Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Nuke on June 09, 2003, 12:49:07 am
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i downloaded gmax, and although no one wants to pay all the licensing fees to make an fs2 game pack, i noticed that it allows you no save in a format called plasma, which suposidly is a microsoft directx format thnie. could it be possible to upgrade pof tools to use this format? that way gmax could become an unofficial mod tool.
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That would rule. period.
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Anything wrong with 3ds max venom? ;)
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well 3ds would be fine, but gmax doesnt save in it. 3dsmax costs a few thosand bucks, but gmax is free. now if someone knew the specs on the *.gmax format we could have a *.gmax to pof converter, but i think that format is bound by the gmax license and cant be leagally used. plasma on the other hand is a microsoft format, which is probibly part of the d3d sdk. eighter way, i just want to ba able to use gmax to create stuff that can be converted directly to pof, withought going through additional conversion tools which cause scaling problems, model coruption and other side effect..
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Originally posted by Nuke
well 3ds would be fine, but gmax doesnt save in it. 3dsmax costs a few thosand bucks, but gmax is free. now if someone knew the specs on the *.gmax format we could have a *.gmax to pof converter, but i think that format is bound by the gmax license and cant be leagally used. plasma on the other hand is a microsoft format, which is probibly part of the d3d sdk. eighter way, i just want to ba able to use gmax to create stuff that can be converted directly to pof, withought going through additional conversion tools which cause scaling problems, model coruption and other side effect..
That sounds cool. But I still think the SCP guys should when they are done (?) with the FS SC, start work on Blender to make it an official moding tool. It is open source now so they could add stuff like a POF exporter or COB. As well as making a better texturing GUI. But thats allot of work.
*goes and starts reading "C++ for dummies" again*
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Ab-so-lutely!
Blender is the easiest modeler I've ever encountered.
It's intuitive, so it's newbie friendly. If it was as easy to model in GMax or TrueSpace as easily as it is in Blender, there would be a lot more modelers out there!
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absolutly not. Gmax is way better, why using a low-end prog?
and it's darn easy modeling in (G)max, so no excuses.
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Originally posted by Venom
absolutly not. Gmax is way better, why using a low-end prog?
and it's darn easy modeling in (G)max, so no excuses.
Well I think blender is the way to go. I think it just needs more file exporter options (i.e. cob) and maybe better uv mapper/texture functions.
Also Blender was the only 3D program that was able to run on my mom's computer decently, tS was slow and lightwave took forever to start. Blender is less then 2MB while gmax is way more, so it's frienly for 56Kers.
So why is Blender so bad? If you say it's the GUI, have you looked at lightwave or tS lately?
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I have looked at TS and LW, yeah, and I don't like them. And I like max and won't support blender. you see, it's a matter of taste, you like blender and you support it, and I'm for max. max is easy to use, as great UV mapping tools, you can animate with it ( who knows, that might be useful some day with the SCP ), Gmax is free, etc etc. Gmax is better, that's it.
as for 56k, well, use a d/l manager, that's all. you see problems, I see solutions :p
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Meh, I don't model a lot but I found Gmax far less confusing the either Blender or LW (though LW had its charms). I'm a n00b when it comes to moddeling but Gmax has my vote.
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Originally posted by Venom
I have looked at TS and LW, yeah, and I don't like them. And I like max and won't support blender. you see, it's a matter of taste, you like blender and you support it, and I'm for max. max is easy to use, as great UV mapping tools, you can animate with it ( who knows, that might be useful some day with the SCP ), Gmax is free, etc etc. Gmax is better, that's it.
as for 56k, well, use a d/l manager, that's all. you see problems, I see solutions :p
GREAT UV MAPPING TOOL?! Is there such a thing? :p
My new job is going to have broadband internet so I'll download and try it. What plugins/add-ons would you suggest I also get?
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Originally posted by Venom
absolutly not. Gmax is way better, why using a low-end prog?
and it's darn easy modeling in (G)max, so no excuses.
