Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Martinus on July 09, 2003, 09:08:05 am
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[color=66ff00]OK since we have a lot of people who are excited about this lets kick off the plot thread. Unfortunately those who are looking for a 50 mission behemoth can calm down for a minute, I think we should keep this one more realistic for the present. 10 missions is the current limit unless someone can give me a very good reason to choose a bigger number.
As such your plot proposals will have to be restricted to this mission limit or very close to it. The plot of course can be anything of your choosing, but it has to take place in the freespace universe and it has to be flexible enough to cope with the fact that we're working with a new shipset, so describe everything in terms of fighters, bombers and whatever 'class' of capship. Any special ship types will have to be well described in order to have a chance of being included, you need a transport or a science vessel then describe it's attributes lucidly.
I'd also highly advise that you make your plot open ended, it gives us space for further expansion. I am of course completely open to suggestion so if anyone has any ideas they think would be useful/fun/necessary then post them here and we'll see what the community consensus is.
Remember we're looking for originality here, unleash your imagination. :nod:
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How detailed/revealing do you want us to get? After all, if everyone knows what's going to happen, there's no fun. But if only a few people know what's going to happen, it's not a community project, just a big campaign.
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Make people send it to a email address that only a "jury" that is yet to be chosen can visit.
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I apply my OTT story and ships :p
nah, seriously, I have no idea for a FS2 story anymore.
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Originally posted by Venom
I apply my OTT story and ships :p
[color=66ff00]Don't even joke about that. ;)
I like the idea of the jury, perhaps if the jury was to split the missions up between groups of modders that only worked on single mission we could keep some air of secrecy to the story?
Who would you guys want on a possible jury?
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pretty much some randomly chosen volunteers. of course, there should be some category's, like modders, fredders, storywriters, users, and some admin.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Don't even joke about that. ;)
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well, it'll go to waste anyway, so it doesn't matter :p
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We could always recruit everybody to work on BWO. :nervous:
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Shall we ban the ordinary cliches?
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can i sunmit something i am going to use for a campaign?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Shall we ban the ordinary cliches?
[color=66ff00]There's no question that originality is key to this, people are more likely to play an interesting and engaging campaign.
Kasperl: Can be be any clearer?
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me and solatar got an idea from KT about using project Seed, a piece of story from Derelict IIRC.
i really like the idea, it just needs to be deepened out a little.
edit: it's from BWO
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Hows about having the GTVA over-run by Shivans and largly wiped out bar a few fortified systems.
Then the campaign puts you as an SOC operative. You go about blowing up Shivans and doing recon for a mission or three, then you find out about some Shivan shipyard that's almost complete so you and your elite SOC buddies set off to destroy it. The finale mission being something akin to one of the later Starlancer missions where you use hijacked super-bombers and sneak through the fleet doing waypoints, then you move into position under the invincible super-ship, torpedo the **** out of it and run like hell. Then the fleet jumps in and wipes out the rest of the fleet and the yards.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
How detailed/revealing do you want us to get? After all, if everyone knows what's going to happen, there's no fun. But if only a few people know what's going to happen, it's not a community project, just a big campaign.
:nod:
Isn't it kind of hard to submit ideas though? At least if you have your own post FS2 campaign going? I mean, as much as I know me or whatever project leader can't be as canon, hot, good, wahtever as V, still, the campaign you make more or less feels like your FS3. That having been said, you'd then need to either submit your campaign idea, thus spoiling your own stuff, or come up with a second idea, which is either 'the other idea that you had in mind, but wasn't as good as your campaign idea' or its better, and puts your own story to shame.
I feel like i'm going off on a tangent here, so what I'm saying is, why not get together as a sort of 'council' or commitee or whatever, and do it old school. Throw in all the cool story ideas, plot twists you'd like to see, things happen, whatever, and we can logically string something out. Make it flow, not just through something together that's uber cool looking and fun to play, but make it a viable part of the FS timeline. And on the previous note, by creating the sort of melting pot, the Project becomes a community project, not 1 guy's really good idea, which would essentially be just any other campaign. You want something like this to be the communities baby, that way no one is seemingly ditching their own creations.
Now for the story, there's a few things I'd like to bring up to begin with. Whatever we eventually do come up with, imposing limits now isn't going to do much good. Yeah, be realistic, but 10 missions is a lot less room to play with than you think. That seems more of an intro imho, or a first half. Anyways: Really we should decide where the story is going to go, what is this going to be? Do we want it to be another FS2, comming in with questions, and leaving with a lot more? Or are we going to conclude the series to speak, make a tell all story that wraps everything up and ties all the loose ends? Are we going to bring in new races, make a huge jump in the timeline, etc. ?
I guess the main question I have to everyone as a whole, are we aiming for an Action packed sequel, or an ending to the series?
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Plotline by committee? Great idea! Hitting yourself in the groin with a mallet repeatedly in the hopes that candy might come out! Whee! Dipping your head in sulfuric acid? Fantastic!
Could be something done from the Sol side running concurrent to FS2 (a bit cliched, but would allow a lot more freedom in the plot), something like an0n's idea (though I think there's a campaign doing that)... anyway, should definitely have humanity back solidly as the underdog again, which wasn't really the case in FS2.
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I'd say 30 missions is a better idea.
10 missions is like having 10 15 minute TV episodes to explain the entire cause and history of World War II.
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Maeg specifically indicated a need/hope for open-ended plots, so a 10 mission "intro-plot" to a bigger piece would be the best way to approach this imo.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Plotline by committee? Great idea! Hitting yourself in the groin with a mallet repeatedly in the hopes that candy might come out! Whee! Dipping your head in sulfuric acid? Fantastic!
:blah:
Well good luck then. Odds are it'll degenerate into an RPG fight between you or Tiara and someone else just like everything else around here does.
