pm
This should be very simple; I mean, just activate all the HUD gagues in 3rd person view. How hard can it be?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Solatar on May 12, 2003, 05:21:06 am
Not very.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: diamondgeezer on May 12, 2003, 11:10:23 am
Forget it. I asked for this months ago. The coders refused to touch it with a barge pole.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 13, 2003, 01:53:00 am
Nope. Not gonna forget. I want to see my ships. :p
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: TrashMan on May 13, 2003, 03:50:35 am
You might have to bump this thread for that....alot....
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 13, 2003, 10:00:33 am
you sound skeptical... you do know who I am, right? :p :D
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: TrashMan on May 14, 2003, 01:55:29 am
No...I'm not sceptical...I like the idea...a lot...
But the SCP staff tends to be busy...
And there are lots of guages that you would need....

Anyway.....BUMP!:D
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Ulala on May 14, 2003, 01:18:36 pm
Could be cool. I think giving it a try, if it's not too much trouble, is reasonable.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on May 14, 2003, 01:53:40 pm
i've been looking at this, updates to come
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 14, 2003, 05:04:10 pm
we love you :D
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on May 14, 2003, 05:38:28 pm
this ok?
i don't know what to do with the radar though

(http://www.swooh.com/peon/phreak/3rd_person.jpg)
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: LAW ENFORCER on May 14, 2003, 06:12:41 pm
too close, too close!


or was it hot?

anyway, radar ummm... all the conors are filled youd have to squish it in somewhere
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Zaxzon on May 14, 2003, 06:19:21 pm
I like it. With the radar would it be possiable to size it down and move it to the upper right hand corner maybe?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 14, 2003, 06:22:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
too close, too close!



It looks great, but is it possible to get the ship a little farther out?

I also think the radar could go in the corner.  But its ok where it is now if you had the ship farther.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 14, 2003, 07:27:19 pm
A little farther out and down a smidge and it would be perfect :yes: :D
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Corsair114 on May 14, 2003, 07:44:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
A little farther out and down a smidge and it would be perfect :yes: :D


Ditto. No need to move the radar in that case.:)
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Anaz on May 14, 2003, 08:18:50 pm
it should dynamically scale it based on the tech room centerpoint & the tech room scaling factors. Tech room itself is a bit far out, so mebby tech zoom factor /2
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: SadisticSid on May 15, 2003, 07:01:07 am
Brilliant! This'll be great when it's done.

Sid.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Ulala on May 15, 2003, 12:26:19 pm
:nod:
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on May 15, 2003, 03:09:20 pm
lets try this again

(http://www.swooh.com/peon/phreak/3rd_person2.jpg)
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: J3Vr6 on May 15, 2003, 03:58:09 pm
When turning, does the screen delay before matching the ship, ie. you see the side of the ship a bit when you turn?

It looks great, Phreak.  Can the ship be pushed out and lower a little more and seen down from an angle (45 degrees up from the ships center line)?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 15, 2003, 06:54:43 pm
I think that would interfere with aiming straight.
As a note, I think at least a reduced target box should be present. Otherwise, it's a bit difficult to do things like sub-target. Just a small box with name, subsystem name, and distance should be sufficient.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 15, 2003, 08:08:50 pm
How would it hurt aiming strait? the reticule is still there...

and the planet in the background looks nice btw :yes:
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Nico on May 16, 2003, 01:40:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
How would it hurt aiming strait? the reticule is still there...

and the planet in the background looks nice btw :yes:


think about it, if you see your ship bank etc, the nose won't point toward the target reticle anymore. unless by some miracle they can make the reticle move accordingly, well, the ship has to remain still on your screen.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 16, 2003, 02:29:21 am
oh, if you see your ship bank, then yea. We could always give it the freelancer style targeting style. Hell, we might as well make it the freelancer view and then implement your mouse flying.  

But if thats too much work (It seems really cool, but if it is...) then just don't make it visibly bank.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Corsair114 on May 16, 2003, 02:48:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
oh, if you see your ship bank, then yea. We could always give it the freelancer style targeting style. Hell, we might as well make it the freelancer view and then implement your mouse flying.  

