Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Goober5000 on August 06, 2003, 01:10:20 am
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The TVWP wants to know... should we present the Terran name for Vasuda, or should we leave it ambiguous? Post your opinions below.
Some useful listings of stars (http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/constellations/)
Yes, the poll has a timeout. :nervous:
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leave it as Vasuda, and, why are you asking? :wtf:
Sure, the Terrans may have seen it as a different star, but, they would only not know it as Vasuda if they met the Vasudans in Vasuda, which I don't think (and doubt) they did. So by the time they got translators working, they would have talked to the Vasudans, and the Vasudans would have called it Vasuda.
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her... :wtf:
Don't you think it would still be interesting to know?
anyway, the only people to know are the V people.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
leave it as Vasuda, and, why are you asking? :wtf:
Sure, the Terrans may have seen it as a different star, but, they would only not know it as Vasuda if they met the Vasudans in Vasuda, which I don't think (and doubt) they did. So by the time they got translators working, they would have talked to the Vasudans, and the Vasudans would have called it Vasuda.
I was thinking we'd discover the node to the star system as called by the Earth name first, and then change it later. We'd have a command briefing somewhat like this...
Terrans are unable to articulate the throaty sounds which make up the aliens' spoken language, but our diplomats have settled on an acceptable Terran Standard approximation for the name of the aliens' home planet. Beta Hydri IV will hereafter be known as Vasuda, and the Beta Hydri star as Vasuda Prime. The aliens will be called Vasudans rather than Beta Hyrdrians.
This change will take effect immediately, and is universal to all GTA correspondence.
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I think it'd be funny to call them Beta Hydrians for a few missions... It'd throw off anyone who didn't read this. :p
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Hehe, that's a good idea. :drevil:
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Delta Pavonis.
Ignore the lackwits who say 'leave it as Vasuda'. Your idea for the use of a Terran stellar designation for Vasuda Prime before they know the name 'Vasuda' is an intelligent and logical one.
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Rigel, coz it sounds cool.
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But honestly, is there anything in Vasudan speech that the word "Vasuda" could have originated from? :V: did a good job of making the Vasudans inhuman, their speech literally cannot be replicated by human vocal cords. Therefore it would follow that terrans would not call them by the pattern of sounds that they use to identify their own race as humans cannot make those sounds. It would have to have been a word in human language that got "mapped" to the Vasudans' word for themselves once translators got working. No telling what that word is (perhaps some religious movement on one of the colonies or something rather than a system name) but it is terran, not Vasudan, in origin.
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Actually, from listening to a few vasudan voice .wav's, I think that they could produce a sound similiar to the word "Vasuda". I'm sure it would sound raspy, but it was eventually terranized.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Beta Hydri IV will hereafter be known as Vasuda, and the Beta Hydri star as Vasuda Prime. The aliens will be called Vasudans rather than Beta Hyrdrians.
Umm. That's the wrong way round. Vasuda Prime is the planet and Vasuda the star. :p
Apart from that I agree that the Terrans would have another name for the system before they contacted the Vasudans.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Umm. That's the wrong way round. Vasuda Prime is the planet and Vasuda the star. :p
That's how I would rather do it, but there's the stubborn problem of the FS1 species.tbl saying that the Vasudans live on the fourth planet of the Vasuda Prime system. :rolleyes:
Maybe I could move the Vasudans to the first planet, Vasuda I (Vasuda Prime) and hope nobody notices. :nervous:
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Originally posted by Goober5000
That's how I would rather do it, but there's the stubborn problem of the FS1 species.tbl saying that the Vasudans live on the fourth planet of the Vasuda Prime system. :rolleyes:
Maybe I could move the Vasudans to the first planet, Vasuda I (Vasuda Prime) and hope nobody notices. :nervous:
Just say that it's called prime cause it's the most important :)
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Then possibly you are looking at a Binary System, Vasuda Prime and Vasuda Minor?
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by Goober5000
That's how I would rather do it, but there's the stubborn problem of the FS1 species.tbl saying that the Vasudans live on the fourth planet of the Vasuda Prime system. :rolleyes:
Maybe I could move the Vasudans to the first planet, Vasuda I (Vasuda Prime) and hope nobody notices. :nervous:
just assume they messed up in the tbl, and that's it. It does happen, particularly in FS fluff :p
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Originally posted by Flipside
Then possibly you are looking at a Binary System, Vasuda Prime and Vasuda Minor?
