Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Corsair114 on July 16, 2003, 09:56:39 pm
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Meet the Vulture heavy space bomber.
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture4.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture3.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture2.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture1.jpg)
Dimensions-
Height: 8.1 meters
Width: 11.6 meters
Length: 34.1 meters
1396 polygons, and not one of them intersects. The fronts of the torpedo launchers were made completely by hand(select 3 points, make poly, 52 times).
Probably won't end up in Freespace 2, but I think it's a nice successor to the Boanerges(certainly better armed).
EDIT: Yes, I know it's untextured. I will probably texture it sometime in the future.
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put in FS2.5 ;7
looks nice btw
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[color=66ff00]Looks promising, don't be afraid to throw some more ploys into the hull though, right now it's a tad boxy, you could smooth it out. :nod:
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Definately looks like a Boanerges but I agree with Maeg that it's quite boxy at the moment (especially around the cockpit).
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Yes indeed, invest some more polys in hull angles and you're on to a winner with this model :nod::yes:
BTW, I love the top-and-bottom turrets. Something that has hampered FS bombers by its absence, IMHO.
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Remove those cylindrical holes to form flat faces (you can use a texture to replace them), reduce the gun barrels to triangles, dump the hemispherical turrets for something with less faces and you'll have something you can start to use (polygon wise) in FS.
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I don't know why do you give critism about its shape, I think it is not so problemful, and looks nice.
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Just texture it! ;)
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This was the first time I tried my hand at a bomber, so, yeah. Glad it turned out somewhat well. The reason the fuse is so angular, is because it is. It's supposed to be a "box with guns," mostly. If this model converter I found pans out, and can convert .mdl(FS2000, FS2002, and Half-Life) files, I'll be be making the changes necessary to put this thing into Freespace 2. If not, well, I'll be keeping it on hand as a template for 3DS Max.
*shoots AOL's idle popup*
Ahem, now that we have that out of the way, allow me to go over the weapons.
Turrets: 2 Dual Mekhu HL-7(ML-7?) turrets(tail gate, I dare ya). Ideally, the pilot would be able to designate targets for them, lock them foreward, or just let them fire at will. They would also "Revenge" target, attacking the last ship that attacked you, assuming there wasn't a higher priority target nearby.
Priorities: Incoming missles, hostile launched bombs, last attacking ship, fighters, bombers, capships.
Guns: 4, designed to take what would be the equivalent of a Prometheus X(Hard hitting than the Kayser, but slower firing and higher draining)
Missle Banks: 12 High Energy Torpedos(Think: Think Helios, but about as fast as Trebs). Ideally it would be able to salvo all 12 torpedos simultaneously. Or, up to 3 synaptic-type cluster bombs per tube.
So, yeah, this thing doesn't play. It's AB speed is a whopping 90 m/s, 5 faster than the old Boanerges. Cruise speed is also somewhat better, at 60 with a max cruise of 70. Being heavier, it's slower to accelerate and decelerate... so pulling up earlier than normal is probably a good idea.
*shoots AOL's idle popup* Gnar, stupid p.o.s. Anyways, hour an' a half 'till the download of the model convertor finishes.
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Originally posted by TopAce
I don't know why do you give critism about its shape, I think it is not so problemful, and looks nice.
I count 40 polies...
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Anyone know of a program that converts .bgl, .sca, .scm, and/or .mdl files to trueSpace compatible files?
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Ugly as hell, and with an outrageous polycount.
But that's just my opinion. You can convert MDLs with MilkShape. You can download the trial. I bought it, so if you want it converted send it my way and I'll turn it into a 3DS for ya.
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by Corsair114:
Ideally, the pilot would be able to designate targets for them, lock them foreward, or just let them fire at will. They would also "Revenge" target, attacking the last ship that attacked you, assuming there wasn't a higher priority target nearby.
Priorities: Incoming missles, hostile launched bombs, last attacking ship, fighters, bombers, capships.
Give in the ability to modify the priorities for every turret plus nice interface art and that's exactly how I think capship control should work :cool: . ;)
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Oh and for the bomber... I think it looks a good deal better than the original Boanerges :yes: .
