Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Sushi mk. 2 on January 01, 2002, 05:11:00 pm
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Hey, this is Sushi, I'm back for a bit, and wanted to finish off work on my own favorite fighter, the GTF Actaeon. Thanks to WraithHost for getting all the LODs and debris working right for me! All I need to do now is add briefing PCX files and maybe an animation, and fix one annoying bug with the thruster flames.
What I need help with is the thruster flames bug, pictured below. Basically, when the thruster flames grow-shrink depending on thrust setting, only the tip of the thruster model moves.
Here is the thrusters at full throttle...
(http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/act5a.gif)
At about half throttle...
(http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/act5b.gif)
And in park. Notice the thruster tip has moved nearly all the way in, as it should, but none of the others have moved, making the thruster model concave.
(http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/act5c.gif)
Anyone have any idea why this is happening, and more importantly, how to fix it? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks!
Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
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Not sure exactly why this may be happening, but check the following...
1/ Set the thruster object's axis to the point where the flames should end at when the throttle is at 0... if you don't want any flames, this means the very end of the object....
2/Also make sure the light is at this point...I think it may have to be placed accordingly for this to work.
From the looks of it, it's scaling back to the middle point of the object when it's at 0, so your axis needs to be moved back a bit
oh, and
Welcome Back!
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yahai! Welcome back to the creator of my favourite fs mod ever: the Velocity mod!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Otherwise, also make sure you used a planar UV mapping, coz FS2 can't handle other mappings for thrusters, I've been told.
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Must be planar? Really! That there is a cylindrical map, and I don't see how mapping can affect this problem, but I suppose it's worth a shot. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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how you project UV's is irelivent,
I can't see how anybody who knows how 3D engines work could say that if you apply UV's one way won't work any better than another (technicaly speaking).
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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
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Originally posted by Bobboau:
how you project UV's is irelivent,
I can't see how anybody who knows how 3D engines work could say that if you apply UV's one way won't work any better than another (technicaly speaking).
technically, that would make no pb, but if the UV mapping is tiled, tell me how the map deformation will look like.
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Well, it looks unlikely that it's the position of the lights, as far as I can tell, most models just pile them all at the center of the object and it works fine.
Aldo, which axis are you talking about?
And, as usual, new problems arise as well... I can't get the custom shield ANI or load screen PCX working. Driving me kind of nuts.
The current version of everything can be found here. ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/Actaeon.zip") If you want to take a look at it and help me figure out what's up, that could help a lot. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Sushi!!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) I was wondering where me favorite fellow MOD p1mper and food dissappeared to. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Aldo probably is right - if you use PCS to do the conversion then the positions of the lights and axises are doubly important as well.
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(http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)sushi!! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) Welcome back dude i already wonderd where you whent (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
still remember me? (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Cool fighter dude.
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Join our forums at The ModPlace![/b]
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Disappeared to? College. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I'll look into the light-axis thing- the lights in the model are all placed at it's center, last I checked anyway. And which axises? At what point do the thrusters even have a defined axis?
Another problem- my custom load PCX and shield ANI aren't working, and I have no idea why. They just don't show up. Both are the right res and 8-bit color. Any ideas what's going on?
Anyway, like I said, everything I have right now is availible in a quick Dload for your viewing pleasure... see above. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
I'll look into the light-axis thing- the lights in the model are all placed at it's center, last I checked anyway. And which axises? At what point do the thrusters even have a defined axis?
Get on ICQ and I'll explain things to ya - if you're using TS, that is... (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Disappeared to? College. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I'll look into the light-axis thing- the lights in the model are all placed at it's center, last I checked anyway. And which axises? At what point do the thrusters even have a defined axis?
Another problem- my custom load PCX and shield ANI aren't working, and I have no idea why. They just don't show up. Both are the right res and 8-bit color. Any ideas what's going on?
Anyway, like I said, everything I have right now is availible in a quick Dload for your viewing pleasure... see above. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
make sure you put the entries in the ships.tbl and HUD.tbl... I forgot, once, couldn't find what was wrong... man I felt stupid (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Disappeared to? College. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
I'll look into the light-axis thing- the lights in the model are all placed at it's center, last I checked anyway. And which axises? At what point do the thrusters even have a defined axis?
Another problem- my custom load PCX and shield ANI aren't working, and I have no idea why. They just don't show up. Both are the right res and 8-bit color. Any ideas what's going on?
Anyway, like I said, everything I have right now is availible in a quick Dload for your viewing pleasure... see above. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Er... would be the front-back axis... I don't have anything here to look at it justnow, so I'm not how your thruster is rotated (so I can't give the exact axis).
Other thing is double-check ALL your ani frames have the same palette (although I think ANIBuilder should sort that).... check size & number of frames methinks...
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Originally posted by aldo_14:
Other thing is double-check ALL your ani frames have the same palette (although I think ANIBuilder should sort that).... check size & number of frames methinks...
If any of those were the pb, the ani would work, it would just look ugly...
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Originally posted by venom2506:
If any of those were the pb, the ani would work, it would just look ugly...
Well, I remember something like that happening with my first ever shield ani, but it's sooo looong since then I can't really remember why .
I'm sure it's a palette thing, though.
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Originally posted by venom2506:
make sure you put the entries in the ships.tbl and HUD.tbl... I forgot, once, couldn't find what was wrong... man I felt stupid (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
Hmmm... Didn't even know you had to put anything in the HUD.tbl! That'll fix the shield problem, it looks like. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) Do you have to put load screens in a TBL somewhere? Which one?
