Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stunaep on May 17, 2003, 09:17:45 am
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The latest social poll shows, that 20% of Estonian children aging 13-18 have done drugs. The last case involved a 7-year-old girl dying of heroine overdose. Autopsy indicated that the girld had been on drugs for at least 1 1/2 years.
Now, I'm not familiar with the statistics in the US, and GB, and Netherlands, where most of our members are from, but for a country with a population of 1.5 million, this is catastrophic. I mean, russia has 30% of the population who are alchoholics, and you can see what it has done to them.
So, how are things at your place, and what do you think of our situation. Discuss.
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MEH MEH MEH!
More countries should allow coffeeshops and stuff. It allows for "clean" drugs to be used. Not illigal, bad, and toxic drugs. I am all for coffee shops cause drugs will be used one way or another. And I prefer the way we handle it.
Also, when drugs is totally, 100% illigal. You will have a lot more crime in the way of drugdealers and such.
Though harddrugs is a whole different thing as there is no such thing as "clean" harddrugs.
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they wanted to make canabis legal in France last year, but the idea has been trashed ( didn't fit at all with the current internal policies laws which tends to become more and more hard for that kind of stuff, mainly for driver security purposes ).
about that soft drugs things, my opinion is kindda random. sure a **** bar is less dangerous than tobacco, that's a known fact. but it does have effects on peoples behaviour. one of my friends told me he had no pb driving after haing a join, then we go for a ride, and he was astonished how slow I was driving. slow being 90km/h...
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Originally posted by Venom
they wanted to make canabis legal in France last year, but the idea has been trashed ( didn't fit at all with the current internal policies laws which tends to become more and more hard for that kind of stuff, mainly for driver security purposes ).
Then France too, will follow this pattern:
Big ass anti drugs campaign for popularity > seems to work > Underground illigal drug traffic increases as when something is illigal people want it even more > bad drugs enter the market > people start dying
I mean, if someone wants drugs, he/she will get it anyway. Whats the harm in providing "clean" drugs instead of letting illigal drugs control the market?
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Dude, that IS slow.
Anything under 200 is considered 'old-lady driving' in my circle of 'friends'.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Then France too, will follow this pattern:
Big ass anti drugs campaign for popularity > seems to work > Underground illigal drug traffic increases as when something is illigal people want it even more > bad drugs enter the market > people start dying
I mean, if someone wants drugs, he/she will get it anyway. Whats the harm in providing "clean" drugs instead of letting illigal drugs control the market?
will follow this pattern?
todays news:
a 16 years old kid in hospital, being stabbed by another 16 years old kid, both were involved in a cannabis trade at school. doctors are very pessimistic.
and there's nothing new here.
and An0n, I meant he thought I was driving at 40 km/h
and I laugh at your friends, that's just allbiggy talk :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Venom
will follow this pattern?
todays news:
a 16 years old kid in hospital, being stabbed by another 16 years old kid, both were involved in a cannabis trade at school. doctors are very pessimistic.
And it'll only get worse when the gov will go on a drug hunting spree. When its hard to get drugs, there will be a high demand. When there is a high demand dealers will appear. And rest assured that those drugs are far worse then the drugs you can get at the coffeeshop.
Also, a kid getting stabbed over drugs is truly nothing special in a country with as many inhabitants as France. If its not over drugs then its an out of control barfight. Then again, we barely have any drug related incidents besides the usual driving under influence. But that really won't go away, no matter what you do.
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Country A ---> Flow of drugs ---> Country B
What stops that flow then?
Force country A to stop production.
Just don't do a US job like Afghanistan where drug production has increased. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Tiara
And it'll only get worse when the gov will go on a drug hunting spree. When its hard to get drugs, there will be a high demand. When there is a high demand dealers will appear. And rest assured that those drugs are far worse then the drugs you can get at the coffeeshop.
uhm, in Eindhoven and the places around it, the government has gone on a drug huting spree, most of the cops here are wasting their backs by dragging weed out of homes constantly.
