Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Petrarch of the VBB on June 30, 2003, 11:23:54 am
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Read this, and try not to be enraged.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,987172,00.html?=rss
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Unbe****ing lievable
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Sounds about the same as a tough boarding school, actually. Better there, where they appear to be responsible to at least a limited degree, then at home being beaten with a tire iron by their ****head parents.
EDIT: Actually, on reading further, I think I know a girl whose brother was shipped to an operation very like this. Her parents were ****ing deranged- it turned out she got the worse part of the deal.
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Oh god. I just read the whole thing. I ****ing swear, if I got 300 people with me, I'de go storm that ****ing rats nest and kick their asses back to the ****ing stone age. I actually mean it. I'de give my own money just o fly to Jamaica and storm that ****ing place..
Excuse my swearing, but its justified. I cant believe this. Its like regulated chold abuse.
**** like this just reinforces my desire to become a highly armed vigilante
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uhhh...a maximum-detention "resort" for troubled kids?
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Of course, the real question might be- which is worse, this for three years, or mollycoddling your kid into a psychotic ****head like most of the punks I meet? Most of 'em are spoiled children, and they grow up to be that way as adults, too- plagues on everyone around them, whiny, destructive, and... well, psychotic really is the only word for it.
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Of further interest might be the two threads on the PCGF where I found it.
http://forum.pcgamer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=23711&highlight=
http://forum.pcgamer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=23719&highlight=
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I actually don't mind this that much. Some people just need a good ass-wupin'. Hell with some disipline I might have lasted more than a year in college.
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Ha ha, you will love this family or I WILL MAKE YOU LOVE THIS FAMILY.
Jesus, if my parents were like those lazy ****s, I'd have been in there at least five years now.
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Um, I find this very disturbing. Not only is it immoral, I suspect it is also illegal under the international human rights charters. Surely, America's constitution at least prevents parents from subjecting thier children to this? Bill of Rights even?
Admittedly the actual "correction" is not on US soil, but the ABDUCTION process is. Where the **** are the Feds?
I wonder if we could convince George and Tony to liberate Jamaica?
[q]The British government, too, he hopes, might send him children in its care. 'If social services was interested, at $2,400 a month I bet they can't offer our services for that.'
[/q]
Yes and pigs might fly in through his window and rape him. :wtf:
He seriously doesn't get the way of thinking here if he believes what he says. I think a lot of people like myself in the UK have the belief that "Go ahead, believe and do what you want, but the moment you threaten my people's freedom - I'll wipe you off the face of the Earth."
This is just part of a much larger problem where people want to wash themselves of responsibility. :blah:
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I'm sorry to say, but the U.S. is ****ing it's own civil liberties right up the ass. :(
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Originally posted by vyper
I suspect it is also illegal under the international human rights charters.
[/b]
Nope. They don't really administer beatings or anything, and psychological torture is one huge loophole. Also, keep in mind that in certain places this is just about normal life- sweatshops, juntas, and the like are all over the place.
Originally posted by vyper
Surely, America's constitution at least prevents parents from subjecting thier children to this? Bill of Rights even?
Nope. Fact, like I said, I think they have schools very much like that right here...
Originally posted by vyper
Admittedly the actual "correction" is not on US soil, but the ABDUCTION process is. Where the **** are the Feds?
Nope. Parent approval- in America, until you turn 18, you are legally property- you get a few rights such as that not to be starved to death in a closet or beaten up for not doing the dishes, but not many more than most household pets enjoy.
Originally posted by vyper
I wonder if we could convince George and Tony to liberate Jamaica?
On grounds of this? They'd probably approve. Bush is all for that whole fascist goose-stepping, Big-Brother-is-watching thing (or, at least, the smarter and eviller officials such as Ashcroft who he answers to are), and Blair strikes me as kinda a jerk like that, too- though I know all of jack **** about him, really.
Originally posted by vyper
This is just part of a much larger problem where people want to wash themselves of responsibility. :blah:
Somewhat. It's also representative of that mostly ultra-conservative category of people who believe that this should be the way of life for everybody. It's basically military school here, it's nothing new.
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Anyone know of a rich person to recruit to the cause, cause if someone payed for my plane ticket, I'de go. I suspect there alot of people that share my opinion. I'm not kidding..
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Mm. And are you going to personally tear down all of these? There must be many dozen, not to mention military schools which are, if anything, worse...
I'm all for the (if necessary) violent installment of individual liberties, but when you realize that you're basically surrounded by outrages like this... you learn to pick your battles. You'll see in time, if you really do care about this stuff and aren't just given to the momentary sensation. I suppose it's a bit numbing after a time, but there are more effective ways...
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[q]
Mm. And are you going to personally tear down all of these? There must be many dozen, not to mention military schools which are, if anything, worse...[/q]
This might need some sort of military backing I think
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That Kay guy's comments were pretty funny:
On the other hand, he believes anyone who saw inside Tranquility would support and admire it, and blames criticism on ignorance.
If your son is willfully disrespectful, the most loving gift a parent can give him is incarceration in an environment so intolerable that he will do anything to get out - where 'anything' means surrendering his mind to authority.
But what we figured out was, why not get them to come to the conclusion that they need to make the change themselves? That's what makes this programme special. It's up to them.'
lol :D
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Yes, I would personally tear down each and every one, if given the chance.
As I've said, this is just another reason to start my own high-tech, international vigilante group, cause the governemnts aren't going to do ****
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I'd join!
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I wouldn't bother; such things are everywhere in the world, and when you get rid of one ten more pop up in its place, so there is nothing to be gained in the end. you can take comfort in that it is really all only a bunch of molecules moving and interacting. :D
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Originally posted by CP5670
That Kay guy's comments were pretty funny:
[...]
lol :D
Heh? I actually tought you'd find that just brilliant :doubt:
Anyway.
Have you noticed? That's worse than prison, your only way out w/o being an obedient slave would be to kill someone, I suppose :blah:
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interestingly enough, there's a batman beyond episode based on this idea with the same name as the article.
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Originally posted by CP5670
I wouldn't bother; such things are everywhere in the world, and when you get rid of one ten more pop up in its place, so there is nothing to be gained in the end. you can take comfort in that it is really all only a bunch of molecules moving and interacting. :D
No, you wouldn't bother. I would. I will.
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Have you noticed? That's worse than prison, your only way out w/o being an obedient slave would be to kill someone, I suppose
Which would probably be happening quite frequently given the probable kids/staff ratio, but they wouldn't want to let that be known since then all the remaining staff would quit. :D
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Originally posted by Venom
Heh? I actually tought you'd find that just brilliant :doubt:
Anyway.
Have you noticed? That's worse than prison, your only way out w/o being an obedient slave would be to kill someone, I suppose :blah:
Well, most human beings who believe in self-determination, civilisation and freedom would rather kill than be put in that situation.