Btw speaking of the Boanerges - what use did it really have? :confused: It had the same shields and max loadout as the Ursa, an inferior afterburner velocity, no better maneuverabilty (as far as I remember), no turrets at all and looked quite ugly.
I'd really like to have a textured version of the Vulture to replace this crap. (Boanerges fans - please don't get upset :nervous: )
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WOW! Did you make that in Blender?
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Oh, I just noticed... - I think it would look better with a broader/shorter cockpit, though it looks quite good as it is. :)
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Originally posted by Mav
Oh and for the bomber... I think it looks a good deal better than the original Boanerges :yes: .
Btw speaking of the Boanerges - what use did it really have? :confused: It had the same shields and max loadout as the Ursa, an inferior afterburner velocity, no better maneuverabilty (as far as I remember), no turrets at all and looked quite ugly.
I'd really like to have a textured version of the Vulture to replace this crap. (Boanerges fans - please don't get upset :nervous: )
The Ursa could kick the Boanerges' ass.
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
I count 40 polies...
I don't have a look at the polygon number, I have a look at how does my eye like it. There is no(much) connection between polygon number and the looking of a ship.
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Well that's quite clearly wrong, as a higher poly count = more smoothing and clever stuff like hemispherical turrets. In this case, more polys could be used for more detail on the hull, which has far too much by way of large flat areas such as the top surface.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well that's quite clearly wrong, as a higher poly count = more smoothing and clever stuff like hemispherical turrets. In this case, more polys could be used for more detail on the hull, which has far too much by way of large flat areas such as the top surface.
Wrong in your opinion, my point is that how my eye likes it. Expert modellers surely don't like it.
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OK, have it your way
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Although it could be said of me that I design slab sided craft, I have to agree with diamondgeezer, karajorma, and all the other tha have said that it is rather too boxy. Smooth it around the region behind the missile bays and in front of the engines, take polys out of the turrets bases and the barrels, remove the tubes, and you could create a much more flowing and sleek shaped craft.
Just my two penny's. BTW this craft, smoothed off, could replace the Boanerges model. MUCH better armed (but I would include a third missile bay).
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
OK, have it your way
I am not telling I am not accepting your point, I just want to convience you that poly number is not a serious point for me to base my opinion on a ship's looking. Now leave each other, We both would do better.:o
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Bah. I can't be arsed to argue with someone I can't understand, but I don't want you to think I'm 'backing down' just because you say so. Thus, I have these last words to say to you, then the debate is over: Ying Tong Iddle-I Po
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Originally posted by TopAce
Wrong in your opinion, my point is that how my eye likes it. Expert modellers surely don't like it.
But DG is right. Wasting polys on small details isn't the best way to make a ship look cool. That's the whole feeling that counts. But that's your ship.
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Abacus' FSDS Pro 2. It exports .mdl files for Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2000, Flight Simulator 2002, and Combat Flight Simulator 2.
Anyways, I'm probably gonna redo the main hull, but for now, here are some pics. The three links will take you to side-by-side comparisons with the original. The pics displayed here are of the current version.
Couple notes: Poly count = 264 now.
I, err, added one minor defensive weapon between the engines. It's not the powerful... actually, it's pretty weak, but I added it 'cause the turrets wouldn't be able to track you if you got right on the bomber's tail so, I'll let you guys judge for yourself.
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture-fs3.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture-fs2.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Vulture-fs1.jpg)
Comparison 1 (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/comp-1.jpg)
Comparison 2 (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/comp-2.jpg)
Comparison 3 (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/comp-3.jpg)
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Oo... I like that one a lot
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Much, much better use of polygons. :nod::yes: Obi-Wan has taught you well.
The cockpit is still too long, though. What's all that space in the neck for? Push the cockpit back much further, or do something funky there. Model some detail in.
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Model in some details, eh? Ok, I'll see that I can come up with. More missle launchers would(IMO) detract from the design... hrm. I'll think on it and see what I come up with. Suggestions would be welcome.
