Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sandwich on June 11, 2003, 10:04:42 am
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Trying to find out about all my friends now...
http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/spages/302574.html
9 reported killed so far on the Israeli radio.
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At least 10 killed now... 40 light injuries, 4 medium, and 18 serious.
Damn.
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Explain to me again why they're fighting?
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Originally posted by an0n
Explain to me again why they're fighting?
Because we tried (and failed) to assassinate a Palestinain terrorist leader:
[q]Palestinian militants had threatened revenge
attacks after a failed Israeli assassination
attempt on Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi on
Tuesday. [/q]
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No, I mean in general.
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Big demonstration gathering at the site of the bombing, yelling out "Death to the Arabs!" and "Oslo Criminals to trial!".
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In general? Hatred. Racial, religious hatred - on both sides.
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first, my condolances, was there anybody you knew?
Originally posted by Sandwich
Because we tried (and failed) to assassinate a Palestinain terrorist leader:
so you agree if people call that an assassination?
i am curious, if you don't mind me asking, what you think of the whole roadmap idea.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Big demonstration gathering at the site of the bombing, yelling out "Death to the Arabs!" and "Oslo Criminals to trial!".
i don't quite get the Oslo part, and i think the first thing is just ridicoulous, but that's only my opinion.
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Don't know if there was anyone I knew - it was right in the middle of town, so there could easily be people I know, but I won't find out proabably for at least a day until they release the names.
Define assassination, really. We tried to kill a terrorist organization's leader. I support such acts, by the way.
As for the roadmap, I doubt it will improve things. But I don't really want to get into that now, in this thread.
They are prying open the bus doors right now.
And the death count is up to 13.
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well it's good to hear that you're alive S. I hope the same for your friends
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Originally posted by kasperl
i don't quite get the Oslo part, and i think the first thing is just ridicoulous, but that's only my opinion.
The Oslo accord is generally agreed to be the turning point for the current situation, and I agree with you on the death to arabs thing - generalization is wrong.
Death to the terrorists.
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i willl not go into a discussion on the conflict right now, not right after this, perhaps later.
anyway, i can only hope for those who are on that bus.
violence is never good, on niether sides.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
The Oslo accord is generally agreed to be the turning point for the current situation, and I agree with you on the death to arabs thing - generalization is wrong.
Death to the terrorists.
kinda agreed, but out here, that isreal attack on the spokesman is spoken about in the same tones as Palestine bombings.
and i can't say i disagree.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Big demonstration gathering at the site of the bombing, yelling out "Death to the Arabs!" and "Oslo Criminals to trial!".
Why do I get the incredibly ironic feeling that if peace is ever achieved it'll end up similar to the state of affairs following WW1.
Genocide is t3h funn4ge!!1111 :doubt:
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Originally posted by an0n
Why do I get the incredibly ironic feeling that if peace is ever achieved it'll end up similar to the state of affairs following WW1.
I failed history miserably... remind me what that was?
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The Germans signed the Treaty Of Versaille and junk, but having been pumped so full of "We're winning and we're right!" propaganda, the German people wouldn't accept that they'd lost. They began refering to the signatories of the treaty as the November Criminals. Hitler then used this to his advantage and rose to power, slaughtered the Jews and indirectly became the reason for the foundation of Israel.
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They just got the front bus doors open... 15 killed so far.
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Originally posted by an0n
The Germans signed the Treaty Of Versaille and junk, but having been pumped so full of "We're winning and we're right!" propaganda, the German people wouldn't accept that they'd lost. They began refering to the signatories of the treaty as the November Criminals. Hitler then used this to his advantage and rose to power, slaughtered the Jews and indirectly became the reason for the foundation of Israel.
Ahh. All I know is that in my army service, any time people began to chant "Death to the Arabs", it was put down immediately by the commanders and sergeants.
Reports of Israeli helicopters having attacked a Fiat of Hamas a leader (in the Gaza strip, I think), between 2-6 Palestinian casualties, Unclear if it was in response to the suicide bombing or not - it's quite a fast reaction if so - unbelieveably fast.
EDIT: over 80 wounded now, I missed the light/medium/serious count.