Could be something done from the Sol side running concurrent to FS2 (a bit cliched, but would allow a lot more freedom in the plot), something like an0n's idea (though I think there's a campaign doing that)... anyway, should definitely have humanity back solidly as the underdog again, which wasn't really the case in FS2. [/B]
And yeah, that'd more or less be Mindgames.
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Are you after a back story, or mission outlines? I've almost finished a couple of Timelines for my entry, I've still got some more specific information segments to do up.
Actually...couldn't that solve the problem? If the ideas and backstories are public domain, so people could choose from those, and get an accepted general idea, but the actual mission outlines are restricted to the staffers?
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First order of business. It will star me, pilot ordinaire!
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Actually, you'll be the clumsy sidekick.:p
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Yeap, in the intro.
You're the next lieutenant Ash.
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hmm... we could hide some forum members in it (hey, it's a forum project right!?) ;)
Thunder could be an admiral on some super capship, while we have uber-evil antagonist be Shrike with Carl as shivan evil leader! and an0n would be the converted shivan ace, stryke 9 being some pirate admiral.... and so on.....
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Yarr! Yarr, I say, for the time be high for plunder!
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(http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/GIFs/SE16GIFs/SE16_Wave&Spectrum.GIF)
EDIT: TURN DYNAMIC TARGETS FOR IMG TAGS ON!!!!!!
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:wtf:
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What? It's a 'mwuahaha' in Shivan.
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Ah. I was guessing it was the representation of "**** you" or something recorded.
That could have been better explained.:p
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Hmmm. Now there's an idea.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
:nod:
Isn't it kind of hard to submit ideas though? At least if you have your own post FS2 campaign going? I mean, as much as I know me or whatever project leader can't be as canon, hot, good, wahtever as V, still, the campaign you make more or less feels like your FS3. That having been said, you'd then need to either submit your campaign idea, thus spoiling your own stuff, or come up with a second idea, which is either 'the other idea that you had in mind, but wasn't as good as your campaign idea' or its better, and puts your own story to shame.
Not neccesarily. My idea is totally different to the plotline for TI, and the plotline for my personal FS3 project. I wont say its better or worse, just very different. IT deals with entirely separate potential repercussions of Capella - if Capella had caused a massive Economic recession, if the NTF systems were still dangerous to traverse, and if the explosion of Capellea screwed with gravity and subspace in the surrounding areas, then TI would or could have happened in the Epsilon Pegasi area in 2378. If, however, the Capellan reugees were settled quickly7, the economy stabilized without too much damage and the GTVA retained control fairly well, then my other idea could have happened in the core systems in 2389.
Since they occur in different times, different time lines, different places etc. they each have their own sets of potential outcomes anbd events, and so don't actually infringe on each other too much.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Actually...couldn't that solve the problem? If the ideas and backstories are public domain, so people could choose from those, and get an accepted general idea, but the actual mission outlines are restricted to the staffers?
Bassically what I was trying to say :p
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Bassically what I was trying to say :p
You should always try to be really simple around here - after all, I have to understand it a some point, soo...
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Meh :p
*has idea*
Why not make an HLP campaign? I.e. we do all kinds of fun ****. Stryke and his Pirate Clan, Shrike and his lackey's as GTVI/HLP Space Command, an0n as himself, etc. :D
We could do it in the FS universe, or just do it in the Hard Light Universe using FS ships. HL universe ala a Sequel-esque (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,13534.0.html) type thing (keeping it easy for BW to understand ;) ).
Tis' actually something I always thought would be cool, a million times better than an RPG (;)), No bickering on how to do FS3 (Well a proper one :D), it's the community, and it's freespace ;7
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Tis' actually something I always thought would be cool, a million times better than an RPG (;)),
*beats KT to bloody pulp*
If you people don't like the RPG thing don't make me work my arse off to rebuild it.
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Can't take a joke missy? T'was only kidding :) although I didn't know I spoke for everyone :p
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Can't take a joke missy? T'was only kidding :) although I didn't know I spoke for everyone :p
Meh... just woke up... :p
Well, back on-topic please.
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And I'm going to bed :p
In Regards to an HLP Campaign:
We could take note from the RPG and have each person submit what they'd like their Avatar to be(wether we do it in the FS Universe or the HLP universe). After we get A general universe going, I have a few ideas on how we could do it....
1) We come up with a general story line filled with all the pettiness, bickering, war and drama we have here of course. We include everyone as best as we can.
2) Anyone/everyone can fred the own mission (unless this was already the idea as a community project) of what they'd like to see happen to their character and what it does in the universe, although the plot lines would have to be expressed and approved so that they don't conflict with other peoples. And if say I want to have a mission where my Evil Teddy-Bear men of doom attack Petrarch's space station while he is sleeping, then I need to work on the mission plot line with Petrarch ahead of time to make sure he agrees with everything. I think this idea is alright, but kinda messy.
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ok one thing ...... :wtf:
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
And I'm going to bed :p
In Regards to an HLP Campaign:
We could take note from the RPG and have each person submit what they'd like their Avatar to be(wether we do it in the FS Universe or the HLP universe). After we get A general universe going, I have a few ideas on how we could do it....
ok... odd, but see RPG art for references on avatars:thepimp:
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[color=66ff00]OK, working backwards...
I don't think a community based campaign a la HLP RPG would be a good idea, one of the main aims of this is to get in fresh blood. New players won't know the people here or their personas so it could all lead to a clique-ish campaign which whilst probably very funny would not be ideal.
The possibility of making references to the people here has merit provided it's used carefully, the odd bit of 'inside' comedy would be good provided it does not detract from the main story or the gameplay.