Flipside :D
That is probably the case as most stars in the galaxy are binaries.
Subspace nodes also do not relate to actual distance in light years. That means that Vasuda Prime could be on the other side of the galaxy or otherwise not visible from Earth.
Also, contact with the Vasudans probably occured before discovering this system, so the name for it has probably always been Vasuda Prime.
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What if we were unable to pick up their vessels on scanners and managed to happily avoid eachother until you Terrans enterred our home system?
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Let's name it Setech (sp?)!
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Originally posted by Ace
Also, contact with the Vasudans probably occured before discovering this system, so the name for it has probably always been Vasuda Prime.
tell me how you can assume that?
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Originally posted by Venom
tell me how you can assume that?
There are so many Vasudan systems we have to pass through it seems we would have made contact at some point.
Although it might be a cool twist to say the the Vasudans didn't know about inter-system subspace until the Terrans got there.;7
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Yeah, but that takes the fun out of it...
Imagine it... A Terran vessel emerges in Beta Hydri only to be surrounded by Anubises, and possibly a Seth (Vasudan Ace? Dunno timeframe on Seth) and diplomacy begins... Or fails, however you look at it.
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Originally posted by Solatar
There are so many Vasudan systems we have to pass through it seems we would have made contact at some point.
There aren't really.
Delta Serpentis (definately Terran)
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Beta Aquilae (Now joint but definately Terran back then)
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Antares (Don't know about this one)
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Vasuda
If Antares was Terran before the world then the first contact with the Vasudans was probably in Vasuda.
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We could have gone the long way around through Vega and Deneb.:D
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Originally posted by Solatar
There are so many Vasudan systems we have to pass through it seems we would have made contact at some point.
Although it might be a cool twist to say the the Vasudans didn't know about inter-system subspace until the Terrans got there.;7
yeah, but assuming we can see stars that are probably much farther away already ( capella for exemple ), I doubt scientists "forgot" to discover vasuda.
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Originally posted by Solatar
We could have gone the long way around through Vega and Deneb.:D
;7
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It looks that the 'leave Vasuda' has the lead by far. I voted that, too. We all know it like Vasuda, so while playing the mod, it wouldn't be a question 'where the hell is Arturus? Ah ... a new system only used by TVWP!'
It would be evident what system the player is grinding the Vasudans :D.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Umm. That's the wrong way round. Vasuda Prime is the planet and Vasuda the star. :p
I disagree. Given that Sol is Earth's primary, our sun is Sol Prime, and the planets are Sol-I thru Sol-IX. I know that anytime I ever see something listed as "Arcturus Prime" in print, I make the assumption that they are talking about the STAR, not any given planet.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.
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Well, in DS9 they mentioned Cardassia Prime a lot, and I'm pretty sure they were talking about the planet.
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Prime is a term used for planets in B5 and Star Trek and I've seen in in several other science fiction sources.
If Sol was a binary star system then the stars would be Sol A and Sol B.
Even if you're correct (which I doubt you are) the terminology used in FS2 refers to Vasuda and Cygnus Prime as planets.
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Actually, there are names for pretty much every star in this galaxy now, certainly any one bright enough to bear a habitable planet. We've even named most of the stars in the Magellenic Clouds and Andromeda now :)
http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/chview/chv5.htm
Most stars are named using a simple catalogue system though, so having the Vasudans coming from DB-223 or I-21 might be more realistic in some ways :)
Finally, it should be remembered that any star more than about 80ly from Sol that is bright enough to give a specific name to is usually a giant and would be less likely to sustain life as we understand it (Now I'm a Vulcan Science officer - great)
Flipside ;D
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Well, in DS9 they mentioned Cardassia Prime a lot, and I'm pretty sure they were talking about the planet.
BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
you take star trek as an exemple to prove scientific facts?
I laugh at you :p
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Not scientific facts - nomenclature. Or, look at Cygnus Prime in the debriefing for FS2 mission 1. :ha:
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Well, in the most basic sense "Prime" means "1" so generally a stellar body with "prime" in its name is either the first/central system in a multi-system inhabited area (A capitol world/system if you will) or the first planet in a solar system. It just designates the object/place as being of heightened importance.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Not scientific facts - nomenclature. Or, look at Cygnus Prime in the debriefing for FS2 mission 1. :ha:
basically, if it's in ST, it's wrong. that's it.
