Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Unknown Target on August 08, 2003, 11:05:55 am
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I KNOW this has been asked already, but how many fleets does the GTVA have? FSURP, you REALLY need to update with all this stuff. Anyways, I'm thinking only 3. I'm adding a 4th fleet in my campaign, but I'd like to know if there were any more.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
I'm thinking only 3.
On the contrary... (http://pub11.ezboard.com/fjtofrm11.showMessage?topicID=23.topic)
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Thanks...I think :D You just made me spend 20 minutes detailing what the hell is happening + matching it up to my node map :D :rolleyes:
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the link doesnt work at least when i tried it !
Aaaaa......if the GTVA had some 4 fleets does it meen that if in my campaign story I have more then 20 im overdoingit...?????
And I would realy like to know how many CAp ships were in the whole GTVA before the start of the rebelion and the shivan war..!
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Try it again. The link works fine for me. The Link has the GTVA having 26 fleets in total (although one of them is in Sol :D ) so your 20 fleets are fine.
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Yep it works just fine now thanks!
But that still doesnt answer my question..about how many cap ships were in the GTVA before the start of the rebelion and the start of the second shivan campaign!
I would realy like to know because I Have somewhere in the order of 90 destroyers some 60 or more friggates and some 70 or more corvettes and some 80 cruisers or less not to mention the arival later in may campaign story of several SD some shivan some terran and one of undetermened origin...plus 2 SC..so i gues im overdooing it..!
But you must keep in mind this takes place some 50 years or more after the second shivan war with ship construction sped up by more the 150% (technology:D ) not to mention later the capture of several construction yards shivan ones...!and a huge amount of resources from the shivans!This fleet size contains older class of cap ships including the Hecate mkI some 10 of the but they were fazed out eventualy with the Aquitane beeing the only one left in service after several upodates of its engines and weponsistems and a huge amount of money put into it ("with the money put into keeping it up to date they could of built 3 Hecate MKII mich more powerfull and faster..or 2 of the newest Nebula destroyers" said some terran pilot at one time...!)
This ship was kept into service for morale reasons then milatary reasons ...but none the less the Aquitane could do some real damage to even the newwest destroyers..and in special circumstances even win...!
So as not to deviate from the priginal question How many cap ships did the GTVA had?
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90 destroyers? That's SO many. I think there are at most 10 or 15 of them. Including the older, non-modified Great War-era destroyers like the Bastion. This 10-15 excludes the Colossus and the Hades.
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Youd have a ratio of at least 2/1 corvettes to destroyers, destroyers are after all, much more than a big ship they also require all the fighters/bombers and much larger crews.
Its like saying the USN has 90 aircraft carriers and 60 destroyers to look after them
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Originally posted by Mr Carrot
....Its like saying the USN has 90 aircraft carriers and 60 destroyers to look after them
OK, but compare a few hundred meters long ship(on water) with a 2 kilometers long behemoth ships(in space). And there is still no word about the cost of maintance, repairs, fighters, and weaponry.
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Originally posted by TopAce
OK, but compare a few hundred meters long ship(on water) with a 2 kilometers long behemoth ships(in space). And there is still no word about the cost of maintance, repairs, fighters, and weaponry.
And? You compare the size of space with the size of our oceans... :rolleyes:
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Yes. Why?
Look at the text I have quoted. Mr. carrot began comparing space with water.:thepimp:
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well water or no water, 90 destroyers is very extreme. I could stomach 20 terran destroyers before the NTF war (though that would be a lot) as you see at least half a dozen of them. And I think that if you were to count up the destroyers that actually appeared or were referenced in FS2 you would find at least a dozen. However, I would definately say that there should be at least 2 corvettes, maybe 3 or 4, to every one destroyer, and there should be 2 cruisers to a corvette if you are still using them. And the mysterious "Frigate" designation... I've yet to see it incorperated into the FS designations with any reliability. Explain their role a bit more before we can give you an estimate on how many your fleets should have.
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*thinks there should be 3 - 4 destroyers per fleet (per system)
*4 Corvettes to a destroyer
*3 cruisers to a corvette
* at least 6 AWACs ships per fleet (per system)
* lots of support ships
Remember, this may souind a lot, but an entire star system is a big place to hold.