Also a few of you have shown concern about the possibility of the plot being chosen by a jury/council/whatever, as I said before I think the idea has merit but I'm open to suggestion so it is not already decided, this thread is both an attempt to get some ideas flowing and an indicator of who's actually interested in the project. The model ideas thread is already quite popular and we have a number of good concepts in there so things are looking positive IMHO.
Next the 10 mission limit: I know a lot of you have great ideas for campaigns, that is why I stated that:
1. The plot should be open ended to allow expansion.
2. The 10 missions would be a starter.
At the current time you might notice that FREDders are a rare breed, we already have a lot of hosted projects here, to take talent from them for any period of time would be destructive to the campaigns and HLP as a whole, as I'm sure a lot of you are excited about what your fellow modders are going to release.
10 missions does not put a strain on anyone, it's a good way to set the campaign up (and thus get more people interested if it is successful).
10 missions I think is realistic at present.
Anyone have any serious grievances with any of the above? State them now or forever hold your tounge. ;)
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Originally posted by an0n
(http://www.sfu.ca/sca/Manuals/GIFs/SE16GIFs/SE16_Wave&Spectrum.GIF)
Can I ask why you have someone linked from my school?
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Ph34r m3!!!!11111111111
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Originally posted by an0n
EDIT: TURN DYNAMIC TARGETS FOR IMG TAGS ON!!!!!!
interesting...
what's going on now?
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They've set the board to disallow the use of & and ? in IMG urls.
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You'll probably kill me for a post this long but:
Mission Structure: ( * notes a command briefing)
*xsm1-01: Alpha Centauri-Securing of node cluster (after destruction of SD Ravanna)
xsm1-02: Sirius-Strike on NTF flagship (defeat)
*xsm1-03: Alpha Centauri-Planetary defense
xsm1-04: Deneb-Blockade
*xsm1-05: Sirius-Vasudan battlegroup against NTD Cyrene
xsm2-01: Polaris-GTVA Colossus blockade of Regulus
*xsm2-02: Epsilon Pegasi-Defense of convoy bringing ammo for blockade against NTF runners
xsm2-03: Epsilon Pegasi-Colossus v.s. NTF runners (NTCv Jacquerie destroyed, transports, etc. as bonus)
xsm2-04: Polaris-Abandoned NTF cargo depot (assigned with Vasudans as Colossus hunts Bosch, ends with news of Sathannas #1/battle)
*xsm3-01: Knossos Nebula-Science vessel defense (reassigned to Colossus for nebular ops to find Bosch, faces Vasudan spec ops and Shivans)
xsm3-02: Knossos Nebula-Discovery of NTF cargo depot, defense of recovery ships (ends with news of Sathannas fleet)
*xsm3-03: Vega-Defense of GTD Nereid
Ship Continuity:
GTD Ithaca
xsm1-01:assigned
GTVA Colossus
xsm2-01:encountered in mission
xsm2-02:transferred
xsm3-03:encountered in mission
xsm3-04 (mentioned in cbrief)
xsm3-03 (destruction mentioned in cbrief)
Pretty much this is the second half of FreeSpace 2. Dealing with the NTF campaign while you were in the nebula, the Colossus' run towards Gamma Draconis engaging the NTF, the other nebular operations looking for Bosch, and finally defense of the GTD Nereid as it was sent to collapse the Capella nodes.
I wrote this up a while ago, it's 12 missions and requires no mods except for custom command briefings and squads as this is meant to cooincide with FS2.
If you're interested I can write out more detailed mission outlines. Most of these missions were designed to have a twist in mind.
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I suggested once that someone should do that as a campaign. Might make people hate the colossus less too :)
EDIT: I have a problem with the last mission though. The Nereid was sent in to Capella not from it so the shivans would have had to have entered through the node that Alpha 1 was protecting in the final mission (and we never saw any of them do that)
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actually, I'm in the process of/working on something that would cover 'everything you didn't play, but heard about' in the FS2 campaign. Not that that means you should through the idea out, just would kinda suck to have doubles...
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Originally posted by karajorma
I suggested once that someone should do that as a campaign. Might make people hate the colossus less too :)
EDIT: I have a problem with the last mission though. The Nereid was sent in to Capella not from it so the shivans would have had to have entered through the node that Alpha 1 was protecting in the final mission (and we never saw any of them do that)
As I said if the outline is liked I'll flesh it out.
Did I ever say you were fighting Shivans? ;)
Let's just say the mission idea in mind would be fun. Think less combat and more of a sort of puzzle/adventure thing. 'Nuff said.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
actually, I'm in the process of/working on something that would cover 'everything you didn't play, but heard about' in the FS2 campaign. Not that that means you should through the idea out, just would kinda suck to have doubles...
See, alternate perspectives are good.
Like what happens to the Ravens after you're re-assigned or something like that.
You could be Snipes' long-time SOC buddy and we could do some cross-overs with the FS2 missions.
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an0n, you did something good for a change and voiced one of the best idea's in this thread.
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I know i'm new here, but I do believe I have a nice plot idea that you could all use. The starter campaign can be 10 missions if you like, but it leaves possibilities to be expanded upon :)
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You're welcome to contribute Singh but remember that a lot of people have already started campaigns so yours may not be that original an idea.
Post a quick rundown of the idea and and lets have a look.
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Well, the idea is somewhat long, so i'll post the first part.
The setting is approx. 2 weeks after the collapse of the jump node at Capella and the GTVA is in the process of rebuilding not only it's fleets but the economy and the re-settling the refugees from the affected systems. Suffering is wide-spread, and Terran-Vasudan relations are strained to the limit due to the lack of space and resources. What few capital ships left are busy doing relief work, escorting and transporting supplies to all the affected systems, leaving few vessels for scouting or even routine patrol in some cases.