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Yes, so fast infact that a cycnical person may view it as pre-planned.
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Originally posted by an0n
Yes, so fast infact that a cycnical person may view it as pre-planned.
I have very little doubt of it being pre-planned, but I don't think it was set in motion in response to the bombing. It was probably a planned terrorist assassination of Hamas operatives.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
It was probably a planned terrorist assassination of Hamas operatives.
this sounds like you deem whoever attacked the Hamas guys were terrrorists. i will not comment on that, for obvious reasons.
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Originally posted by kasperl
this sounds like you deem whoever attacked the Hamas guys were terrrorists. i will not comment on that, for obvious reasons.
Eh? That sentence doesn't make sense. I fully support targeted assasinations of known terrorists, if that's what you're asking.
www.feedroom.com has footage of the bombing.
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Staying at 15, looks like.
Anyway, I'm kinda surprised at the astonishment all this has recieved over here. Politicoes all standing up and going: "Wups! That's it! Roadmap's dead! Israeli-Palestinian thing is unsolvable again!"
I mean, really. I can understand everyone's kissing Bush's ass, fine, but did anyone really think that some silly agreement that's basically the same as Oslo and a dozen others would instantly stop the fighting, and permanently? Sharon and Abbas both seem to be acting in good faith, though they plainly trust each other about as far as they can throw one another, but so? That's two fairly powerful people who want peace, and hundreds in the PNA and Knesset who are screaming for blood, just waiting for the slightest trip-up to exaggerate and shriek about until they're both out of power.
Peace is screwed, man. You seriously need to off your politicians. For that matter, we could do with a coup, too.:doubt:
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Staying at 15, looks like.
Up to 16 killed according to the 7pm news.
EDIT: Among those killed in the helicopter attack on the car in the Gaza strip were a couple of armed Hamas "millitants", as well as the person (Titi something) responsible for launching Kasam rockets at Israeli towns near Gaza recently.
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When I take over Britain (and subsequently Europe and most of America) I'm going to give every Palestinian a tank, and disarm Israel, leaving them only the rocks formed from the rubble of their homes to fight with.
That should stop the fighting or, at the very least, make the Palestinians hypocrits.
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:(
Oh, this is just great, things were looking somewhat promising, but now...
Well, this one gets blamed on Sharone, and his ill-timed and unsuccessful pot shot at Abdel Rantisi.
Note I'm not blaming Israel in general, but this round of violence was clearly started by Sharone.
well at least your second atack wasn't a failure, looks like you got whoever you were shooting at, but there is going to be at least a month of violence now, and another one or two before talks will begin again :sigh:
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There was pretty much going to be, anyway. Hamas basically said it was going to be business as usual.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
There was pretty much going to be, anyway. Hamas basically said it was going to be business as usual.
yeah, but even then, i doubt that it is smart to shoot the one you are talking with, even if they don't agree.
which genius is behind the attack on that Hamas spokesmen.
and one more thing, could people from various couintry';s plz post what thier media says about it,just to compare.
out here, in Holland, the Israel violonce is now treated the same way as the Palestinian, but the Isreal violence is showed a bit more negative.
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yes, but it would have been better for Isreal to have waited for them to stike first.
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Kasperl: Since when was anyone talking with Hamas? Abbas asked them nicely to stop, but anyone who's got better than a fourth-grade understanding of politics realizes that it's completely against Hamas's interests to ever stop- if you're a terrorist organization, what the hell do you do if you agree not to be terrorists? If you want the destruction of Israel, why hold off at a point when it'd be politically inconvenient for Israel to be bombed? They just go through the motions of asking them, and being surprised when they ignore that- it's not like the Palestinians can do much else, and most of the Israeli government doesn't care. They find it convenenient to equate the PLO with Hamas, so that they can get right back to killing Palestinians as soon as the next bus blows up- which is really what a lot of them want.
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Commentary here says that the suicide bombing could not have been in response to the failed attack on Rantisi, since suicide bombers take much longer than 24 hours to get prepared and go out.