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That's means theres a lot of very worried astro-physicists out there, considering quite a few reknowned NASA scientists are Trekkies and are often called in to help out 'realifying' plots.
However, in the case of Prime, it doesn't so much mean '1' as 'First', I suppose that from a Terran point of View, the Star should be Vasuda Prime, since it was discovered first. However, the Vasudans had been discovering their home planet on a daily basis for millions of years, so I suppose to them, the planet would be Prime.
Also, the other meaning of the word Prime is 'Source' or 'Origin' . So, from that point of view, it still points to the Star, since it is the 'Beginning' of the system in Astronomical Terms.
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by Flipside
That's means theres a lot of very worried astro-physicists out there, considering quite a few reknowned NASA scientists are Trekkies and are often called in to help out 'realifying' plots.
ah, didn't now the shuttle had interpolarized subnuclear retroconductors in superphase :doubt:.
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Back in days long past (most of which you guys don't remember for various reasons) the original Freespace Universal Reference Project picked Beta Hydri for Vasuda. I don't remember why (I think there was some reasoning for it), but ever since that has been what it is to me.
I assumed that unofficial contact with the Vasudans occured pretty quickly, probably in Antares. The Vasudans had, for various reasons, overlooked the node to Antares (again, assumed) until about the same time Terran settlers entered the system. Antares later became the front line of the 14 Year War.
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ah, didn't now the shuttle had interpolarized subnuclear retroconductors in superphase .
LOL, How else do you think they got a cup of coffee ;)
To be honest, no, of course it didn't but if it wasn't for some people dreaming them up, scientists would say 'Hmmmm.... that could work' and Engineers wouldn't say 'Hmmmmm... I think we can make something that makes that work'.
After all, if someone hadn't dreamed of propellers, we'd still be jumping off towers with wings strapped to our arms ;)
Flipside.
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Originally posted by Flipside
LOL, How else do you think they got a cup of coffee ;)
To be honest, no, of course it didn't but if it wasn't for some people dreaming them up, scientists would say 'Hmmmm.... that could work' and Engineers wouldn't say 'Hmmmmm... I think we can make something that makes that work'.
After all, if someone hadn't dreamed of propellers, we'd still be jumping off towers with wings strapped to our arms ;)
Flipside.
well yeah, but during middle age, they thought they could turn lead into gold. and it seems the big bang theory was wrong.
scientists can dream, yeah, but dreams are usually things that won't happen in real life ;)
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LOL Very true, but then, they laughed at Darwin, and at Gallileo for their 'preposterous' claims as well. Let's just say that the science of ST is 'Hollywooded up' but is usually based in current scientific thinking. The fact that current current scientific thinking is 'At first there was nothing, which exploded' is beside the point ;) hehehehehe
Anyway, I'm doing my usual and have touched down safely on planet OffTopic, so I'll leave you all to it ;)
Flipside
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Originally posted by Eishtmo
Back in days long past (most of which you guys don't remember for various reasons) the original Freespace Universal Reference Project picked Beta Hydri for Vasuda. I don't remember why (I think there was some reasoning for it), but ever since that has been what it is to me.
Interesting. Beta Hydri stuck in my head for some reason - maybe I unconsciously remembered it from somewhere. It seems to make sense, anyway.
Where was the old FSURP located? Perhaps the Wayback Machine has an archive of it.
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Originally posted by Flipside
'At first there was nothing, which exploded'
LOL!
My teacher explained it this way:
There are planes of space-ness like so
____________________________
____________________________
and one day, they collided like so:
____________________________
___________/\________________
and caused a big explosion in the vast nothing that there was between the planes...
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Originally posted by Venom
basically, if it's in ST, it's wrong. that's it.
Is that Star Trek or Silent Threat?
Does it matter?
...
Back on topic. I say Beta Hydri, which is then renamed to Vasuda after the contact. Note that all the other systems on the nodemap have Terran names; I believe it's our culture to give things familiar names, while the natives give systems their own names. (I'm positive the Vasudans have their own name for Barnard's Star.) The Vasudan nodemap probably has each star labeled with its own Vasudan ancestral name. I know that the Scroll of Atankharzim's new systems have Vasudan names, regardless of what they may be called on Terran star charts, because it is told from a Vasudan point of view.