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vyper: Yeah, you go ahead and try that. At absolute best, if the other government cooperates with yours metaphorically ramming metaphorical sharp things up their metaphorical ass, the police are actually, say, 10% effective against drug farmers and traffickers (killing hundreds, and putting many thousands of people- some of whom such as the farmers pretty much have a choice between the drug trade and a slow death by starvation), you get something like Mexico last month, and hundreds of DC kids dying because due to supply shortages their crack is two parts toxic chemical and one part dog****. Our government's real (http://www.wpierce.com/wlp/fck.gif)ing brilliant.
Legalization will never happen in this country, at least, the DEA's too much of a cash cow. Thousands of employees; billions of dollars; funnels millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of people into local prisons, feeding the whole pork system; no real expected effect... it's an embezzler's dream, and quite a lot of the people in power are embezzlers. Hell, whole reason drugs were banned in the US in the first place was that they didn't wanna fire all the Volstead cops after Prohibition.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
vyper: Yeah, you go ahead and try that. At absolute best, if the other government cooperates with yours metaphorically ramming metaphorical sharp things up their metaphorical ass, the police are actually, say, 10% effective against drug farmers and traffickers (killing hundreds, and putting many thousands of people- some of whom such as the farmers pretty much have a choice between the drug trade and a slow death by starvation), you get something like Mexico last month, and hundreds of DC kids dying because due to supply shortages their crack is two parts toxic chemical and one part dog****. Our government's real (http://www.wpierce.com/wlp/fck.gif)ing brilliant.
Who said anything about thier government? Secondly, I'm not interested in saving the addicts right now - I'm interested in stopping more being created.
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Originally posted by kasperl
uhm, in Eindhoven and the places around it, the government has gone on a drug huting spree, most of the cops here are wasting their backs by dragging weed out of homes constantly.
Thats what happens if you cross the line. Even in Holland we have rules about drugs. Allowing drugs is one thing. Allowing illigal drugs is another things. It isn't allowed to grow weed in your own home (more then 4 weed plants that is). And if everyone does that its only logical the police does that. But you won't see the police cleaning out a coffeeshop unless they are selling illigal drugs.
You have to remember that drugs sold in coffeeshops is tested and stuff. Homegrown drugs isn't tested and therefor can be dangerous.
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Originally posted by vyper
Who said anything about thier government? Secondly, I'm not interested in saving the addicts right now - I'm interested in stopping more being created.
So you just want to "ignore" their government? suuuure. You can try that without... ARGH! I'm not wasting my time with this :p
I might've misunderstood your comment (the "Who said anything about thier government?") So forgive if I did :p
Secondly, drugs will ALWAYS flow into a country. If one country stops producing the next takes over. And believe me when I say that you cannot clean out any drugs producing country without litterally destroying some of them.
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Originally posted by Tiara
Thats what happens if you cross the line. Even in Holland we have rules about drugs. Allowing drugs is one thing. Allowing illigal drugs is another things. It isn't allowed to grow weed in your own home (more then 4 weed plants that is). And if everyone does that its only logical the police does that. But you won't see the police cleaning out a coffeeshop unless they are selling illigal drugs.
You have to remember that drugs sold in coffeeshops is tested and stuff. Homegrown drugs isn't tested and therefor can be dangerous.
well, agreed, but this was a little OTT, especially since most equipment is being sold by the police, and bought by the weed-growers
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Originally posted by kasperl
well, agreed, but this was a little OTT, especially since most equipment is being sold by the police, and bought by the weed-growers
equipment?
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Originally posted by Tiara
equipment?
the lamps, watering instalations, whatever else you need to grow that stuff.
first, they confiscate it, then they auctioned it.
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Originally posted by kasperl
the lamps, watering instalations, whatever else you need to grow that stuff.
first, they confiscate it, then they auctioned it.