The same with Israel's attack on the car in Gaza today - it happened so soon after the bombing that I cannot imagine it being a direct response.
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uhm, if neither are direct responses, the Palestine thing si probably hard lined terrorist, which is bad, but not as bad as a direct response. the Israel one on the other hand, is bad, since AFAIK Israel as controll over all of it's forces, meaning that if this was pre-planned, this would be unprovoked, :no:
but the Palestine thing could just be a guy who has been waiting for months to get a good reason.
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Hmm... you might want to read up on how Hamas operates. You don't give the guys a month to wait, they might have second thoughts.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hmm... you might want to read up on how Hamas operates. You don't give the guys a month to wait, they might have second thoughts.
honestly, i don't have that much time to follow everything, but i try to keep track of things like this, i might be wrong. but why would this be specificly hamas? there not the only ones IIRC.
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Holy Jeez... well, at least it was so few casualties compared to what it could've been.... :(
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Ok obviously my view on this stuff is less informed than yours, but at the same time I also think its a bit more objective.
In my mind, killing people via suicide bomb or shooting them with a rifle or tank is the same thing. And yes, I am refering to the IDF killing civilians. I fully understand what Isreal is doing, though I dont support it. After WW2, with 6 million Jews dead, I'de take any steps necessary to protect my land too. However, I think that pushing around the Palestinians isn't helping anything. You claim that the Palestinians are the terrorists. Well terrorist is what big armies call little armies. If they had uniforms and guns, you'de call them an army. It just using what you've got to further your own side if the struggle. And I'm also pretty sure that however many Isrealis die in suicide bombings, more Palestinians are killed in the inevitable revenge.
The thing that got me about the Isreali-Palestian conflict when I looked at a map, is just how small the contested area is. I understand fighting over large pieces of land, but the difference between the current borders and the contested borders is like 20km
Anyways, thats my opinion, though ofcourse I know its harder to looks at it objectively when you're in the middle of it.
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Rictor: Arr! That be exactly what I be saying for years!
Except that, of course, there are no borders. Palestine is not, as of now, an independent country. It's an occupied part of Israel. It wants to be an independent country, but Israel doesn't want to give up the opportunity to use it for settlements. Also, a lot of Orthodox Jews demand that the whole thing must be Israel to fulfill the covenant in the Bible.
Me, I say my religion states I get the entire East Coast of North America. Now gimme, or else you're offending my beliefs and therefore a bigot Nazi scumbag.
Kasperl: 'Cos they're the ones that said it was them, duh.
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How about if we pick everyone not wanting peace in in the region and dump em in Siberia. Russia is pulling back much of it's population there so there's a lot of real-estate freeing up. Let them fight it out there.
That way serious people that want peace can go about their business and Sandwich can enjoy not having to try to find out if friends died in yet another senseless attack.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Kasperl: 'Cos they're the ones that said it was them, duh.
uhm, missed that part.
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The death toll is staying at 16 so far, but there are still 10 seriously injured people in hospitals around Jerusalem.
Originally posted by Rictor
In my mind, killing people via suicide bomb or shooting them with a rifle or tank is the same thing. And yes, I am refering to the IDF killing civilians. I fully understand what Isreal is doing, though I dont support it. After WW2, with 6 million Jews dead, I'de take any steps necessary to protect my land too. However, I think that pushing around the Palestinians isn't helping anything. You claim that the Palestinians are the terrorists. Well terrorist is what big armies call little armies. If they had uniforms and guns, you'de call them an army. It just using what you've got to further your own side if the struggle. And I'm also pretty sure that however many Isrealis die in suicide bombings, more Palestinians are killed in the inevitable revenge.
I have a point to make, and please thnk about it: I don't call terrorists terrorists because they are not as well equipped as a standing army. I call them terrorists when they deliberately target unarmed civillians who are going about their lives. Suicide bombers and drive-by shootings are examples of such actions.
