Post by: Grey Wolf on July 12, 2003, 01:41:16 pm
Post by: 01010 on July 12, 2003, 02:21:20 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I've beem reading some of the reviews of the Alphas here (http://www.winsupersite.com/default.asp). What confuses me is it appears that it will actually be a competent OS. This is really quite strange, considering what happens when MS introduces a completely new branch of Windows (Windows 1.0, Windows 95)....
MS hasn't inserted all the "fuck things up" code yet though. They have until 2005 to correct that.
Post by: CP5670 on July 12, 2003, 02:27:09 pm
Post by: kasperl on July 12, 2003, 02:27:26 pm
Post by: Rictor on July 12, 2003, 03:24:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
what are the key features and differences from XP in this?
More spyware. And hardware-entrenched spyware from what I hear..
Post by: Thor on July 12, 2003, 03:36:43 pm
Post by: Bobboau on July 12, 2003, 08:10:46 pm
Post by: Unknown Target on July 12, 2003, 08:30:50 pm
Post by: Grey Wolf on July 12, 2003, 09:05:15 pm
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/0724palladiumwp.asp
Post by: CP5670 on July 12, 2003, 09:12:39 pm
Post by: Unknown Target on July 12, 2003, 09:29:32 pm
Post by: Grey Wolf on July 12, 2003, 09:38:26 pm
Post by: Rictor on July 12, 2003, 09:47:36 pm
2: I doubt there will be an easy way to disable it, since its hardware based, and hardware can override software commands. Maybe some soldering and stuff ought to do it, but honestly how many people will go through the trouble? I'm not worried about me, I'll be one of the few people who tries to disable it. I'm talking about the millions, the majority of people, who dont even know it exists, much less how to disable it.
3: When Microsoft says: "Dont worry, we would never do anything to spy on/control/disable modification to you computer" I tend not to believe them.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid
Post by: mikhael on July 12, 2003, 10:02:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
well, a after this many tries, they really should've succeeded at least once.
They did. It was called Windows2000. Best OS Microsoft ever put out.
Post by: LtNarol on July 12, 2003, 10:24:26 pm
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Originally posted by mikhaelNo, that'd be DOS :p
Best OS Microsoft ever put out.
Post by: IceFire on July 12, 2003, 11:09:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
1: You think Windows XP is spyware free? I'm sticking with my good old 98
2: I doubt there will be an easy way to disable it, since its hardware based, and hardware can override software commands. Maybe some soldering and stuff ought to do it, but honestly how many people will go through the trouble? I'm not worried about me, I'll be one of the few people who tries to disable it. I'm talking about the millions, the majority of people, who dont even know it exists, much less how to disable it.
3: When Microsoft says: "Dont worry, we would never do anything to spy on/control/disable modification to you computer" I tend not to believe them.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid
You are being paraonoid but I share your paranoia. I do nothing on my machine that would warrant anyone to need to gather information against me but I still absoutely hate the fact that they can do it...and nobody has challenged them properly in court.
However...I have hope that in the grand scheme of things balance will be restored. Technologies have a habit of turning back on their creators or those who think they have the control soon find they have less than they supposed.
If that senator ever has his way with the auto destructing computers...he'd better keep his computer a 386 hidden in a closet somewhere...someone would destroy his computer in a hacking contest. The people who use surveliance technologies on citizens have found that citizens are using the same technology to defeat them (Wired article I was reading). RIAA sues individuals trading music online...online music trading goes up 10%.
Someday, I hope that some of this will work out in the end. Microsoft will get what it deserves for cheating everyone out of better competition, music artists will get paid properly for their music (iTunes gives me hope), an increasingly electronic world will end up to preserve the balance of public good and personal privacy.
I hope so...Longhorn looks good, but Microsofts tactics and so called security features are heading into turbulent territory. I hope they think twice about it...
