Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: TopAce on May 20, 2003, 01:02:59 pm
-
This thread has one topic:
Use this thread to declare war on each other, or to send somebody to hell. Wish him his chair explode, when he is sitting on it. Tell your problem about somebody OPENLY.
THIS IS THE THREAD OF WAR FOR EVERYONE!
MAXIMAL VIOLANCE! NO MERCY !
-
Is this some kind of "I WANNA BE POPULAR AND IM GONNA MAKE A OT INTERACTIVE THREAD TO DO IT!!!!!11111" thread?
(Sorry bud, you openly ask for hostility, so here u go :))
-
This thread will not last.
-
Shall we transform this thread into a normal serious topic?
-
Yes.
Let us discuss the interal layout of the Argo.
I believe it will be very cramped inside, despite being a large craft. This is because there are many potential dockpoint on it, and so each one will required bulky airlock equpment.
-
I wonder how true space-combat would be...
if you can jump from any point in one system to another, then that would make ambushes very easy. But you could just as easy jump away if it happens to you. How would warfare adapt to inter-system jumping?
and what about the jump nodes. Obviously they would be very importnat strategic locations, as it is the only means of travel to other systems. As a result, major installations and factories would be positioned near a jump node. It would make things very simple, i guess....
is this serious enough? :)
-
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Yes.
Let us discuss the interal layout of the Argo.
I believe it will be very cramped inside, despite being a large craft. This is because there are many potential dockpoint on it, and so each one will required bulky airlock equpment.
What's the capacity of the Argo? 1000? 2000? Considering they can hold some 6000 humans on a 600-meter brick, with armor heavier than that of a Indosiean Elephant Turtle, plus there are beam cannons, I think even in spite of the crampiness Argo should hold 3000 at least.
Wait... didn't Petrarch say in a Blue Lions Debriefing, that an Argo can hold 2500. Something along the lines of "The Argo XXXX was destroyed. 2500 lives were lost"
-
I think you'd need to pack them into crates to store that many. ^_^
Sid.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
What's the capacity of the Argo? ....
That's that I was curious about. The thread begun at topic a , now here is the topic b , and the thread will be now about this topic b , which is the question above. My experience is that a thread starts at a specific topic(this case a topic of no meaning) and it goes to another topic very quickly, and the original topic will be lost.
-
Sorry guys(and girls, if there are some around us) I was not serious about this topic, I didn't want to do anything special with this thread, that was only a 'let's see how true my experiences are'-class topic. From my part you might erase it immediatly, I was just curious.
Sorry everyone, again.
(Mr. Administrator : If you want, you can subtract three of my number of posts, these were not real-value posts in my eye.)
-
Meh.
Leave it open. We'll discuss the argo.
Right, it is 171 metres long, apparently. I shall produce a diagram of its infernal layout.
-
SCREW YOU ALL, YOU PINKO COMMIES!!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!:D
That violent enough for you?
-
You think that's violent?
You've never seen an English football crowd abroad, then.
-
...thank God :rollseyes:
Crazy brits...
-
That's why I despise football, it tends to turns people into wankers.
-
Don't you want to discuss the exact capacity of the Argo? I think that should be between 100 and 200 at most, it is too small to carry up to thousand(s) of personnel.
-
Are you mad TopAce? :wtf:
Seriously, a 150 meter-long ocean cruise ship could probably hold more people than that. An argo has a volume far superior to any cruise ship, and even with engines and systems space, the argo should hold at least 1000 troops. Come on, its a blasted troop ship! The GTVA would not design a good drop ship to hold less than 1000 people, which is an acceptable force. I mean, how else can an argo be able to take over a corvette when it boards?
-
Originally posted by Shiva-jin Buu
if you can jump from any point in one system to another, then that would make ambushes very easy. But you could just as easy jump away if it happens to you. How would warfare adapt to inter-system jumping?
Bin thinking about this today, as it happens, and my conclusion is that V's ideas on intra-system travel suck. OK, it makes mission designing easy since stuff can just appear and diasappear as needed, but it's a roayl bastard to rationalise. I mean, you could travel from one end of GTVA space to another in less than a day. That's just.. wrong. Why didn't the GTA/GTVA/whatever expand more rapidly given that it takes a few minutes to reach a solar system and jump across it? And what's the point in carriers? Fighters can be anywhere in system with a minute's notice, so why bother moving them around on carriers?