IIRC, there was an instance a few months (a year?) ago where a Jewish settler shot at unarmed Palestinian villagers in the area. I don't recall the details, unfortunately, but perhaps some of you do, since I'd think it was exploited to the hilt in the media. Anyway, that person was a terrorist. Had he taken a tank and started shelling homes without discrimination, he'd still be a terrorist. Now maybe he had his reasons - perhaps all his loved ones were killed in suicide bombings or something - it doesn't change the fact that what he did was an act of terrorisim. The act is what defines it, not the reasons for the act. Heck, it is the act itself that is being defined.
When there is a demonstration of Palestinians at a funeral, and they start shooting at Israeli soldiers nearby, I do not call that terrorisim - those soldiers (of which I am one) are capable of defending themselves.
When the IDF targets a vehicle full of Hamas operatives (and don't be fooled - Hamas is a terrorist organization, classified as such even by the UN), I do not equate that with an act of terrorisim. Innocent civillians are not being targeted. Known terrorists who have themselves comitted acts of terrorisim or have sent forth and supported terrorists are the targets.
Also, in such cases, "collateral damage" - bystanders being maimed and killed - is something that Israel takes very seriously, and goes to extreme efforts to avoid. However, when innocent Palestinians bystanders are hurt or killed in (helicopter) attacks on known terrorists, I do not call it terrorisim - they were not deliberately tageted. Please note the difference.
I think the world needs a referesher course on what exactly terrorisim is. Hard to believe that in the post 9/11 era, people have forgotten what terrorisim is, but with all the anti-American sentiment rising in Europe and elsewhere, I guess it's just a matter of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".
Originally posted by Rictor
The thing that got me about the Isreali-Palestian conflict when I looked at a map, is just how small the contested area is. I understand fighting over large pieces of land, but the difference between the current borders and the contested borders is like 20km
The width of Israel is... well, here:
(http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_middle_east/israel_area.jpg)
(http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/israel.gif)
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This is yet another tragic event that will cost the lives of many more people by way of its repercussions. :sigh:
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damn, the situation's getting pretty bad over there, sandy...
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i just heard news from CNN NATO forces could do something i hope not
good you are still alive Sandwich:)
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i seriously doubt that NATO would have duristiction over israeli territory...
*remembers US forces in iraq*
well there GOES that theory..
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
i just heard news from CNN NATO forces could do something i hope not
That's an interesting development, if it happens. But I have to wonder what they will actually do here? Prevent terrorists from slipping through security checkpoints and the like? Not bloody likely. Insist on Israel not going after terrorists? Not bloody likely. So what good would they be here - they'd just increase the number of targets the terrorists have as far as I can see.
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Play cards with the IDF forces?:p
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Look busy and helpful. The UN's struggling right now, it's become a political theater between the US and EU, with both trashing it in their fight for control, and everyone not closely affiliated with either groups is just trying to keep it together as best they can. Bush's "irrelevant" statement is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I never got the UN, anyway. It can't enforce its mandates, it can't really say or do anything that upsets anyone, and since it includes virtually everyone that means the only thing it really can do is clear minefields in Nigeria or do some other unquestionably nice, but essentially useless task in a hellhole third-world country.
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NATO, isn't attached to the UN AFAIK,
UN forces have those little blue hats/helmets and drive around in bloody obvious white vehicles..
and wouldn't know how to fight even if thier life depended on it(which it usually does)
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Ach, read that wrong. It's late. NATO actually has some muscle, though, being primarily a US operation, they'll be too afraid to piss off Israel or be portrayed as genocidal Palestinian-baby killers to really do anything except try to hinder Israeli counterstrikes if they get too overzealous.
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indeed.. i suppose the UN's Days are sadly numbered...
it seems that a lot of major powers are doing whatever they like regardless of what the UN says..
which in turn, makes the UN look like officer barbrady..
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Well, either that or it's in a transitional state, and soon either the US or the EU will be using it as a device to achieve empire again. Then you'll get military backing (probably more so than before), and at least a modicum of usefulness.
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maybe so.. something really needs to be done to give the UN some moderate Clout..
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Originally posted by Turnsky
it seems that a lot of major powers are doing whatever they like regardless of what the UN says..
which in turn, makes the UN look like officer barbrady..
When you don't back up verbal "threats" with force, when you don't put your money where your mouth is, you are ridiculed.