But if thats too much work (It seems really cool, but if it is...) then just don't make it visibly bank.


No! No mouse flying! Unless I can still use the normal joystick and keyboard layout for FreeSpace 2.

Yeah, that's lookin' real good. Can't wait to give it a try.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Nico on May 16, 2003, 03:34:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair114


No! No mouse flying! Unless I can still use the normal joystick and keyboard layout for FreeSpace 2.


heh, why couldn't you still use them? :wtf:
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 16, 2003, 05:21:04 am
Yeah.

You can already use the mouse, KB and Joystick at the same time, so why should it be any different?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on May 16, 2003, 11:26:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair114


No! No mouse flying! Unless I can still use the normal joystick and keyboard layout for FreeSpace 2.

Yeah, that's lookin' real good. Can't wait to give it a try.


Whats wrong with the option of the mouse style? It's not like you'd have to click everything to get it to work, you could still use teh keyboard like normal... :doubt:
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 16, 2003, 03:05:08 pm
I was actually referring to increasing the angle of the view. That would hurt your targeting.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on May 16, 2003, 04:07:40 pm
the lead indicator is superimposed over your ship.
i need to make the reticle move for some accurate targeting
Title: ~Bump~
Post by: Knight Templar on May 25, 2003, 02:48:42 am
Anything new to report on this?

(yea yea, I just don't want to see it die. I like the idea that much. :p )
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 06, 2003, 12:51:00 pm
*BUMP*

Right, I've been out flying my SA-43 and something has become very clear to me - we really need to be able to see what we're flying. Inside the cockpit, you could be flying any FreeSpace ship. Outside, you're flying an SA-43 Hammerhead jet fighter! w00T! Jump back in the cockipt, and it's just another ship again.

Being able to see your fighter in a decent 3rd person view would be cool, and a useful shortcut for modders like myself who have no ability to alter the HUD graphics. Could the coders please re-evaluate the suggestion (again)?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on June 06, 2003, 12:57:08 pm
its in there. my latest build has it enabled. just press the asterisk key on the keypad

http://www.swooh.com/peon/phreak/fs2_open_r.zip
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: diamondgeezer on June 06, 2003, 01:02:16 pm
Testing now :)

[EDIT] Seems to work. Big up teh PhReAk massive!
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on June 10, 2003, 08:10:09 pm
Uber. I'll play with it when finals are over. :D

(Oh boy, I can't wait!)
Title: 3rd person perspective is FANTASTIC!
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 18, 2003, 08:38:29 am
Only one minor gripe... could there be a way for us to make computer-player's ship a little smaller.... (a way to make players' ship zoom in or out.) I understand that this may not be feasible, but then I just had to ask!!

My humble opinion is that it is too large.

Being playing Warzone 1.01 with the above .exe and am having a BLAST (literally!). I am 4 missions in that and NO PROBLEMS!!

For me this was the only thing I could possibly be jealous of that Starlancer had and we here didn't.

Now that this is getting settled, there is no turning back.

Will report back once I finish it. Then I will replay the main campaign.

Playing on a P2 448 Mhz (112 Mhz Bus) on a 64MB Ti4200 latest Nvidia drivers 44.03 or something.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on June 18, 2003, 10:16:27 am
use the + and - keys on the keypad to zoom
Title: 3d perspective reporting
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 18, 2003, 04:15:33 pm
Thanks for that PhReaK!

Another thing I have to report. On Warzone, (mission 7-8 if I recall correctly) where you defend the jump node and kill whatever comes through, you are flying an Artemis bomber. Rather than flowing (going left as you go right, and down as you go up) it stays put on the spot, stationary just follows the target. It keeps on moving (gamewise of course) but to the casual observer (and the player) it keeps on the same actual place. Stationary under the hud. I haven't seen this before with ALL the other models that I have worked with. I will try it again just to be sure I haven't done something wrong.