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Venom: Pretty much. The way the kids essentially perpetuate it themselves, form little Gestapo units, is particularly nasty. I gotta say it doesn't speak volumes for the character of the kids doing it, though, which takes a bit of my sympathy away. Normal, I suppose, but still repulsive that they'd become so vile just with a little of what is effectively very mild psych torture.
I wonder, though... the whole system is almost utterly dependant on the kids in the late stages of brainwashing. How did this thing get set up in the first place? It wouldn't work at all with just the guards... the only answer I can think of is that they mainly get brutish, bullying, untrustworthy sorts...
Rictor: I'm gonna quote you on that, and in a month from now if you're not on your way to Jamaica I'll hound you like all hell for it. Sound fair?
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A month, no. Ten years, yes.
They force the kids to turn on each other to survive. They have to form "gestapo units" in order to free themselves.
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Hardly. They assault each other in order to vent some of their own unhappiness. It's fairly typical behavior, but immature, cruel, and repulsive. They're under standing orders to betray and poke at each other and such, but from the examples given they go above and beyond the call of duty- they're enthusiastic to cause harm to others.
Ten years? My, that's a conveniently long time- hell, world domination is on my ten-year list- I'll have forgotten all this stuff by then, but that's kinda the point. Thought you didn't particularly care.
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I doubt they intentionally go overboard, but even if they do, can you blame them? They've been brainwashed, many of them for years.
And you dont have to believe me, cause I really dont care if you do.
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Originally posted by Rictor
They force the kids to turn on each other to survive. They have to form "gestapo units" in order to free themselves.
This is very troubling. Did you notice the thing about the straight A student who got sent there at the age of 17 simply for having the wrong boyfriend?
This place is basically training the future sociopaths of the future. Anyone want to bet me that someone who went to this place isn't going to be involved in a killing spree some time within the next 20 years?
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The part I was surprised at was how completely brainwashed even former Tranq. people seem to be... I thought humans had a bit more integrity. Although there could be more to it, as a media person may not get complete access to everything.
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Never be surprised by the power of humans to be brainwashed. It doesn't even take this to pursuade a suicide bomber or nazi.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Venom: Pretty much. The way the kids essentially perpetuate it themselves, form little Gestapo units, is particularly nasty. I gotta say it doesn't speak volumes for the character of the kids doing it, though, which takes a bit of my sympathy away. Normal, I suppose, but still repulsive that they'd become so vile just with a little of what is effectively very mild psych torture.
I wonder, though... the whole system is almost utterly dependant on the kids in the late stages of brainwashing. How did this thing get set up in the first place? It wouldn't work at all with just the guards... the only answer I can think of is that they mainly get brutish, bullying, untrustworthy sorts...
Rictor: I'm gonna quote you on that, and in a month from now if you're not on your way to Jamaica I'll hound you like all hell for it. Sound fair?
To be perfectly honest, I have no sympathy for anyone involved because the parents are obviously earning huge amounts to afford to send their kids to it, to earn money like that they must be working a fair bit (mostly away from home I should imagine) and don't have time to spend with their kids. Seems that most of those kids are probably brats too.
Sad fact is that the kids being uncontrollable is most probably a sympton of the parents caring too much about the all important green.
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Originally posted by karajorma
This is very troubling. Did you notice the thing about the straight A student who got sent there at the age of 17 simply for having the wrong boyfriend?
Having been considered the "wrong boyfriend" before, I find this one particularaly disconcerting. It just proves people are capable of anything, at all.
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Bad parents are now paying for the right to be even worse parents. Sure, there's no shortage of kids (neds) who deserve a good kciking in Glasgow, but allowing parents to pack up and send their kids top a glorified penal colony without even having to have justification is downright wrong.
Possibly the children can get their revenge when it comes to sending their parents off to an old folks home......?
(In fact, that could be a nice little earner. anyone want to help me set up one in Kabul? Land's cheap there, and demolition services are easy to find. construction might be a bit tough, though....)
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Un-****ing-believable.
I can't believe someone would send their child to a place like this.
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yeah, I think some parents might not look forward their children coming back :p
"so, you sent me there? I've learned stuff, there, you know..."
"scream of agonizing parents"
amazing what you can do with a watch.
hehehe, hehehe, hohoho ;7
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Watch? I'm a victim's-own-limbs man, myself.
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im surprised they don't leave the watch... if its tight fitting, its something to connect a horse too... or weld to the celing...
I going to lock my door at night now... :nervous: :shaking: :nervous: :shaking:
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Man is just another "animal with a big brain".
Conditioning and torture works miracle on him just like on any other mammal.
The power of psychic torture exeeds anything that you'd believe.
I know a bit about it's power, 'cause ever since I moved to my second school I was being picked off and bullied, furthermore I also could watch my younger sister turn out to be one of those "misbehaving teens".
You should read a book from a Hungarian writer Géza Ottlik: "Iskola a határon" - "School on the Border".
It was translated into almost all mainstream languages, so languange shouldn't be a problem.
The book deals with a couple of boys being sent of to military school.
The boys in the school took on an abusive authoritan behaviour, since it was the way the boys in the upper classes treated them - and there wasn't any true torture like in Tranquilty.
The problem is that they aren't going to come out of that place unless they subject to the system...and there aren't many dead guards either.
It takes just a little step to become part of the system and eversince that you'll be going down.
Agreeing or pretending to agree to one of their doctrenes is the first part. Then you'll go along later to scrutinise others.
The horrible part is that in order to get out of there, that's the only way - if you try to resist you'll be back to square one.
If you lie...you're on a razer blade, and if you ever fall off...you're back on square 1 with even more difficulties.
In order to get out, you have to subject yourself to the system and truly believe its madness, since that's the only way.
You'll naturally end up hurting others - because as it is stated in the article it's not you against them - it's everyone against you!
As for Rictor's idea...I would join if I could truly bring myself to detach from my current life...but that's a daydread.
Stryke and Venom: it's not the act itself that matters. If you thought it wouldn't change anything than the slaves or the liberals would never have started their revolt.
It's the statement itself that's important:
The fact that you take whatever you can to oppose the evil that surrounds you. The publicity and the larger affect are that will bring salvation even if you fail.
Being a martyr is a f**** up business, 'cause your whole life will be liead about, but at least you can live in peace with your heart.
It is a choice...but in order to live it....you can't live any other life.
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heh? why me?
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Originally posted by Venom
heh? why me?
Sory I wrote that in a single breath and I confused CP's comment with yours, he said taking up arms or whatever wouldn't have any effect.
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I actually like the sound of that place.
It's got military precision. A simple system of promotion and punishment. Basically, lots of order. And it is effective.
Notice how there is no mention of anyone being beaten or raped, or the guards carrying guns, or anyone being petty and evil. Sounds a lot better than most boarding schools.
All you've got to worry about there is following the rules, which anyone with half a brain and a little self-discipline can do. Whereas at every school the world over you've not only got to worry about the rules, but also the other kids taking a disliking to you, the teachers being petty, activities and study which you don't like or want to do.