And example of this is the UN.
An example of the other result, of taking action, is the US in their war against the Taliban and Iraq, and Israel's war on Palestinian terrorisim. Both are currently being harshly criticised for their offensive actions.
Ridicule for not doing anything, or criticisim for taking action. Choose one. :doubt:
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a catch 22 situation..
"you're dammned if you do, Dammed if you don't"
just shows how stupid most of the human race really is..
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Originally posted by Turnsky
a catch 22 situation..
"you're dammned if you do, Dammed if you don't"
just shows how stupid most of the human race really is..
Exactly! The world will think badly of you no matter what, so the only decision to make is which option is best for you. Israel and the US have made that choice - correctly, IMO. The UN.... well, let's not get into that.
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it didn't surprise me when the war in iraq actually started, all the anti-war protesters shut up..
well, as for the US and israel making the right decision.. i have to agree with ya..
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Originally posted by Turnsky
it didn't surprise me when the war in iraq actually started, all the anti-war protesters shut up..
Not all of them.:D
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Originally posted by Turnsky
indeed.. i suppose the UN's Days are sadly numbered...
It's basically the League all over again. Which, in turn, reminds me of Babel...
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:sigh: Happy days, eh?
What is needed is to help people to realise how pointless this conflict, and all other conflicts in the world are, even the US's "war on terrorism". We cannot force this realisation upon people, because by doing so we become as bad as they are themselves. We can only inform, and hope that they come to see the truth themselves. We're all people , for crying out loud! Why are we so self-destructive? What is humanity's obsession with destroying every other part of itself that doesn't have the same ideals and beliefs, and striving to get the best deal for itself while not caring how the rest of the world suffers for this?
I am deeply saddened by these events, not just because so many people are dying needlessly and pointlessly over such a tiny patch of land, but because it shows up the underlying problem with our great race, the one that means we can never be free of prejudice, and hatred, and death and destruction while we live together on this beautiful planet.
While such things are happening, we cannot claim to live in a civilised society, we cannot claim to be morally right (no matter what side we are on), we cannot even claim to be good people, because if we were any of these things, then we would not tolerate petty squabbles such as this that lead to such suffering and destruction.
I do not pretend to be free of these wrongs of prejudice, and mistrust, and hatred, and selfishness, because I am human, and I cannot be free of these things while I see other humans treating each other in such ways, but I feel it is my right, my obligation, and my duty to spread this truth among the people of the world, so that they may decide for themselves.
Until the day comes when, all across the world, people open their eyes and see the reality of our violent existence, how cruelly and selfishly we have been treating each other for ten thousand years, we are doomed to live like this - each generation passing on it's prejudice, and hatred, and incontentment to the next, each one twisting these ancient evils into new forms, subverting and turning another part of our race against itself to the ruin of all.
We cannot carry on like this, and I cannot live in a world where a species that has such potential, potential to be so great and powerful and good, is riddled with such terrible sadness and weakness and evil. I have to try and save us before it is too late, before our self-destructive path is complete, and we wipe ourselves from history forever.
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
:sigh: Happy days, eh?
* snip *
Translation: Why can't we all just get along?!? :D
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Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
How about if we pick everyone not wanting peace in in the region and dump em in Siberia. Russia is pulling back much of it's population there so there's a lot of real-estate freeing up. Let them fight it out there.
I actually prefer putting them all in a giant warehouse full of knives and let them kill each other, then blowing up the warehouse when one side is dead.
But anyway, this entire conflict is completely senseless. It's like the bloody Crusades all over again, but on a smaller scale.
Same thing with the whole Norther Ireland thing. Stupid morons.
All three of the religions are essentially peaceful! They shouldn't be used as an excuse for bloodshed!
This is the same thing the Crusades. Two religions, so similar it isn't even funny, trying to bash each others heads in. It's just so stupid.
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Originally posted by Styxx
Translation: Why can't we all just get along?!? :D
F***in' right. :yes:
Grey Wolf: Actually, it's even worse than that - Judaism, Christianity and Islam are actually just separate branches of the same religion. They just schismed off from each other at some point, over their interpretations of theolo-historic (is this a word? you know what I mean) details: Jews don't believe Christ was the Messiah, Christians do. The Islamic split was further back, over which of two brothers (I forget which ones) was the rightful heir to something or other (again, I forget exactly what). Before this, they were all the same faith.