Either way, it has got to be a mod misplaced (in the previous mission there was a modded bomber where there is now Artemis).

But the fact remains. IT WORKS, I LOVE IT AND IT MAKES THE GAME TOTALLY REPLAYABLE FOR ME.

On another note... tell me freak your version of the exe, has it got ambient lights?
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: Knight Templar on June 18, 2003, 04:35:00 pm
ooh PhReAk, you are da man :yes: :D
Title: Hmm, artemis bugs out on me.
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 18, 2003, 05:50:32 pm
Well, it keeps happening, but a WAY OUT is found.

After heavy turning either left rigtht  up or down , your ship on screen "looses focus" somehow and goes up on the "default" position and becomes another part of the HUD. (It doesn't move, just sits under the hud doing nothing)

BUT,

Pressing TAB (or any other button or joy-button that is your AFTERBURNER) your ship starts moving again (ebbing and flowing, responding with inertia like grace to your movements).

Unfortunately, (especially after big turns) ARTEMIS loses it again and "defaults" dead under the HUD. Again pressing the TAB will set things straight, for a while.

What is important to note is that this kind  of attitude only works with the Artemis (so far)

If I was asked if I could work with that and if this feature works and percentage I would gladly respond. 92% is working like a charm and by pressing the afterburner button (default TAB) you can make the rest 8% work too.

So, if you want to try a different perspective prespective on FS2...

GO DOWNLOAD FREAKS Fs2 EXE (in page 1 or 2 of this thread) AND PLAY! IT WILL FEEL LIKE PLAYING A DIFFERENT BETTER GAME.
Title: More observations
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 19, 2003, 05:34:30 pm
Hmm, what was first recorded as a bug, remains one.

Meaning that sometimes the ship (on the 3d perspective) stops dead and becomes a hud extension, it doens't "flow" with  you like it should.

This happens as follows;

Randomly, but with more possibilities of it happening when you are flying a bomber be it Terran or Vasudan.
-For some unknown reason I cannot fathom it doesn't happen as much (nearly never) when you are flying a fighter.
-When it does happen, press the afterburner button (even momentarily) and you 're home free. It will "flow" again.
-When bumping on another ship, and vice versa the view defaults on first person.
-Same thing happens when a beam strikes you and jerks you silly.
--When using + or - to select the distance you want to see the ship from, sometimes your selection is forgotten and you have to reset it (I rate it a very small bug).

These are all I can remember right now. I will post more as I find them (but I don't think there  are any more to be found)

SO, it works 92% of the time, and when it doesn't press afterburner and it will.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: phreak on June 19, 2003, 08:56:04 pm
i think what you are describing are the side effects of a bug fix to this problem when a ship's eye point is not 0,0,0
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/scroll/misc/maahesoffsethud.gif
i was wondering what i changed would do.
Title: Enhanced 3rd Person View
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 20, 2003, 10:58:53 am
If I can read the picture correctly, it seems that the guns do not converge where they should - or that the shivan dissappeared. Can't really tell. However on plain (1.20) Fs2, when pressing the asterisk the same thing happens.

Without the HUD, sometimes (OK, a lot of times, more than in your .exe) your ship on screen stays "glued" to its place, when all your surroundings may move and in all directions. Pressing TAB over there works too. (How many times have I written that already ... :) )
Title: Just finished Warzone on that .exe
Post by: GT-Keravnos on June 22, 2003, 01:12:46 am
So, thanks all around for a job well done. (And that includes Icefire, even some years later)

General observations... Just that WITH DX8+ framerate seems to have fallen. (my system is a 448 Mhz, so I suspect that the ligths were too much for it, despite my sparky new GF4 4200's efforts to keep up.)

Other than that, only good things I can say. That thing is rock solid. (launcher that detects your card/resolution/what have you) is really cool!)

It takes the usual LONG time to load each level, but other than that (and the hit on framerates compared to 1.20, even when I disabled AA compeletely), all is good!

The only small problem that remains is the known unreadable text on GF4's, but that to me is "a new font" :)  ;7