[color=66ff00]You're going to have to give me lessons dude, Gmax is a pain in the arse compared to Rhino, IMHO of course. :nod:
BTW you can already save all models in quake format (using the toolset they wrote) which can be converted into COB using a number of programs. I've already used it to export a mesh after I UV mapped it.
(Just in case this format is useable).
BTW GMax is compatible with the rather excellent chilliskinner script which allows you to make good planar UVmaps.
[/color]
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gmax is most definitly a wonderful modeler. I've tried all 3 (blender, ts, and gmax) and I only use TS because I don't want to go through conversion hell. I didn't like blender because it didn't have the degree of control that I like (it probably does, I just didn't find it before I found TS) And yes, gmax does have an excelent UV mapping tool.
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Originally posted by HotSnoJ
GREAT UV MAPPING TOOL?! Is there such a thing? :p
yes. there's a few, in fact. the normal UVW mapper, and the unwrapper. in the latest versions of max ( especially in max5, and I assume in Gmax ), they're about perfect. how do you think I can map a cruiser like the one posted in the inferno forum in less than 3 hours? ( well, 1.5 and 1.5 hours of work, on two days )
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*points* (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15420.0.html)
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Funny, IMO, Lightwave has the best layout I've yet worked with, which includes, gmax, 3dsmax, blender, truespace(3 and 4.2), and rhino
See, 3ds max is for those that learn graphically, if you like pressing little lightbulbs and other buttons, its for you. I personally don't like all that clutter, just give me text telling me what the tool does.
To each his own, as they say.
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T|2u3 Zp4C3 0\/\/nZ jo0
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Originally posted by DragonClaw
Funny, IMO, Lightwave has the best layout I've yet worked with, which includes, gmax, 3dsmax, blender, truespace(3 and 4.2), and rhino
See, 3ds max is for those that learn graphically, if you like pressing little lightbulbs and other buttons, its for you. I personally don't like all that clutter, just give me text telling me what the tool does.
To each his own, as they say.
Maya is a bit of both (at least version 4.5 is). I didn't use it much but I did do a short 10 second animation and model in it back in December.
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Originally posted by DragonClaw
See, 3ds max is for those that learn graphically, if you like pressing little lightbulbs and other buttons, its for you. I personally don't like all that clutter, just give me text telling me what the tool does.
that would work if you actually tried max :rolleyes:
it's friggin text in max, I don't understand all that talk about icons and crap, all those are on the top bar, that you use about once a day. in max, you use the modifiers, etc. and when I want to create a target spot, the button is a bar with "target spot" written on it, not some crappy drawing, like you think to know. don't talk about what you obviously didn't try. I at least did try LW, I spent a night on it with Killmenow explaining it to me. Do the same :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Venom
that would work if you actually tried max :rolleyes:
it's friggin text in max, I don't understand all that talk about icons and crap, all those are on the top bar, that you use about once a day. in max, you use the modifiers, etc. and when I want to create a target spot, the button is a bar with "target spot" written on it, not some crappy drawing, like you think to know. don't talk about what you obviously didn't try. I at least did try LW, I spent a night on it with Killmenow explaining it to me. Do the same :rolleyes:
Well, when I _did_ try it, I was always pressing icons and that crap... when I wanted to add a light, I had to press a blasted lightbulb. Maybe this is only for 3ds Max 3, because thats what I was using. Not to mention it was freezing on me left and right... Only time I've had Lightwave crash on me is when my hard drive space was empty, or when I tried putting a sh*tload of polys in a single scene, or tried to put a 50,000x50,000(no exaggeration) texture on a sphere. Max constantly crashed on me, but I heard that the newer ones improve on that and that Max 3 is the most unstable of all of them.
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Originally posted by DragonClaw
Well, when I _did_ try it, I was always pressing icons and that crap... when I wanted to add a light, I had to press a blasted lightbulb. Maybe this is only for 3ds Max 3, because thats what I was using.
no, that's not only max3 I've used about all the max, from 1.2 to 5.1. you didn't try anything, so I won't bother replying.