Cause it isn't illigal to own those. Who cares who owns a lamp, watering installation etc? You can buy that ANYWHERE. Only now its cheaper :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
Cause it isn't illigal to own those. Who cares who owns a lamp, watering installation etc? You can buy that ANYWHERE. Only now its cheaper :p
the problem is, the poeple who lost it during the raid,go to the auction and buy their stuff back.
so basicly the police made a lot of money by dragging all that stuff around and burnging the weed.
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Same as always.
Used to be, they'd sell the drugs, too.
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Originally posted by kasperl
the problem is, the poeple who lost it during the raid,go to the auction and buy their stuff back.
so basicly the police made a lot of money by dragging all that stuff around and burnging the weed.
Yes, but even if they didn't resell it they'd just get new stuff. This way they make a buck out of it :p But then again, the person caught producing the drugs gets a big ass fine to pay. MO MONEY!
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Originally posted by an0n
Dude, that IS slow.
Anything under 200 is considered 'old-lady driving' in my circle of 'friends'.
[color=66ff00]*pictures an0n eating a quarter and strapping himself into the budweiser rocket.* :)
I agree with Tiara, her country's current stance on drugs seems to be partially effective compared to 100% anti-drug countries. Do you guys know that the World health organisation did extensive testing with cannibis and found it to be far less damaging than alcohol? The results were quietly swept under the carpet of course.
BTW can anyone verify the story that at one time the mafia used a U-boat to run drugs, that would be quite funny if it was true. :lol:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I agree with Tiara, her country's current stance on drugs seems to be partially effective compared to 100% anti-drug countries. Do you guys know that the World health organisation did extensive testing with cannibis and found it to be far less damaging than alcohol? The results were quietly swept under the carpet of course.[/color]
Yup. And I'll never say that we have the 100% fullproof solution for drugs cause it doesn't exist. Drugs are bad unless used for medical purposes. (Already in use. Cannabis is used as a painkiller in some cases)
Also, alcohol is far more damaging then drugs. If not physical, then social and in real life situations such as in traffic. When you are stoned its easier to drive then when you are drunk. Drugs are mood enhancing as where alcohol affects your physical state as well. Drugs are still not desirable mind you.
This is about SOFT drugs. Hard drugs is a totally different thing. Hence its illigal even here
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Originally posted by Tiara
Drugs are still not desirable mind you.
[color=66ff00]Well, to us anyway. I personally have no problem with people getting out of their tree on drugs as long as everyone is happy, my friends are great believers in the fun potential of resin and we generally all have a good time. It's the only time I can beat my friend paul at soulcalibur, he's a talented bastard, I can only keep a 1:3 ratio of wins when he's straight. :lol:
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Yeah, chemicals are bad for the reflexes. Either you're slow or you're twitchy, or you're more worried about the swarms of invisible bats flying around your head.;)
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Yeah, chemicals are bad for the reflexes. Either you're slow or you're twitchy, or you're more worried about the swarms of invisible bats flying around your head.;)
[color=66ff00]Ahhh, Fear and loatthing in las Vegas. Really good flik. :lol:
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Freaky book, too. But yep. Think the cop-convention lobby scene's one of the greats in movie history, right up there with Slim Pickens riding the Bomb.:D
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We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of uppers, downers, laughers, screamers... Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether, and two dozen amyls. Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge, and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon.
wOOt!!;7
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Originally posted by Tiara
Allowing drugs is one thing. Allowing illigal drugs is another things.
Sig materiel!! :lol:
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Scientific evidence suggests canibis causes cancer, quite a high risk among other effects.
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Originally posted by Zeronet
Scientific evidence suggests canibis causes cancer, quite a high risk among other effects.
Just like cigarette smoking, last time I checked that was legal. I personally think all drugs should be legalised because you stop pushers having anything to push then you stop a lot of addicts, everything should be available for you to do, common sense would tell most people to avoid harder stuff anyways.
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Hear hear.
cigarettes are far moe harmful than cannabis, only cannabis won't be legalised, as they won't be able to tax it, and so it would not profit them.