Someone needs to have a word with V :nod:
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Why didn't the GTA/GTVA/whatever expand more rapidly given that it takes a few minutes to reach a solar system and jump across it?
Because it is hard to find new jump nodes, I suppose.
And what's the point in carriers? Fighters can be anywhere in system with a minute's notice, so why bother moving them around on carriers?
Well, they need to be housed somewhere. It may as well be on board a moving ship as a stationary platform. Then they can be redeployed throughout GTVA space as needed.
-
Yeah, they'll need to be on carriers for inter-system travel.
-
besides, ships larger than fighters can't just jump out. They need to recharge their jump drives, which takes a good 7-8 minutes depending on size, and obviously they always arrive somewhat off the mark.
-
Hate is one thing I can easily live without. ;)
A few ideas about transport size:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,12121.0.html
As for intersystem travel, the FS2 idea would give room for some combat tricks that the ships of the original V missions did not use at all.
Though the Freelancer style of IS travel looks far more realistic and interesting IMO.
-
Originally posted by Sesquipedalian
Because it is hard to find new jump nodes, I suppose.
[/b]
Yes, but it's not like the FS series is set over a period of six months. Wars aside, you mean to tell me that in seventy-odd years of exploration the Terran and Vasudan peoples only added a couple dozen accessible stars to their map?
Well, they need to be housed somewhere. It may as well be on board a moving ship as a stationary platform. Then they can be redeployed throughout GTVA space as needed.
In uninhabited systems like Gamm Drac, fair enough. But for the majority of GTVA space, there's no need for carriers since fighters can scramble to anywhere within a solar system in only a few seconds. What I'm saying is that background-wise there's not all that much need for carriers. The US navy uses carriers to station fighters all over the world. but GTVA fighters with inter-system jump drives could cross GTVA space in less time than it takes an F-18 to fly around the world...
Originally posted by Stunaep
besides, ships larger than fighters can't just jump out. They need to recharge their jump drives, which takes a good 7-8 minutes depending on size, and obviously they always arrive somewhat off the mark.
What about first Raptors mission, taking out the convoy of NTF warships. You've got, what, three or four minutes to destroy each one? And since when to they 'obviously arrive off the mark'? Belesarius, Carthage and Dashor, Repulse and so. They jumped in right where they wanted to be.
-
This is heading towards Star Wars Technical Commentary's level of geekiness....
:D
-
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
This is heading towards Star Wars Technical Commentary's level of geekiness....
The farce is strong with this one...
-
[nevermind]
-
uh, what is the point of this thread? :wtf:
Yes, but it's not like the FS series is set over a period of six months. Wars aside, you mean to tell me that in seventy-odd years of exploration the Terran and Vasudan peoples only added a couple dozen accessible stars to their map?
It would appear so, looking at the FS starmap. That map is not just restricted to the main populated systems either since things like Gamma Draconis are on there. But the systems are big places and stable jump nodes are neither large nor abundant; it would probably take some time to comb the entire system looking for them. :p
-
I think you're wrong, CP. And that's the bottom line, because DG said so.
-
But I think you're wrong. And that is the even lower than bottom line because CP said so. :D
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
What about first Raptors mission, taking out the convoy of NTF warships. You've got, what, three or four minutes to destroy each one? And since when to they 'obviously arrive off the mark'? Belesarius, Carthage and Dashor, Repulse and so. They jumped in right where they wanted to be.
They arrive exactly on the mark cause they are jumping in from a node so they have no choice but to appear exactly where the node is :D
From the other missions that involve big ships jumping in and out it would seem that there is a few minutes recharge time for a ship and also that the bigger the ship the less accurately on target it can jump in (although transports and freighters are pretty bad at jumping in on target too)
-
May I ask - has anyone ever thought about waste disposal in fs2?
Obviously even in our favorite universe people still need to use the cludgie, so how would GTVA craft dispose of the waste? If you just ejected it openly into space it would maintain the velocity of the ship and float along side. If you forcefully ejected it using decompression then it would gain quite a velocity and could pose a threat to other space craft. ("Alpha 1 was killed by Jobbie 2") So, how would one deal with it?