( but yeah, max3 is by far the most unstable one, and you can't expect a warez version to be stable anyway, so it won't help. no pb like that with Gmax ).
and what's with the red?
it's goddam awful :p
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It might be illegal to do what Nuke suggested.
After all, Gmax was specifically designed to only work for certain games (which support .plasma models)
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just do the
gmax -> tempest -> 3dx to cob -> pof route
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Originally posted by Venom
1) you didn't try anything, so I won't bother replying.
2)and what's with the red?
it's goddam awful :p [/B]
1)Actually I did try a lot of stuff, I made a few renders with it, tried making beams with it(thats why I tried it in the first place, because I had trouble making beams with LW), and made the sh*ttiest Tie Fighter you've ever seen... and then my hard drive crashed and I had to format.
2)Hah, is this better? :p Colors pwnz j00!
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Originally posted by PhReAk
just do the
gmax -> tempest -> 3dx to cob -> pof route
to me, the interest of having a new converter is to get rid of the damn TS step.
Actually I did try a lot of stuff, I made a few renders with it, tried making beams with it(thats why I tried it in the first place, because I had trouble making beams with LW), and made the sh*ttiest Tie Fighter you've ever seen... and then my hard drive crashed and I had to format.
ok, just to be nice: get rid of the creation bar on the top ( you probably stuck to this, it's godamn useless, you can get rid of it ).
then in the right panel, you have the create tools ( a box tool is a button with "box" written on it, for exemple. but hargh! the horror, the creation panel isn't named "create"!!! there's a pic instead. it seems to make your mind bleed, so instead of using the right panel, just right click in a window. I think it's right click with alt hold down. if it's not alt, it's crtl or caps. can't remember, it just comes naturally when I use it. you'll get a pop-up menu with submenus and all, and it's 100% text allelujah!!!! )
there's so many different ways of using max, the one who criticizes the UI just didn't try, coz there's no way there's not one of the way that won't fit him.
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Got beams? (http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/6e0dd790/bc/My+Documents/Beams.bmp?bcPMS6.Ay834oB65)
Done in Max 5 in 2 minutes.
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truespace is a very low end proggie. and its limited features dont justify its pricetag. max on the other hand is what the pros use. i mastered truespace because of freespace. its high time i learn a new program. but i need a use for it first. im waiting on the combat flightsim 3 gamepack to come out, and i might do a couple planes for that (or just use my fs models).
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I remain in defense of Blender. I know of no other modeling package that makes it so easy to manipulate a polygonal model.
I downloaded GMax and was completely lost. I even went and got a tutorial, I was more confused after reading it than before.
The high end modeling packages have a very steep learning curve, requiring you to learn a lot of jargon just to be able to use them properly. Blender on the other hand has a much shallower learning curve, you only learn what you need to learn to do a specific task.
Ex. In TS 3.2 I can add a cube into the scene, I can rotate it, scale it's dimensions up and down, and even move it around. I'm at a loss as to how to extrude a particular face.
Part of this is due to poor program design, part is due to my general lack of talent, but a lot is due to the fact that TS, as well as 3DSM, Lightwave, and Maya, are actually animation packages that happen to make models.
With Blender on the other hand I can place a cube(press spacebar, select ADD, then MESH, then CUBE), I can rotate it(select it by pressing A and then press r), I can move it around(press g once) and scale it up or down(press s once). More over I can extrude a face or faces quite easily.
The reason for this is mainly due to the fact that Blender is a 3d polygonal modeling package with a limited animation suite thrown in on top of it.