The only 3D software I have right now is Lith, an expired version of 3DX, and the free download of TS1. And, at the moment, no ICQ. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Hmmm... Didn't even know you had to put anything in the HUD.tbl! That'll fix the shield problem, it looks like. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) Do you have to put load screens in a TBL somewhere? Which one?
The only 3D software I have right now is Lith, an expired version of 3DX, and the free download of TS1. And, at the moment, no ICQ. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
yes, loadscreens are in the ship entry in the ships.tbl, look at the end of the entry (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Hi Sushi.
good to hear from you again.
Yup , what they said.
I've never been able to get thrusters to work properly. I always get the problem you described.
It's probably something I did wrong when building your .cobs into a single .cob
I normally use 1 section thruster flames now
just to avoid this problem. If you find an answer, let me know so I can try & fix some of my models.
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Phil.
Trust In Me &
Fall As-well
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the axis of the light and thruster or just the thruster - I don't know, but it scales to where I put them, apart from one ship, which not matter where the axis is the back (just before end) verts don't scale...
its definatly the axis though
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Well, I've got the shield ANI working, the load screen still doesn't work. It's in the ships.tbl entry, but still doesn't work for some reason. Could it be a problem with the palette?
I have to admit, I still don't understand any of this stuff about the axis of the thrusters, where is that defined? I really know nothing about TS1, or what to do with it. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Hey Wraith, good to hear from ya, just wondering if you've tried using SCN files? PCS will allow you to import from either COB or SCN, so you don't necessarily have to combine everything into one COB. I don't think. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Anyway, everything I've done on this fighter so far (Thanks again, Wraith!) can be found here ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/Actaeon.zip"), so please take a look at it! Come on, everyone likes to be a beta tester! Alright, so it's more pre-alpha. But look at it anyway and tell me how to fix this stuff with my limited resources. Or you could be my new best friend and fix it for me. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Thanks for all your help!
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Well, I've got the shield ANI working, the load screen still doesn't work. It's in the ships.tbl entry, but still doesn't work for some reason. Could it be a problem with the palette?
I have to admit, I still don't understand any of this stuff about the axis of the thrusters, where is that defined? I really know nothing about TS1, or what to do with it. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Hey Wraith, good to hear from ya, just wondering if you've tried using SCN files? PCS will allow you to import from either COB or SCN, so you don't necessarily have to combine everything into one COB. I don't think. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Anyway, everything I've done on this fighter so far (Thanks again, Wraith!) can be found here ("http://sushicw.homestead.com/files/freespace/Actaeon.zip"), so please take a look at it! Come on, everyone likes to be a beta tester! Alright, so it's more pre-alpha. But look at it anyway and tell me how to fix this stuff with my limited resources. Or you could be my new best friend and fix it for me. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Thanks for all your help!
for the loadout screen, don't gorget the rular name is for the 640*480 mode, and the one with 2_nameofthepcx is for high res (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Aaaah... That I did NOT know. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) I bet that'll fix it!
Now for those pesky thruster flames... First person to figure it out gets a cookie! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Aaaah... That I did NOT know. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) I bet that'll fix it!
Now for those pesky thruster flames... First person to figure it out gets a cookie! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
hey... I figured out two of your problems already (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) I leave the hand to someone else (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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well I found my old copy of the cob files & moved the axis for the thruster flames right to the front of the flames.
Then I moved the lights to the same place.
Then I moved the axis of the group (model & light) to the same place.
The thruster flames still act odd.
I could remake the flames as a hexagonal pyrimid. 6 vertexes at the base and 1 at the peak. It should work & would look almost as good.
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Phil.
Trust In Me &
Fall As-well
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Originally posted by Sushi mk. 2:
Aaaah... That I did NOT know. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif) I bet that'll fix it!
Now for those pesky thruster flames... First person to figure it out gets a cookie! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
I think I know what is wrong. First I am going to assume that your thrusters are multiple triangles in length:
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\
___/
sorry for the pathetic ascii art, but anyway what I think the problem is is that FS2 can't handle thruster flames like the one I 'drew'. It needs to be 1 segment, or just a point. That is my theory, and if I just shoved my foot in my mouth because it works for other ships, I'm sorry (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif).
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-Analazon
Creator of the mod that will not be coming for a while
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Originally posted by Analazon:
I think I know what is wrong. First I am going to assume that your thrusters are multiple triangles in length:
___
\
___/
sorry for the pathetic ascii art, but anyway what I think the problem is is that FS2 can't handle thruster flames like the one I 'drew'. It needs to be 1 segment, or just a point. That is my theory, and if I just shoved my foot in my mouth because it works for other ships, I'm sorry (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif).
you may suffer from the mouth then: it works for other ships.
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Yep, it does. I honestly am stuck on this one- truth be told, I really don't have any modeling software availible right now anyway, so even if I wanted to go to 1-segment thrusters (ick) I can't. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/tongue.gif)
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Hey Wraith- try something for me, if you get the chance. Move the axis more to the center of the thruster, just behind the joint between the segments. I want to see if at least the end point can be controlled... I have a couple of ideas. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
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Hey Sushi, Check your e-mail.
I used the account you mailed me on ages ago so let me know if you've changed address.
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Phil.
Trust In Me &
Fall As-well
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Excellent, this is definitely an improvement. (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) Thanks again Wraith!