Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: TopAce on August 28, 2003, 08:33:18 am
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I already suggested the SCP team to do some updates on the Ai, but thread has sunk down so quickly. I have summerized what updates may be done on the Artifical Intelligence:
- More often afterburner use: While doing waypoints, and to catch up with the player.
- Ship-specific 'ignore' order. If the player gives order to Alpha 2 to ignore a ship, may Alpha 3 attack it. Otherwise use the SHIFT-I, or C-3-6 for general ignore order.
- More effective self-defense: May the Ai defend himself more often, the current Ai begins defending himslef after severly damaged, and that is quite often too late
- Shield recharging. Evident. The current FS_open version I have simply recharges the fighter shields quickly some seconds after it hasn't inflicted damage.
- May the Ai be unable to target stealth fighters with Aspect-seeking missiles
- Dumpfire missile usage(see Diamondgeezer's thread)
- More lock time with aspect-seking missiles. The Ai can immediatly target the player with aspect-seeking missiles.
- Better tactical weapon usage: May not the Ai attack a large ship with the Lamprey or Circe.
- More often reload request: The bomber Ai flies much without reloading its bombs for minutes, despite the Support ship is idle.
Probably that is all I have in my mind. Apparently, these are only for the fighter Ai.
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*I want the AI to be able to cope with limited afterburner fuel. Right now, they fly on burners 99% of the time until the fuel is depleted.
*The AI pilots shouldn't crash into stuff all the time like retards.
*When attacking a slow or stationary ship, the fighters mostly sit just there and fire on the target. Instead, they should do strafing runs and move while engaging the ship.
*The ship should start evasive manevers when hit(the higher the AI, the faster they react)
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-More effective self-defense: May the Ai defend himself more often, the current Ai begins defending himslef after severly damaged, and that is quite often too late
*The ship should start evasive manevers when hit(the higher the AI, the faster they react)
To some extent, these are actually already there for the mission designer to alter:
It's the goal priority that determines how much it takes for an AI ship to break off from it's current mission and go after an attacker, so a ship ordered to attack a cruiser with priority 89 will likely never defend itself but just keeps mindlessly attacking the cruiser, but if it had priority 20, it would start evading and dogfighting after taking only a few hits.
The real problem is the AI never feels truely threatened until it's shields drop regardless of it's goal priority. I think all it would take to fix this is making the AI count hits on it's shield as just as important as hits on it's hull, since once it does start evading it's actually pretty good at it.
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Excuse me, Exarch, but as of my experience, goal priority is only to queue up Ai orders. The highest priority on the Ai's order list will be followed.
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It does that, too, yeah. Thats the thing though, the attacker needs to supercede the current goal's priority for him to become the new goal, so a low priority will result in the AI breaking off earlier. It's most easily seen in effect on escort missions - bombers with a very high goal priority will be very single minded and all but ignore the player as they make their attack run, whereas ones with a low priority will break off and start evading as soon as you hit them a few times.
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Can we get some more effective AI when guarding a ship as well? Often if you say - have a Lilith attacking a convoy - the convoy escorts will attack the Lilith but not in any specific place - leaving it to the player to take out the far more powerful beam cannons before they shred the convoy. Any decent pilot would prioritise against weapons when guarding a convoy rather than just trying to take the ship out.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
Can we get some more effective AI when guarding a ship as well? Often if you say - have a Lilith attacking a convoy - the convoy escorts will attack the Lilith but not in any specific place - leaving it to the player to take out the far more powerful beam cannons before they shred the convoy. Any decent pilot would prioritise against weapons when guarding a convoy rather than just trying to take the ship out.
when
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distance
--
--
2000
add-goal
Alpha
ai-destroy-subsystem
Lilith
turret02(or whatever the LRed is)
89
send-message
Alpha 1
High
Stupid idiot Ai! Attack that damned LRED! it is going to slash our convoy in half! :D
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*laughs* If you think I'm going to code that into every mission I ever play just for realisms sake - you've got another thing coming ;)
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At least you would have one more event in your mission. :lol:
I have always been refused here when I suggested to implement a thing to fs_open which can be done with SEXPs, like entering hangar, etc.
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Alow me to be a critic here. The AI in FS2 is great but it lacks some of the more human tatics ie rolling sideways, and the cooler things, they should now and then hotdog with the fighters in the lower AI classes like they make a kill then they fly through the booming explotion of the fighter/bomber they kill, and role on turning.
Now heres the stuff I think is not needed. We don't need to fix any instent lockon with the AI. What ever is worng with your copy I don't know, I would suggest you reinstal the hole game patch it up to full, then use the FS2_Open stuff. The AI uses thedumbfire missiles just fine, and they use the guns right all the time on my copy of the game. Last but not least the AI shooting a stealth ship with a missile, thats only for the heatseeking missiles, you can do it too if your aim is true and your cloce to your target like within a good 15 meaters of it. They arnt called fire and forget for nothing you know.:rolleyes:
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okay if you want realism join to your countrys air force that is only realism i know because i was long ago pilot in japanese military
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
okay if you want realism join to your countrys air force that is only realism i know because i am pilot in japanese military
Funny, I thought you worked for Sony. :rolleyes:
Just so the post isn't entirely sarcasm/alcohol fire some new AI moves when you're chasing them would be cool. Curently, tjhey only try to loop away from you. A simple dodge left or right, possibly some sort of weave, or a barrel roll would add to the variation enough so that you wouldn;t be able to pick where every ship was goingto go about 75% of the time.
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The AI in FS2 is not great. It's ****ING DUMB. Seriously, that should be one of the most improved parts, because it is so ****ing retarded right now. For instance, if I'm chasing an AI fighter down, and got another on my tail, I'll kill the enemy I'm chasing first, and THEN evade from the fighter on my tail. This is because the Ai cannot follow violent manuevers, nor can it hit it's target with any accuracy and do it repetdly.
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Originally posted by StarGunner
The AI in FS2 is great ...
:lol:
Even the ancient WC4 AI performed better in dogfights, and the ships didn't crash into stuff like crazy.
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The ships definately need to break off earlier when doing an attack run, maybe a system similar to Homeworld, with 'pull out' distances for targets?
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
okay if you want realism join to your countrys air force that is only realism i know because i am pilot in japanese military
Japan has a military? :D
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I liked the idea up there of strafing runs. I'm a WWII aircombat fan (Il-2FB, Aces, etc.) and I always thought it a bit silly for a fully functioning capital ship to be treated with the same respect as I treat a hostile cargo container. Fighters and bombers should make attack runs, breaking off and flying quickly to a short distance away followed by another run. Would LOOK much better in the first place as well as help both you and the enemy AI pilots survive attacks against big well defended ships better.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Funny, I thought you worked for Sony. :rolleyes:
Just so the post isn't entirely sarcasm/alcohol fire some new AI moves when you're chasing them would be cool. Curently, tjhey only try to loop away from you. A simple dodge left or right, possibly some sort of weave, or a barrel roll would add to the variation enough so that you wouldn;t be able to pick where every ship was goingto go about 75% of the time.
i was pilot not anymore
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"looks at posters' avatars"
"notices there's no answer from any SCP guy"
yup, thought so.
why do you people still bother making requests, that's beyond me :doubt:
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather see another Linux > FS port thread, or a Starfield tweak so it doesn't look like it's soo starry or shadows on ships that'll never pay attention to! ;)
:p:p:p
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You want... less stars? You're crazy. CRAZY! Get to the crazy house, crazy man!
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there would be one problem with uogreaded AI - if all the Shivans became smarter they would kill you! The odds are allways well against you, and thier stupidity is what allows you to take 90% of them down, while the retard from your wing take out (hopefully) the other 10%.
All mission would have to be re-done. the easiest way I can think of to do it is to either reduce the number of enemy waves, or to reduce their AI level even further....:D
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But the game uses the same AI engine for your wingmen as it does for the Shivans, if you increase fighter AI, you do so for both sides, same with Capship AI. What is really needed is more 'awareness' of the capabilities of weapons, and where they are on ships, particuarly capships and their turrets.
Some more specific weapons tags might help 'Point Defence', 'Anti-Bomb', 'Main Gun' are three that spring to mind, I'm not certain how the AI works, so these may be implemented, but point defence means this gun prefers fighter class vessels, regardless of the main gun's priorities, Anti-Bomb means this weapon will prioritise incoming bombs (not bombers) as soon as they are detected (would make life very difficult for bombers), and 'Main Gun' means these are the ships primary weapons, different from Big Ship as in the ship attempts to rotate itself so it's main guns are firing at the nearest (or most threatening?) enemy capship.
Once again, considering the amount of work required particuarly to get the third one working without the capship spinning like a top, I suspect these make a nice wish list ;)
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by TrashMan
there would be one problem with uogreaded AI - if all the Shivans became smarter they would kill you! The odds are allways well against you, and thier stupidity is what allows you to take 90% of them down, while the retard from your wing take out (hopefully) the other 10%.
All mission would have to be re-done. the easiest way I can think of to do it is to either reduce the number of enemy waves, or to reduce their AI level even further....:D
I don't want the Ai be more dangerous, I want the Ai to be more clever, or cleverer. whichever you prefer:)
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Originally posted by TopAce
I don't want the Ai be more dangerous, I want the Ai to be more clever, or cleverer. whichever you prefer:)
Yeah and you want water to be more drinkable but less wet too I suppose? :)
Are we really going to do the whole upgrading the AI makes old missions unplayable arguement AGAIN? :rolleyes:
Look at the previous thread. We had the argument and decided to put all the ai enhancements in a table so that it wouldn't break older missions. Lets stick to that an not open this can of worms again.
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Originally posted by redmenace
Japan has a military? :D
AFAIK, a 'Defence force'. They're not allowed to deploy in warzones (they used to not be allowed to deploy abroad atall - i.e. invade - but that was amended to send peace-keeping troops) Bear in mind Japan is close to both China and N.Korea, so they're not exactly free from possible enemies.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Yeah and you want water to be more drinkable but less wet too I suppose? :)
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What's your point, kara?
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If you make the AI smarter you'll automatically make them more dangerous cause they'll be shooting you instead of crashing into things etc.
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As I experienced, the Ai has better navigation while they are attacking than moving to defend a further ship, or following a ship. So this one won't make the game MUCH more difficult.
It would give new colors for long-bored missions which are too easy.