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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arnav on May 26, 2003, 10:17:52 pm

Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 26, 2003, 10:17:52 pm: Hear ye hear ye.

Arnav - of Technological Superiority fame (or, infamy) has returned to the fold.

Long has he ignored ye. Long has he thought Freespace 2 was behind him.

But the pull could not be resisted. The HLP beckoned. HE WAS AWAKENED WITH THE POKE OF THE STICK!

And with this ([in]glorious?) return, comes news.

I have dreamt a dream. That dream is NOT lost.

That dream is Technological Superiority.

Part 2.

Long have the ideas, the plans, the mission outlines lain on my desktop. It is time, my friends, to do something about it.

And in this message, I send a call... for mission designers! For people to aid me in this task.

WE ARE STILL HERE! (oh wait, wrong place... :P)

That is all.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stealth on May 26, 2003, 10:22:48 pm: does this mean you'll be completing Technical Superiority? that whole message of yours was hard to comprehend
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 26, 2003, 10:24:26 pm: Yes.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stealth on May 26, 2003, 10:30:10 pm: awesome

EDIT: what happened to your avatar?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 26, 2003, 10:32:09 pm: sweet.....

sooo, where HAVE you been arnav?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 26, 2003, 10:33:13 pm: Finished my first year at university, and have a few weeks to kill. And I want to get back my life in terms of gaming. And where better to do it than Freespace 2? :)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 26, 2003, 10:45:43 pm: fair enough...

have you checked out the art forum yet? alot has been posted since you were last here...:thepimp:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 26, 2003, 10:48:12 pm: A whole year's worth, in fact.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 26, 2003, 10:55:10 pm: :p indeed...
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 27, 2003, 01:12:47 am: Velcome back, comrade.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Knight Templar on May 27, 2003, 11:26:55 am: Going AWOL again will not be taken lightly, just so you have a fair warning. :p
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Martinus on May 27, 2003, 01:28:29 pm: Ya! Deserters vill be shot!
Modders vill be given the order of Lenin. Go forth and make mother russia proud sergei... uhhh Arnav.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 27, 2003, 02:18:19 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
Ya! Deserters vill be shot!
Modders vill be given the order of Lenin. Go forth and make mother russia proud sergei... uhhh Arnav.

aaaaaahhh shaaadaaap!. :p I am sick of that russian "go get it boy thing" anyway. :ick
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:11:21 pm: *Distributes M-16s to those resisting the rule of HLP by Communists*
*Goes to fulfill his title*
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:13:09 pm: m16? last time i used them in a game (AA to be exact, supposed to be realistic), it jammed on me every other shot.

*goes of to take an ak-74 and modify it to stun instead of kill*
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:14:44 pm: OK, OK, whiner....
*Takes back the M-16s, distributes Mad Cats from Battletech instead*
Mmmm.... ERPPCs.....
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:16:01 pm: are those lethal?

i don't kill, i disable, and set my victims up for public mockery
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 27, 2003, 03:24:26 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
*Distributes M-16s to those resisting the rule of HLP by Communists*
*Goes to fulfill his title*

Whats an m16? :wtf:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stealth on May 27, 2003, 03:27:03 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Razor

Whats an m16? :wtf:

i think it's a fighter plane...

just kidding
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 27, 2003, 03:30:53 pm: [glow=red]BY THE ORDER OF THE RED DAWN, ALL DISSENTERS ARE TO REPORT TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE CENTRE FOR DISINTIGRATION.[/glow]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:33:05 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Razor

Whats an m16? :wtf:

standard US-Army rifle, IMHO, a POS, no full auto, 3 shot burst and single only, jams more than a NY road in rush hour, and as sights you can't use cause they take up half your FOV.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:34:57 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]BY THE ORDER OF THE RED DAWN, ALL DISSENTERS ARE TO REPORT TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE CENTRE FOR DISINTIGRATION.[/glow]
*Goes underground*
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:37:23 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]BY THE ORDER OF THE RED DAWN, ALL DISSENTERS ARE TO REPORT TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE CENTRE FOR DISINTIGRATION.[/glow]

ah well, no holiday for me then

*goes of to hide*

*preps good old ak-74 with stun darts*

i won't shoot on comrades if i don't need to, since i support your ideology, i just not support the way it's carried out.

in other words, i like socialism, but hate the party.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:40:54 pm: I don't really mind true socialism, but the problem with that is it doesn't truly exist.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Tiara on May 27, 2003, 03:40:56 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
*Goes underground*

[glow=red]Just don't make any noise up there... I just managed to get some peace and quiet down here in hell. Satan is quite a... "pest" to get rid off. But he eventually agreed to move in with Bill Gates and give me full ownership of the nine levels of hell.

