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Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Inferno => Topic started by: Woolie Wool on June 04, 2003, 06:45:21 pm

Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 04, 2003, 06:45:21 pm
I don't mean to insult or offend anyone, but many of the Inferno spacecraft, especially fighters and bombers, look crude and ungainly, maybe because many of them are incomplete. They just don't look "right" in the way the FS2 models are--the models don't really have that perfect harmony to the proportions and appearance that makes the whole ship seem attractive as a whole (apparently Volition didn't understand either when it made the SB Shaitan). Compare the SB Vindhyachal to the SB Nahema or the Vesuvius to the Apollo or Myrmidon and you'll see what I mean. Many of the larger fighters and bombers look cartoonish, like well-designed ships that were bastardized by the modeler's desire to make the thing "cooler" by tacking on 10 billion guns and engines and what not. The SOF Chaos and the GTB Sabus look like caricatures of fighters and bombers with their piles of tacked on guns and engines. The ships just don't have that "rightness" to them, that elusive trait that's all but impossible to describe but so essential.

Maybe that's why I sketched a ship and scrapped 8 different designs before completing a drawing--when I drew them, they didn't look right.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Rampage on June 05, 2003, 07:40:57 am
Hmm...  Inferno uses an amalgamation of different models made by MODders from all across HLP.  One MODder may have a completely distinct taste in comparison to another.

The cartoonish characteristics of many Terran fighters come from the fact that their textures are cartoonish. (Most were made by Aldo.)
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 05, 2003, 10:38:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Rampage
Hmm...  Inferno uses an amalgamation of different models made by MODders from all across HLP.  One MODder may have a completely distinct taste in comparison to another.

The cartoonish characteristics of many Terran fighters come from the fact that their textures are cartoonish. (Most were made by Aldo.)


I'm mostly talking about the shapes. A real bomber wouldn't have 15 engines sticking out everywhere.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 05, 2003, 11:02:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


I'm mostly talking about the shapes. A real bomber wouldn't have 15 engines sticking out everywhere.

:wtf: the most engines our bombers have are 4. i have no idea where your getting that many from.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Stunaep on June 05, 2003, 11:31:01 am
I've got no problem with the meshes, they look excellent.

What you can obviously understand, what I frickin' hate are the textures on most ships. Hell, I could probably make a better texture job on some of those ships in less than five minutes!
[edit]
I'm looking through the INF database once more, and I'm surprised how consistent and good the meshes and textures of the fighters and bombers are.

And then it all falls down with the capships.
[edit2]
and then there's the Durja....:doubt:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 05, 2003, 12:36:59 pm
The 15 number is an exaggeration used to emphasize my point that some of the bombers look ridiculous:

http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/INFV4/tech/techsabus.jpg
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: SadisticSid on June 05, 2003, 02:27:56 pm
That's one engine with six exhaust ports. The Sabus does look pretty nice in-game. At least give us the benefit of the doubt until you've played the game (which, God willing, will be fairly soon). The screenshots don't do a lot our ships justice.

Sid.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 05, 2003, 03:22:45 pm
Well Woolie Wool, Stunaep, and anyone else, this campaign is designed to be moddable. If you want to reskin any ships we've already released, we'll put them on the INF archives. Then if people want to replace them they can.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Rampage on June 05, 2003, 05:27:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
The 15 number is an exaggeration used to emphasize my point that some of the bombers look ridiculous:

http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/INFV4/tech/techsabus.jpg


If you don't know yet, it's Aldo's trademark to make Terran strike crafts with auxiliary engines sticking out on the sides with long extension arms.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 05, 2003, 07:10:51 pm
Some of the Vasudan and Shivan bombers have the opposite problem--where do you put the bombs? The spindly hulls don't have room for ordinance!

By the way, I thought the SF Hydra was the best-looking of the new ships. Some red glowing areas and darker dark gray on the "lizard head" front section wouldn't hurt though, and please make the "eyes" glow red. It would look great.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 06, 2003, 01:57:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Some of the Vasudan and Shivan bombers have the opposite problem--where do you put the bombs? The spindly hulls don't have room for ordinance!