Perhaps Vasuda was chosen to reinforce the fact that it is a home system of a sentient species, and also to provide a focus for the propaganda machine once war broke out. Later the name was kept after the war, partially out of habit and partially out of respect. I'm sure the Vasudans followed suit, naming our home system Sol from whatever it was when Vasudan astronomers first named it.
Solator: The Vasudans must have known about inter-system travel; the FS Ref bible says the Vasudans moved out into
other systems quickly because their home climate was so harsh.
One last note: If you're looking for the old FSURP, it's still there. Find the link in one of the news posts on the front page.
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Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
One last note: If you're looking for the old FSURP, it's still there. Find the link in one of the news posts on the front page.
But that's the new old FSURP. If you'll take a look at Shadowman's post, he says that it's new. Which means there was an even older version at one point.
Speaking of which, that site needs some more updating. :D Perhaps you should ask for a forum, and anyone who wants information on the site could post a thread with their stuff in it.
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I chose leave it as Vasuda, but Beta Cygni also sounds good.
It makes sense that the Terrans would rename the system once they found out there was sentient life there. I chose Vasuda, because the Terrans call the Vasudans Vasudans, and it doesn't make sense for the Vasudans to call themselves and their sun such similar names.
But as someone said above, the Vasudans might be able to say something like "Vasuda". I can just see a Terran pointing at himself and saying "Bob.", then a Vasudan pointing at himself and saying "Woo-suud-uh" :D
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Originally posted by WMCoolmon
I chose leave it as Vasuda, but Beta Cygni also sounds good.
......
Beta Cygni? :wtf: :confused: You surely point Beta Hydri.
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Originally posted by TopAce
Beta Cygni? :wtf: :confused: You surely point Beta Hydri.
Maybe but Beta Cygni (http://www.stellar-database.com/Scripts/search_star.exe?Name=beta+cygni) does exist
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yep, but beta cygni is actually part of the FS universe so it can't be used for Vasuda :D
as for Vasuda Prime -- in the FS universe Prime refers to planets.
If Vasuda Prime were Vasuda's sun, the shivans wouldve bombed the sun .... lol - oh, and imagine the vasudans building their houses on the sun - :rolleyes:
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Yeah, I meant Beta Cygni is already seized in the FS universe, too. :cool:
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Main Entry: 2prime
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, feminine of prin first, from Latin primus; akin to Latin prior
Date: 14th century
1 : first in time : ORIGINAL
2 a : of, relating to, or being a prime number -- compare RELATIVELY PRIME b : having no polynomial factors other than itself and no monomial factors other than 1 c : expressed as a product of prime factors (as prime numbers and prime polynomials)
3 a : first in rank, authority, or significance : PRINCIPAL b : having the highest quality or value c : of the highest grade regularly marketed -- used of meat and especially beef
4 : not deriving from something else : PRIMARY
- prime·ly adverb
- prime·ness noun
The use of 'prime' after a proper name like Cygnus probably refers to the most populated world in the system which would be the most important socially, politically, and economically.
Earth would be Sol Prime.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
Interesting. Beta Hydri stuck in my head for some reason - maybe I unconsciously remembered it from somewhere. It seems to make sense, anyway.
Where was the old FSURP located? Perhaps the Wayback Machine has an archive of it.
Probably from me. I made direct reference to it in the prolouge for the Great War story.
As for where, I have no clue. It was created just after FS1 came out so it might actually be older than the Wayback Machine. If the address still exists (something I doubt), it might be in the old Freespace webring. If that still exists.
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Well, the Archive goes back to 1996. I found a link on Dark's site, but all I could get was the front page...
http://web.archive.org/web/19990508050826/http://209.239.63.235/
But Dark's page only linked to the FSURP via a numerical address (http://209.239.63.235/). If someone could remember the domain name, that might yield better search results. :)
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I meant Beta Hydri in my last post. :o
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Originally posted by Venom
ah, didn't now the shuttle had interpolarized subnuclear retroconductors in superphase :doubt:.
I bet Captain Picard wanks with a quantumprotonconductor forcefield.
EDIT: I voted for Beta Hydri.
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Beta Hydri, simply for the realism factor. It's one of those cool twists that make or break a campaign - just like Warzone (or was it Derelict?) had that dream mission. :yes: