Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: FoxHound on September 01, 2003, 06:11:43 pm
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I just had some newbie questions about the vasudans, I was wondering if someone could answer then
#1, are the vasudans the surviving ancients? I mean, it seems as if vasuda prime was the sole planet that ancient survivors fled too and escaped the shivans & the lucifer
#2 what are headz? I mean, i've seen the video, but whhhyyy?
#3 whats all this about vasudans and fish? I mean, help me?
#4 do vasudans have just one sex? do they lay eggs?
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#3 was that stupid cheat in the mainhall that made little fish swim accross the screen...
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damn, never heard of that cheat before, i'll have to find a way to try it out (anyone got a mod that puts you in the vasudan main hall without having to go through the freespace 2 campaign again? (not that I don't like freespace 2, just that it was only a couple of weeks ago that I went through the main campaign))
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"#1, are the vasudans the surviving ancients? I mean, it seems as if vasuda prime was the sole planet that ancient survivors fled too and escaped the shivans & the lucifer"
They might be descended from the Ancients, my memory of the connection is foggy
#2 what are headz? I mean, i've seen the video, but whhhyyy?
God knows why they did the headz-in-the-box thing.
#3 whats all this about vasudans and fish? I mean, help me?
Type in vasudanswuvfishes in the barracks from the Psamtik main hall and fish swim across the screen.
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Vasudans cant be decendants of the Ancients because the Ancients spoke English*
* See FS1 Ancients Videos
If the Ancients did speak some other language V could have made a gargled noise translotor type device like they did with the vasudans but i guess not....
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...
:wtf:
The ancients are dead. V used a human's voice because it added to the drama...
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ya i know... and the ancients died out cause they were all females too :D
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No, they are NOT all women, they probably could not speak our language even if they learned how to (the same reason why chimps or Vasudans cannot--their vocal apparati are not suited to the task), and they died because the Shivans killed them all.
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I think the Ancients may have manipulated or influenced Vasudan development...thus the legends regarding a great enemy and a devastating war that would end all.
Not that its impossible to come up with that yourself...but this seems pretty rooted in Vasudan history/mythology.
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#4
Hm... Uh... Well...
Carl could tell you about Shivans...
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Wasn't the headz thing because the vasudanswuvfishes cheat also put human heads in the big tanks in the background as well as made the fishes or something?
Flipside :D
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I have but two questions:
How did the Shivans know where the Vasudan homeworld was?
Why was Vasuda Prime such a desolate world?
*waits for someone to catch on*
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The Shivans determined the location of Vasuda Prime and Sol because they were the most heavily guarded planets. It was desolate, because it was. The vasudans adapted to it. Its like asking, why is earth 70% water. Because it is.
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1/Possibly the HOL. As they worsipped the Shivans they would not really have bothered to prevent them from tapping into communications that would probably contain coordinates to the Vasudan homeworld.
2/ Because it`s got a hotter sun? Because it is a desert planet? there are many reasons why.
Although all points are valid.... we will never know.
(plays sad violin).:nod:
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Urgh.
Vasudans = Ancients.
The Shivans went straight for Vasuda Prime because they knew exactly where it was because they'd annihilated it before. And we know the Lucifer's beams screwed the ecosystem because they did it the second time 'round too.
As I recall, the first ever thing to be attacked in a mission is a Vasudan freighter.
And why would the Shivans attack the Vasudans/Ancients? Well maybe because they were stomping across the galaxy and wiping out everything in their path till the Shivans stopped them.
I'm not too up on FS1 history, but I'm reasonably sure that the Terrans only started getting completely boned by the Shivans after they declared a truce with the Vasudans.
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Originally posted by Clone
Urgh.
Vasudans = Ancients.
The Shivans went straight for Vasuda Prime because they knew exactly where it was because they'd annihilated it before. And we know the Lucifer's beams screwed the ecosystem because they did it the second time 'round too.
As I recall, the first ever thing to be attacked in a mission is a Vasudan freighter.
And why would the Shivans attack the Vasudans/Ancients? Well maybe because they were stomping across the galaxy and wiping out everything in their path till the Shivans stopped them.
I'm not too up on FS1 history, but I'm reasonably sure that the Terrans only started getting completely boned by the Shivans after they declared a truce with the Vasudans.
ergh.. no... think about it.., anyone remember Ross128? (the star system people) it was wiped of all Trace of life... somehow i don't think the shivans are sloppy as to leave a few survivors... and besides.. there is something about the vasudans being technologically on par with the terrans....
have you seen an ancient? neither have i but that's not the point.. the point is the the ancients and the vasudans are two separate races, not the one that has been blasted back to the stone-age by a xenocidal superace (shivans)
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Originally posted by Clone
Urgh.
Vasudans = Ancients.
NO.
The records found on altair were neither terran, nor vasudan, but their creators were annhialated by the shivans long long ago.
The Shivans went straight for Vasuda Prime because they knew exactly where it was because they'd annihilated it before. And we know the Lucifer's beams screwed the ecosystem because they did it the second time 'round too.
They didn't know where it was. If they had it wouldn't have taken several months for a 100% indestructable ship to find a planet it had been to before.
As I recall, the first ever thing to be attacked in a mission is a Vasudan freighter.
So? What does that have to do with anything? And plus, it was a cuiser IN MISSION, but the shivans had been kiling them before that MISSION in FS1.
And why would the Shivans attack the Vasudans/Ancients? Well maybe because they were stomping across the galaxy and wiping out everything in their path till the Shivans stopped them.
The Shivans destroy EVERYTHING. They do not go after a single species, they kill anything in their path.
I'm not too up on FS1 history, but I'm reasonably sure that the Terrans only started getting completely boned by the Shivans after they declared a truce with the Vasudans.
I AM up on my FS1 history, and the Terrans were just as screwed before they signed the peace treaty as they were after it.
Get over it. The Vasudans are NOT the Ancients. :hopping:
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ok, guys, calm the **** down
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-Post Removed by the RIAA; yes, we're after you too.-
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So despite the fact that no-one has ever seen an Ancient, you're dismissing my ideas on the grounds of your own assumptions.
Nice. Real nice.
They didn't know where it was. If they had it wouldn't have taken several months for a 100% indestructable ship to find a planet it had been to before.
Yeah, they could've just drifted through all those inhabitted Terran and Vasudan systems without anyone trying to stop them. Oh, no sorry, wait, they couldn't. If that was the case then FS1 would've consisted of freighter escort missions.
So? What does that have to do with anything? And plus, it was a cuiser IN MISSION, but the shivans had been kiling them before that MISSION in FS1.
And you don't think there may have been some reason why the Volition crew made the first thing actually attacked in the game Vasudan? The rest of FS has a very structured, flowing story. You don't they maybe, just maybe, extended that zest for story-telling to the first mission by putting subtle but significant events in it?
The Shivans destroy EVERYTHING. They do not go after a single species, they kill anything in their path.
Yes, and what was in their path? Oh the Vasudans and their new Terran allies.
ergh.. no... think about it.., anyone remember Ross128? (the star system people) it was wiped of all Trace of life... somehow i don't think the shivans are sloppy as to leave a few survivors... and besides.. there is something about the vasudans being technologically on par with the terrans....
You don't think having your entire civilization blasted to crap might have set the Ancients back a bit technology-wise?
have you seen an ancient?
Have you?
the point is the the ancients and the vasudans are two separate races, not the one that has been blasted back to the stone-age by a xenocidal superace
And you're basing this on......?
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I think the ancients are really just a shivan faction that is trying to lure the GTVA into a trap in order for them to reopen the sol node and finally blow up the sun with a Juggernaught fleet.
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Lol, I think this arguement might be a little more heated than it ought to be. It seems to me that Shivans annihilated Terrans and Vasudans without bias from the opening animation of Freespace onwards, but that's just me.
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Hey, chill out. This is a discussion, not a war. :)
There's no doubt in my mind that the Vasudans were influenced by the Ancients somehow, long, long ago. Evidence includes the Prophecy, that there will come an all-powerful race that will annihilate all life. The Ancients must have seeded in the Vasudan consicousness long ago the idea of the Destroyers, but the Prophecy has been reinterpreted so many times over thousands of years that it's become nothing but myth.
The best parallel I can draw is the Flood, spoken of in holy texts all over the world. There must have been something like this a long, long time ago, since all these cultures (who didn't have any contact with each other) came up with roughly the same story at the same time.
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nobody has really answered my questions #2 and #4, please, dont just concentrate on #1 :)
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Facts supported by fiction in the game.
Vasudans are not ancients. There was attempts and subtle hints made at a connection between the two races, likely leading to the prophesy that spurred the HoL to go on its rampage and to give both species a hint about the coming destruction.
Ancients were as technologically evolved as the Terrans and Vasudans were when they were attacked by the Shivans with one critical difference. They were masters of subspace technology, by fluke, circumstance, or otherwise. This comes from the horses mouth...when asked about the Ancients, several people at Volition reported to us that Ancients were not any better than the GTA or the PVE.
The first attack that we know about from the Shivans was in Ross128 at GTI Rivera. The installation was destroyed by the Shivans and several scout wings engaged both Vasudan and Terran forces destroying them completely except for the ill fated pilot who made it back to Rivera.
Shivans took several weeks or months to find Vasuda Prime before they finally surrounded and destroyed the planet. There is little likely to support a previous attack 8000 years ago. The planet was always arid and inhospitable. The Vasudans evolved spaceflight probably out of a need to support their lack of resources. Its unlikely that the Shivans just zeroed in on it. Follow the rough order of events in FS2...Ross 128, Antares, Ikeya, Ribos, Vega, Deneb, Vasuda Prime, and so on. Thats definately not homing straight in but systematically wreaking havoc on many fronts at the same time.
According to everything we know from the Ancients narratives, their race was completely destroyed (although thats not something we can trust completely - we can assume that the story writers intentions were that the race was gone, finished, done for). There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the Ancients were Vasudans...a linkage is there in mythology, but it seems like the Vasudans were perhaps treated like children and ignored by the Shivans during their rampage the 8000 years before - no subspace, no threat.
The linkage between the first ever ship attacked in a mission bears no consequence. The first ever installation attacked was Terran...the first ever fighter to be attacked goes to a tie (the pilot reporting that "they slaughtered everyone" and refered to the Vasudans being destroyed too). The equal destruction is well noted in the storyline...neither side was spared any courtesy in any way regardless of what the mission tells us. The Aten destroyed by the first Shivan attack was more likely a story effort to show the player that Vasudans were also under attack, leaving no doubt that the Shivans were only after Terrans.
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Originally posted by FoxHound
nobody has really answered my questions #2 and #4, please, dont just concentrate on #1 :)
2: It's just a sick Volition joke.
4: They have a very active and fulfilling sex-life including, but not limited to: Whips, Blindfolds, Role-playing and Tantra. Wether they lays eggs is anybodies guess.
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Y'know, we could just hunt down a Volition guy and ask him what the general opinion was in the office at the time FS was made.
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I'm not too up on FS1 history, but I'm reasonably sure that the Terrans only started getting completely boned by the Shivans after they declared a truce with the Vasudans.
Ok, if you aren't familiar with the FS1 story than you shouldn't try to argue until you know what the hell your talking about. Oh, and the whole reason the GTA made a truce with the Vasudans was because both races were being raped by the Shivans.
'Nuff said.
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4: They have a very active and fulfilling sex-life including, but not limited to: Whips, Blindfolds, Role-playing and Tantra. Wether they lays eggs is anybodies guess.
you still didn't answer if they just have one sex... though I guess you're asuming there is only one? :wtf:
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Originally posted by FoxHound
you still didn't answer if they just have one sex... though I guess you're asuming there is only one? :wtf:
There's not a whole lot of information regarding that in the game, but if the most interesting thing about the species is their complicated language (which is what the Vasudan species info goes into in detail), then I assume they reproduce in a fashion at least somewhat similar to humans.
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Originally posted by lobsterclaw
Ok, if you aren't familiar with the FS1 story than you shouldn't try to argue until you know what the hell your talking about. Oh, and the whole reason the GTA made a truce with the Vasudans was because both races were being raped by the Shivans.
'Nuff said.
I see you have a mastery of the finer aspects of the English language.
Sarcasm, for example.
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Originally posted by Turnsky
ergh.. no... think about it.., anyone remember Ross128? (the star system people) it was wiped of all Trace of life... somehow i don't think the shivans are sloppy as to leave a few survivors... and besides.. there is something about the vasudans being technologically on par with the terrans....
Ross 128 was not wiped lean of life
in ST you find that other GTI station in ross 128
They destroyed only the station and the ships around it.
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Originally posted by FoxHound
you still didn't answer if they just have one sex... though I guess you're asuming there is only one? :wtf:
They have 2 sexes, listen to the voice files from fs2 - a female translator voice wouldn't be put in for teh fun of it. :D
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Originally posted by lobsterclaw
Ok, if you aren't familiar with the FS1 story than you shouldn't try to argue until you know what the hell your talking about. Oh, and the whole reason the GTA made a truce with the Vasudans was because both races were being raped by the Shivans.
'Nuff said.
Exactly.
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:lol:
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Originally posted by Clone
4: They have a very active and fulfilling sex-life including, but not limited to: Whips, Blindfolds, Role-playing and Tantra. Wether they lays eggs is anybodies guess.
I bet Vasudans are pretty much the only ones strong and agile enough to perform Tantra without sustaining broken bones.:lol:
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Ooh!!!
Riccardo Zapino knows about #4!!!
I know Narol knows what Im talking about...
For you lazy or new people who don't remember...
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,15486.0.html
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If you really want an honest to god opinion about no 4., i'd say they mate like fish. Female lays eggs, male seeds them, then small vasudans come out of the shells.
Why? Because we all know the wuv 'em.
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Originally posted by Stunaep
If you really want an honest to god opinion about no 4., i'd say they mate like fish. Female lays eggs, male seeds them, then small vasudans come out of the shells.
Why? Because we all know the wuv 'em.
:lol:
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Maybe the Vasudans + Ancients thing is just looking much too far into it, all the prophecy stuff is just to give some meaning to the violence innit.
I bet [V] never actually thought of all that.
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wasn't the arrival of the Shivans the reason for the Terran/Vasudan armistace ?
Um, I mean the best when I say this, but some of you guys get too wound up in little details you know. Just chill-out and accept some the things are just the way they are.
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Yes, but where's the fun in that?
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Originally posted by Stunaep
Yes, but where's the fun in that?
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Maybe the fishes take a more 'active' role in Vasudan breeding rituals than we think ;)
Flipside :)
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The Ancients are dead. Completely and totally dead, so far as we know, judging from the FS1 Monolouges. They all retreated back to their main homeworld (which was like Earth in the movie, BTW), and it was completely destroyed, NOT by the Lucifer, but by some sort of oribatal bomb thingy. Look at the video, there's simply a big explosion, no beam or anything.
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Originally posted by Ferret
....
I bet [V] never actually thought of all that.
Volition never looked deeper into the universe they have gone with the story ... perhaps FS3 would have revealed more info, but it is of the past.
The forth question was one I had in my mind, but I daren't ask it here. I know why this is: [V] didn't have a Vasudan female in their mind. As simple as oneplusone. :D
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
The Ancients are dead..... Look at the video, there's simply a big explosion, no beam or anything.
Hypersuper Shivan Atomic bomb? :D
I thought that is only a sun rising up... :cool:
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But they have a female Vasudan voice. I don't see your logic.
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You don't see my logic, because I didn't know that [V] has done a female Vasudan voice :D
OK, Volition had this in mind, but they haven't implemented it, or implemented it, but it was not noticed.
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Listen to the Vasudan voices in game. There's a male one and a female one. Well, two pilots anyway, there's a male Vasudan voice for Vasudan command as well :nod:
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Originally posted by Hippo
#4
Hm... Uh... Well...
Carl could tell you about Shivans...
where's carl anyway?
here boy!
come on then!
*makes noise with lunchpack*
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Originally posted by magatsu1
Um, I mean the best when I say this, but some of you guys get too wound up in little details you know. Just chill-out and accept some the things are just the way they are.
Quite often the details can be very important to the campaign setting.
The Mercury Affair for instance involves several missions based on where command is and how they pass their orders on to other ships. When someone asks a question about that (as someone did recently) I stated my theory cause in my campaign that is how the things work.
If I don't and a different theory becomes the accepted fact then I'm going to get lots of complaints that Command doesn't work that way.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Quite often the details can be very important to the campaign setting.
The Mercury Affair for instance involves several missions based on where command is and how they pass their orders on to other ships. When someone asks a question about that (as someone did recently) I stated my theory cause in my campaign that is how the things work.
If I don't and a different theory becomes the accepted fact then I'm going to get lots of complaints that Command doesn't work that way.
Quite so.
People will go to great lengths to protect their ideas.
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Yes, I throw half-bricks at people who disagree with mine :nod:
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Originally posted by karajorma
The Mercury Affair for instance involves several missions based on where command is and how they pass their orders on to other ships. When someone asks a question about that (as someone did recently) I stated my theory cause in my campaign that is how the things work.
Command is an omnipresent but rather uninformed black guy, who simultaneously sits in a fighter deck on the Aquitane as well as being in every system that Alpha 1 happens to wander into. He retains command over all GTVA vessles. He can communicate instantly across great distances, but the bad guys can never intercept his communications. And if the Aquitane is destroyed in a mission, although he was physically sitting on board, command will still notify you of your mission failure. Any further information on the way command communicates with the fleet or with alpha one is noncanon :p
By the same token, any explanation of how command works other than the aforementioned statement is a welcome addition to the FS community general knowledge.
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Command probably isn't on board the Aquitaine. I went over that on the other thread I mentioned :)
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How did the Shivans know where the Vasudan homeworld was?
Maybe the Hammer of Light told them.
Or perhaps debris recovered from destroyed Vasudan vessels was analysed and computer cores were taken. Who knows. Maybe they just hopped around until they found blew up the right one.
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Easy. The shivans moniter subspace no prob, so I assume they mearly followed the increase of subspace traffic as they got into the general area.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Command probably isn't on board the Aquitaine. I went over that on the other thread I mentioned :)
Then who are you clicking on when you go into the options screen? :p
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Originally posted by StratComm
Then who are you clicking on when you go into the options screen? :p
His twin brother Jeb :D
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If you're gonna use the argument that the Shivans knew where the Vasudan homeworld was, because they destroyed it a first time because they were the original Ancients, then how did the Shivans know where the Terran homeworld was? They went right for it.
And that raises another question. What made the Terrans so important that they had to drive straight thru every system to get to Sol. After all, it seemed, to me, that Vasuda Prime was just a detour along the way.
EDIT: hmmm....gives me a new storyline idea....
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If you're gonna use the argument that the Shivans knew where the Vasudan homeworld was, because they destroyed it a first time because they were the original Ancients, then how did the Shivans know where the Terran homeworld was? They went right for it.
They didn't go right for SOL, they had to examine the "Dozens of systems of the Deneb Node" but were "certianly narrowing it down"
AS for why they didn't just track the subspace activity, perhaps it was like Halo (read the books) where terrans were nder strict orders not to travel directly to SOL in case vasudans (or later Shivans) would follow them.
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The thing is, no one really knows how smart the Shivans were. For as much as we know, they are able to read terran and vasudan transmissions to discover our home systems. The shivans only intentions were to take over systems and only bombard the home planets of both races. They could have determined by the amount of traffic or whatever.
Or...they just got lucky.
But the Shivans were going from system to system trying to find which way togo, its obvious eventually they're going togo in the right direction.
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i wouldnt say "right for it." Remember the Lucifer showed up in Ross 128, 2 jumps from Sol. Why didnt they take it out then? If you look at the old jump map, they could have gone to Sol, then Deneb, then Vasuda Prime and fried the Vasudans.
My personal opinion is that the Shivans sole purpose was to unite the Vasudans and Terrans, and type of unification that the Ancients never did thus their destruction. When the Shivans returned, it was to humble the Terrans and Vasudans and remind them of their place. They also showed them not to get greedy and destroyed a star. So basically the Shivans are what the guy at the end of the FS1 campaign ending was talking about: "The Cosmic Preservers" The Shivans could have taken the Juggernaut fleet and wiped out all trace of humans and Vasudans very quickly. Regardless, they still make a good enemy :)
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Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
My personal opinion is that the Shivans sole purpose was to unite the Vasudans and Terrans, and type of unification that the Ancients never did thus their destruction.
Why A) Would the Shivans want to make the Terrans and Vasudans unite? and, B) Why would they want to make them stronger, so that they couldn't be defeated as easily as the Ancients?
When the Shivans returned, it was to humble the Terrans and Vasudans and remind them of their place. They also showed them not to get greedy and destroyed a star. So basically the Shivans are what the guy at the end of the FS1 campaign ending was talking about: "The Cosmic Preservers" The Shivans could have taken the Juggernaut fleet and wiped out all trace of humans and Vasudans very quickly. Regardless, they still make a good enemy :) [/B]
I don't think that the Shivans HAD juggernauts in FS1. Besides, it said on the box of FS2: the forces in FS1 were only scouting. Also, that last statement can be interpreted two ways: The man saying it could A) Mean that they preserved other races by accident, or B) Did it on purpose. It all depends on how you look at it.