Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Singh on September 06, 2003, 08:04:27 am

Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 06, 2003, 08:04:27 am
Hey there,
Just wanted to show my respect to all you Pro FREDers out there, since i've just started on my 3rd (WIP) mission and am finding it one hell of a tough thing to do.
Thing is, how the hell do you all FRED so well?
Any tips will be appreciated :D
(btw, i'm using the original FRED program that came with FS2. FS2 Open is just too darn big to download. :rolleyes: )
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: kasperl on September 06, 2003, 08:14:36 am
you did do the walkthrough?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Tiara on September 06, 2003, 08:19:41 am
Singh, first read the FRED walkthrough files that come with the game. After that its just fiddling around till you understand it. Though, IMO once you've read the walkthrough its quite easy to get started.
Title: Re: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 06, 2003, 08:22:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
btw, i'm using the original FRED program that came with FS2. FS2 Open is just too darn big to download.

Er, 'tis only a few meg for the EXEs, the fancy maps and stuff are optional.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 06, 2003, 08:24:12 am
I've already read through most of the walkthrough, and know what most of the SexPs are for. (ok, so i read through a little and learnt the rest the hard way :P) The only thing i have problems with are when i want to give ships advanced orders and have to substitute those affects with SexPs. Makes my missions horrendously complex and hard to keep up with.
The worst part is balancing the combat- those ******* destroyers take at least 5 kilometers as a run-up just to exit from hyperspace....not to mention my destroyers keep veering off course for some stupid reason or the other......darn...i'm ranting off again.....
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on September 06, 2003, 09:39:10 am
Singh. Don't just read the walkthrough. Actually build the mission it talks about. Reading a walkthrough often teaches you a lot less than actually doing it yourself does.

Once you've finished the walkthrough have a look through the campaigns you've played and open up their missions in FRED. You can learn a lot by looking at the way other FREDders put their missions together.

FRED itself is very helpful. Click on any SEXP in FRED and the message window at the bottom will explain exactly how the SEXP works.

As for warp out/in distances have a look here (http://pub11.ezboard.com/fjtofrm11.showMessage?topicID=37.topic)
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 07, 2003, 12:19:36 pm
I took your advice and went through the Walkthrough and let me tell you, it was helpful! I've restarted the mission and passed through most of the problems i had before with ease...until i came against new ones..

Anyone know how to switch off combat completely? I mean, stop all ships in the vicinity and make them go into 'play dead mode' and then use the other commands to move around specific ships. unfortunately, i just cant find this operator.......any help? :rolleyes:
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: SadisticSid on September 07, 2003, 12:52:56 pm
The one you're looking for is add-goal, then the goal ai-play-dead.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 07, 2003, 12:56:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by SadisticSid
The one you're looking for is add-goal, then the goal ai-play-dead.


I know of this...but somehow, I have many ships to put this to, and for some reason, if an event has more than 6 operators in it, it just doesnt work for me. :rolleyes:
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on September 07, 2003, 12:57:10 pm
You might also want to lock the turrets on any capships before you give them other orders or else they might start shooting again.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on September 07, 2003, 04:14:32 pm
how do you mean "doesn't work" ?
do the ships carry-on fighting, or does FRED crash ?
try playing around with protect/beam protect ship or ignore ship to stop combat as well.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 07, 2003, 10:26:46 pm
By not working, I mean the event is totally ignored for some reason.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: IceFire on September 08, 2003, 10:03:07 am
Just make all the ships protected and nobody will be shooting at anyone.  Except for beams...best to lock beams than to protect all from beams.

Look up the protect and protect-beam operators.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on September 08, 2003, 12:10:11 pm
what cue are you using for the event ?
(ie; "has arrived delay" or "has time elapsed")
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on September 08, 2003, 03:05:51 pm
Quote
From the FAQ
 I still can't get an event in my campaign to work

The first thing to find out is if the event is happening at all. Messages are the simplest way to do this. If the event has a message and you aren't seeing the message then it isn't being triggered for some reason. If there isn't a message add one and see if it goes off. By using this method you can trace the SEXP that isn't working.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 29, 2003, 08:40:31 am
Thanks for all the help and sorry for not replying.
If its not a bother, I'd like to just ask 1 more question. How do you get Alpha wing to jump out only at the node and nowhere else? Is there a SexP that allows such a thing or does it have to be fixed indirectly?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 29, 2003, 08:44:06 am
No matter- found answer in karajoma's FAQ. Thanks :)