-
They'd have some way to recycle as much of it as possible, and what was left would be dumped on the lesser planets, like those in Dubhe and such systems.
-
Just dump it into subspace. :nervous:
Oh! ****! Thats why the shivans are after us!
-
Originally posted by karajorma
They arrive exactly on the mark cause they are jumping in from a node so they have no choice but to appear exactly where the node is :D
You're tabulating a graph my pedigree chum. Neither Belisarius, Carthage, Dashor or Repulse arrived in-game from a node. They arrived via an intra-system jump, and each arrived perfectly (I mean, a kilometer-long warship isn't going to worry about a few hundred meters offset, most of the time)
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
You're tabulating a graph my pedigree chum. Neither Belisarius, Carthage, Dashor or Repulse arrived in-game from a node. They arrived via an intra-system jump, and each arrived perfectly (I mean, a kilometer-long warship isn't going to worry about a few hundred meters offset, most of the time)
and exactly HOW do you know that. For all we know, the Repulse might have wanted to arrive 5000 meters to the Colossus' Stern. Or take the High Noon. A very easy way to explain why the Colossus engaged the Sath head-on (other than wanting to block it's path) is for it to have missed the mark. I can point out several other miscalculations:
- The Freighters in about every escort mission, including Into The Maelstrom
- Psamtik in "Straight, No Chaser"
- Granted the Psamtik arrived exactly where it wanted in "Surrender Belisarius". Good luck, huh?
- Dunkuerque. Surely the Messana could have arrived closer to 3rd fleet HQ.
I could list more.
-
The freighters in Malestrom arrive several clicks away from the node because otherwise the mission would be about ten seconds long. Besides, who'd want to come out of subspace at 300m/s in the middle of the asteroids? They dropped out of warp and flew through the rocks using normal engines.
Straight, No Chaser - was that the one where the Psamtik buys it? Remember that the command guy emphasises that the Psamtik arrived off-course and that nine clicks is 'way' off-course (so we know that destroyers are accurate to less than a few clicks at least). This dodgy arrival was due to the influence of the Knossos gate on the Psamtik's course through sub-space, and was not an inherant error (as the Vasudan dude explains)
Dunkuerque - I'd guess a big ship like the Orion wouldn't normally get closer to an installation than a few clicks. If it had aimed to warp in right next to the station and it had missed by a click or two, there could have been a terrible mess. I'd say the Mesana intended to give the Arcadia a wide berth.
As for the Repulse, the Big C arrived after the destroyer. So the Repulse woud not have been aiming to arrive behind the Colossus.
As for High Noon, warships in FS2 always engage each other head on. They're stupid like that, and GTVA command isn't much brighter. And remember that neither ship actually warped in to that misison, so they may well have manouvered themselves to their starting locations after arrival.
All your theory are belong to me :nod:
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
- Granted the Psamtik arrived exactly where it wanted in "Surrender Belisarius". Good luck, huh?
[/B]
But isn't it th other way round? The Psamtik is already there, and the Belisarius jumps in.
-
Excellent observation, Petrarch. Stunaep mate, you quite obviously have no chance - might as well make your time :nod:
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Excellent observation, Petrarch.
*takes a small bow. surreptitously releases a fart at the same time*
-
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
The freighters in Malestrom arrive several clicks away from the node because otherwise the mission would be about ten seconds long. Besides, who'd want to come out of subspace at 300m/s in the middle of the asteroids? They dropped out of warp and flew through the rocks using normal engines.
Straight, No Chaser - was that the one where the Psamtik buys it? Remember that the command guy emphasises that the Psamtik arrived off-course and that nine clicks is 'way' off-course (so we know that destroyers are accurate to less than a few clicks at least). This dodgy arrival was due to the influence of the Knossos gate on the Psamtik's course through sub-space, and was not an inherant error (as the Vasudan dude explains)
Dunkuerque - I'd guess a big ship like the Orion wouldn't normally get closer to an installation than a few clicks. If it had aimed to warp in right next to the station and it had missed by a click or two, there could have been a terrible mess. I'd say the Mesana intended to give the Arcadia a wide berth.
As for the Repulse, the Big C arrived after the destroyer. So the Repulse woud not have been aiming to arrive behind the Colossus.