By the way, I thought the SF Hydra was the best-looking of the new ships. Some red glowing areas and darker dark gray on the "lizard head" front section wouldn't hurt though, and please make the "eyes" glow red. It would look great.


you're talking about bad tastes in ships and you want to give eyes to the Hydra? geez. I agree that the main hull could use more variations tho. But hey, the thing is at least two years old now, couldn't do that good back then.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 06, 2003, 04:33:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Some of the Vasudan and Shivan bombers have the opposite problem--where do you put the bombs? The spindly hulls don't have room for ordinance!


Actually the only bomber that has this problem is the petbe, but that can't even carry the cyclops bomb. The rest do have enough space, and I'm not making massive bombers so it looks like they have tons of space for bombs



Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
By the way, I thought the SF Hydra was the best-looking of the new ships. Some red glowing areas and darker dark gray on the "lizard head" front section wouldn't hurt though, and please make the "eyes" glow red. It would look great.


:wtf: really?
No offense to Venom but the Hydra is our worst Shivan fighter, The Gorgon is far better looking, and so are the Chimera and Serpent.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 06, 2003, 06:22:35 am
no offense taken, was a 10 minutes job :p ( a request ) ( but I think it's better than the serpent tho, which for me is the worst one ).
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 06, 2003, 06:23:58 am
Plus I know you can do far better now :D
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 06, 2003, 11:22:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woomeister

:wtf: really?
No offense to Venom but the Hydra is our worst Shivan fighter, The Gorgon is far better looking, and so are the Chimera and Serpent.


I meant what I said. I love the Hydra. The Gorgon is too spindly and I can't find the cockpit anywhere (on a semi-related note, if you add eyes to the Hydra, you can say they're optical sensors that allow the pilot to actually see out of the thing), the Chimera is too weird for me (and I thought the Nephlim was unconventional), and the Serpent is a hideous ship that disgraces the attractive Basilisk it is based on.

I beg you to put the Hydra up for download! PLEASE!
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 06, 2003, 11:35:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


1) I meant what I said. I love the Hydra.
2) The Gorgon is too spindly and I can't find the cockpit anywhere 3) (on a semi-related note, if you add eyes to the Hydra, you can say they're optical sensors that allow the pilot to actually see out of the thing),
4) the Chimera is too weird for me (and I thought the Nephlim was unconventional),
5) and the Serpent is a hideous ship that disgraces the attractive Basilisk it is based on.

I beg you to put the Hydra up for download! PLEASE!


1) well, nothing to say on that, your right, I like it too
2) I think it's great. anyway, I challenge you to find the cockpit on any Volition shivan fighter. you could tell me that, for exemple, it's the front end on the Mara, and I'd just ask an evidence it's the case
3) keep on dreaming, I'll never put eyes on the hydra, that's so cliché, I'm not doing Barbarella ships, thank you :p
4) weird? it's symétrical, and quite geometric... it's quite common design if you ask me.
5) yeah, I agree, the serpent is crap. then again, it's a volition design and a request, so I can't really be blamed :p ( well, save for the lousy texture job, probably :nervous: )
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 06, 2003, 12:20:10 pm
2. The Gorgons one of the best Shivan fighters I've seen.
3. It would look really stuipid with eyes.
4. :wtf: the Chimera is weird and you want eyes on the hydra? :wtf:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Tiara on June 06, 2003, 12:27:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woomeister
:wtf: the Chimera is weird and you want eyes on the hydra? :wtf:

An eye on a ship is cool! :thepimp:  (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15304.0.html)
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 06, 2003, 12:32:13 pm
Not for the Hydra :p
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 06, 2003, 02:29:14 pm
Just remember that the forward surfaces of Shivan ships usually have red areas where you'd expect windows to be. Take a look at the "cockpit" areas of many Shivan ships that seem to lack viewports--The Dragon has two red strips, the Manticore and Basilisk each have a broad band of red, the Shaitan has three vertical lines, the red stripe that goes around the Scorpion's main pod goes across the cockpit, the Nephilim has a red glowing opening, the Mara, Aeshma, and Astaroth have a patch of red at the bow of the ship, the Seraphim has a glowing red line, and the cap ships all have red "bridge" areas. The only real exceptions are the Rakshasa (no apparent bridge), and the Nahema (the Shivans fitted windows to it). What are all these red areas for? Could it be that these areas contain sensor equipment so Mr. 8-Foot Overgrown Spider inside can see out of the ship? I'm being a bit unfair here. I like many of your ships (the Hydra, Arachnas, and Banshee in particular). I was really nitpicking there, but every little detail makes it that much more immersive.

Inferno is one of the best ship mods out there. It's a refreshing break from your average Manticore-sized GTF Whatever superfighter with 10000 shields capable of 250 m/s without afterburner and capable of firing Kaysers from 16 gun mounts steadily on Very Hard without running out of weapons power and holding 500 Helios Bombs, or some cruiser with 10 million hitpoints and 20 BFReds.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: phreak on June 07, 2003, 11:01:16 am
except the gigas has 10 million hitpoints and 20 BFReds.  But it fits with its size ;7
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: SadisticSid on June 07, 2003, 12:02:50 pm
Phreak, that's a gross understatement. 3 billion hitpoints and 12 anti-fleet guns. ('Anti-fleet' because it could lance a few destroyers with a single beam...)

EDIT: D'oh! I thought we were talking about the Gargant there. Disregard. :p

Sid.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: phreak on June 07, 2003, 12:09:52 pm
maybe i should update my files then ;)
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Sobek on June 07, 2003, 01:27:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Just remember that the forward surfaces of Shivan ships usually have red areas where you'd expect windows to be. Take a look at the "cockpit" areas of many Shivan ships that seem to lack viewports--The Dragon has two red strips, the Manticore and Basilisk each have a broad band of red, the Shaitan has three vertical lines, the red stripe that goes around the Scorpion's main pod goes across the cockpit, the Nephilim has a red glowing opening, the Mara, Aeshma, and Astaroth have a patch of red at the bow of the ship, the Seraphim has a glowing red line, and the cap ships all have red "bridge" areas. The only real exceptions are the Rakshasa (no apparent bridge), and the Nahema (the Shivans fitted windows to it). What are all these red areas for? Could it be that these areas contain sensor equipment so Mr. 8-Foot Overgrown Spider inside can see out of the ship? I'm being a bit unfair here. I like many of your ships (the Hydra, Arachnas, and Banshee in particular). I was really nitpicking there, but every little detail makes it that much more immersive.
 


Quick comment:
a race as advanced as the shivans has really no need for windows. The red glowy bits could be just part of their design scheme, or they are some sort of tech aplication, like for them that could be how their shields are projected around the ship...

Anyways enough speculation on that topic, shivans are shivans and they don't need to be "humanfied"...
Just my two cents...
btw, great job guys, and keep it up.:nod:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 07, 2003, 09:05:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by SadisticSid


EDIT: D'oh! I thought we were talking about the Gargant there. Disregard. :p

Sid.


What is the Gargant supposed to be (no real tech description) and how big is it (length, width, and height in meters)?

/me shudders at the idea of such a powerful warship
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Mr. Vega on June 07, 2003, 09:45:23 pm
I think the ships just look less Freespace-like.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Knight Templar on June 07, 2003, 10:28:54 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


What is the Gargant supposed to be (no real tech description) and how big is it (length, width, and height in meters)?

/me shudders at the idea of such a powerful warship


A powerful Warship. 40 Km long (give or take a few klicks)
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 07, 2003, 10:46:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar


A powerful Warship. 40 Km long (give or take a few klicks)


How the hell are you supposed to blow up a ship that is 2/3 as long as the whole map and has 3 billion hitpoints?
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Knight Templar on June 07, 2003, 11:25:02 pm
I don't recall ever hearing anything about blowing it up...
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Galemp on June 07, 2003, 11:25:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


How the hell are you supposed to blow up a ship that is 2/3 as long as the whole map and has 3 billion hitpoints?