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As it was never mentioned that the 3rd Fleet was being assisted by anybody but the 13th Vasudan Battle Group we can assume that all allied Terran vessels are a part of the 3rd Fleet.
Even after the Shivans appeared, there was no mention of other Fleets moving into the Capella system to aid in halting the Shivan advance.
We can also assume that since Capella was the capital of the Alliance that the 3rd Fleet was probably double strength as the politicians would have wanted their candy-asses protected better.
The 3rd Fleet consisted of 4 destroyers, at least 6 corvettes and probably twice, more likely three times that number of cruisers.
So the average fleet would consist of 2 destroyers, 3-4 corvettes and 8-12 cruisers.
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Actually...it says in one of the failed debriefings I believe (nonetheless it does say) that Beta Aquilae is the capital of the GTVA where the security council and any alliance related discussions go on. The Vasudan Imperium is either in the Vasuda system or in Aldebarran and the Terran Assembly is probably based in Delta Serpentis (since it takes the place of the GTA provisional government setup there after The Great War).
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Originally posted by Liberator
As it was never mentioned that the 3rd Fleet was being assisted by anybody but the 13th Vasudan Battle Group we can assume that all allied Terran vessels are a part of the 3rd Fleet.
Even after the Shivans appeared, there was no mention of other Fleets moving into the Capella system to aid in halting the Shivan advance.
We can also assume that since Capella was the capital of the Alliance that the 3rd Fleet was probably double strength as the politicians would have wanted their candy-asses protected better.
The 3rd Fleet consisted of 4 destroyers, at least 6 corvettes and probably twice, more likely three times that number of cruisers.
So the average fleet would consist of 2 destroyers, 3-4 corvettes and 8-12 cruisers.
Err.. no. :wtf:
There was mention of the 4th fleet based at Vega, the 6th fleet based at Epsilon Pegasai, and a 11th or 13th or 14th fleet based in Wolf 359 IIRC. The 3rd fleet was it's own fleet, not the entire Allied fleet and Capella is deffinitely not the Capital of the GTVA, see Ice's post.
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The most important GTVA systems are where the conventions were made. Beta Aquilae, and Deneb.
The Vasudans surely had a Vasuda Prime convention, but it is not topic as of this moment. :rolleyes:
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is Deneb still populated ?
the intro gives the impression the planet was mostly wiped out.
Maybe it's importance is purely it's location ?
Is the Colossus (and it's group) considered part of 3rd fleet ?
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Originally posted by magatsu1
is Deneb still populated ?
the intro gives the impression the planet was mostly wiped out.
Maybe it's importance is purely it's location ?
Is the Colossus (and it's group) considered part of 3rd fleet ?
Well, if Deneb had a convention, it is probably still populated... The Lucifer didn't glase the planet like it did Vasuda so...
The Colossus and its group was referred to as the Colossus Battlegroup several times, so it can probably be considered a Battlegroup that would be traveling from place to place because of situations that it may assist.
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Not to mention there is more than one planet in deneb...
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Not to mention there is more than one planet in deneb...
Doh!:ick
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It's quite likely that the planet we see in the intro isn't the main world in Deneb.
In the first mission of FS2 they drop over 1/2 million troops on "the inhabited planet Cygnus Prime" I doubt they'd bother for the desert world in the intro. Nuke it from orbit more likely :D
As for the size of the fleets they refer to the Suprise attack in Epsilon Pegasi as wiping out a large percentage of the fleet and having 75,000 casualties. That means that the fleet must be pretty huge since you have 10,000 men to a destroyer and 6,000 on a corvette.
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Yes, remember the first Mission in Fs2 where you are evac-ing Vasudan Colonists from Cygni (Deneb) Prime, and after that 600,000 GTVA Marines landed to disbatch of the NTF? :D
Kara: :p
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how about one warship per fleet, with some having a second old orion waiting to be decomissioned but still serving
kinda like modern warships replacing the old ones with some overlap time
makes sense since a destroyer would act as the major hub in military operations, so why bother with two HQs?
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wouldn't "The Battle of/for Deneb" be the fight for the "capital" planet of the system ?
That's what I was thinking anyway.
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I always assumed it was to regain control of the system and give the alliance a foothold to repel the shivans with.
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Well I must admit that 90 destroyers is quite a lot but considering the fact that the new GTVF(aka GTVA) is some 10 sistems larger and later in the war manahes to gain hold of some very rich in resource sistems more the 15 from the shivans..(one sistem having multiple jump points to several sistems..!)
Also the role of a friggate is to provide aditional support in case of battle without bringing into battle sveral cruisers..that is why my fleets are grouped this way:
-4 destroyers
-3 or more corvettes
-3 or more friggates and 4 maibe 5 cruisers i mean its cheaper and these friggates are more powerfull than a corvette and weker than a destroyer.!
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How about just placing 1 Alpha 1 copy in every system?
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The Battle of Deneb wasn't about Deneb, it was a last ditch effort by the GTA and PVE to stop the Lucifer before it could reach Vasuda. The Shivans never took over a planet, but seemed to be more interested in controling individual jump nodes, so Deneb was probably safe, and still controled by either the GTA or PVE.
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It would be very unlikely that a system would have multiple planets that could sustain human life in its open environment. The planet shown in the intro was probably the populated planet in the system.
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Originally posted by LtNarol
It would be very unlikely that a system would have multiple planets that could sustain human life in its open environment. The planet shown in the intro was probably the populated planet in the system.
Or it could be a deserted one, asuming that the Hades dropped all those bodies...
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I've wondered why that planet in the intro movie went from lush to barren, but the most probable reason is that destroed ships crashed there. There is the wrecked Hades, but the surface of the planet looks like it had seen a rain of debris for several decades following the battle. However, since there are already a large number of discrepencies in that intro, it can be fairly safely disregarded.
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There's at least 15 Terran Destroyers, and 3 Vasudan Destroyers mentioned in the game according to http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/notes/fs2_ship_list.html (http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/notes/fs2_ship_list.html).
I'm not sure how many destroyers would be available per fleet, but I agree with other estimates that there would probably be 3-4 Corvettes per destroyer, and in addition to that some Fenris and Leviathan on maybe a 2 to 1 ratio with the Corvettes. Remembe that the Deimos is supposed to replace the Fenris and Leviathan Classes, therefore its safe to assume that the Deimos will eventually be on a 1:1 ratio with the Cruisers and in time overtake tem as the Cruisers are destoyed or phased out.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
.... Remembe that the Deimos is supposed to replace the Fenris and Leviathan Classes, therefore its safe to assume that the Deimos will eventually be on a 1:1 ratio with the Cruisers and in time overtake tem as the Cruisers are destoyed or phased out.
Yes, but have a look at the sizes, time and money. There were older cruisers(the Fenris, and the Lev), which were ALREADY CONSTRUCTED. And here is the Deimos corvette, which are TO BE CONSTRUCTED.
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Yeah but also remember that the Cruisers are refitted Great War relics really. How many Cruisers were built after the Great War? And how many survived the Great War in the first place?? And if you look at the number of ships which actually appear in the game, then the Deimos is almost on par with the Fenris and Leviathan. It's certainly not a 3:1 ratio by any means.
I know the Deimos is much larger, more expensive and so forth, but if its more cost effective than the older Cruisers, I can see it replacing it very easily. The Fenris particularly is very outdated. The Leviathan I can see having some longevity as the current beam armament makes it an excellent escort.
Who knows, maybe the GTVA will rethink its policies and simply make the Corvette class a new part of the fleet, while retaining the Cruiser class in probably a new ship.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
And how many survived the Great War in the first place??
All these questions and more will be answered in AHTW... (www.freewebs.com/all_hands_to_war)
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Yeah but also remember that the Cruisers are refitted Great War relics really. How many Cruisers were built after the Great....
...... while retaining the Cruiser class in probably a new ship.
Well they obviously want to keep the cruiser class around, or they wouldn't have issued the Aelous. :nod:
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Well they obviously want to keep the cruiser class around, or they wouldn't have issued the Aelous
All 24 of them?
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I believe that ideally GTVA fleets consist of 1 destroyer, 3-4 'vetts, 6-7 cruisers. These fleets are designed to cover a wide are of opperations flexible enough support each other based on developing circumstances.
Of course demand from various sectors, shortages, and malfunctions cause variation between the fleets. For the NTF the problems are compounded to the extent that they have no standard fleet structure.
FS Universal Refrence Project (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fsurp/) has a good fleet list.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Well they obviously want to keep the cruiser class around, or they wouldn't have issued the Aelous
All 24 of them?
Small number or not, issuing a new line of cruisers would hint that the GTVA still *wants* cruisers in their fleets.
Tea: I think your fleets are a bit small. Destroyers are big, yes, but looking at how many were destroyed in FS2 and how many were seemingly in the 3rd fleet (Based only in Capella), I'd say they at least have 3 - 4 destroyers per fleet with one being the flagship. Corvette and Cruiser estimates seem low as well.
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Well, let's see... Sandwich has a ship reference list on his site...
Here, look: All ships referenced to in game
http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/notes/fs2_ship_list.html
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If you calculate fleet population based on the information on Epsilon Pegasi you get about 106,000. Assuming the average crew number is 6000, the number of ships in a fleet is 17-18.
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Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
.....and simply make the Corvette class a new part of the fleet, while retaining the Cruiser class in probably a new ship.
This can be read in the techroom about the Deimos. Something like this:
The GTCv Deimos is the newest additions to the Terran fleet .... blah blah blah .....are the products of a new era of ship design ... blah blah blah ...As the Leviathan and Fenris cruisers of the Great War are gradually phased out, these corvettes will become the foundation of tomorrow's fleet.
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Whoa:wtf: those estimates are freaking low!!!
Remember that the GTVA has control over several dozen systems, and therefore has the resources of all those planets! I think you are all underestimating the GTVA's industrial capacity.
For example, the Laramis system was discovered mid-way during the Great War in 2335 and in just a few years a private company (RNI) manages to build a new shipyard capable of constructing new ships (Aeolus).
I would think that a typical GTVA fleet would have 3 destroyers, 12 corvettes, and 25 cruisers, plus a squadron of AWACS ships. That would make 40 ships per fleet, and with 25 fleets, it would equal to 1000 vessels. The Royal Navy has about 100 ships that have all been built in the last 50 years, and Britan's resources are a grain of sand compared to those available to the GTVA. I don't think that 80 destroyers is that farfeched.
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plus seperate Merchant Navy and some Medical ships 'course.
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Anylarge their fleets were, they SCARED from the Sathanas. If the GTVA had about 3 destroyers and 12 corvettes in ONE fleet, the Sathanas would only be a breakfast. :)
But if there fleet is on low .... they need good pilots.
Let's clone Alpha 1! :D
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Anylarge their fleets were, they SCARED from the Sathanas. If the GTVA had about 3 destroyers and 12 corvettes in ONE fleet, the Sathanas would only be a breakfast.
I agree but consider this: the shivans will not only have an equal response to a fleet of the GTVA that large but it would probabli ram it into the ground remember that the first shivan juggernaut smashed through several GTVA fleets wich were suposed to stop it before they managed to get the Colosus on post ready to intercept it!
My fleets are much more cheaper and more versatile than that..!
The whole pourpose of these Friggates is to provide a suficient amount of firepower so that the GTVF(GTVA in my campaign story) would not have to comission so many corvettes to do the same job...!(costs costs costs:rolleyes: )
Therefore a friggate is as folows..:
-1,3 to 1,6 km long
-it has 3 or more beam cannons
-a small fighter bay consisting of some 50 ships!
-a top speed and manuverability that is almost equal to that of a corvette
-thanks to the new antimatter reactors a power/ton ratio of almost 1,7/1
-this alows it to have a top speed of some 45m/s and a excelent allround armor so that it can take hit after hit..!
-these things are ment to do the same job as 4 maibe more corvettes....!:D :ha:
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
.....remember that the first shivan juggernaut smashed through several GTVA fleets wich were suposed to stop it before they managed to get the Colosus on post ready to intercept it!