Damn, I just read my last post again. I must be depressed or something....:blah: Still, it makes sense, doesn't it?
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Actually, the split between Judaism and Islam was actually 600 years later, specifically in the time of Mohammed. What you are thinking of is the Muslim belief that they are descended from Ishmael, whereas there is a belief in Judaism that they are descended from Isaac. Both are believed to be sons of Abraham.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Actually, the split between Judaism and Islam was actually 600 years later, specifically in the time of Mohammed. What you are thinking of is the Muslim belief that they are descended from Ishmael, whereas there is a belief in Judaism that they are descended from Isaac. Both are believed to be sons of Abraham.
what's the difference in religion then?
note: i am an atheist myself and i never actually read any book of worship, except for somekind of explained bible, which was nice, but not all explaining.
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I've been trying to think of a well thought out argument, or unbiased analysis of the events this thread is about. However, I've tried so many times before and failed, just like everyone, that its pointless.
My opinion: Oh S**t. :sigh:
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We can't get along because it runs counter to human nature to get along. We're just as much a part of nature as everything else, meaning we're in a survivalist environment, and the weak-kneed all-loving hippie peacenik isn't as likely to survive or reproduce. Hence, a redneck breeding program inevitably slanted towards more violence, more individualism, and more endless warfare. Might as well ask why we can't all sprout fairy wings and fly to the lush fields of the Moon, where our every wish will be catered to and there will be no more pretexts to fight about.
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Peace will come when the price becomes too high to bear for both sides, and when they realize that neither will prevail
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that will never happen
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Originally posted by Rictor
Peace will come when the price becomes too high to bear for both sides, and when they realize that neither will prevail
For some, revenge doesn't have a price tag.
In other words: One starts the other retaliates, and vice cersa. [insert endless loop and increasing hatred towards eachother]
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Like a game of tag that got way out of control, now featuring helicoptor strikes and suicide teenage bombers.
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just my opinion sandy.. i hope that the palestinan(sp?) terrosts don't get thier hands on a nuke (a longshot/hypothetical situation)
would they use it? probably not(hopefully but who knows the mindset of these people).. remember the lasting effects that a nuke has? fallout, residual radiation... things like that could affect a much larger area than people like to think...
remember chernobyl?(sp?) whilst not a thermonuclear detonation(close enough) radioactive debris was spread over much of russia and a fair bit of europe..
hiroshima was a similar case... and most tac nukes have a larger yield (even old russian cold war era ones..)
my advice sandy.. keep yer head down.. and pray to god you don't get yerself killed...
either that.. or plan on moving to australia/america;)
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Yea, but the second they nuke Israel, the rest of the world (US) would be all over their ass. Not gonna happen.
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exactly... but it would make for one hell of a bluff...
and chances are, the US would send Australia's SAS forces in..
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Originally posted by Turnsky
and chances are, the US would send Australia's SAS forces in..
Heh - chances are they'd get the job done too :nod:
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no kidding..:p
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Originally posted by Turnsky
remember chernobyl?(sp?) whilst not a thermonuclear detonation(close enough) radioactive debris was spread over much of russia and a fair bit of europe..
no blast at all.
as for the radioactive cloud, actually, it's been proven that it made a trip around the entire planet and back to Tchernobyl, at least.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
exactly... but it would make for one hell of a bluff...
and chances are, the US would send Australia's SAS forces in..
Because the British SAS would have already finished the job, packed up, gone home, got laid, had a few beers.... :nervous:
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Ok, time to break out my plan for a super-army under UN control.... never gonna happen :(
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Yay! UNATCO!:D
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Actually, the split between Judaism and Islam was actually 600 years later, specifically in the time of Mohammed. What you are thinking of is the Muslim belief that they are descended from Ishmael, whereas there is a belief in Judaism that they are descended from Isaac. Both are believed to be sons of Abraham.