Basically, it seems like a Buddhist retreat with guards.
If they taught some useful skills (unarmed combat, mechanics, carpentry, boxing, armed combat, politics etc) and allowed more parental visits, I'd send my hypothetical kid there.
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Originally posted by an0n
I actually like the sound of that place.
It's got military precision. A simple system of promotion and punishment. Basically, lots of order. And it is effective.
Notice how there is no mention of anyone being beaten or raped, or the guards carrying guns, or anyone being petty and evil. Sounds a lot better than most boarding schools.
All you've got to worry about there is following the rules, which anyone with half a brain and a little self-discipline can do. Whereas at every school the world over you've not only got to worry about the rules, but also the other kids taking a disliking to you, the teachers being petty, activities and study which you don't like or want to do.
Basically, it seems like a Buddhist retreat with guards.
If they taught some useful skills (unarmed combat, mechanics, carpentry, boxing, armed combat, politics etc) and allowed more parental visits, I'd send my hypothetical kid there.
:wtf: You're in serious need to get your head examined man...
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:wtf:
Did you read those comments by the ex-students?
The students all describe their pre-programme selves using the same subjective descriptions, such as 'ignorant' or 'disrespectful', as if these were neutral adjectives, like 'brown'. Their delivery, too, is disturbingly similar, for the words come out like empty envelopes, emotionally vacant.
'When I was sent here I was very upset,' Kate tells me. Her voice is careful but dull. 'My parents didn't tell me I was coming here. They tricked me.' She smiles a faraway, inscrutable smile. 'I had to have the police escort me on to the plane.'
How do you feel about it now? 'I think it's great. The fact that I changed my life is great.' And what's your relationship like with them now? 'It's great.' What spark Kate and others have is lit only by Kay and the chaperones, towards whom a faintly flirtatious electricity seems to flicker. These children do not just obey rules. They seem to have been psychologically rewired.
I was almost expecting someone to say they were using ludovico treatment. :blah:
Edit: Almost forgot my favourite part:
Scott remembers a new boy being caught with incriminating used tissues; masturbation is strictly forbidden. 'And they got him up in front of everyone right after dinner, and the upper-level kids just ripped into him, this little 13-year-old kid. It was kind of the entertainment for the night. That's what I mean about breaking kids.'
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They're not allowed to wank?!
We're definitely attacking the place.:D
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
They're not allowed to wank?!
We're definitely attacking the place.:D
yeh the rest of the human rights violations was bad enough but this takes the biscuit...
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Well exactly. The beatings I don't mind, but not being able to wank?:eek:
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is there an organised resestince for this?
I will leave tonight if someone can point me to something dedicated to physicaly breaking these places.
if not can we do anything?
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Oh my God........how the **** do people get away with **** like that!?
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Originally posted by Bobboau
is there an organised resestince for this?
I will leave tonight if someone can point me to something dedicated to physicaly breaking these places.
if not can we do anything?
There is not physical response possible to this.
Its currently legal - anyone interested in a web campaign to change that?
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Morons.
Aside from the fact that I highly doubt any of you really even care on anything other than a superficial, "everyone expects me to be outraged" level; This has always and will always happen.
It is human nature to lust after power (and subsequently money). So as long as the people who run these places still want power, and the parents still want power over their kids, places like this will continue to run, regardless of what anyone says or does.
Also, web campaigns DON'T ****ING WORK! They're useless garbage. I mean, who the **** is gonna give a rats ass about the opinion of a group of disgruntled geeks who've got nothing better to do than form non-profit pressure groups?
Nothing you can do will ever stop it.
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**** legal.
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[q]Morons.
Aside from the fact that I highly doubt any of you really even care on anything other than a superficial, "everyone expects me to be outraged" level; This has always and will always happen.
It is human nature to lust after power (and subsequently money). So as long as the people who run these places still want power, and the parents still want power over their kids, places like this will continue to run, regardless of what anyone says or does.
Also, web campaigns DON'T ****ING WORK! They're useless garbage. I mean, who the **** is gonna give a rats ass about the opinion of a group of disgruntled geeks who've got nothing better to do than form non-profit pressure groups?
Nothing you can do will ever stop it.[/q]
(1) People wanting to make a difference are not morons, they're people with more guts that you'll ever have.
(2) Yes, I do actually feel genuine outrage at this.
(3) Bob, what else would you suggest? We can't form our own militia ...
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*sighs*
Fine.
*waits to see how long this ill-fated little endeavour lasts*
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as much as I would like to, no, we can't form our own militia, we lack resorces and organisation, the only other option that I could see is trying to spread some light on this, but we would need some media personality to take this up for there to be enough for anything to posably be done, it isn't beond the relm of posability for some news/magazine thing (such as 20/20 date line, one of the calbe talkshow guys) to make this into a short term well known atrocity, but seeing as it is mostly for rich kids I doubt it has sticking power.
that said :) if there was a militia avaiable somewere for liberateing a few of these I'd join up now, but...:doubt:
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Neeeeoooouurrrrrmmmmm.......*BOOOOMMM* (http://www.univers-cite.qc.ca/tucs/crv/psa_f182/crash_r.jpg)
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that's it! we'll hi-jack a plain and crash it into the admissions office!!
great idea an0n!
did you have that saved?
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What saved?
And there wasn't really any idea, I just posted my vacation pics in the wrong place *fondly remembers his hotels surface-air missile turrets*.
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Originally posted by an0n
Morons.
[...]
Nothing you can do will ever stop it.
Your profile indicates that most of the guys there are like you, rebels, anarchists, that think only of stupid useless weapons and crap, who are against any form of authority bare their own. You'd be sent there, you'd turn into the kind of people you dispise most, and you pray that thing? Inconsistancy to the highest degree if you ask me.
That said, you say all this just to try and make people shocked, nothing more, imho. As usual.
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Why the **** haven't these kids rebelled on their own?!? I mean, they're obviously fairly rebellious to begin with, they probably have some idea of their rights, and while they might not have many, Psychologial toruture can't be included as something acceptable.
Based on the admittedly probably skewed perspectyve of the website and te more true to life of the article, I'd say it might be possible to escape, at least at oe of the higer levels. And if you can escape, you could get ti the embassy of your respective naion and explain the situation. Parently guardianship or otherwise, this can;t be tolerable.
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I guess there's more to the guardians than what is said there, actually...
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an0n: This is one of those threads to remember and bump in a year, ah?
And were the S-A missiles on the house, or what? They charge, no ****ing way it's worth it, but...
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So anon, you basic premise is "nothing you can do to stop human stupidity/hatred/greed so sit back and enjoy the ride?"
I hate people like you. Its very convenient that your approach consists of doing nothing other than enjoying life and profiting from the misery of others. Its harder to go through life (even if you dont change anything) worrying about all the problems and ****, and your own inability to stop them, then your approach.