[EDIT]
Ok, so an Extra pair of missle bays won't look bad, and it'd give me a reason for a third missle selector(Upper Launchers, Lower Launchers, Foreward Launchers). I'll have pics up as soon as I'm done with the new launchers.
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Cocpit looks way too small... I bet this thing can hold like 400 Tsunami's no prob.
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The canopy's specs are:
Length: 1.5 meters
Width: .6 meters
Height. 1.1 meters
Which is fine, since only the pilot's head and upper shoulders are exposed. Most of him is protected by heavy armor.
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Ship Name: GTBx Vulture
Type: Heavy Bomber
Manufacturer: Joint RNI Systems/Nankam Aeronautical
Description: Designed as a replacement to the successful Boanerges experiment, the GTBx Vulture is more heavily armed, armored, and well-rounded. The Boanerges, though a combat-proven failure, succeeded in being an easily maintained(other than its weak hull) bomber. The Vulture has redundent systems for all major avionics with much heavier armor and a slightly improved secondary payload. All of its internal systems are modular, allowing a Vulture to have all of its Avionics replaced in about 3 hours time by a team 3 mecanics.
The biggest improvements, however, are in the self-defense area, particularly the light beam turret mounted between the engines. When RNI first tested this, it found that neither its engines or main reactors could reasonably handle the power output required by the redundant systems and defensive weaponry. So, they turned to Nankam Aeronautical, which provided a new dual-reactor unit and improved engines, giving it much better cruise and max cruise speeds, along with an improved afterburner speed.
Height: 8.1 meters
Width: 11.6 meters
Length: 34.1 meters
Gun Mounts: 2
Missle Banks: 3
Velocity: 60 m/s
Max Velocity: 70 m/s
Afterburner Max Velocity: 95 m/s
Allowed Primary Weapons: Mekhu ML-7, Suback HL-7, Maxim, Prometheus S, UD-8 Kayser, Morningstar, Circe
Allowed Secondaries: Fury, Rockeye, EMP Adv., Tornado, Trebuchet, Stiletto II, Piranha, Cyclops, Harpoon, Helios
Shields: 875
Hull: 625
Power Ouput per Second: 9
Scan Time: 2 seconds
Subsystems: Communication, Navigation, Weapons, Sensors, and 2 Engines
Would I just add a second part flagged as Communication 2/etc.?
Of course, you're here for the pics, right?
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/v1.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/v2.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/v3.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/v4.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/v5.jpg)
So, umm, whatcha think?
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Well, the model is looking a LOT better, much more in keeping with fs2 era stlying.
However, there are a few bits I'd change. The cockpit still seems very, squared off, and tight. Not much room in it. try sweeping the whole nose abit more, top and bottom, and more the canopy back a bit, so the rear is just under the top guns.
The gun turrets are now a bit too flat. The bases need more bulk to them, IMHO. Try working from same desgin as the Medusas turret. Remember whem it comes time to pof it, that they are the right way round.
The engine exhausts seem very small. Too small. Maybe thats the look your after, but I'd deepen the exhausts, in fact the whole engine block. Check out the engines of the Saturn V rocket. Crude compared to FS ships, but it shows the point: big engines need lota ehaust space.
Personally, I wouldn't have a beam cannon on it. Beams are real kick ass weapons, but GTVA versions are still kinda crude. I wouldn't put a beam on anything smaller than 100m. You can still use the aft turret, but replace the beam with a missile bank. Now that would be a surpise.
Zeta 2: "Zeta 3, that bomber is making a run on the convoy. Stop him!"
Zeta 3: "Roger that, I'm on him"
Zeta 2: "Watch out for those turrets! Their wearing your shields down!"
Zeta 3: "I know, I can handle it!"
Zeta 3: "I'm on his tail. Bye by..what the?"
Zeta 2: "3, come in! What was that?"
Zeta 3: "He just fired a Harpoon at me! Shields are down, hull buckled, weapo..... oh no...."
Zeta 2: "Zeta 3 is down!"
:drevil:
Now add a second gun bank under the belly, and you'll have a really good replacement for the pile of junk Boanerges.