Ow, and feel free to visit anytime when you feel like decapitating someone. [/glow]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:43:58 pm: ok, will do.

btw, where are Satan and Bill Gates?

and do you by any chance know when Dubaya is going downstairs?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 27, 2003, 03:45:54 pm: Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
i won't shoot on comrades if i don't need to, since i support your ideology, i just not support the way it's carried out.

in other words, i like socialism, but hate the party.
[glow=red]THERE IS NO SOCIALISM EXCEPT THROUGH THE PARTY. WE ARE THE FORCES OF HISTORY EMBODIED.[/glow]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Martinus on May 27, 2003, 03:46:29 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

[glow=red]Just don't make any noise up there... I just managed to get some peace and quiet down here in hell. Satan is quite a... "pest" to get rid off. But he eventually agreed to move in with Bill Gates and give me full ownership of the nine levels of hell.

Ow, and feel free to visit anytime when you feel like decapitating someone. [/glow]

Satanic capitalist pig! I spit on your nine levels.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:48:09 pm: *Steals Mars and Morrigan from Maeg*
*Steals the GOU Loose Cannon from Shrike*
*Goes underground again*
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:48:35 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]THERE IS NO SOCIALISM EXCEPT THROUGH THE PARTY. WE ARE THE FORCES OF HISTORY EMBODIED.[/glow]

but comrade, if the party dictates the world, then the proletariat doesn't, so there is no true socialism.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 27, 2003, 03:50:25 pm: [glow=red]THE PARTY IS THE WILL OF THE PROLETARIAT AND THE PROLETARIAT IS THE BODY OF THE PARTY.[/glow]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:51:55 pm: We must overthrow the party and establish a true communist state, and overthrow this totalitarian monstrosity that hides beneath the appearance of socialism!
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Tiara on May 27, 2003, 03:53:28 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

Satanic capitalist pig! I spit on your nine levels.

[glow=red]...

I've helped you and your puny communist nation more then once. But I'll remember that next time you ask for a favor, comrade.[/glow]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:53:50 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]THE PARTY IS THE WILL OF THE PROLETARIAT AND THE PROLETARIAT IS THE BODY OF THE PARTY.[/glow]

i am part of the proletariat, and i don't endorse the party, equal to many who share my views. so what you are saying is false, if even a small part of the proletariat disagrees, the party can't be the will of the proletariat, and the proletariat can't be the body of the party, since the party doesn't share the will of the proletariat.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 27, 2003, 03:56:16 pm: Also, how can the proletariat be the body of the party if they are not freely allowed to join and state their opinions?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 27, 2003, 03:56:49 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Also, how can the proletariat be the body of the party if they are not freely allowed to join and state their opinions?

that's what i ment
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Martinus on May 27, 2003, 03:58:58 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]THERE IS NO SOCIALISM EXCEPT THROUGH THE PARTY. WE ARE THE FORCES OF HISTORY EMBODIED.[/glow]

I fully endorse this product and/or service.
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/staff/maeglamor/bigrussian.jpeg)
Go Russia!
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 27, 2003, 04:15:54 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
[glow=red]BY THE ORDER OF THE RED DAWN, ALL DISSENTERS ARE TO REPORT TO YOUR LOCAL POLICE CENTRE FOR DISINTIGRATION.[/glow]

Is this like from Command And Conquer Renegade: "All Intruders please report to the detention center" only iwth more cynicism?

Well forget about it pops. I ain't getting disintegrated yet. *Pulls all guns*

Quote
Just don't make any noise up there... I just managed to get some peace and quiet down here in hell. Satan is quite a... "pest" to get rid off. But he eventually agreed to move in with Bill Gates and give me full ownership of the nine levels of hell.