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 12, 2003, 11:25:30 pm
Post by: JC Denton on July 13, 2003, 12:15:42 am
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 13, 2003, 12:29:57 am
Post by: Turnsky on July 13, 2003, 12:39:03 am
Post by: Kamikaze on July 13, 2003, 12:54:53 am
I've also heard about a relational database on top of NTFS (called WinFS) which annoys me, I've heard it would be somewhat slow (and I'd much prefer a directory structure like Unix instead of a relational database). However they're getting rid of drive letters (only hiding them, they're not eradicated yet).
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 13, 2003, 01:08:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
the taskbar seems a helluva lot cleaner(and better looking) than Xp's.. and i see that they've dropped the 'green jellybean' start button:nod:
I've found the XP taskbar to be very clean. Locking it gets rid of the ugly dividing lines between the various toolbars on it (as well as preventing you from moving/resizing it by accident, something I've done on several occasions), the fact it tucks inactive systray icons out of the way also cuts down on the amount of clutter and finally, program grouping keeps the various taskbar buttons neat and organised. Oh, and the new "Start Menu" is handy too, I hardly ever have to drag out the "All Programs" menu anymore as everything I need is either pinned to the Start Menu or in the "most used" list below it. The "green jelly bean" never bothered me in the least.
Post by: Turnsky on July 13, 2003, 01:17:02 am
Post by: Bobboau on July 13, 2003, 04:21:35 am
Post by: Turnsky on July 13, 2003, 04:37:21 am
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Originally posted by Bobboau
why give you the oportunity, green is a nice color and you will like it!
seems the case with an xbox
Post by: Nico on July 13, 2003, 04:54:17 am
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Originally posted by Turnsky
i just thought that the green start button broke up the continutity of the taskbar somewhat, i woulda preferred if they gave you the ability to change the color of the start button..
you can also do like me and choose classical look in the display properties. grey rules :p
Post by: Rictor on July 13, 2003, 05:18:13 am
As for the security, well, I hope that it all works out. The major components here (The OS maker, the chip makers and the government) are all after the same thing, so I doubt any of those would interfere with the plans of any of the others. The government would gladly let Microsoft spy on you, so long as they have access to the info..
Post by: J.F.K. on July 13, 2003, 06:48:01 am
Thanks to the DCE, windows can flap around as you move them with the mouse.[/q]
Heh... all our technological wonders, and we're just trying to recreate paper. Well, not entirely, but it's funny to muse on. ;)
Post by: Martinus on July 13, 2003, 07:05:28 am
XP IMHO is a system hogging monster, what is the point of installing an operating system which actually degrades from your ability to use a computer? Half those 'bells and whistles' M$ installed are completely redundant hard drive fillers used to try and vilify an increase in price.
What a joke.
[/color]
Post by: Tiara on July 13, 2003, 07:14:37 am
2). 2k crashed more then 98SE for me :hopping:
3). with a 200gig HDD I need not worry about XP filling my HD. It takes up a mere 1.5 gigs now :D
4). And half those 'bells and whistles' you don't use can be uninstalled or not even installed from the start....
Still... LINUX ownz j00!
Post by: Nico on July 13, 2003, 08:44:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tiara
1). I have XP and it works without nearly ANY system hogging. (Could be due to the fact that I run a AMD3000+ 1 gig RAM but still... not even the slightest system hogging)
2). 2k crashed more then 98SE for me :hopping:
3). with a 200gig HDD I need not worry about XP filling my HD. It takes up a mere 1.5 gigs now :D
4). And half those 'bells and whistles' you don't use can be uninstalled or not even installed from the start....
Still... LINUX ownz j00!
I more or less agree with you:
1) same here, I have about no crashes with XP ( considering I never shut my PC down ). and my rig is a puny 900mhz with 384mb ram.
2) 2k could²n't run half my stuff and crashed like crazy :doubt: ( but it didn't reach the win98 record of 5 or 6 crashes a day :doubt: )
3) with 120 gb, same here :p
4) yeah
Linux: no :doubt: Linux is useless unless you like to brag about using a useless OS or unless you're doing network stuff.
Linux is for geeks who like to waste HD space otherwise, or for professionals, to sum up.
Post by: Tiara on July 13, 2003, 08:50:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
Linux: no :doubt: Linux is useless unless you like to brag about using a useless OS or unless you're doing network stuff.