Say, once you have this finshed (ie POFed, LODed, mapped, shielded etc) are you going to release it publicly? :nod:
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the cockpit seems tight, or maybe the bomber is huge? ;)
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Originally posted by Venom
the cockpit seems tight, or maybe the bomber is huge? ;)
Tight, as in, not much space inside for the pilot. ATM, it kinda looks like his/her feet would be up against the lower nose plate.
Or maybe it is just that the craft is huge.
Maybe all V fighter and bomber craft should be rescaled to their cockpits, about 50% would you say?
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Dimensions for the canopy part alone were listed a few posts ago. You're right about the ccockpit being pretty tight, just enough room for the pilot, his necessary instruments(I'm guessing a HOTAS control setup and voice-activated communication are probably standard in all GTVA fighters and bombers), and his HUD. Also, it's down front to allow for the avionics to easily be reached via the side-board weapons loading mounts. It also looks better this way.
Think of it like this: Where the Boanerges was a major foul up(and ugly to boot, kinda), this thing shines like Capella(and is sleek, kinda like the Perseus).
To put it simply, any part od the ship that is not Avionics, weapon bays/weapons, the engines, or the cockpit is armor.
About how powerful is the smallest/weakest Terran beam turret? I'm guessing not terribly powerful, especially if it were made to fit on a bomber.
If I were to replace it with something... I suppose I could replace it with a Maxim turret. Not really powerful, but it'll bounce anything that gets too close to the bomber's rear end around pretty nastily. I suppose throwing a couple 'poons out the back would work, as well.
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I fail to see the problem with the Boanerges. I can barely kill the Ravana in the alternative offered ie. the Medusa. All the Boanerges wanted was a couple of turret on it, and from a fiction point of view it would be easy enough for engineers to fit them in the field...
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just make the cockpit bigger. what is the poly count on the newest version? you have to try to keep it below 800.
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Originally posted by Raptor
Maybe all V fighter and bomber craft should be rescaled to their cockpits
Yes, they should.
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Originally posted by Venom
Yes, they should.
Ahh, but who would undertake such a massive task?
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Polycount on the newest version is a total of 290 polygons.
Ok, I think I'm gonna try my hand at texturing it now. Wish me a bit of luck and a lot Ibuprofen.
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That ship looks massive, 1/4 the size of a fenris massive, from a gaming point of view, a squad of four of these could probably give a Sathanas some trouble...
I'm not complaining like.
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Yes, unfortunately (IMO) people seem to think that bombers ought to be as big as possible. I can't see the fascination myself, but then it takes all sorts to make the intarweb work.
I do think the cockpit wants to be resized, though. You guys do realise that if the Volition ships were redone with more realistically sized cockpits, they'd look daft - right? It's the same as the physics, asthetics come before realism :nod:
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I'll try and make the cockpit "bigger" (whatever the Hell that means). It's not like it's out of proportion to the Boanerges, though. All we see for the cockpit of the Boanerges is a little slit for a window looking forward at the top of the anti-glare stripe on the nose.
Unless someone can show me what they're talkin' about, then I'm at a loss
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[color=66ff00]New version = three thumbs up :yes: :yes: :yes:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Yes, unfortunately (IMO) people seem to think that bombers ought to be as big as possible. I can't see the fascination myself, but then it takes all sorts to make the intarweb work.
bigger bombers can have more torpedos, more guns, more turrets, more shielding and armour. Just a thought.
I do think the cockpit wants to be resized, though. You guys do realise that if the Volition ships were redone with more realistically sized cockpits, they'd look daft - right? It's the same as the physics, asthetics come before realism :nod:
How so? Of course, the weapon sizes would be reduced too compensate, so thats not a problem....
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
I do think the cockpit wants to be resized, though. You guys do realise that if the Volition ships were redone with more realistically sized cockpits, they'd look daft - right? It's the same as the physics, asthetics come before realism :nod:
I never said to resize the cockpits, I said to resize the ships themselves ;)
all my OTT ships were scaled around the cockpit ( which often resulted with larger fighters than the FS2 ones. FS2 fighters are like WW2 fighters size-wise, OTT ones are like today's fighters ).