As for High Noon, warships in FS2 always engage each other head on. They're stupid like that, and GTVA command isn't much brighter. And remember that neither ship actually warped in to that misison, so they may well have manouvered themselves to their starting locations after arrival.
All your theory are belong to me :nod:
1: Point taken. But the node area wasn't filled with asteroids. Or where the NTF cruiser jumped in. Why not jump in there? And if we were talking from a mission designer's point of view, then we wouldn't be talking at all.
2. 3-4 clicks is all you need. And let's not forget the charge time.
3. See, if the destroyers actually were as accurate as you say, then the're would have been no reason to warp them in at least 1-2 clicks closer.
4. I was taking the Big C as a point of reference. I just meant, maybe the Repulse meant to warp in 5000 clicks to the 'left'
5. See 1
6. Petrarch, I wasn't referring to that. The Psamtik was ALSO the Recovery ship, the freighters without jump drives needed. And it warped in right in front of them. And here I was actually supporting DG, so what the hell are you yapping about anyway
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
6. Petrarch, I wasn't referring to that. The Psamtik was ALSO the Recovery ship, the freighters without jump drives needed. And it warped in right in front of them. And here I was actually supporting DG, so what the hell are you yapping about anyway
I just enjoy being a pedant.:D
And besides, it didn't seem as though you were supporting him, as your words "good luck, eh" seemed quite sarcastic.
-
Remember, not every ship, nor every jump might adhere to the same basic rules. Accuracy could be affected by any number of factors, quality of the jump drive, skill of the operator, distance of the jump, Gravitational forces at work within the area of the jump in (or possibly even the jump out), speed of the ship upon entering or exiting, size of the vessel, the conditions of intra system of subspoace assuming that they vary from system to system - there are dozens of potential factors that we have no way of guessing at or calculating (the most important being mission designers whim :) ).
What I would like to know is if objects in realspace have any effect on subspace - this might explain why ships feel the need to drop out of subspace all the time for asteroid fields and such - I mean, why really did the Bellisarius drop out of subspace to take on the Psamtik - there was no way it was going to win - logic would have suggested you just stay in subspace, bypass it and get the hell out of Deneb.
-
Originally posted by Stunaep
3. See, if the destroyers actually were as accurate as you say, then the're would have been no reason to warp them in at least 1-2 clicks closer.
[/b]
What I mean is that aiming for a point a few clicks form the station would help minimise damage if something did go wrong and the ship did arrive off course. If it aimed real close to the station and was slightly off course there could be a collision. The Mesana was just keeping a safe distance.
Originally posted by Black Wolf
I mean, why really did the Bellisarius drop out of subspace to take on the Psamtik - there was no way it was going to win - logic would have suggested you just stay in subspace, bypass it and get the hell out of Deneb.
The captain was trying to make a point, methinks. Remember what Koth says?
-
Originally posted by GrandAdmiralAbaht
....
Seriously, a 150 meter-long ocean cruise ...
It is possible it is 150 meters long, but in-game it looks not longer than at most 50 meters. :confused:
-
Originally posted by Black Wolf
What I would like to know is if objects in realspace have any effect on subspace - this might explain why ships feel the need to drop out of subspace all the time for asteroid fields and such - I mean, why really did the Bellisarius drop out of subspace to take on the Psamtik - there was no way it was going to win - logic would have suggested you just stay in subspace, bypass it and get the hell out of Deneb.
Most likely the captain of the Bellisarius didn't recieve the information on the arrival of the Psamtik in time. He started his jump only a few seconds after the arrival of the Psamtik after all.
-
With regards to what TopAce said... does anyone else think stuff looks to small in-game? I mean, I've got this 525m carrier for me FS:AAB project, but it really doesn't look all that impressive size-wise. I'm wondering whether this is due to FS ships being rather larger, or an actual aspect fo the game engine or something. Place your bets!
-
Tis apparently a FOV issue - you're actually seeing a lot more of the battlefield than you would normaly if you looked straight ahead with real eyes in a real cockpit - it's to simulate the fact that you'd be able tolook left and right in a clear cockpit. But it makes Anything smaller than the Collossus, well, puny.
-
i would personally enjoy reading a compilation of supposed values that influence warp nodes, subspace and whatnot. :nervous:
it's 4:40a EST, I'm exhausted, going to bed, it'll give us all something to think about, yes?
Bob