You are one really really sick girl. See what did I tell ya? Girls are EVIL :mad2: Evil I tell ya!
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Tiara on May 27, 2003, 04:20:03 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Razor

You are one really really sick girl. See what did I tell ya? Girls are EVIL :mad2: Evil I tell ya!

I get rid of the devil and I'm evil? :p
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 27, 2003, 04:35:37 pm: Fascinating discussion guys :), but I really *do* need help for TS2.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stunaep on May 27, 2003, 05:07:15 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor

Modders vill be given the order of Lenin.

I´ll take three! Will I be given a double ration of potatos and toilet paper, if I join the Party? What about a car? I could always use a new Volga.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 27, 2003, 05:29:37 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

I get rid of the devil and I'm evil? :p

:snipe:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 27, 2003, 06:38:37 pm: Quote
Originally posted by kasperl

standard US-Army rifle, IMHO, a POS, no full auto, 3 shot burst and single only, jams more than a NY road in rush hour, and as sights you can't use cause they take up half your FOV.

:wtf: Only thing right in all of that is that it is (was) a standard US Army rifle.

Fully automatic, single shot (newer triple-burst / single-shot variants aren't called M16s), jams more than the exceptional AK-47 (which is like saying that your car is slower than the space shuttle on reentry), and the sights are just fine - believe me. :)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 27, 2003, 08:08:22 pm: m-4 carbine right?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: neo_hermes on May 27, 2003, 11:29:33 pm: Thou shall get back on topic
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 27, 2003, 11:45:32 pm: the topic was arnav's return right?
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 28, 2003, 01:18:45 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

:wtf: Only thing right in all of that is that it is (was) a standard US Army rifle.

Fully automatic, single shot (newer triple-burst / single-shot variants aren't called M16s), jams more than the exceptional AK-47 (which is like saying that your car is slower than the space shuttle on reentry), and the sights are just fine - believe me. :)

That's detailed intel.....sir.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 28, 2003, 01:45:50 am: Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
m-4 carbine right?

I think so, but don't quote me on that... I only ever used the Vietnam-era M16 that we have tons of.

Quote
Originally posted by Razor

That's detailed intel.....sir.

Yeah - on the most widely-used (I'm guesstimating) automatic rifle in the world. :D
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Tiara on May 28, 2003, 02:14:11 am: Quote
United States Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16A1
Adopted: 1967
Length: 986mm (38.80")
Weight, empty: 2.89kg (6.35 lbs.)
Caliber: 5.56mm Ball M193
Muzzle Velocity: 975mps (3200FPS)
Single shot

(http://www.csmetall-werkes.com/images/Colt%20M16A1.jpg)

Above is the oldest version of the M16 used by the US.

Below is the newest version of the M16 in use by the US:
Quote
United States Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16A4
Adopted: ???
Length: 1000mm (39.37")
Weight: 3.77kg (8.30 lbs.)
Caliber: 5.56mm NATO Ball M855
Muzzle Velocity: 945mps (3100FPS)
Single shot OR 3-round bursts

(http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csi/sam16a4.jpg)

Ofcourse there are enough spinoffs but this is only about the mainstream M16's.

Used quotes to show the difference better.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Darkage on May 28, 2003, 02:46:51 am: (http://www.posterservice.com/bigpics/16b.jpg)

Much more effecient means of killing people:D
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: kasperl on May 28, 2003, 08:03:03 am: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

:wtf: Only thing right in all of that is that it is (was) a standard US Army rifle.

Fully automatic, single shot (newer triple-burst / single-shot variants aren't called M16s), jams more than the exceptional AK-47 (which is like saying that your car is slower than the space shuttle on reentry), and the sights are just fine - believe me. :)

ok, i can't argue with real life expierence on the reloiability, but i heard US army personnel say that they'd take an AK over and M-16 anytime.
and about the burst, the now standard weapon is the M16-A2, wihc as burst and single, and no auto.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Razor on May 28, 2003, 09:00:27 am: Quote
Originally posted by Darkage
(http://www.posterservice.com/bigpics/16b.jpg)

Much more effecient means of killing people:D

And most prohibited. :p :ha:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: TrashMan on May 28, 2003, 09:57:10 am: I read that the M4A1 is the new "the" rifle for the US forces.
Far shorter with tons of cool add-ons. Better in every way...

O, hell - just gimme a minigun or OCIAWS and I'll be happy!:mad2:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 28, 2003, 04:06:34 pm: Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
I read that the M4A1 is the new "the" rifle for the US forces.
Far shorter with tons of cool add-ons. Better in every way...

O, hell - just gimme a minigun or OCIAWS and I'll be happy!:mad2:

...drool... (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Tiara on May 28, 2003, 04:13:54 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

...drool... (http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html)

Are they supposed to be those colors (blue and green)? If so, they are ugly :p Black rifle are better.

Firearms fashion! :D
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 28, 2003, 04:14:52 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

Above is the oldest version of the M16 used by the US.

Below is the newest version of the M16 in use by the US:

Ofcourse there are enough spinoffs but this is only about the mainstream M16's.

Used quotes to show the difference better.

A few "corrections" here... we used the M16A4 quite widely as a sharpshooter rifle. I can't see the picture, but the length is correct - exactly one meter. Anyway, the safety has "safe", "semi", and "auto" positions. Now perhaps internal parts can be switched out to change it to a 3-round burst, but I've never seen those.

Anyway, the original M16 has the exact same 3 safety positions, safe, semi, and auto, as well - I don't know where you got your info on it being a single shot only, but it's wrong. :)

Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

Are they supposed to be those colors (blue and green)? If so, they are ugly :p Black rifle are better.

Firearms fashion! :D

The blue is only from blue lights in that first pic - you can see in the bottom pic where the IDF Chief of Staff is firing his new Tavor, that it is black and dark green. Most likely the green parts are the lightweight plastic parts. :)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Flaser on May 28, 2003, 05:00:51 pm: Rifles are "nice:wtf:" toys for grown ups, but they offer little assurance to survive a battle - they only fire, but they don't deflect bullets.
A mech is nice - my second choice of weapon, why 2.? You'll see... - it has a devastating firepower and extreme armor that crowns it the king of any battlefield.
Provided there's a battle - that's where nukes come into play...
(if anyone ever fires a strategic warhead I'm gonna swear to kill the responsible - serious. Hiroshima, Nagasaki - no more is ever to happen. I even consider banning tac-nukes as well.)

Even that's not the ultimate answer however...
However if it were up to me I'd take this baby:
(http://users.freestart.hu/szandtner/ne03.jpg)
It's not my own unit though...
Nothing beats an S2 equiped, jet-black, Evangelion created form Lucifer's DNA strands, fitted with a flightsystem for mobility.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 28, 2003, 05:04:32 pm: Tanks are inherently superior combat platforms to mechs. Reduced frontal armor, increased traction and the ability to carry heavier weapons all favor the tank.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Sandwich on May 28, 2003, 05:29:16 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Tanks are inherently superior combat platforms to mechs. Reduced frontal armor, increased traction and the ability to carry heavier weapons all favor the tank.

Actually, fiction aside, if they ever get a real mech-like combat prototype working like it should, it'd be quite an amazing piece of work. There's nothing like appendages with which to climb over obstacles, and the armor and weaponry level is purely dependant on the strength of the leg material. Honeycomb/bird bone it, and you'd have a sweet setup. ;)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 28, 2003, 06:08:35 pm: it depends on the mech design (locomotion wise) 4-legged mechs wouldn't be too hard to make, but bipedial mechs would be a ***** to get balanced and if they fall over - you're screwed...
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Flaser on May 28, 2003, 06:10:11 pm: There are lot of types of mech or mecha
-You've got your run of a mile giant robot *most unlikely* with slow movement and high firepower
-Then there's the mech - the slow IS mechs that are truly at the mercy of airpower, or faster Clan mechs that have a lot more power
-Other mecha like from Full Metal Panic - they are faster and more agile, but lack built in weaponry
-Mobile Suits from gundam universe - those humanoid mechas simply spend more time in the air than on groun - on the other hand they were developed for space combat
-Veritech fighters from Battletech - the ultimate mecha. It can fly as a plan, fly and figth like a mech, and fight like a true mech

MS and Veritech on the other hand sported hand held weaponry and extreme manuveribility. The slow Battletech Mechs are more realistic with their crude weapons and simple controls - a neurohelmet is more likely a feasible way to drive a walking monster than a hundred levelers.