Its just an accident that you have chosen the easiest way through life, and that you believe anything else is futile, right?
You're not insightful, you're not realistic, you're lazy.
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So Stalin finally made it to America. Not really comparable to what he did back in the '30-s, but well, yeah.
Let's just say that those people deserve to be taken out and shot.:doubt:
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I can't see how legal it is to break in someone's room, tie 'em up and extrade them w/o their consent, to begin with :doubt:
ah, yeah, they're minors, poor bastards.
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Miners?
;)
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Originally posted by Venom
Your profile indicates that most of the guys there are like you, rebels, anarchists, that think only of stupid useless weapons and crap, who are against any form of authority bare their own. You'd be sent there, you'd turn into the kind of people you dispise most, and you pray that thing? Inconsistancy to the highest degree if you ask me.
That said, you say all this just to try and make people shocked, nothing more, imho. As usual.
wait, I'm confused. Are you agreeing with anon, or with those against him, or with no one or with everyone? Maybe its just me..
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Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Miners?
;)
herm, you have me confused there. dunno, don't remember the name. don't care...
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Originally posted by Rictor
wait, I'm confused. Are you agreeing with anon, or with those against him, or with no one or with everyone? Maybe its just me..
yes, it is, but the other way around :p
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Originally posted by an0n
Basically, it seems like a Buddhist retreat with guards.
You clearly know very little about Buddhism.
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Originally posted by an0n
It is human nature to lust after power (and subsequently money). So as long as the people who run these places still want power, and the parents still want power over their kids, places like this will continue to run, regardless of what anyone says or does.
This is correct.
However, many people would be fighting their human nature if they were to NOT feel outraged at this. If everyone who cared for freedom were to not bother, then these ****ty things we see would become a lot worse, a lot more quickly. The world is already ****ed over by human greed and desire, but if everyone were to completely give up like you recommend, we would all be morally, socially, and spiritually falling lower and lower into a pit of greed and selfishness at an even more uncontrollable speed. I would not want to live in a world filled with people that cared solely for their own pleasure without any shining light of compassion and idealism.
Some people will want these things for power, some people will be angry at this and resist. Its all natural, and an0n, you seem to be slagging one side off, yet this side bears just as natural a reaction as Jay Kay's supporters. So stop telling them to give up.
an0n I've noticed you have drastically different views to everyone else here. I'd be interested to know why. Let me know.
Peace
Jack
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Buddhism's the one with the scuicide bombing, right?
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No, Buddhism's the one with the "Lets cover ourselves in petrol and set ourselves on fire" people.
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Originally posted by an0n
No, Buddhism's the one with the "Lets cover ourselves in petrol and set ourselves on fire" people.
I've never heard of this - would you care to explain or provide a link?
Jack
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Not much to it.
As a protest against Vietnam (or for it, I forget), some monk(s) set themselves on fire.
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I was playing Eurofighter Typhoon and a news report said a buddhist monk had 'immolated' himself in a peace protest. Nice way to go.
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good job, pick the single worst example ever. Buddhists literally wouldnt hurt a fly, so your association to any sort of violence is stupid.
According to you, Islam is the "lets crash some planes into buildings" religion, Christianity is the "lets anhiliate 6 million Jews" religion and Judaism is...what?
get real man, or atleast get educated
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Originally posted by Rictor
and Judaism is...what?
Rape Palestine? BTW, an0n is going to prove you oh so wrong.
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Originally posted by Rictor
good job, pick the single worst example ever. Buddhists literally wouldnt hurt a fly, so your association to any sort of violence is stupid.
So very true. an0n, The Buddhists were not protesting either for or against Vietnam, they saw past that... they were protesting for the end of war, the end of suffering on both sides, period. You forgot the mention the hundreds of monks who peacefully protested and were kidnapped, arrested, and murdered by the U.S. Government and right-wing extremists.
The fire incident is probably a 0.0001% occurance between Buddhists.
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But in response to how you were saying effort spent was a waste.. in exchange for those lives, the hard work the monks put into starting community shelters, providing food and help in any way they could saved thousands upon thousands of lives. They had no political motive, they only wished to help end suffering, yet they were seen as a Pro-Communist movement and were targetted for it. But hey - their effort DID help thousands. Things can be done.
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Originally posted by Rictor
good job, pick the single worst example ever. Buddhists literally wouldnt hurt a fly, so your association to any sort of violence is stupid.
According to you, Islam is the "lets crash some planes into buildings" religion, Christianity is the "lets anhiliate 6 million Jews" religion and Judaism is...what?
get real man, or atleast get educated
Islam
So you've got nothing against a religion which the proliferation of civilized beliefs is directly opposed to? You've got nothing against the idea that it's okay to beat women, stoned people to death, kill people for minor crimes, whip people in public. A religion that has begun to encourage violence against 'non-believe heathens'. A religion that has stated many times that, unlike Christianity and other major religions, it will actively and unrelentingly try to force its beliefs on people, barraging them with propoganda until they cave. A religion that caused the deaths of 100 people simply because some reporter made a casual, innocent remark that the Miss World contestants were so good looking that Mohammed might have married one of them.
I've got a few words and phrases you might want to memorise: Female Circumcision, Sharia Law, Burkha, Anti-Equality, Biggoted, Misogynist, Arrogant.
Christianity (Including Catholicism)
What the **** are you talking about? The passive anti-semitic values of the Christian religion lead to the annihilation of 6 million Jews. Oh, and let's not forget the lovely past of this rich and colourful religion. Anyone remember the Dark Ages? Well that's when most of the Bible, which all Christians in some form follow, was rewritten to suit the coffers of the church and its corrupt, immoral, megalomaniacle leaders. The entire religion, over the past 2000 years, has been turned into one big cash cow. Hell, the Catholic church made an agreement with the Nazis that they wouldn't tell Catholics world-wide to fight them as long as the Nazi's left the Catholics alone. Burning the Earth in exchange for a fire-proof bunker, so to speak. And let's not forget that for a hell of a long time, the Church supported the slave trade.
A few words and phrases: Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Collection Plate, Solid Gold Church Decorations, Racism, Native Americans, George Bush, Slavery.
Judaism
One of the oldest religions in the world. Aside from the odd wierdness (Kosher, what the **** is up with that?) I've got nothing against the Jewish faith, as such. But there are a few niggling things I don't like. For one, they refused to support the Kaiser during WW1, which, oddly enough, lead to Hitler having a slight dislike for them and thus allowed Himmler to go crazy and laughter them. There's also the fact that the entire media industry (especially the movie industry) is run by Jews and forces their views down the throats of the populous. Granted, it's eased up of late due to a resurgence of liberal media, but it's still there. How many blacks, or tramps, or gays did you see in Schindlers List? When was the last time you saw Hitler portrayed as a man, because, despite what you've been lead to believe, he wasn't a psychopath. At one time he was merely a struggling artist, a loyal German soldier and a devoted family man, but do you see any of this on TV or in the movies? No. Because the Jews control the films and the TV. And you can bet they'll be riding the old "We were badly persecuted" wagon for...ooooh...the next few thousand years. I'm not even going to get started on Palestine and how they, a 50 year old country, are trying to annihilate Palestine, one of the oldest nations in the world IIRC. Also, if they're such a damn nice bunch of people, why the **** does everyone keep trying to wipe them out? The Egyptians, the Romans, the Nazi's, the Palestinians..... Two words: Smoke, Fire.