I guess we'll find out. :D
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 08, 2003, 01:21:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
I don't recall ever hearing anything about blowing it up...


So you're just gonna let a 40km megaship run around and obliterate every sentinent being in the galaxy?
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Knight Templar on June 08, 2003, 02:00:45 am
We'll let it do whatever it wants.


Besides, there's always a bigger fish...
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woolie Wool on June 08, 2003, 04:31:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
We'll let it do whatever it wants.


Besides, there's always a bigger fish...


Jesus Christ, not an even bigger one!:hopping:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 08, 2003, 05:30:25 am
there's always a way around, you know. how can a Xwing destroy a deathstar ( which is much bigger than a gargant) ? how could the GTVA get rid of 80 sathanas (no proof it really did anything good, granted )? how come "add another exemple like the two aboves here"?
voila, until you know the plot, you can speculate as much as you want, but you can't judge :p
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: J.F.K. on June 08, 2003, 07:38:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Vega
I think the ships just look less Freespace-like.


I think it's a good sign. Diversification of the universe, development of original design principles. I don't think things like Inferno are meant to exist in the same time period as the Capella campaign anyway.
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 08, 2003, 07:55:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
What is the Gargant supposed to be (no real tech description) and how big is it (length, width, and height in meters)?

/me shudders at the idea of such a powerful warship


Gargants ships.tbl tech description:
"Quite what the Gargant's purpose is remains a mystery to the Alliance. All tactical data on this virtually impervious ship has been classified"

Sizes in m:
16800*9770*37814

110 turrets, making it the most heavily armed warship in the campaign.



Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Jesus Christ, not an even bigger one!

The largest Shivan thing is the SI Hara which has about twice the mass of the Gargant.


Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
I don't think things like Inferno are meant to exist in the same time period as the Capella campaign anyway.

66 years later
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Knight Templar on June 08, 2003, 11:32:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


Jesus Christ, not an even bigger one!:hopping:


nah, i'm just ****ing with ya. settle down..
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: StarGunner on June 13, 2003, 12:48:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar


nah, i'm just ****ing with ya. settle down..


The ship sizes and stuff these people are pouting out are just staggering! no offence but if you ask me these dudes are completly Insane, and NUTS! And when faceing the Insane just let em go theres nothing you can do to stop em, we humans like to think we can to give us a false sence of securtiy. Nevermined me, knowone ever takes note of what I say anyway :rolleyes:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 13, 2003, 04:17:26 pm
and knowone is right :p
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 14, 2003, 07:58:22 am
Now this is nuts:
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/gigasfleet2.jpg)

:D
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: J.F.K. on June 14, 2003, 11:34:31 pm
Geez, what would it be like watching that jump in ahead of you? :eek2:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 15, 2003, 05:29:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
Geez, what would it be like watching that jump in ahead of you? :eek2:


would be like seeing nothing but white, I guess, like in derelict when the knossos jumps in ( I still believe it's completly stupid to have a jumping jumpgate btw :p )
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Tiara on June 15, 2003, 05:33:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
Geez, what would it be like watching that jump in ahead of you? :eek2:

If you are in a fighter they'd probably ignore ya :p
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Tiara on June 15, 2003, 05:34:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
( I still believe it's completly stupid to have a jumping jumpgate btw :p )

:wtf: Did I miss something? A jumping jump gate :lol:
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Woomeister on June 15, 2003, 07:01:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
Geez, what would it be like watching that jump in ahead of you? :eek2:

Probably would crash my system, was pushing it a bit with those 50 just sitting there :D
Title: Inferno ships
Post by: Nico on June 15, 2003, 07:37:42 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara

:wtf: Did I miss something? A jumping jump gate :lol:


didn't play derelict? :)
it was good, but also had quite a few flaws, and, well, that gate was one of them :p