Linux is for geeks who like to waste HD space otherwise, or for professionals, to sum up.
Yup, I do my "work" with linux but games, chatting and stuff on windows. Easier to use indeed.
Post by: LtNarol on July 13, 2003, 10:06:53 am
Time in use: 5 years
Hardware: recently upgraded from a 550mhz processor to an Athlon 2.6ghz, 128mb ddr ram and 18gig hdd. TNT2 video card.
Crashes experienced: 2
Typical background software: ICQ, MSN, AIM, PSP7, LW7, Winamp, TS5.1 (yes, at the same time)
It should probably be noted that both crashes were due to my stupid mistakes while programming (endless loops and undefined array elements). XP's only real advance is visual appearance, which runs about dead last as far as importance goes in my book; LH doesn't look much different, the only thing useful seems to be translucent windows, which can come in handy for code and messenger.
Post by: Nico on July 13, 2003, 10:20:27 am
win98SE, crashes experimented... mmh.. i'll make a quick approximation:
I've ran it for, let say 4 years. so 1460 days. between 4 and 10 crashes a day, so let say 7 crashes a day.
I've experimented 102220 crashes with win98SE.
It rocked :doubt:
with XP, I hardly have 2 crashes a week ( same PC ). I'll say the improvement over 98 is more than cosmetic, but that could be me.
:doubt:
Post by: LtNarol on July 13, 2003, 10:28:25 am
Post by: Tiara on July 13, 2003, 10:35:09 am
WinXP - 1 crash a month tops
Post by: Nico on July 13, 2003, 10:36:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
4-10 crashes a day on an average day is rediculous, did you piss off a lot of people who know how to hack PCs or something?
no, I use my PC a lot.
Post by: Taristin on July 13, 2003, 10:37:26 am
Post by: LtNarol on July 13, 2003, 11:02:38 am
Post by: Unknown Target on July 13, 2003, 11:14:09 am
EDIT: I have XP.
Post by: Hippo on July 13, 2003, 11:20:12 am
4+ crashes a day (normaly involving internet stuff)
(also minimizng the wrong thing)
Post by: Nico on July 13, 2003, 11:22:03 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
I usually have my PC running whenever I'm home (and supposed to be awake), which means about 8 hours a day during the school year and about 14 hours a day durring the summer. Keep in mind that until 3 weeks ago this was on a 550mhz processor and 128mb of 'normal' ram.
My PC runs 24H a day, 365 days a year, with lots of resource intensive progs running together. Get the picture?
XP can handle it fairly well, 98SE couldn't. Simple as that.
Post by: kasperl on July 13, 2003, 12:51:50 pm
anyway, win98SE is nice and stable for internet, winamp, MSN, office, PS7 (bordercase), but don't try TS, PS, or heavier stuff.
Post by: IceFire on July 13, 2003, 01:43:59 pm
On Windows XP...I never crash (except in one old OpenGL app). Never ever ever ever. But then I have nothing installed that should cause a crash. And the only things running in the background that are luxury pieces of software is Trillian...a wholy more stable and memory efficient piece of programming than the bloat that is ICQ :)
Post by: LtNarol on July 13, 2003, 01:54:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kasperlFunny, because I run TS, LW, and an assortment of other thing all the time, usually at the same time. Never had a problem with it.
but don't try TS, PS, or heavier stuff.
Post by: Tiara on July 13, 2003, 01:59:09 pm
Post by: Flaser on July 13, 2003, 04:15:24 pm
To tell the truth, did any of you do the same mistakes you used to do on your previous install of windows?
I guess not...
What do I mean?
Install those "security" patches, updates...
DirectX 9.000000000....
ASPI for NT....
....
Codec mania - trouble with the Nimo pack....
Installing 1000 programs.
Any system that has undergone the use of moths of work is nothing like the original clean install.
I "clean" my OS every once a week.
It is a Windows 2000 Server.
It crashes when you do the following:
-Run Glide programs with faulty emulator
-Run DOS programs with faulty emulators, that do irregular calls, incompatible with your Pentium or AMD processor
-Run programs not written for Windows 2000, but 98 and ignore the problems you experience and keep trying.