Words-N-Phrases: Circumcision, Kosher (WTF?!?!), Jesus, Crucifiction.
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Buddhism is the only form of religion I respect.
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Actually, that's the one thing I hate more than organised religion; People who say they follow an organised religion, but are really just mildly fond of the ideas and lighter aspects of the religion.
Y'know, like an Amish guy with a torch.
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so sue me if I like what they do.
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*begins legal proceedings*
*nukes the Philipines*
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Originally posted by an0n
Islam
I've got a few words and phrases you might want to memorise: Female Circumcision, Sharia Law, Burkha, Anti-Equality, Biggoted, Misogynist, Arrogant.
Christianity (Including Catholicism)
A few words and phrases: Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Collection Plate, Solid Gold Church Decorations, Racism, Native Americans, George Bush, Slavery.
Judaism
Words-N-Phrases: Circumcision, Kosher (WTF?!?!), Jesus, Crucifiction.
Essentially, what you're doing, is assuming that the actions of the worst people in a given religion portray the enteirty(sp) of that religion. The majority of the people of each of the stated religions are nowhere near as fanatical or forceful in their beliefs as you make them out to be.
And even by you're reasoning, you've still got nothing on the Buddihsts.
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Originally posted by an0n
Actually, that's the one thing I hate more than organised religion; People who say they follow an organised religion, but are really just mildly fond of the ideas and lighter aspects of the religion.
Y'know, like an Amish guy with a torch.
Thats exactly the best way to do it. Pick and choose the best from each one, and in the end you have something superior to any one. Unless ofcourse, you want to further propagate the short-commings of each religion, in which case you should adhere to the worst aspects of your chosen faith
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Originally posted by an0n
Islam
So you've got nothing against a religion which the proliferation of civilized beliefs is directly opposed to? You've got nothing against the idea that it's okay to beat women, stoned people to death, kill people for minor crimes, whip people in public. A religion that has begun to encourage violence against 'non-believe heathens'. A religion that has stated many times that, unlike Christianity and other major religions, it will actively and unrelentingly try to force its beliefs on people, barraging them with propoganda until they cave.
uhm, no, in the original Koran explanation this wasn't mentioned, and IIRC, Islamits aren't even allowed to try and actively convert non-belivers
Christianity (Including Catholicism)
What the **** are you talking about? The passive anti-semitic values of the Christian religion lead to the annihilation of 6 million Jews. Oh, and let's not forget the lovely past of this rich and colourful religion. Anyone remember the Dark Ages? Well that's when most of the Bible, which all Christians in some form follow, was rewritten to suit the coffers of the church and its corrupt, immoral, megalomaniacle leaders. The entire religion, over the past 2000 years, has been turned into one big cash cow. Hell, the Catholic church made an agreement with the Nazis that they wouldn't tell Catholics world-wide to fight them as long as the Nazi's left the Catholics alone. Burning the Earth in exchange for a fire-proof bunker, so to speak. And let's not forget that for a hell of a long time, the Church supported the slave trade.
A few words and phrases: Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Collection Plate, Solid Gold Church Decorations, Racism, Native Americans, George Bush, Slavery.
i pretty much agree, accpet for some good things the church did, like providing easy commnity forming for social services. where the government didn't do that.
Judaism
One of the oldest religions in the world. Aside from the odd wierdness (Kosher, what the **** is up with that?)
AFAIK, it is basicly sanitary and hygiene stuff driven to the extreme. and as for religions which don't eat a certain animal, you can be pretty shure that at the time the religion was invented the animal either spreaded desease or was frigging expensive.
I've got nothing against the Jewish faith, as such. But there are a few niggling things I don't like. For one, they refused to support the Kaiser during WW1, which, oddly enough, lead to Hitler having a slight dislike for them and thus allowed Himmler to go crazy and laughter them. There's also the fact that the entire media industry (especially the movie industry) is run by Jews and forces their views down the throats of the populous. Granted, it's eased up of late due to a resurgence of liberal media, but it's still there. How many blacks, or tramps, or gays did you see in Schindlers List? When was the last time you saw Hitler portrayed as a man, because, despite what you've been lead to believe, he wasn't a psychopath. At one time he was merely a struggling artist, a loyal German soldier and a devoted family man, but do you see any of this on TV or in the movies? No. Because the Jews control the films and the TV. And you can bet they'll be riding the old "We were badly persecuted" wagon for...ooooh...the next few thousand years.
indeed, jews shouldn't be the only group to be remembered when Hitlers acts are discused
I'm not even going to get started on Palestine and how they, a 50 year old country, are trying to annihilate Palestine, one of the oldest nations in the world IIRC. Also, if they're such a damn nice bunch of people, why the **** does everyone keep trying to wipe them out? The Egyptians, the Romans, the Nazi's, the Palestinians..... Two words: Smoke, Fire.
don't get me started on that one, i agree there
Words-N-Phrases: Circumcision, Kosher (WTF?!?!), Jesus, Crucifiction. [/B]
circumcision, :wtf:
kosher, mentioned earlier
Jesus was just a Jewish fanatic who thought he was the great profet or something. don't get me on this, my bible knowledge and that of the jewish bible is very limited. what i know about this part is what i picked up by reading books on ancient rome.
and weren't it the romans who crucified runaway slaves, and used that on Christians to let them see how low they were?
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Originally posted by an0n
Judaism
One of the oldest religions in the world. Aside from the odd wierdness (Kosher, what the **** is up with that?) I've got nothing against the Jewish faith, as such. But there are a few niggling things I don't like. For one, they refused to support the Kaiser during WW1, which, oddly enough, lead to Hitler having a slight dislike for them and thus allowed Himmler to go crazy and laughter them. There's also the fact that the entire media industry (especially the movie industry) is run by Jews and forces their views down the throats of the populous. Granted, it's eased up of late due to a resurgence of liberal media, but it's still there. How many blacks, or tramps, or gays did you see in Schindlers List? When was the last time you saw Hitler portrayed as a man, because, despite what you've been lead to believe, he wasn't a psychopath. At one time he was merely a struggling artist, a loyal German soldier and a devoted family man, but do you see any of this on TV or in the movies? No. Because the Jews control the films and the TV. And you can bet they'll be riding the old "We were badly persecuted" wagon for...ooooh...the next few thousand years. I'm not even going to get started on Palestine and how they, a 50 year old country, are trying to annihilate Palestine, one of the oldest nations in the world IIRC. Also, if they're such a damn nice bunch of people, why the **** does everyone keep trying to wipe them out? The Egyptians, the Romans, the Nazi's, the Palestinians..... Two words: Smoke, Fire.