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Originally posted by Venom
I never said to resize the cockpits, I said to resize the ships themselves ;)
all my OTT ships were scaled around the cockpit ( which often resulted with larger fighters than the FS2 ones. FS2 fighters are like WW2 fighters size-wise, OTT ones are like today's fighters ).
That's what I meant, but I thought that if FS2 craft were resized as such, then they would be much smaller.
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I'm making my S:AAB ships as big as the canon measurements... but they all seem far to small. I'm seriously considering embigenning them all by, say, 50%, perhaps more for the big ships.
With Volition's fighters and bombers, the cockpits are out of proportion - look a twenty meter long fighter, and its cockpit is far bigger than any one human would need. This is an accepted part of V's models. Like I said, V went for looks over realism :nod:
As for the huge bombers thing, it's the same as making these enormous juggernauts - it justs get silly after a while. I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the GTVA would never build a bomber the size of a Fenris, but it seems to me that when people set out to build a bomber they often think that the size of the thing is the overriding factor...
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We should have ww2-esqe bombers....3x - 6x the size of fighters, and covered with turrets :D
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Originally posted by Analazon
We should have ww2-esqe bombers....3x - 6x the size of fighters, and covered with turrets :D
I 2nd that. :nod::yes:
Only thing is, cruisers would need to be bigger, or fighters much smaller.
How big are todays fighters, in metres?
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Well a fighter is probably somwhere between 45 and 60 feet, I'll leave you to convert that. The Tornado is quite a big one at 55 feet, but the new MiG 1-42 is 74 feet long, and that's generally considered to be huge.
Anyway, yes, I'd love to see bombers acting more like their WW counterparts. I mean, after all, FS is suposed to feel more like a WW dogfighter than a Newtonian space simulator, so V should have gone ahead and made bombers dangerous for a fighter to attack. One mistake and you're caught in the sights of a machine gunner. This is why I like the idea of big bombers like the Ursa having more crew than just the pilot - you want a bombadier, a navigator, a radio man and of course several turret gunners :)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well a fighter is probably somwhere between 45 and 60 feet, I'll leave you to convert that. The Tornado is quite a big one at 55 feet, but the new MiG 1-42 is 74 feet long, and that's generally considered to be huge.
Wait, I've got figures for converting feet into metres here....
45-60 feet -> 13.716m - 18.288m
Tornado at 55 feet -> 16.764m long
Mig 1-42 at 74 feet -> 22.5552m long
So compared to modern fighters, FS2 craft are not too bad, EXCEPT for the cockpits.
Maybe we should compare them to WW2 fighters instead....:doubt:
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WW2 fighters are around 10-15 meters long. A Dragon would be the size of a typical World War II fighter.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
This is why I like the idea of big bombers like the Ursa having more crew than just the pilot - you want a bombadier, a navigator, a radio man and of course several turret gunners :)
Why not just have a cyclops firing leviathan?
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We're talking airliner size, not aircraft carrier size.
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These textures are giving me a headache... well, I've made a few changes to the model. Namely fixed a lot of polygons that were outta place and made it look less like a lego toy. Current poly count is up to 335.
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Corsair114/Moo.jpg)
So far such a headache... well, anyways, the textures are slowly getting there. I might redo them, depending on how many complaints I get on their colors. As for now... my brain hurts. Buh-bye.
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[color=66ff00] The colours are great, I always thought that grey was a bit boring in the artform that is the game.
What program are you using to draw the textures?
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Originally posted by Corsair114
These textures are giving me a headache...
That's why doctors and medicines their are ;)
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I'm using Jasc Paint Shop Pro 7 and doing them mainly by hand with the Spray Can... err, airbrush. FSDS allows you to export .bmp textures of a given side, so you know where you're painting.
Also: Changed the rear turret from the beam to a Morning Star... tailgating is dangerous still, but you don't have to worry about the bombers wipeing out an entire wing of fighters on there own like if they had rear-firing Harps. It also achieves the same effect but to a better degree as the beam that had been there: Bounce the offending fighter around like a ping-pong ball.
Off to texture...
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Corsair, that is one damn fine ship you've got there. Looks great!
:):yes:
*jumps up and down in anticipation*