Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Goober5000 on August 08, 2003, 03:46:05 am
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I'm working on final POF data for the TVWP ships, and I've run into an annoying problem. None of the custom ships we're using have their thruster animations displayed...
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/14_year_war/temp/screen01.jpg)
Here's a Herc II placeholder ship for reference. Note the blue flames behind the ship which are not displayed in the above picture.
(http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/14_year_war/temp/screen02.jpg)
So I can only conclude that I missed something while adding thruster data, but I can't figure out what. Any help?
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mmh... maybe you missed something, but first I suggest you try your pof on another PC. Half of my OTT models didn't show their thrusters on MY PC, but ran find on anybody else's one ( oh the irony ).
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Oh it does this to you too?
Good, I'm not alone. My Crimion lost it's thrusters too, and I can't figure out why...:confused:
Edit: I did have them at the begininning, Then on another run of the game they acted funny, and during third time were gone.
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[geuss]possible problem is your including the still file of the thruster like thruster01.pcx. You probably put that in your effects/maps folder (geussing maps) and now you are confusing freespace as to what it needs to use. Try that.[/geuss]
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I don't think so...
*rummages through data/*.* folders*
Edit: Checked, nope. No such files...
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Eh.... then im as confused as you :confused:
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Double-check for spelling errors in the pof data.
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They all show up fine in ModelView, so I know they're there... just not in-game.
I did a search, and it seems a lot of other people have had this problem too. Apparently it has to do with the particular kind of geometry used on the V models. But the only thing approaching a solution is what I found here...
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,7632.0.html
Originally posted by Grunt
As I know the thruster problem is somehow related to the video card and bad texture vertex data generated by Truespace. In some configs it just doesn't show up.
The only workaround I could find (using the Diamond Viper 770) was to import the thruster object into Segeltuch as dxf file, and retexture it face by face. Then I created a POF, and copied the thruster chunk into the POf of the real model with a HEX editor.
I've never used Segeltuch for other jobs, but it's the only prog wich I can make working thruster flames with. :D
I'm not really that advanced in modding to venture to try it. Any other ideas?
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Mm, well, on more than one occasion I've solved weird model problems by taking each subobject and converting them into separate pofs and then back again, and then recombining them into one cob before converting to pof a second time. It sometimes helps when things go wonky---no promises though.
Edit: Oh, and get 3d exploration from off of Aldo's Reciprocity site and run the model through that, too. It's very useful for conversion, and seems to do a good job in taking care of texturing oddities.
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I have never had that problem, but I use MS3D (YAY!) and 3dexploration anyway so i guess its luck? infact I have never really had any unsolvable problems (with tables I mean) even with geometry (every thing i have tried was fine execept a extruded cube dubled back on it self (:shaking: ) I used as a LOD3. PCS REALLY didn't like that :D
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But.. but... I took the thruster plumes off of the Medusa and stretched them a bit for the Crimion... Still no go...
Maybe I will try Segeltuch, even though it'll fux0r up all of my other pof data...
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I never liked those thrusters anyway, I think it would be nice to switch to particles once and for all ( see Xwing alliance or Freelancer ). would be simpler to do ( a simple expansion of the engine glow, set up in modelview or aurora ), and would look better.
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Well, 'Super Spammin Frenchman', it's you're civic duty to make sure it gets implemented. ;)
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freelancers engines looked crap, they looked like they were weak and silly like they were just torches or something not fast and hard like curret jet fighters afterburners:cool:
ofcousre if you can do EXACTLY what you want with them thats ok but if they are limited to stuff like that... i'll have to execute them...:hopping:
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Well, why not have someone draw up a new kind of thruster plume?
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[dilbert]Right, your in charge[/dilbert]
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Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
[dilbert]Right, your in charge[/dilbert]
*smacks you with a trout*
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
*smacks you with a trout*
*smacks you with huge trout and you fall into canal*
:D
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Originally posted by LAW ENFORCER
freelancers engines looked crap, they looked like they were weak and silly like they were just torches or something not fast and hard like curret jet fighters afterburners:cool:
heh?
(http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/art/fl/large/screen04.jpg)
dunno about you, but I think that looks much more like a real afterburner than a textured polys that turns yellow when you engage burners.
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LOL Must admit, I'm definately with Venom on this one, adding a particle emitter (I think FL uses two, one for the 'thrust' and one for the 'rings') means not only do you not need to model a thrust, but you can pick any damn colour thruster you like, since you should be able to choose which Bitmap it spews ;)
Flipside :)
Arrrrrrrr.... Localised Nebulaaaaaa.......
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they have the 'style' of them but ingame they feel wishy washy and bland - bright and smooth yes but I never liked them for a REAL space game :doubt:
the current thrusters have problems are not very good looking and would be better if they were replaced but I would hate it if FL style ones replaced them!
Incidently I had a friend over the other day - I installed FL on two systems to play. (we were board). After an hour of getting used to controls and talking and flying and stuff.... he had exhausted the entire game and what it had to offer... he said "this game is absoutly rubbish! Its so repeative!" He never said that about any other game....
Flipside - Another thing I noticed about FL was the nebulae backgrounds.... there was ONE background that had any amount of open black space! it was annyoing! Like a FS2 mission with FAR TOO MANY nabulae! Yes the localised nebulas ARE a good point in FL though
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question of taste, please do not turn this thread into a "FL sux0r!!!!" flamewar.
as for how the AB look like, it's up to the one who draws the bitmap.
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dont worry, I dont think FL sux, the single player saved it somewhat - I was just lied to and it was over hyped but enought of that
what 'technique' does that use and how much control over it do you have
(I think its a particle geneorator and other people have said that too)
and why do particles to have such loose trajecories? you can change that right?