Words-N-Phrases: Circumcision, Kosher (WTF?!?!), Jesus, Crucifiction.
The Jews control the media? the banks too? its all one big, circumcised consipracy eh? As for Hitler, his pros include: loved his mother, loved his country. His cons go something like: killed 6 millions innocents and caused (by starting WW2) the deaths of over 10 million more. His bad side slightly outweighs his good. His actions speak for themselves, that is to say that is human side is overshadowed by his evil, so why should you try to portray something that is disproprionate to reality?
As for everyone hating the Jews. There are MANY reasons why people hate each other. Fear, jealousy, convenience etc etc. By your rationale, every kid thats beaten by their drunken dad must have done something to deserve it eh? If you get punished, you deserve it right?
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Originally posted by Rictor
...............killed 6 millions innocents and caused (by starting WW2) the deaths of over 10 million more. His bad side slightly outweighs his good. His actions speak for themselves, that is to say that is human side is overshadowed by his evil, so why should you try to portray something that is disproprionate to reality?
IIRC, 18 million people died in the trenches in WW1. And 18 > 16. Civillians or not, they were still people.
Also, I do believe the American had their own nice little death-camps for the Japs. But how often do you hear about those?
As for everyone hating the Jews. There are MANY reasons why people hate each other. Fear, jealousy, convenience etc etc. By your rationale, every kid thats beaten by their drunken dad must have done something to deserve it eh? If you get punished, you deserve it right?
Yup. Pretty much. If your parents beat you, they're obvliously a little retarded, so it's simply Darwinism weeding out the junk.
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And thats just about wraps this conversation up.
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[last-word]Thought it might.[/last-word]
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Originally posted by an0n
Also, I do believe the American had their own nice little death-camps for the Japs. But how often do you hear about those?
Concentration / isolation camps, yes. Death / mass execution centers, no.
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Originally posted by Rictor
The Jews control the media? the banks too?
Actually, that's about true. But well, that means they're hard working people, and there's nothing bad with that, since they don't really use the power they could gain from that. If people aren't happy with it, well, they had to do better. they didn't, their loss.
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Originally posted by JC Denton
Concentration / isolation camps, yes. Death / mass execution centers, no.
Personally, I'd rather be shot in the head by a Nazi than starved to death by an American.
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Personally, I could never wrap my head around why there was never any real resistance to the Holocaust. Warsaw was pretty much it. I mean, ****, man, any self-respecting people had better be prepared to defend themselves in the face of total annihilation, or there's something seriously wrong with them. Even if it's a futile fight, it's still one well worth it...
Anyway. This "conversation" is lame, with people on both sides saying utterly stupid things. I don't know if an0n is being dumb so that everyone else will feel comfortable spouting fatuous things, too, but this is not entertaining me nearly enough.
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Yeah, I've always wondered about that whole pacifism issue. Guess it was really hard to believe that it was actually happening...
An as for anon, well after he said that all kids who get beat deserve it, I kind of knew he was either bull****ting or was crazy, either way, it hard to carry on a meaninful conversation
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This from the guy who wants to form a guerilla army and blow up a boarding school-cum-prison sometime maybe slightly after middle age?
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I honestly dont see the relation. Well, except that both me and anon encourage violence in some situations. But if you find that its the same to advocate taking out a prison camp that places kids in detention against their will and to advoate chil abuse, go ahead cause I really doubt either one of you are serious on the issue.
Violence is a means to an end. It makes the whole deal easier to fathom if there is a noble end to accomplish. For example, killing Hitler to (suposedly) prevent the Holocaust is not the same a killing a convenience store clerk in a petty robbery. The better the end, the more justified the means.
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Does it ever get frustrating to not understand anything that's going on around you 9/10 of the time?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Personally, I could never wrap my head around why there was never any real resistance to the Holocaust. Warsaw was pretty much it. I mean, ****, man, any self-respecting people had better be prepared to defend themselves in the face of total annihilation, or there's something seriously wrong with them. Even if it's a futile fight, it's still one well worth it...
simple: they just didn't know. they thought they would do manual labor ( and it's actually how it started. the extermination plan came much later, around the end of the war ).
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When we watched a video in RS about the Holocaust a few years ago, I could not understand why there was so little resistance, even in the camps. There must have been at least 20 prisoners per guard, and so they could probably have overpowered them.
Trouble is, a high percentage of them would have been killed trying, but if they stayed they'd have been killed anyway.
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simple...
A: they feared for thier lives
B: They Had absolutely no idea they were gonna get gassed
C: 20 a guard perhaps in the camp, but there were plenty more outside plus the towers with machine guns..
hitler was an insane man indeed...
it will be a sad day indeed when someone break's hitler's record on genocide:doubt:
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Originally posted by Turnsky
simple...
A: they feared for thier lives
B: They Had absolutely no idea they were gonna get gassed
C: 20 a guard perhaps in the camp, but there were plenty more outside plus the towers with machine guns..
D: most guards were not among the prisoners, that was reserved to the capos. The only real guards were those in the towers, out of reach, with barbed wired barriers between them and the camp
E: when the mass murdering started, they were already so weak and, generally, sick, that they could hardly even walk, so starting a rebellion, even if the will was there, they just couldn't. five of them wouldn't have the strengh to take on a single unarmed guard. T
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i forgot about those...
WWII was certainly a cruel war by many respects..
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It sure was. Make a search for "Oradour sur Glane".
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hmm..
my grandfather served as in clean-up crew in hiroshima.. a fortnight after the bomb was dropped...
nasty..
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Why the **** haven't these kids rebelled on their own?!? I mean, they're obviously fairly rebellious to begin with, they probably have some idea of their rights, and while they might not have many, Psychologial toruture can't be included as something acceptable.
You make the mistake of confusing rebellion with pseudo rebellion. It would require condiderasble dedication and intelligence to be unaffected by one of these places and the techniques used.Being deliberately confrontational and agressive in a carefully controlled environment such as that are likely to get you towing the party line (and believing it) in less than five minutes.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1930418019/qid=1057148065/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-4616375-1015105?v=glance&s=books#product-details <- This is quite an intersting read.
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Indeed. You ever noticed how people tend to rebel only in fashionable ways?
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Rebellion is bull-****.
It's usually just an anti-social minority trying to make waves.
And the way to survive in one of those places, or any place for that matter, with your unremitting hatred for all life intact is simply to be uber-conformist.
Know your enemy and know yourself.
If they don't know you're still a little ****, they won't try to change you and thus you can keep being a little **** once they let you out. That is, as long as you know you're still a little ****.
Follow the rules and wait for the system to drop its guard and show a weakness, then attack it with everything you've got.