I used Windows XP.
My problem was not the fact, that it was overly stylished.
My problem was that once again Microsoft forced me to manage my PC trhough 11 control panels, and find out things necessary for any true user the hard way.
Post by: Grey Wolf on July 13, 2003, 04:57:19 pm
GUI wise, it appears there will be 3 settings: Windows Classic, a light version of the Longhorn GUI, and the full version. From the sound of it, I'd probably go for the light version.
And about Palladium, it sounds like it has to be enabled in both software AND hardware for it to work. Here's hoping nVidia will make it optional....
And #3, seems to me that the main reason to go for Longhorn is going to be PCI Express and x86-64 support being native to the OS.
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 13, 2003, 08:22:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]I can't believe anyone could choose asthetics over usability, that just doesn't make sense when it comes to operating systems.[/color]
And why not? We spend more time looking at the desktop than any other part of our PCs so it's no suprise we expect it to look halfway decent. Do you change the default colour scheme and/or have a wallpaper on your desktop?
Quote
In this respect I find win2k to be vastly superior to XP.
That's not a judgement you can make after only using it for 15 minutes. Go and use it day in, day out as your only OS for over a year and a half and then come back and start *****ing.
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LSD you claimed that 2k was an alpha? How can an OS that's so clean and stable be an alpha? Have you had a bad experience with using it?[/B]
2000 is an Alpha, it's an Alpha of XP. MS made lots of promises for Windows 2000 but the rush to get it out before the end of 1999 caused them to fail in making good on a lot of them. Examples include 2000s woeful out of the box application compatibility (almost half the apps I installed had to be "massaged" into working right) and crap hardware support (name me one other OS you can plug a USB wheel into and have your PS/2 mouse stop stone cold dead until you turn your PC off and then on again). XP is the OS that MS should have released instead of 2000, it still isn't perfect but it's a hell of a lot closer to fulfilling a lot of those early MS promises than 2000 ever was.
Quote
XP IMHO is a system hogging monster, what is the point of installing an operating system which actually degrades from your ability to use a computer? Half those 'bells and whistles' M$ installed are completely redundant hard drive fillers used to try and vilify an increase in price.
XP hasn't degraded my ability to use my computer in the least in fact, it's enhanced it in some cases. Virtually all of the major operating precedures I learned in 2000 (many of which had to be re-learned after NT4.0) work exactly the same way in XP and those that don't work better. In over 5 years, XP has to be the most worthwhile MS OS upgrade I've ever made.
Post by: diamondgeezer on July 13, 2003, 11:23:11 pm
I'm keeping my death-grip on my XP Pro disc... after all, even its faults are forgivable given that I got it at a SUPER DUPER DISCOUNT PRICE ;7
*unrelated mental note - buy more CD-Rs*
Post by: Thorn on July 14, 2003, 12:30:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
They did. It was called Windows2000. Best OS Microsoft ever put out.
I'm with ya there... as nice as XP is, 2000 does have it beat...
Post by: Kamikaze on July 14, 2003, 02:24:39 pm
I used to run win98se and it crashed immediately after getting itself setup after login. Win2k periodically crashed for no reason and programs could often go off and force a reboot, very annoying.
Now I'm on linux and it hasn't crashed a single time, and I reboot very, very rarely. And I don't see why you all complain about how you can't do this and that on linux, I can chat (I type in one line and that's about all the work it involves to set it up) in ICQ/IRC/MSN, I can listen to music, browse the internet all faster and more stable than windows. My user interface is more configurable as well.
And all these complaints about gaming is silly too, nowadays people port many games to linux and additionally I can use a compatibility application (WINE, no not an emulator) to run pretty much any windows application.
Post by: IceFire on July 14, 2003, 02:38:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Ah, all the windows horror stories...
I used to run win98se and it crashed immediately after getting itself setup after login. Win2k periodically crashed for no reason and programs could often go off and force a reboot, very annoying.