Yes, that was written in the command briefing. Everyone can write a sentence like this, he only needs a keyboard and a Command briefing window. In-game a Sathanas is VERY vulnerable if ships attack from the back, where it has only 1 LRed, which can be disabled.
The Colossus has turrets of all types everywhere. So do not base this on what [V] has written down in the command briefing.
I just want to say that is all you need to destroy a SJ is a ship with beam cannons(Even a leviathan or a Deimos), two, or more fighters to disable the LRed, quite much time :), and luck that the SJ won't turn its nose at you.
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1) If [v] said it, then it's canon. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. If we can't agree on that, then there are no facts to base this argument on. Not counting that we're talking about a computer game.
2) It's already proven in Bearbaiting, that the Sathanas can take down a Hecate class destroyer in a single blow (phoenicia). While even the firepower of Five Orion Class Destroyers Combined takes 10 minutes to destroy a Sathanas.
3) Again, in Bearbaiting, the Sathanas wasn't alone. It was closely followed by a Demon class Destroyer. Now we know that there have been attempts to attack the Sathanas already. So probably the Sathanas had more escort vessels. Now if I had to choose sides between a Sathanas and three Shivan destroyers (random semi-logical number) and a fleet of three hecates and 12 corvettes, I'd take the Shivans side.
Not to mention how hard it is to mass an entire fleet to one location (and I mean one location, not one system). That hasn't been done once in the FS2 main campaign.
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and that was just 1 Sathanas of course. Imagine if the Sathanas fleet had gone straight to Beta Aquaile (I'm guessing I spelt that wrong) instead of the Capella sun.
Then the GTVA would have be in trouble.
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Beta Aquilae. :)
But the Sathanas fleet hasn't went further than Capella. It's canon.
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Hey Has Anyone done a complete assesment of the total GTVA Navy compliment of ships without fighters or bombers? if not than the entire FSUniverse is comprised of plp that are doing campaigns and if they are linked than you would have an Idea of what was built ......Just my 2 cents without reading the entire post.....8D
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Therefore a friggate is as folows..:
-1,3 to 1,6 km long
-it has 3 or more beam cannons
-a small fighter bay consisting of some 50 ships!
-a top speed and manuverability that is almost equal to that of a corvette
-thanks to the new antimatter reactors a power/ton ratio of almost 1,7/1
-this alows it to have a top speed of some 45m/s and a excelent allround armor so that it can take hit after hit..!
-these things are ment to do the same job as 4 maibe more corvettes....!
This is supposed to be a joke right? Multiple beam weapons. Fighter bay. Nearly the speed of a Ursa heavy bomber? Great armour?
I liked what they did in Derelict with the Saphah Frigate. A ship the size of a corvette with guns more like a Destroyer seems a good idea for a frigate.
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Yo people look there is a huge gap ion the GTVA ship[ inventory...
They have no ship between corvettes and destroyers......this is a weaknes trhat the shivans exploited with they corvettes with fighter wings on board..
And the beam weapons arent standard beam weapons they are smaller yet more powerfull then eny corvette could posibly have...
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Alpha, this thread is ****ing dead. What is it with you people and old-thread bumping?
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Well **k me then if people cant expres theyr opinion about FS&FS2 on these forums then where the **** should they...!
The game is already dead is at the majority of gamers because it required you to think before you act...atleast lets us keep it alive !
And this is the last post il do on this thread..:mad: :hopping: :mad2:
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Originally posted by AlphaOne
Well **k me then if people cant expres theyr opinion about FS&FS2 on these forums then where the **** should they...!
The game is already dead is at the majority of gamers because it required you to think before you act...atleast lets us keep it alive !
And this is the last post il do on this thread..:mad: :hopping: :mad2:
Other than the no longer posting in old threads, what is this post actually supposed to say? Can anyone decypher it? If it is saying that freespace is dead because freespace "required you to think before you act" I can't see that being a negative, though I can't really agree with it. As for your ship idea AlphaOne, that's nice, but we already have enough terran super-ships. You're not the first person to suggest something like that by far but most of us find little use for these ships. Come up with something balanced between corvettes and destroyers and you have a winner. But the truth of the matter is, with neither class specifically defined, you can't really judge where the gap falls..