As alpha 1, you are re-assigned to the Epsilon Pegasi system, on patrol duty, monitoring the inflow and outflow of vessels to the region. This is where the first mission takes place, but I prefer not to go into details, so as not to spoil the surprise :)
Anyways, during the course of your watch (it's been a week since you were assigned here) nothing much has happened and the illusion is there that nothing is going on.
But then, aren't illusions made to shatter?
One fine day a GTT Argo vessel jumps out of the subspace node, and your wingmen try to hail it, but only silence is heard on the other end. When Alpha 2 notifies command, a strange signal is heard and the entire hull of the Argo simply falls apart. Command does not reply immediately, and everyone is surprised when a Vasudan transport jumps through the node and exactly the same thing occurs. This occurs twice more before Command responds, telling they have shut down the node for now, till they can find what exactly is happening. Alpha wing is to head back to the nearby installation, but cannot do so when a small Vasudan frigate jumps in and attacks them. The armor is at a weakened state, so Alpha wing can easily take care of the ship and destroys it almost immediately. This is followed soon after by a small Terran cruiser (fenris class) which was supposed to be assigned to Vega instead of Epsilon Pegasi. Again, it attacks Alpha and again, it is dealt with easily. A small group of fighters (alpha wing's replacements) jumps in and the pilots can be heard screaming about something over the radio, before silence follows and the fighters fall into pieces.
Command steps in then, closing down the node on the other side, preventing more ships from entering and the activity repeating itself. They also deploy delta wing from the nearby installation and Alpha wing is releaved.
The story continues a few days later, when reports of this come in from almost every other system. Ships might go into subspace nodes but never come out, and yet others appear where they are not supposed to be. It appears to be worse at the Alpha Centauri node, where the begginings of a new knossos project is located. The Ghost ships, as they now called, appear and disappear at random, jumping out of subspace portals and simply disintigrating. Some of these ships are decades old, dating back to the first war against the shivans, and were thought to have been lost in battle.
Alpha wing is re-assigned to Alpha Centauri, and heads to the Epsilon Pegasi node (at great risk) to jump out. But at the very last second, a large piece of debris comes out of the node. The debris is a derelict vessel, a GTD Orion to be exact. The derelict is totally intact and dates back 3 decades, and was assumed missing and/or destroyed. The hull doesn't fail on the derelict, but it appears totally and completely empy or abandoned. A argo is dispatched from the installation and arrives safely. They dock and a crew go onboard. However, during all of this a wing of Vasudan bombers and fighters jumps in from the node. These aren't dead fighters- they are all intact and the pilots respond, stating that they are here as relief forces. This is not confirmed by Command however, and the fighters attack almost immediately after, trying to distract the fighters here from the Bombers, who in turn are attacking the Argo and the derelict. A battle takes place and the Argo goes down- but not before they confirm that nobody is on the Orion, even though the lifepods and fighters are all still there.
The fighters leave, soon after both the Argo and the Destroyer have been destroyed, as mysteriously as they came. Whatever is happening here is definately not good. As alpha wing returns to the installation (again) they recieve a distress signal from in-system, which is the basis for the next mission.
That's all i can post for now, their is still quite a bit left to this plot, but rest assured, you can put quite a bit in 10 missions :)
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sounds pretty damn good to me so far :nod::yes:
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W:eek:W Singh! That's a good, no great looking campaign idea you got there.
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thank you.
Unfortunately I do not wish to continue here, as it might just spoil the surprise of the entire plot idea.
Who will be leading the project if and when it does start? I will submit the entire campaign idea to him/her.
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[color=66ff00]I think this is an excellent example of why we can't have it both ways, either everyone knows the plot or only a select group knows the plot but it has surprise factor.
In either case we'd need to decide pretty soon unless another option can be found.
For the time being keep your plot ideas to yourselves, I think we should put this to a vote.
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I suggested the jury thing so you know my vote...
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I wouldn't suggest a jury Per se.
However, i do think that it should go to the team of individuals that are making the entire project possible rather than a random collection of people. That way they can directly flesh out possible issues with the plots, not to mention act on it immediately once a proper plotline is given.
Has a development team been formed for the project or are you still signing up members?
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[color=66ff00]I'm currently the only person trying to push this thing forward.
I'm not sure how I could get a team together at present, for the time being it's mostly just a case of getting the whole thing up and running.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I'm currently the only person trying to push this thing forward.
I'm not sure how I could get a team together at present, for the time being it's mostly just a case of getting the whole thing up and running.
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You are???
Judging from the backing the other mods get, i'm not sure why you haven't gotten any so far :eek2:
One question tho. What is the FS2 Upgrade supposed to do? Is it a mod like the others, or is it something else entirely?
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Singh : Basically Maeg is trying to put together a community project. The basic aim of the project is to come up with a new campaign to attract new blood to the community. We want lots of new people who just want to play the game but also people pretty much like yourself who have talents in FREDding, modding or story writing (From the plot you posted I can guess you have at least one of these skills :D ) and thereby help the community grow rather than stagnate.