Now I'm on linux and it hasn't crashed a single time, and I reboot very, very rarely. And I don't see why you all complain about how you can't do this and that on linux, I can chat (I type in one line and that's about all the work it involves to set it up) in ICQ/IRC/MSN, I can listen to music, browse the internet all faster and more stable than windows. My user interface is more configurable as well.
And all these complaints about gaming is silly too, nowadays people port many games to linux and additionally I can use a compatibility application (WINE, no not an emulator) to run pretty much any windows application.
All fine and good...does it run IL-2? Raven Shield? FreeSpace 2? WarCraft 3? C&C Generals? If the answer is no to any of these then the answer is no to Linux. When that situation changes, I will be there :D
Post by: Kamikaze on July 14, 2003, 04:16:19 pm
Warcraft 3 - http://daily.daemonnews.org/view_story.php3?story_id=3355 on FreeBSD, but it's a unix variant
Unfortunately you gave a few hard ones :p So I can't say whether there's support for the rest, (I know for a fact IL2 doesn't work with standard install procedure, maybe with copying the uncompressed data... I'd try it if I had a copy) but there are quite a few games working and officially supported by software
http://www.transgaming.com/dogamesearch.php?order=working&showall=1
I recommend people with large hard drives at least dual boot and try it....
Post by: Bobboau on July 14, 2003, 07:28:45 pm
I have XP and the hourly crashing is anoying to say the least, is there a replacement for windows explorer, it seems to do about half the crashing (not IE I want to know if there is a way to replace MS's entire interface system)
Post by: Bobboau on July 14, 2003, 11:53:12 pm
Post by: Tiara on July 15, 2003, 05:33:10 am
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 15, 2003, 06:53:15 am
Post by: IceFire on July 15, 2003, 09:19:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
is there some way to lower XPs crashiness, like some setting that would let little things go without crashing
Who installed the OS for you? The company? What did they load on?
If you can...format, do a clean install (no upgrades - note: even the upgrade version will do a full install provided you have an old Windows CD lying around for verification). Then, let Windows XP configure itself...do not install any video or sound drivers unless it automatically does so. If not, wait till later. Then, get the latest (or best working) video and sound drivers for your particular hardware and install those. Do not install anything from Gator, do not install any fancy shell integrated systems (Creative labs, Microsoft, and Corel love to do this) so on and so forth. The damage caused just by installing this stuff is astronomical.
A quicker fix that doesn't involve formating is to do this. Star > Run > msconfig
Click on the services and startup tabs and uncheck suspicious and uneeded services and startup applications. When in doubt, leave it, but if it doesn't look essential then remove it (again, unless you know you need it). The best thing is that if you screw it up...just run msconfig again and check things back in till it works nicely.
Another thing to look out for is Quick Time...I find that causes crashes sometimes...even in XP. But Bobboau, a hourly crash from Windows XP means that there is something VERY wrong with the drivers, the OS install, or the hardware. I crash perhaps once weekly and as Tiara puts it - only when I've done something stupid to make it crash. Infact normal operations doesn't cause any instability...its usually testing a FS Open EXE or something that will force me to reset and its never a hardcrash requiring the reset button. Infact, on this computer, I have used reset twice :)
Post by: Grey Wolf on July 15, 2003, 06:23:39 pm
Boot, attempt to run a program, computer reboots.
Boot, attempt to connect to the internet, computer reboots.
Boot, sit and stare at the computer, computer reboots :p
Post by: Bobboau on July 15, 2003, 11:51:55 pm
Post by: Admiral LSD on July 16, 2003, 01:36:07 am
Sounds like you've got some bad RAM. Never a good thing.
Post by: IceFire on July 16, 2003, 07:17:58 am
Post by: killadonuts on July 16, 2003, 11:00:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
Linux: no :doubt: Linux is useless unless you like to brag about using a useless OS or unless you're doing network stuff.
Linux is for geeks who like to waste HD space otherwise, or for professionals, to sum up.
Wrong. Linux is for people who DONT want the stupid ass memory leaks and subsequent crashings.
Post by: CP5670 on July 16, 2003, 11:09:49 am