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Zeronet: Actually, the full scientific report indicates that it can be marginally less or slightly more carcinogenic than tobacco, depending on composition and type- the average joint will have a bit more tar in it than is, technically speaking, legal (duh), but homegrown and bong weed are pretty safe. And there are no other demonstrated permanent side effects than those found in pretty much any smoked compound short of freebase-type drugs, which are more boiled than smoked anyway.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Sig materiel!! :lol:
... There is a difference between drugs and illigal drugs... I don't see why this is funny.
Example, alcohol and XTC...
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I think the joke there was about "allowing" illegal drugs, since the whole definition of an illegal drug is one that is not legal or not allowed. :D
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Allowing illigal drugs is perfectly normal. This is cause in the present they are still illigal, and thus you would be allowing illigal drugs. But only once they are allowed they are no longer illigal. :D
Ok, yeah.... whatever... :p
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Originally posted by Tiara
... There is a difference between drugs and illigal drugs... I don't see why this is funny.
Example, alcohol and XTC...
'Twas all in the nuances.... ;)
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In Canada, they've pretty much legalized pot...not that I smoke it
I believe that all the druglords should be rounded up and either put in jail for who knows how long or killed.
oddly enough, thats what happened in Yugoslavia after Djindjic's death (prime minster was assasinated, remember the thread). The remaining good guys in the government went after mafia/druglords/mercenaries/Milosevic's paramilitaries (they kinda blend together at times)
the result is something like 3000 people in jail, most of the mafia gone (or in hiding) and a huge confiscation of drugs, which has led to Yugoslavia's rehab clinics to be overloaded by people suffering from withdrawl, but its a sure sign you're making a real difference. There was one guy in particular, goes by the nickname Legion (he trained in the French Foreign Legion, as did many of Yugo's mafia types). IN his mother house in the country, the police siezed a load of AKs and 16kg of heroin
I think thats a good way to go, since you can either fight them hard, or give up and let them run the country..
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Now this thread has gone... wayy out of the window.
Now let´s bring it back.
Sure you can allow drugs, or not allow drugs, but the point I was trying to make, was that a gravely large number of kids/teens do drugs.
I mean, smoking isn´t legal until you turn 18. Neither is alchohol. And smoking weed is definately worse for your health (and budget) than either of them, not to mention, the so-called "illegal drugs" - amphetamine, heroine, dope, whatever the current popular slang version is, I wouldn´t know, I live in a society that considers americans violent gung-ho gangsters bent on world domination..
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Originally posted by Stunaep
I mean, smoking isn´t legal until you turn 18. Neither is alchohol.
BZZZ! Wrong awnser. The correct awnser was:
Smoking has no age limit (My 12-year old brother smokes. Don't ask why though) and light alcoholic drinks (beer, bacardi, etc) is 16 years and older. Only the heavy drinks (10% alcohol and up is 18+ IIRC.
This is probably only for holland :p
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and you are right.
But well, you know. Holland is a different country.
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Originally posted by Stunaep
and you are right.
But well, you know. Holland is a different country.
I know I am :D
And I'm glad we are different ;)
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Originally posted by Stunaep
I mean, smoking isn´t legal until you turn 18. Neither is alchohol. And smoking weed is definately worse for your health (and budget) than either of them
Alcohol is most definently worse for you than pot. I've heard of far more people who die of alcohol poisoning and liver problems than of anything pot related.
Let alone all the drunk driving fatalities.
And the horrible child and spousal(sp?) abuse that results from alcoholism.
The only reason alcohol is tolerated is because it is the drug of choice of the establishment.
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Well said my friend.
Alchohol is kept legal as it has been part of life sine time immemorial, and becuase of the huges bounties the capitalists can make from taxing it.
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Can you imagane the boon the snack food industry undergo if pot was legal? Not to mention all the jobs it would open up in the convenience store sector.:lol:
:EDIT:
Am I mistaken, or did GB just legalize pot for personal use?
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new Boost! With added Mary Jane!
Anyway, do you not read PMs?