Maeg : You're doing a great job at the moment and no one else has joined cause at the moment you don't need anyone else :D All that is going on at the moment is people brainstorming ideas for plot and mods. You don't need a team for that. Once you get to the point where you do need one we'll be here :)
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[color=66ff00]Thanks karajorma. :)
Yeah right now it's basically just a case of throwing some ideas around. I guess the direction we're heading in is pretty indistinct at the moment but I just got an excellent piece of news which I'm going to post in a minute. :)
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Originally posted by Ace
You'll probably kill me for a post this long but:
Mission Structure: ( * notes a command briefing)
*xsm1-01: Alpha Centauri-Securing of node cluster (after destruction of SD Ravanna)
xsm1-02: Sirius-Strike on NTF flagship (defeat)
*xsm1-03: Alpha Centauri-Planetary defense
xsm1-04: Deneb-Blockade
*xsm1-05: Sirius-Vasudan battlegroup against NTD Cyrene
xsm2-01: Polaris-GTVA Colossus blockade of Regulus
*xsm2-02: Epsilon Pegasi-Defense of convoy bringing ammo for blockade against NTF runners
xsm2-03: Epsilon Pegasi-Colossus v.s. NTF runners (NTCv Jacquerie destroyed, transports, etc. as bonus)
xsm2-04: Polaris-Abandoned NTF cargo depot (assigned with Vasudans as Colossus hunts Bosch, ends with news of Sathannas #1/battle)
*xsm3-01: Knossos Nebula-Science vessel defense (reassigned to Colossus for nebular ops to find Bosch, faces Vasudan spec ops and Shivans)
xsm3-02: Knossos Nebula-Discovery of NTF cargo depot, defense of recovery ships (ends with news of Sathannas fleet)
*xsm3-03: Vega-Defense of GTD Nereid
Ship Continuity:
GTD Ithaca
xsm1-01:assigned
GTVA Colossus
xsm2-01:encountered in mission
xsm2-02:transferred
xsm3-03:encountered in mission
xsm3-04 (mentioned in cbrief)
xsm3-03 (destruction mentioned in cbrief)
Pretty much this is the second half of FreeSpace 2. Dealing with the NTF campaign while you were in the nebula, the Colossus' run towards Gamma Draconis engaging the NTF, the other nebular operations looking for Bosch, and finally defense of the GTD Nereid as it was sent to collapse the Capella nodes.
I wrote this up a while ago, it's 12 missions and requires no mods except for custom command briefings and squads as this is meant to cooincide with FS2.
If you're interested I can write out more detailed mission outlines. Most of these missions were designed to have a twist in mind.
Plot thief. :p
Anyway, I've had the idea of a concurrent story alongside FS2 literally for years (not trying to make a claim on this, Ace, just mentioning it. ;)). I have a document that reveals too much of the plot to post here, but if we ever get the plot committie going, I'll gladly post it. There's a very, very large plot twist at the end. ;7
For those of you who remember (about 2 years back), I released a closed Beta Test of the first 3 missions. Feedback was very good.
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Originally posted by Ace
I wrote this up a while ago, it's 12 missions and requires no mods except for custom command briefings and squads as this is meant to cooincide with FS2.
but isn't the idea here to promote the scp and stuff? so I would have think there would be many mods, actually.
otherwise it's just another campaign...
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Originally posted by Venom
but isn't the idea here to promote the scp and stuff? so I would have think there would be many mods, actually.
otherwise it's just another campaign...
[color=66ff00]Indeed it is, as such we have to move away from the Freespace 2 campaign completely, we can't use any of :V:'s media as it would stop us from freely distributing it.
I think any campaign should be sufficently far enough into the future to remove the use of any of the Freespace 2 ships.
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So basically we dont want to use any of the current FS2 ships at all??
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Indeed it is, as such we have to move away from the Freespace 2 campaign completely, we can't use any of :V:'s media as it would stop us from freely distributing it.
I think any campaign should be sufficently far enough into the future to remove the use of any of the Freespace 2 ships.
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why not doing a TC? that way we can do what we want w/o bothering about this or that regarding to the original plot, or what people think of what could happen after capella. just a thought.
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TC?
(sorry, i'm the new guy here, so haven't quite gotten the hang of all this lingo. :/)
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Originally posted by Singh
So basically we dont want to use any of the current FS2 ships at all??
Heh, there are enough ships out to do that. Especially with Inferno ships about to become available ;)
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[color=66ff00]Sandwich actually proposed this whilst we were considering how to approach the upgrade. Two reasons for not choosing a total conversion that we could think of was that everyone here is here due to freespace and it's plotline which influenced them enough to make new stuff for the game.
Second reason is that most of the major TC's (starwars being a prime example) have the possibilty of drawing legal problems. We could never effectively distribute a SW conversion as it would most likely result in all media being taken by lucasarts.
The other main conversion, B5, is doing pretty well for itself and I think we'd be stepping on toes if we tried to do anything here relating to it.
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TC = Total Conversion (i.e nothing of the original game survives)
I personally don't much like the idea of moving completely away from the [V] ships. By doing that we hugely increase the amount of work we have to do and unless we are going to recreate every single interface file ourselves we are still going to be using [V] media so we are still in a legal grey area when it comes to distribution.
If we are going to drop all the FS2 era ships we might as well move completely away from FS2 and make an original story based on the FS2 engine. This has some advantages because the main barrier to attracting newbies (that they haven't played FS1 & 2) is now gone.
Personally I think we should stick to post Capella for simplicities sake.
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I agree (thanks for the explaination btw) about sticking to post-capella. That is the most logical place to start out if you want to make something related to FS2.
Seriously tho, if you can make up your minds about a time period, then I can make up a plotline to fit it quite easily. I have done so in the past and can do so again :)
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[color=66ff00]Well what if we already had an entirely new shipset that needs some tweaking and a few more models?
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Well what if we already had an entirely new shipset that needs some tweaking and a few more models?
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In that case I have no problem with setting everything much after Capella. Remember though that caps and fighters aren't enough. We need a full set of freighters, support ships etc too. We'd also need Vasudan and Shivan mods and they tend to be as rare as boxers teeth (i.e they do exist but generally the boxer wants to keep them :D )
And even then we still wouldn't be completely free of [V] since we'd still be using their interface (actually anything we do in the FS2 universe is probably considered a derivative work and therefore automatically copywrited to [V] or Interplay).