The main reason for using mechs would be their agility - your tank can be fast, but it can't dodge bullets.
The second reason is their arnament - if you can build something suited to take out anything at see, land or air....

About Evangelions I mentioned - they are not actually mechs - they are cloned and controlled versions of the alien entities refered to as Angels. They have an AT field that can widstand even a nuclear blast - like a kind of force field.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 28, 2003, 06:10:44 pm: Okay... so how did all this even START?!
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 28, 2003, 06:12:38 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Actually, fiction aside, if they ever get a real mech-like combat prototype working like it should, it'd be quite an amazing piece of work. There's nothing like appendages with which to climb over obstacles, and the armor and weaponry level is purely dependant on the strength of the leg material. Honeycomb/bird bone it, and you'd have a sweet setup. ;)
Ah, the old 'mechs can carry as much as a tank' argument. I've seen it before. ;)

Alright, so you have your sixty ton mech, same weight as a tank. How big do you think it'd be? Ten meters tall? Fifteen? Assume it's the same width as a tank.

That's a hell of a lot more frontal area. Sure, you might has thirty tons of armor like a tank, but it'd be spread over a much wider area. For a vehicle that weights the same as a tank and presumably is supposed to serve the same roles, you'll have something that is far more vulnerable to heavy weapons. At the same time you have some sort of main gun, which is placed on the arm, I suppose. So you'd have an extremely high off-centre recoil which is acting against a, relatively speaking, flimsy piece of vehicle. It'd be like firing a .50cal sniper rifle one-handed. BAD idea.

Furthermore, running is a less efficient motive form than rolling, and requires more moving parts, which means weak spots and maintenance problems.

So, what do you want to use this for again? Crawling over rubble? Seems rather overspecialised.

Sorry, but when you bring realism in, mechs are not effective. Impressive feats of engineering yes, useful combat vehicle no.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 28, 2003, 06:15:18 pm: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Shrike on May 28, 2003, 06:15:23 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Flaser
The main reason for using mechs would be their agility - your tank can be fast, but it can't dodge bullets.
The second reason is their arnament - if you can build something suited to take out anything at see, land or air....
Oh, come on.

You honestly expect to dodge a kinetic penetrator going at 1.6 km/s+? You've been watching the matrix too much. ;)

Furthermore, making a mech 'agile' would impose far too many stresses on its frame, stresses which would have to be compensated for and thus taking away from its role - blowing stuff up and not getting blown up in return.

You don't dodge on the modern battlefield, you either don't get seen or you absorb what gets shot at you.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: SKYNET-011 on May 28, 2003, 06:15:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Arnav
Okay... so how did all this even START?!

Something about communism.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 28, 2003, 06:20:22 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Oh, come on.

You honestly expect to dodge a kinetic penetrator going at 1.6 km/s+? You've been watching the matrix too much. ;)

Furthermore, making a mech 'agile' would impose far too many stresses on its frame, stresses which would have to be compensated for and thus taking away from its role - blowing stuff up and not getting blown up in return.

You don't dodge on the modern battlefield, you either don't get seen or you absorb what gets shot at you.

that and tanks have a lower target profile...
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 28, 2003, 06:20:26 pm: Never mind that the big reason why mechs would never survive in combat is illustrated quite well in that most scientifically useless of movies, Star Wars. It's an old, old trick in the guerilla warfare book to use greased black cables strung at angles to drive cars off the road, it doesn't take rocket science to apply that to tipping over mechs. Never mind that one landmine or well-aimed explosive of any sort would be enough to finish it permanently, while for tanks that means generally just a replacement tread. Well, depending on the yield and where it gets it, but a 100% higher survivability rate. More, really, since 100% higher than zero is still zero.

Anyway. For my money, you can stick with a classic (http://www.dsarms.com/catalog-list.cfm?Category=01&Subcat=SA58%20Tactical%20Series&storeid=1).

;7
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 28, 2003, 06:22:32 pm: it's more likely that mechs would be used for civilian purposes... (ala Aliens Powerloader - okay it's an exosuit but you get my point)
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Grey Wolf on May 28, 2003, 07:01:28 pm: Realistically, mechs are most likely not viable. Exosuits, on the other hand, make far more sense. A good deal cheaper, and even thought they'd be far smaller and far more vulnerable than the full mechs, they'd still perform better, and possibly move faster, than a normal human.