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Originally posted by Liberator
With Blender on the other hand I can place a cube(press spacebar, select ADD, then MESH, then CUBE), I can rotate it(select it by pressing A and then press r), I can move it around(press g once) and scale it up or down(press s once). More over I can extrude a face or faces quite easily.
ok, why max owns blender even on simplicity. want to make a cube?
alt+ right click, create, cube, draw your cube in viewport ( like for any paint pro, hold caps down while drawing it will make all sizes proportional ).
want to scale it? right click, scale, use the gizmo.
want to move it? right click, move, use the gizmo.
don't need to learn two dozens keys for such basic things, thank you.
there's limits to bad faith, you know :p
of course the learning curve isn't the same. you're comparing a ruler with a computer, efficiency-wise, there.
oh, and:
"Part of this is due to poor program design, part is due to my general lack of talent, but a lot is due to the fact that TS, as well as 3DSM, Lightwave, and Maya, are actually animation packages that happen to make models"
3dsmax is the tool of choice for game makers for building low-poly meshes, and EASY modelling has always been the moto for selling Max.
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Originally posted by Venom
oh, and:
"Part of this is due to poor program design, part is due to my general lack of talent, but a lot is due to the fact that TS, as well as 3DSM, Lightwave, and Maya, are actually animation packages that happen to make models"
3dsmax is the tool of choice for game makers for building low-poly meshes, and EASY modelling has always been the moto for selling Max.
Besides which, If GMax isn't a modeller can someone tell me what it is for then? :lol:
Personally I find Truespace very easy to deal with. I can extrude any face I want to with ease.
Basically the best thing to do is download TS3.2, GMax, blender and the lighwave demo and play about with all of them. Then use whichever you find the easiest.
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i have mastered truespace, but i am still disatisfied with it. i like the features and interface of max, but i still cant do jack with it.
its like comparing mac os with linux, mac os is easy to use, but you cant do jack with it. linux is versitile, but you cant do jack with it, unless you know how.
its beter to start with something easy, master it, then go to the next level. but never assume that what you are using is the best of the best, it never is.
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Unfortunately as has been stated several times once you've learned to use a certain program you tend to stick with it.
I don't know why but in 3D modelling more than almost any other field I can thik of what you learn first is what you stick with.
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i dont like to follow the no advancement mentality. a pro always looks for new ways to do things to make their job easyer. once you lock into cycles of old ways. you become inflexable, something intolerable to any computer professional. never stop trying new ways to do things, i think i tried something new with every model ive done. never stop trying to improve your skills. if that means using a new program, then so be it. ive been trying to learn a program other than truespace, for obvious reasons.
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Originally posted by Nuke
ive been trying to learn a program other than truespace, for obvious reasons.
That's basically what I mean. Swapping from PSP to Photoshop probably won't take you more than a few days (if that!) cause most art packages from PSP all the way down to MS Paint work in a basically similar way.
Swapping from Truespace to 3DS Max or Lighwave is a completely different matter. Although your skills of knowing when to extrude or when to bevel to get the effect you want are still there you have to learn how to do it all over again. Very few people bother and instead use the time to become better with the program they started with.
If you're willing to go through the whole process of relearning another program good for you though :)
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i like max's modifyer system that lets you tweak your model in a mater similer to the layers in photoshop. but i still havent figured out how to work at the vertex level in max, the main thing holding me back (other than the fact that i dont have a copy of the real max). if a plasma to pof converter was made, id definately start modeling under gmax. once you learned program 1 and 2, learning 3 and 4 is a snap. i say learn as many modeling software packages as possible.
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when you're in editing mesh mode, push 1. voila, you're in vertex mode ;) ( push 2 for edge, 3 for face, 4 for polygon, 5 for element ).
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does the meshtools work for gmax too? i remember a lot of people telling me that without this plugin max was a little worse in modelling than other packages like LW or XSI
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heh? dunno what you're talking about.
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this is an old link from my bookmark (but since i don't have max i never looked deeply in this)
http://www.scriptspot.com/download.asp?ID=619&inf=1
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oh, I see. It doesn't really add anything, it just makes things a bit easier ( one click instead of two for most editing tools, stuff like that ). It's for lazy bums ;) ( nah, it's nice, but it really does not improve much on anything ).
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i figured enough out about gmax to create a simple model. i did figure out how to texture map under gmax, by far beter than truespace.