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00] I guess the direction we're heading in is pretty indistinct at the moment but I just got an excellent piece of news which I'm going to post in a minute. :)
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You've had 240. What is it?
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Originally posted by karajorma
And even then we still wouldn't be completely free of [V] since we'd still be using their interface (actually anything we do in the FS2 universe is probably considered a derivative work and therefore automatically copywrited to [V] or Interplay).
could someone research this? if it would be :V: copywrite, were probably fine, if it's interplay, we have a problem.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Well what if we already had an entirely new shipset that needs some tweaking and a few more models?
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Hehehe... :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
I personally don't much like the idea of moving completely away from the [V] ships. By doing that we hugely increase the amount of work we have to do and unless we are going to recreate every single interface file ourselves we are still going to be using [V] media so we are still in a legal grey area when it comes to distribution.
I've already begun working on a new interface for the SW Mod, which I'm sure Karma will be willing to share. And I do mean totally new, none of this Render behind the V Interface stuff, or a simple colour change. There's a slightly out of date example in the Job oppourtunities thread on the SW Mod forum. Here for the Lazy :) (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,11096.0.html)
Yes, it's a massive project (one which I've been called off for the moment unfortunately, but still will progress), especially with me working effectivly alone, and with a lot of other commitments, but I dont believe its impossible. If you look at the images in Sparky.vp you may notice that a huge number of them are relatively simple modifications on other images - some are exact copies. In real terms there are probably only a few hundred truly unique images in there, and many are fairly small - the rest are copies of these few hundred with simple changes made. Other files are stuff like loadout anis, concept art, hud pictures etc. - a lot of stuff that could be replicated from things that we would need to recreate anyway.
EDIT - Note that the interface wouldn;t be the only thing that'd need replacing. If we're using currently existing mods, Like *Is stifled by Maeg* then we'd also need to eliminate all references to Vs textures, including stuff like the AWACS and Deimos Textures, which seem really common.
However this shouldn't be so hard - we'd need to make a similar looking but different texture from scratch, and just put this in there. It wouldn't change the overall appearance of the ship, but would get us out of the Lawsuit hole.
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[color=66ff00]I love suspense... :D
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I love suspense... :D
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Oooh, you're cruel! :drevil:
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[color=66ff00]OK I think that's enough suspense....
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FSUpgrade has just gone OTT.
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* begins counting *
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:wtf:
*starves to death*
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]OK I think that's enough suspense....
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FSUpgrade has just gone OTT.
:drevil:
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Originally posted by Tiara
:drevil:
[color=66ff00]She knows...
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]She knows...
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LOL!! KT missed it! :lol:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]She knows...
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[color=009999]I have a sore throat so [insert evil laugh here]
Ow, and I just copyrighted this color on HLP if anyone was wondering :p[/color]
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Originally posted by Sandwich
LOL!! KT missed it! :lol:
Missed the secrecy, or missed the general idea? :confused:
I'm so conflicted....
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Missed the secrecy, or missed the general idea? :confused:
I'm so conflicted....
The Blak Text™. MuHAHAHAHAHH!!! :D
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Why has this been un-stickified? :confused:
Anyways, I was thinking of a test-pilot-type story, where a pilot is assigned to gaurd duty during the closed-system tests of a new Super-Destroyer, and he gets some rivals, etc,etc.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Sandwich actually proposed this whilst we were considering how to approach the upgrade. Two reasons for not choosing a total conversion that we could think of was that everyone here is here due to freespace and it's plotline which influenced them enough to make new stuff for the game.
Second reason is that most of the major TC's (starwars being a prime example) have the possibilty of drawing legal problems. We could never effectively distribute a SW conversion as it would most likely result in all media being taken by lucasarts.
The other main conversion, B5, is doing pretty well for itself and I think we'd be stepping on toes if we tried to do anything here relating to it.
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by TC I meant original story, not based on some scifi show or anything. but it was just an idea ;)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
The Blak Text™. MuHAHAHAHAHH!!! :D
*Wonders if ott has a new meaning, or if we are just going to finish community projects*
*remembers it's sandwich*
:p
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[color=66ff00]Basically due to Venom's kindness we now have the use of all of the OTT models and artwork for the upgrade project if we need them. There are still quite a few slots to fill model wise (especially enemy ships) but if we do use OTT models then we have to do an awful lot less work. :nod:
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oh.. why not uh... just help finish OTT or something? :p
I mean, it had a nice plot, at least it seemed like it.
or not......
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What is OTT? If i might as to so dare ask?
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Maeg, I'm on-board if you need me. I can do storylining, modeling, and concept art.
Ooo,ooo, can I be on the judge board?
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Originally posted by Singh
What is OTT? If i might as to so dare ask?
Over the Top, Venom's Mod. Click his first Avatar.
And I'll judge if you'd like me to. :nod:
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All right, I think this should be done similarly to all the other campaigns (only the people working on it know the plot) but I also think it should have a much larger staff than the other campaigns. Basically all of the HLP veterans/Gods/l33t etc. know the plot but the n00bs (myself included), and lurkers are left in the dark until it's finished.
For my plot suggestion: I remember from back in my lurking days there was someone claiming to have been one of the storywriters for FS3 before it got canceled. The story was that both the Great Wars had just been products of a bigger war between the Shivans and a fifth race: the Andarta, and that a task force was sent deep into Shivan space to investigate.
Whoa.. that was probably my biggest post yet
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o_O
If we can get this guy, it would be good. Unfortunately if it was the story for FS3, then it would be copyrighted by [V].
One more thing- is their any official chat channel or someplace similar where everyone hangs out? Boards are one thing, chat is another :)
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I just did a search for Freespace 2.9 and didn't find anything. It must have been on the VBB. Oh well, I'm sure one of the VBB survivors remembers what I'm talking about.
Singh: As far as I know (AFAIK) there is no chat only the boards
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No chat?
Darn...
anyways, i've continued writing up the plot and i'm up to mission 4/10. problem is, i'm at a crossroads and seriously don't know where to go. The mission is such that many things can happen to effect the game and i just dont know what to do :/
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Originally posted by redsniper
All right, I think this should be done similarly to all the other campaigns (only the people working on it know the plot) but I also think it should have a much larger staff than the other campaigns. Basically all of the HLP veterans/Gods/l33t etc. know the plot but the n00bs (myself included), and lurkers are left in the dark until it's finished.
For my plot suggestion: I remember from back in my lurking days there was someone claiming to have been one of the storywriters for FS3 before it got canceled. The story was that both the Great Wars had just been products of a bigger war between the Shivans and a fifth race: the Andarta, and that a task force was sent deep into Shivan space to investigate.
Whoa.. that was probably my biggest post yet
I don't think he was actually a writer, but he was approached by V to help write it, or something to that affect. Either way, it's on his website, here (http://faculty.concord.edu/manzione/fs3.htm).
Show some love to your master. :thepimp:
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Behind Enemy Lines :)
Quite a nice idea but nothing much seems to have happened to it. Now maybe if the community got behind it :)
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Originally posted by redsniper
I just did a search for Freespace 2.9 and didn't find anything. It must have been on the VBB. Oh well, I'm sure one of the VBB survivors remembers what I'm talking about.
nah, I remember it, it was at HLP too. Btw, the plot was hella bad so, you know...
edit: KT, no need to click my avatar, the site is gone, GS deleted my whole folder :doubt:
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Originally posted by Singh
No chat?
Darn...
anyways, i've continued writing up the plot and i'm up to mission 4/10. problem is, i'm at a crossroads and seriously don't know where to go. The mission is such that many things can happen to effect the game and i just dont know what to do :/
[color=66ff00]I'd like to get a lot of people together on IRC at some point for some discussion.
At this point it looks like the jury plan is the most popular, nobody wants the open plot anyhow. Bear in mind that the jury might not be something you want to be on, you'll know the entire plot intimately. As to how the jury will be picked, well that's not decided at present but thanks for all the enthusiasm. :)
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irc.sorcery.net #nodewar
not really HLP, but most people hang out there.
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yes....you will join #nodewar on irc.sorcery.net :drevil:
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
I don't think he was actually a writer, but he was approached by V to help write it, or something to that affect. Either way, it's on his website, here (http://faculty.concord.edu/manzione/fs3.htm).
Show some love to your master. :thepimp:
He approached Volition with the story, Volition replied that they were not interested or something to that effect.
Volition has a clear outline for FS3, the staff there who worked on FS1/2 still want to make FS3, but it's not going to happen anytime soon.
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For those of us who can't get on IRC, could you give us a brief overlay of what was said after you're done?
*still wants to be a judge*
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[color=66ff00]Don't worry we're not going to be doing the IRC chat until we can find a suitable time slot that is convienient for a lot of people. We'll keep the discussion to the threads here for the time being.
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some free thoughts:
if you want a "new game" (as I'd like..), you will need to avoid using copyrighted stuff at all (the code will remain under :v: (c) so the game must be distributed for free obviously, but it will not be required to have fs2 to play it); this mean new interface (that can be done, as reported by black wolf, building up a little team), new sounds (shouldn't be so hard), new textures/models.
This means to don't use at all ships from fs2.
This could be necessary anyway since we are talking of old artwork, when we want something actual (in pcount and details) that fit the new possibilities of fs2open, but will also limit our possibilities of making a sequel of fs2, unless we rebuild completely most of the original ships.
At this point, well, probably the best solution would be to make something completely new, in a different universe than fs2,
OR
to imagine a far future that the timeline of fs2, with completely new freespacy ships (except a few that can be rebuilt at all).
I personally vote for the first choice, and i have an idea that could be *great* about a completely original story, but if we want to remain into the freespaceverse, we have to make some thoughts about
1-when (50 years after fs2 is ok i think)
2-what happened meanwhile (earth node opened with a portal, shivans never returned, new tecnology, problems with vasudans and earth people, too limited resources to build a fleet that can match shivans 'saths, politic discussions between those who want to completely isolate the known systems and those who want to explorate new systems, new allys/enemyes, new ancient artifacts, new informations about shivans,their origins, how they think, who lead em,etc etc )
3-what will happen now(the best starting point will be the answer to the questions opened in fs2 and those of point 2 in my list).
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Uh, no. This is a Freespace upgrade project after all, not a different game + universe.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Uh, no. This is a Freespace upgrade project after all, not a different game + universe.
:yes:
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I still don't get why everyone has got such a bee in their bonnet about throwing away everything that wasn't made by the community.
1) Interplay don't appear to be the ogres they could be. They haven't complained about the HotU download. They haven't complained about fans distributing FS2 files in mods. In fact the only thing they've ever complained about is third party MVE players/extractors/converters. Apart from that they really don't seem to care about FS2 at all.
2) As I keep saying any community project based on FS2 automatically is copywrite to [V] or Interplay anyway AFAIK since it's based on their copywrited material. If I were to go out and write a Star Wars book and try to publish it I'd get sued cause my work would be judged to be a derivative work.
AFAIK the same thing applies to video games. If Interplay decided that they did want to be evil they could come in and claim that all our campaigns based in the FS2 universe were infringing their copywrite and get them shut down.
So no matter what we do with this project unless we set it in our own universe we'll never be completely safe from the (very slim) chance of someone taking exception and trying to close it down.
All I'm saying I really don't think anyone would care if the FS2 Upgrade Project files included some stuff that belonged to the original FS2. So why make life difficult for ourselves?
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As I understand it, it's more Gamespy we need to worry about. As I understand it, one of the ultimate aims is to make the upgrade project downloadable on Fileplanet, and that means gettign through GS and all the copywrite laws that is has to abide by. We could probably get away with a few old V textures, or the old monochromes, but putting up the entire V interface, or some of the more recognizeable V ships (Orion, Fenris etc.) then we'd be just asking for trouble.
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why use GS?
why not put it up on Kazaa, or use lot's of FTP serves, like swooh, or HOTU, why not burn it on cd's and stuff it down people's throat?
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because GS has Fileplanet and bandwith limits is proplem in other sites and kazaa is too slow
as for this topic make campaing that has good plot and few story twists
if this project using OTT models time line would be 30-80 years after capella
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it may use the models, but there was no requet concerning the plot. so for me I don't care what they do about the ships history and stuff.
It might be a good idea to reskin all the terran ships btw, in that regard. In OTT there's clear reasons for why they look different, but for that project, people would wonder why the hell the terran ships are black or white/red and stuff.
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Could we move all download discussions into another topic? This, I believe, is storyline only ;)
Anyways, one last parting word: we should use a different filesharing program, and bill the game as FS2.5, I believe. After all, we DON'T want Interplay getting involved (which they will have to, if we use a GS server), and the title will inform people of what the game is a continuation of. Also, we could put the game on a different server (such as freehosting, or some other such place).
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well i think this isn't only a thread to discuss about the story, (it has no sense to start posting the plot, if we still have to decide how the making the plot will be managed)
about copyright issue:
as far as i now, the laws are not completely strict, since (C) shouldn't be applied to nonprofit projects that don't cause economic damages to the copyright owners. Problem is that this can lead to ambiguous interpretations, and if you really intend to produce an fs2.5 or fs3 or whatever, and release it as a standalone game, I suggest to take more informations possible about (c) problems.
Some examples: some years ago Paramount started some legal actions against owners of startrek fan sites, with the intention of being the only Startrek source on internet. As far as i know they failed (but i don't know if the legal action failed or they simply considered that there were too many fan sites and that it was turning in bad marketing)
a couple of years ago Sony started a legal action against all the magazines with a title containing playstation, psx or other variants, for making moneys using the name of their console
Some years ago a member of the community forums of xwing posted a communications he had with LEC (lucasart entertainment company, different than LucasFilms) where they said that they was going to start legal actions against whoever found using without permission the original artwork of their games.
At the same time Lucasfilm maintain a friendly policy with the fan sites, like TFN, that host a HUGE collection of unofficial comics, novels, games, films etc etc.
Recently Blizzard succesfully closed a community project, similar to ours, for an open source RTS, because it was too close to its own games and because it could use the same file format of some of his games.
What I'm trying to say is that if you don't get money from your work and you don't cause economic damage, you should be ok, but still you can have problems, depending by the company's policy, and you will have more likely problems when you use artwork that costed em money/time.
I know that :v: always had a very friendly policy with us, I also know that interplay is surely not evil, but the point is that it would be better to reduce, and possibly avoid at all, any possible legal problem, to avoid working two years on a project that could be stopped whenever others want.
This is also the reason for Inquisitor some times ago was looking for the source code of the demo, since there was the possibility to distribute the demo artwork and therefore the possibility to distribute the mods as standalone game avoiding those (C) problems.
You can instead release mods, even when they use original artwork, since they require the original game to be played, and therefore not only they don't cause damages, but they also are be an addictive value to the original game.
Personally I think that, if we want to release this thing as a standalone game, we MUST contact first :v: and or interplay and ask them permission to use the freespace storyline and the original game artwork for a new free open source game based on the fs2code, as IIRC others did for another community project about a new descent game.
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OK. Do it, then :D
Anyways, the only reason I can think of of needing to do that would be if we got it on a CGW MODs disk, and got it distributed (which we should try to do)...
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Dear Interplay Public Relations Desk,
Hello, I'm __________, and I represent Hard Light Productions, a very lively community that is dedicated to modifying one of your older games, Freespace and Freespace 2.
We at Hard Light Productions have been wanting to create a sequel to Freespace 2, the title of which is still being decided. I am writing to see if it would be OK with Interplay if we distributed the game over Kazaa, Fileplanet, and possibly on magazine demo CDs.
We intend to use the now-free source code for Freespace 2, along with heavy modification, for this project. Please respond to this as soon as possible.
Regards,
_____
How's that?
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sounds good, but imo, you can better beg for forgiveness then ask for permession here.
also, start with asking :V:, i know that they don't hold the right to the name, but IIRC, they do hold the rights to the original artwork.
and i miss a link to HLP, and i strongly suggest against mentioning Kazaa or any form of P2P software. just mention the phrase " free distrubution over the internet" and the smart ones will know what you are asking.
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yeah, agree, also add some words about using fs2 artwork. BTW it is a mail that has to be sent by the future project leader or the hlp guys
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[color=66ff00]Future project leader?
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I haven't followed all the discussions, I just presumed that after deciding the plot, you will select a project leader who will organize all the efforts, since it's usually the best way to make teamworks with such a large project;)
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[color=66ff00]Actually, provided the community is OK with it I'd very much like to keep doing what I'm doing now. It is a community project though so if yourself or others can pick a person who is better suited to doing this than me then good luck to them.
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Well I'm ok with the way it is right now, at least.
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ahhhh i see....look maeg, it wasn't against you, really, i just haven't realized you already had the leadership, sorry:)
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[color=66ff00]:lol: you haven't offended me Karma, the upgrade project is bigger than one or two members and I'm all for putting the best people into the best position to do the job.
I am actually enjoying this as a challenge and I hope that I can contribute something to the project as a whole.
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