A good example of an exosuit like I am picturing would be like the Skins in the book "Fallen Dragon". Improved strength, built in weaponry, armor, and life-support systems. But most definitely not invincible.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Flaser on May 28, 2003, 07:10:04 pm: I never said that a convetional robot would have any chance to survive battle.
What I speak of is monster of technology that can jump meters into the air, do 180 degrees in a split second and can carry a 400mm gun just like a rifle.
IMHO what sets a mech apart from a tank is just the legs.
A mech can traverse over rough terrain - jungle war? - and can change its direction faster and can aim faster. Mechs are not for open space warfare.
AS for that rope thing - can you do that with a tank? - a mech weighs almost as much. One more thing - maybe it can...get up?
Mines - definitly nasty - but the same goes for tanks, what can knock out a mech is likely to do the same to a tank.

Realistically we're lighyears away from developing any viable mech - same goes for powerarmors/exo-suits.

[EDIT]
We should get back on the actual issue of the thread - if this mecha thing is serious, some one should simply make another thread.
[/EDIT]
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Arnav on May 28, 2003, 07:11:28 pm: *Collapses from exhaustion of actually trying to find offers of help within these posts on MECHS?*
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: vyper on May 28, 2003, 07:15:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Arnav
Fascinating discussion guys :), but I really *do* need help for TS2.

Need voice acting?:nervous:
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 28, 2003, 07:15:47 pm: you really have been away for too long....

this is just normality...
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Knight Templar on May 28, 2003, 08:20:48 pm: -nevermind-

I hate literates....
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Stryke 9 on May 28, 2003, 08:26:54 pm: The kind he specified, most likely.
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 28, 2003, 08:27:35 pm: mission designers...
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: TrashMan on May 29, 2003, 05:43:23 am: If I had to choose rifles, I'd go for the OCIAWS (20mm sniper + 9mm machinegun + granade launcher in one).

As for mechs...either a Veritech or this:
(http://www.escaflowneonline.com/images/01-13.jpg)

What I find stupid in 99% of all robot cartoons/series is the control method. I mean, controling a humanoid robot (head, legs, arms (with fingers!) + all the lasers, cannon and other stuff) with 2 joysticks and several buttons!!!:wtf:

Talk about stupidity.

*A shield capable of withstanding a nuke? Stupidity....
Action = reaction. The shield itself should then produce more power than a nuke!
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Turnsky on May 29, 2003, 05:49:09 am: it's OICW (Objective individual Combat Weapon - i think)
(http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/military/1998/9/army_wonder_weapon/images/tb_40076_1.jpg)
(http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/military/1998/9/army_wonder_weapon/images/tb_40076_2.jpg)

i'll bet sandwich would want one:p
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: TrashMan on May 29, 2003, 06:34:45 am: Yeah, that's it.... I misspeled it..was allso thinking of the CAWS shotgun....
But nothing beats the OICW....

Well, allmost nothing:
ESCAFLOWNE....;7
Title: I abase myself before thee...
Post by: Flaser on May 29, 2003, 07:20:54 am: Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
If I had to choose rifles, I'd go for the OCIAWS (20mm sniper + 9mm machinegun + granade launcher in one).

As for mechs...either a Veritech or this:
(http://www.escaflowneonline.com/images/01-13.jpg)

What I find stupid in 99% of all robot cartoons/series is the control method. I mean, controling a humanoid robot (head, legs, arms (with fingers!) + all the lasers, cannon and other stuff) with 2 joysticks and several buttons!!!:wtf:

Talk about stupidity.

*A shield capable of withstanding a nuke? Stupidity....
Action = reaction. The shield itself should then produce more power than a nuke!

Actually it does - more than a couple of nukes.
The S2 has so much power - it's method is beyond our understanding - that the first Angel melted the entire souther polarcap and sent the Earth's axis off course.
BTW ordinary Evangelions are powered by an umbilical cable - and most Evas or Angels can not witstand a nuke, but with the S2 it is possible.

We should take this out of this thread, and make another one if we want to keep discussing it...
Making it now