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Originally posted by Venom
question of taste, please do not turn this thread into a "FL sux0r!!!!" flamewar.
as for how the AB look like, it's up to the one who draws the bitmap.
Actually, if you could implement something like that just without those lame rings around th ethrusters it'd be freakin awesome...
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the rings are when afterburners are engage. real jets sometimes show the same kind of rings when they engage their AB ( well, actually, they're always there, but they're usually dificult to see. they lok like they're slowly going back and fade away ):
(http://www.tomcattersassociation.org/F3/images/f3-inflight-afterburner.jpg)
bad pic, sorry
(http://www.habu.org/lockheed/955-19Diamonds.JPG)
they look more like rugby balls there, it's odd...
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Yes, it's something to do with Stutterfeeding air into the ignition chamber, but I can't remember the physics of it :( I became out-of-date when they stopped using pitot-static systems to measure altitude etc ;)
Hmmmmm... I'm going to post this in the Source Code section, I'll probs just get laughed at, but if they could create a modder-definable particle system (i.e. The modder defines the 'widget' bitmap and it's in-game size, the spew rate, velocity (For each axis), lifetime etc), not only could you use these for thrusters, you could also have something like a Waypoint object, which is the source of the particle emitter, possibly even set it's values in Fred as well ;)
Flipside
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A particle system could wastly improve the look of energy weapons, since designers could finally achieve a lot more complex looking shots (hmm...lightning storm? - fractals can do wonders).
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well im pretty sure that 'air' wont be a problem with the ships im doing.... (well MOST of them;) )
yeah im for particle stuff - (why do i always say thats crap! and then think why is it crap? and then think ah its good as long as...)
The thruster 'swung' in FL didn't it? I want it to be 'rigid' in my TC so the ability to fine tune every part of the PS would be better than just replacing the thrusters... which is obvious but where else is Captain Obvious and his side kick Duh going to get work?
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Hmmmm.... Rigid Thrusters are a bit more difficult than 'bendy' ones. A standard particle thruster would just drop 1 bitmap every frame, which would fade to transparent over, e.g. 60 frames. This means that when the ship turns, the bitmap stays where it was dropped, causing a 'curved' effect.
Rigid thrusters are usually not particle systems, they are done in the same way as the FS2 thrusters, only brighter ;) If you were to do a particle system for 'straight' thrusters, you would have to compute a point far behind the 'back' of the ship and constantly change the trajectory of the particles towards that point, I think it would be quite CPU hungry alas :(
Flipside :)
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I know, thats why I was 'against' it in the first place...
I never liked (read hated) freelancer's 'bendy engy':doubt:
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True, but anything has got to be better than British Gas adverts that vanish on a whim :(
Flipside :D
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whats wrong with brittish gas?
*snaps finger and thumb*
*gas runs out*
ah....
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LOL Yep, that's pretty much what happens in Freespace as well :(
Flipside :D
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*bump*
I found this post on the old FDL list that talks about making thrusters before they had any WYSIWYG POF editors.
http://ml.warpcore.org/fdl/199906/msg00000.html
Note this particular point...These special thruster textures CANNOT BE TILED. If a thruster texture
does not fit the face it is applied to without tiling, it will not be
displayed, and you will have an invisible thruster flame.
I assume that this means the thruster subobjects have to be a particular size so that the texture will fit onto them. But the ships in FS have all different sizes and shapes (c.f. Pegasus vs. Herc II). So what does this mean, exactly?
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More information:
Thrusters whose faces are too large to display thruster anis without
tiling will have invisible faces (although they are still there). So,
you'll need to have small thrusters.
Remember, too, that they can only face in one direction.
As a rule of thumb, the Faustus thrusters are the largest that Volition
uses.
Does this mean that it's only the size of the polygons that matters? So you can't have a thruster poly bigger than 64x64?
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What it means is that you can't have a repeating texture.
In truespace the values are called U repts and V repts. Both of these must be set to 1. Any higher will cause invisible thrusters.
Just for completeness I'll try to explain what the number means.
In the first picture the repetions are set to U16 V4.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/Misc-Pics/TextureRepeat1.jpg)
When I change the values to U16 V16 the texture is repeated more often.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/Misc-Pics/TextureRepeat2.jpg)
If I changed the U value the same thing would happen but vertically.
What most likely happened was the the default UV mapping on the thruster was wrong and whoever made the ship compensated by simply having more repeatitions. That works in Truespace (or whatever modeller was used) but in FS2 it won't work.
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So re-UV-mapping a bad fighter will cause thrusters to properly show up?
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Hopefully so, just make sure you don't tile it.
I seem to recall I got thrusters working on a ship once though, and then they just vanished a few days later :(
All I can say is thank God for SCP ;)
Flipside :D
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Yeah it should work if the problem is the one you quoted. If it's a different problem with similar symptoms then who knows? :)
Keep the old pof and it should just be a 5-10 minute job to change the UV map, re-pof and import all the chunks back in with PCS :)
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FL is great....
Bendy thrusters are more realistic than rigid ones....
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Well, I prefer bendy thrusters, but to be honest, they are not more 'real'. Bendy thrusters suggest the vehicle is travelling faster than the thrust, which is impossible, you watch a plane in a flat spin and you will notice the thrusters are 'rigid'.
Either way, since when has FS2 had much to do wi th 'real' ;)
Flipside :D
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just make sure you have the thruster submodel named corectly, this was a long term issue with one of the BWO fighters
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Yup...we did have that problem didn't we.