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The system's weakness is that everyone chooses to conform. It's the same as everywhere else in the world- there aren't nearly enough guards, et al. to stop the people (or the "students" in this case) from rising up and taking what they want, there's only the illusion that there is nothing they can do- which leads to conformity and self-policing. This is all pretty basic stuff, have you never seen how the government operates?
There has never been a large-scale rulership in all of history that could enforce its will regardless of whether the people dissented or not. The tyrrany of government relies on the fact that, given a choice, only one out of a million will not simply accept the status quo for the same reasons you stated above.
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No, the system's weakness is that they let you out when you appear to be 'cured' and that the people who run it are all dumb ****ers.
You start off being all rebellious and '**** this'. Keep that up for a week. Then be all resigned and quietly indignant. Then about a week later, start following the rules and climbing your way up the levels. Once you're at a level 6 or whatever, you turn on the other kids and start treating them as bad as the guards do. This endears the guards to you. From there you either get let out or offered a job.
Personally, I'd keep it up till I was 18 then ask to be dropped off at some nice sunny beach instead of being returned home.
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The guards don't do most of the maltreatment, the kids do. This is all in there, did you read it? You wouldn't be anything special, and in a group of 100 brainwashed Gestapo drones the insincerity of your disgusting actions would stick out like a thumb possessed by the demon of sticking-out, and they wouldn't let you out until you really were gone. Like I said, this is a tried-and-true system used all over the world- the results of attempts such as your hypothetical one can be seen historically. They only rarely succeed.
You can't just play the good little boy- how do you think all the people who end up drones turned out that way? They finally cooperated, and they didn't start it with the honest intent to be lobotomized. They thought they could "cheat the system" by doing exactly what the system wanted- and, of course, in attempting to do so, they were doing just what the system wanted. They can **** with you to no end, but they can't get into your head until you open the door and let them right in.
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Yeah, but I'm special.
I can view any number of opinions and personalities wooshing through my head objectively through hundreds of levels.
I'll be like:
Level 1 - That's cool.
Level 2 - Hmm. I'm only thinking that because of social pressures.
Level 3 - God, I think with some complicated language.
Level 4 - Why's he refering to God? I think he's just as socially influenced as the first guy.
Level 3 - **** you.
Level 5 - **** both of you.
Level 1 - Uh, guys. It's still cool.
Level 12 - I'm sick of you dick-heads fighting. Go back to sleep so I can subconciously conjour images of Delta Goodrem.
Level 2 - Delta goodrem is a whore.
Level 12 - WHAT!?! Right, you're a ****ing dead man.
Level 2 - Bring it on, *****.
Level 1 - Guys....
Level 7 - You're not still arguing this **** are you.
Level 8 - Stop swearing!
Level N - Right. **** this. *sleep*
Level 1 - [Level 1 - Connection Reset By Peer]
Level 12 - [Level 12 - Connection Reset By Peer]
Level 5 - [Level 5 - Connection Reset By Peer]
Level 3 - [Level 3 - Connection Reset By Peer]
Level 8 - [Level 8 - Connection Reset By Peer]
_________________________________
*Disconnected. - Connection Reset By Peer[/size]
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http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/5925270.htm
http://jamaicaobserver.com/news/html/20030531T210000-0500_44514_OBS_US_YOUTHS_REBEL_AT_HARSH_SCHOOL_IN_COSTA_RICA.asp
Perhaps we misjudged them.
http://www.wwasp.com/thesource.htm This is the 'info' straight from the horse's mouth. (It would definitely be extremely foolish and naughty to d.o.s. it using and infinate self replicating perl script that overloaded their server with gazillions of simultanious requests)
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Originally posted by an0n
Yeah, but I'm special.
yeah, funilly enough, I think that too, my friends too, and even my dog ( which I don't have, so he must be right ) think he's special.
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I'm not a retard. I'm a real boy.
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Yeah, yeah, Big Jim, I get you, boy.
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*goes 'Old Yeller' on Venom*
Haha. That film was frikken awesome.
"No, ma. He's my dog. I'll do it...........*BOOM*"
I still think they shoulda had it maul the little kid who was trying to let it out. I mean, how dumb do you wanna be? A big-ass dog is snarling and barking at him so he tries to open the door? He deserved to be savaged.
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yes, special,
you'd last about four years, get to level 5 three or four times then you'd crack. by the end of the fith year you would be quite subserviant to authority, note I didn't say act subserviant
there have been a few of these riots there was one near the wwasps HQ, and the one in costa rico, I think there was another one somewere else.
btw this thing is headed in Utah, the same state that is represented by senitor Orin Hatch (of "DL my music and I'll blow up your fancy compu-thingy...... somehow..." fame), is not that ironic?
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Shamelessly taken from the wwasp site
Most Programs and Schools in the Association provide an exclusive warranty.
Exclusive Warranty
Most Programs and Schools in the World Wide Association offer an exclusive Warranty. Students who have met the criteria for successful completion from one of our facilities may be re-admitted to the Program or School for up to 60 days of free tuition, if he or she should slip into old attitude or behavior patterns before the age of 18.
Does anyone else think that this is really messed up? I mean, they're putting a warranty on KIDS!
Shamelessly taken from the Tranquility Bay (http://www.tranquilitybay.org/) site
In the FAQ section I found this.Question: What role does the U.S. Embassy take with Tranquility Bay?
Answer: All children who are U.S. Citizens visit the Embassy to obtain their passport. The Embassy visits the facility unannounced approximately six times per year, if not more. These individuals are from The American Citizens Services Section of the Embassy. Their primary goal is to make sure the students are healthy and being taken care of properly. While they cannot endorse the program nor make any recommendations, positive or negative, we feel they provide a valuable service. In addition to this all children must be registered with the U.S. Embassy for emergency purposes and to verify their whereabouts. This does not mean they give out information to anyone other than the child's parents.
Ok so the 'American Citizens Services Section of the Embassy' is suppose to make sure the kids are fed and taken care of? But at the same time they can't make any endorsment positive or negative? How on earth are you suppose to shut the place down unless you give it some negative endorsments?
*illogical statments, brain overload, restart in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....*
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Originally posted by Bobboau
btw this thing is headed in Utah, the same state that is represented by senitor Orin Hatch (of "DL my music and I'll blow up your fancy compu-thingy...... somehow..." fame), is not that ironic?
He's also the genius that said 'The death penalty is our way of respecting the sanctity of life'.
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Does anyone else see a resemblance between this and the Nazi labor camps back in WWII? It seems to me that such a program would produce more psycotics and serial killers than good obedient children. Thats just me however.
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Nazi labour camps, Soviet GULAG's, you name it.
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Utah's the wierd state. It doesn't attract as much attention as California, but the Mormons there are sorta like legitmized Raelians, and they run the place.
They're kinda fun to watch, though, even if they're scary.