Ah! That's the one. Couldn't remember the names.
Stryke: EDIT: Ignore what I said here. Most embarrassing...:nervous: /EDIT
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pyro::wtf:
Uhh... did you ever even PLAY the game?
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Originally posted by Venom
no blast at all.
as for the radioactive cloud, actually, it's been proven that it made a trip around the entire planet and back to Tchernobyl, at least.
there was an explosion... not nuclear though, it was steam buildup within the reactor vessel itself which completely blew it apart...
you see they wanted to see how much the turbines would freewheel in the event of a reactor shutdown, so they turned of the main portion of it, (and all of the saftey equipment too)
and BOOM.. radioactive bits and pieces spread hither and yon..
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
pyro::wtf:
Uhh... did you ever even PLAY the game?
OOPS. :o
Yeah, but it was about two years ago last time I finished it. I can't remember what happened to them at all, just that it all went tits-up at some point. Post edited. Feel free to abuse me...
The fallout from Chernobyl was rather nasty - there's still a load of sheep farmers in North Wales who can't sell their sheep, 'cos the hills they graze on are still radioactive. I think it's the same in some bits of the Peak District as well, but I dunno.
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they reformed after a major shakedown...
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Gah.... Chernobyl. The exact type of people you never want to see in charge of a power plant.
Soviet Leader: Let's build a nuclear power plant! The US is doing it, and if the capitalist pigs are doing it, we can do it too! However, since money is running tight, we will put it above ground level and skimp on the failsafes.
Months/years later....
Soviet Scientist: Let's run an experiment on the plant! And turn off the failsafes!
Minutes later....
Scientist: Damn.
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that's exacly what happened:p
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It's pretty damn close. It is a shimmering example of the Soviet nuclear program, right up there with the first-generation nuclear submarines, with their poorly shielded reactors.
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Ick... that's military science for you. Bloody Cold War. :doubt:
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that's human nature for you...
actually, in the history of nuclear power plants... there have been only two 'disasters' involving them..one of which was a true accident..
Chernobyl: -man made (human stupidity)
Three mile island: - 'China Syndrome'(core meltdown)
so much for Greenies say nuclear is 'unsafe' all things considered, it has a reasonable track record...
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one thing about nuke plans though, when they do have little gliches they tend to be big, though at the moment there the best source of power, what I would like to see in the future is a high altitude orbital power system, put it in geosynchronous orbit, beam the power back via laser or something, hell you could just put up a giant mirror that focuses the light of the sun to a small point on the ground were it is converted to electricity
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that can work... but how ya gonna get it up there?..
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Originally posted by Bobboau
one thing about nuke plans though, when they do have little gliches they tend to be big, though at the moment there the best source of power, what I would like to see in the future is a high altitude orbital power system, put it in geosynchronous orbit, beam the power back via laser or something, hell you could just put up a giant mirror that focuses the light of the sun to a small point on the ground were it is converted to electricity
Sounds a lot like SimCity 2000 to me.:D
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Originally posted by Turnsky
exactly... but it would make for one hell of a bluff...
and chances are, the US would send Australia's SAS forces in..
Were they among the various special forces groups that Israel has helped to train in counter-terrorisim and hostage situations?
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possibly.. i dunno.. i know that the US was Extremely impressed with thier performance in iraq..
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Dude, have you seen our foreign policy towards friendly countries?
The US is "very impressed" every time the prime minister of some state doesn't crap himself in public. Bush's statements mean about as much as if he started screaming that he wanted the blue crayon.;)
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US military commanders were impressed, i meant..
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That's slightly better. Now, impress someone who isn't patronizing to the rest of the world, though.:p
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The US is never impressed by anyopne but themselves. They say it for PR, but I think that they honsetly believe themselves to be better than the rest of humanity
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good point..
still... we never had 'friendly fire' incidents..:p
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Were they among the various special forces groups that Israel has helped to train in counter-terrorisim and hostage situations?
I'm pretty sure they were. On that note, every second day on TV we hear about their training exercises in Sydney on just that.
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indeed... all that TV coverage gets annoying after a while..