Oh, and if you're a Mormon here and you're offended, that's fine. It's my opinion of what I've seen of y'all, I ain't gonna apologize for it. if you have an explanation for the secret underwear and all that **** you're perfectly free to try and change my mind.
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the... secret underwear? :wtf:
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It's this wierd traditional underwear some groups of Mormons have that no outsider is supposed to see or wear. I forget if it has a special name or not, but you can look it up- for a secret it's fairly commonly discussed, primarily among people wondering at how bizarre your belief system can get before you are, officially, a movie star.
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See I'd invent a religion but it seems like all the real good ideas are taken.
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Darn it people!
Some of your ideas and knowabouts are so polarized, that I have to believe that you're unconscously agreeing to all the things your parents and the teachers you actually did respect teach you.
Please don't just object outright since I know it's true for 99.99% of the population.
Substitute the fatherly/motherly figures above with someone else, but the result's almost the same.
I'm one of that retarded 0.01% who can't jsut accept anything unless they have chewed themselves through it...so far I'm still looking for something that would "live through the process".
I'm another f***en nihilist or cynic like an0n except that I'm actually looking for something....I wonder what.
Religion.
Damn, why do people always have to treat it something like the aspect of which football team you support.
I'm not degradign the actual faith of people, but for almost 6000 years it was religion alone that could bring order to this thing we call life.
It wasn't social order. I wasn't physical order, or emotional order at all.
It was just a feeling that there's some kind of order and for that sake you can go along, the sky's not gona fall on you.
What we call polytheism is actually polydeism - the European/Western person grown up in a Judeau/Christian world( this once again has nothing to do with your belief!) - has no chance of understanding it or hinduism or shintoism or buddhism for instance.
In that sense, the world is not overseen or run by some kind of entity.
The actual world is nothing but a manifestation of those entities. Your very heartbeat is a spirit of a deus, the air you breath is another one, so is the ground beneath you feet.
A Western person used to the idea that things are simply what you see can't understand.
Monotheism - Theism! Coming from Theos = an entity uniting all the aspects of all deuses in a single vessel - is once agian not that easy to understand from a modern point of view.
It was God, who's benevolence created your existence, it was his will that made the world around you.
This is the reason I'm pissed when people like an0n keep yeepping about how religion is kust a cancer of the human mind and sh***....
Nevermind, but there's more to it than you'd imagine.
The Christian religions brought a sense of collectivism into the fragmented world of the Romans it once again united people after individualism has torn the civilization apart.
Later the Reformation stripped that gigantomanion monster from its cape and purged light into its dogmatic darknes.
Yes the inquisition was a bloody bad thing, but for heaven sake you're in the Middle Age! The ancient knowledge of the ancient times is transferred only thanks to your hated muslims, who were actually the most enlightened people of their time.
The Anti-Refomation actually brought the changes that Luther wanted in the churh, moreover they once again become leaders in research and literature, instead conservatism the Church was once again moving forward - in the name of keeping traditions!
The islam you're refering to is more a product of the rigid tribal order that was their only viable way of living rather than the Koran.
As for our pitty self - for Heaven's sake why the Hell would we be special - we're nothing but another pice on the chessboard of fates, but once or match is done we're all going back to the same box. Kings and pawns alike.
That's also the lesson that Hitler haters should learn.
Hitlern could have been the angry neighbour next door. It doesn't take special meneance to kill people - it's being done even in our so called "enlightened" age.
In the Middle age killing a man was fairly not an issue.
You speak of the Jews as if they were special.
They are NOT!...and that's their tragedy for they still had to die for it.
The Jews rigidly kept with their customs, as a result they couldn't be assimilated into the Middle Age and Early Industrial societies.
As a result they were also the ones to be in the none conventinal frowned upon professions, that later proved vital to society.
I'm speaking of the modern middle class, that created the new aristorcarcy of the modern era.
What people can't get in their heads is that Jews got into high and intelectual positions because their customs and the societies relentless hostility forced them to.
There was noi Jewish consiration now or ever.
If these people ifluence our world in manners that you distate, than for Christ's sake go out, and out do them!
Compete them, learn more, be better and push your own traditions and ideas forth!
This same rigidnes is the reason why they could be slaughtered in the concentration camps - and yes. THEY DID KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
Never the less they went on in good manner - "properly".
For once pleas read a book:
Imre Kertész: Sorstalanság.
It just won the Nobel Prize in Literature, so it might be worth a read...
The same happens to people in these re-education camps.
They **** their own minds, 'cause no one's inherently rebellious.
The so called rebels are part of a movement that identifies itself with the opposition of the current social stuckture...but that's the weaknes, they rarely have another picture in mind to put forth instead the one they're about to destroy.
True rebels never waved their flags high, and shouted with the mass.
They were the few who saw the cancer in the society built on the skeleton of idealism of their time, sheated with the muscles of individualims.
They were the ones who tore open the body and gazed into the abbsy beyond, the people who had the courige to step into the vacum of soul and put forth their own heart in hope of filling it.
Camus, Faughtwangler, Nietzche, Marx, Engels, Thomas Mann...
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Originally posted by Flaser
It was God, who's benevolence created your existence, it was his will that made the world around you.
This is the reason I'm pissed when people like an0n keep yeepping about how religion is kust a cancer of the human mind and sh***....
I'm going to ignore the fact that you're post was excessively long and instead focus on this little nugget and say: You're a dumbass.
Prove to me that God made me and my world and I will pray to the heavens for forgiveness. Until then, **** God.......and the winged horse he rode in on.
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My post was long because you boy/girls/shemale/whatever/retarded bastard were agonising over a bit of a story, rather than taking a view at the whole picture..
I f**** hate people who takes peaces and bits of info Out of Context and start their trashing with words...
Every singe damn part of a statement is a double-edged sword, and if you keep swinging it you'll end up cutting your own fundaments as well, without even knowing.
As for the second part of your last post....
NO f***in comment
To admins and anyone who cares...
I'm sorry, but sometimes there are values of ignorance and/or self-righteousness that tick me over the edge...I'm sorrym, but I felt a strong emotional motivation for this retarded and unblemished rant.
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Flaser, how can you expect to be taken seriously when you start an argument with the phrase 'darn it'?
Any way, how come this thread's not dead yet? It's lasted two days longer than I'd given it...
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Flaser, how can you expect to be taken seriously when you start an argument with the phrase 'darn it'?
Any way, how come this thread's not dead yet? It's lasted two days longer than I'd given it...
You have a valid point DG, though I still believe, that people shouldn't be as lazy as not to read someone's post.
Even if I tend to start with fool sounding comments, at least an0n could restrain himself from being a dumbass once in a while - for something's that he actually values sake he could read a post from begining to end, regardles lenght and then complain...
I'm ranting once again, but I'm a FOOL, for I thought an0n would actually be sensibel once...not that anyone minds what goes on this thread anyway.
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Ok, enough with this. Next time I see this kind of flaming and insults I'll ban the lot of you.