Just a suggestion for the SCP guys- perhaps introduce that facility in Fred_open?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 29, 2003, 10:39:15 am
Well... perhaps a 'warp out at node' box might save a few SEXPs, but really it's more work than it's worth. I believe it is (or soon will be) possible to have a repeating SEXP fire more or less constantly during a mission, so you can check every second whether or not Alpha is in the zone and enable or diasable warpage
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Drew on September 29, 2003, 10:51:31 am
hmmm i need to start fredding again.....
where can i get the latest release?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 29, 2003, 10:58:51 am
Another slight problem. I tried to use the fix in Karajoma's FAQ, but it didn't work at all. Either the Warp never works despite being at the node itself, or the warp always work despite the distance.
Any idea how to fix this?? :(
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 29, 2003, 11:04:48 am
OK, dunno what you're reffering to cos I'm too lazy to read the thread, so I'm guessing that what you want is this:

when
>
distance
Alpha
Node
350 (assuming a node is 700m wide)
no-warp
Alpha

Set this event to repeat every few seconds. With retail FS2 you can only set 999 repeats, but like I say Open can (or soon will) allow you to specify infinite repeats. Then you want:

when
<
distance
Alpha
Node
350
allow-warp
Alpha

Again, set many repeats for great justice. My FREDding's a little rusty so I may not have those SEXP names exactly right, but you should gte the idea. And they should work, in theory. On the off chance that you can't tell Alpha wing to no-warp or something, you'll need to set up events for each member of Alpha individually. Just make sure you get the < and > symbols right, they're a common cause of misfiring SEXPs :nod:
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Singh on September 29, 2003, 11:09:10 am
The < and > symbols are correct, and so is the repeat counter i think. Its more of a problem with my SCP version than FRED, so hopefully it should work on someone else's computer. :)

Thank you for you help though :D
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 29, 2003, 03:50:05 pm
Well I have to help occasionally or I get accused of trolling :)
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on September 29, 2003, 04:01:05 pm
why the repeat counts ?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 29, 2003, 04:08:49 pm
So that the event is constantly re-evaluated. Otherwise the misison would start and FS2 would say 'OK, Alpha isn't in the node so no warp for you'. Then when you got to the node it would allow you to warp.

With the repeats, FS2 is asking these questions repeatedly. Once you leave the node area again, it will say 'is Alpha in the node? No. Right, no warp for you :ha:'

The more often it repeats, the more accurate it is :nod:

The thing to watch with repeats is the change SEXPs. It's often efficient to lump as many commands as possible under one SEXP but this can screw stuff up if you have the event repeating... beware...
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on September 30, 2003, 01:39:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
With retail FS2 you can only set 999 repeats
:wtf: You sure about that, DG?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 30, 2003, 09:46:22 am
Errr... yes? :nervous:

I'm pretty sure, anyway. In any case one of those new coding fellows has eliminated the finite repeat count. So it must have been an issue for someone somewhere :)
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on October 02, 2003, 12:45:18 pm
999 repeats is more than 16 minutes at 1 second repeats remember but I seem to remember typing in more than that into the box. Are you saying that FRED accepts more than 999 but FS2 stops at 1000?
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on October 02, 2003, 02:35:15 pm
how about this:
initially Alpha break warp (or whatever the SEXP is)
then
is event true delay (main objectives complete)
and
distance -Alpha-jump node distance < than (whatever distance)
allow warp Alpha.
That's what I'd do.I hardly ever use repeat counts.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on October 02, 2003, 03:08:13 pm
Yah, but then when Alpha leaves the node, the jump drives are still active
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on October 02, 2003, 03:24:43 pm
That said using the -is event true thing would cut down on the repeats needed. If you only have 999 of them making them only start after the mission is over would solve that problem.
 I mean who'd stick around for 17 minutes after the mission is over? :D
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on October 02, 2003, 03:41:28 pm
Some FREDders insist on putting weird happenings in to missions for the benefit of players willing to hang around for a while... so legend has it
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on October 02, 2003, 03:47:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Yah, but then when Alpha leaves the node, the jump drives are still active

'suppose the debriefing sexp could be adjusted for this ie:
when
and
has departed delay (Alpha)
>
distance
Alpha-jump node
("distance")

then write a debriefing about departing at the wrong place.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: karajorma on October 02, 2003, 04:00:42 pm
And then you'll soon find that your players abandon your campaign in disgust.

I certainly wouldn't ever touch a campaign again if it had the cheek to make me fail a mission simply cause I pressed Alt-J in the wrong place. Especially if the warning not to jump out anywhere else was easily missed.
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: diamondgeezer on October 02, 2003, 04:16:03 pm
Absolutely. Give it up megatsu mate :)
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: Setekh on October 05, 2003, 02:02:33 am
If there was voice acting, it might be better - but dude, messages fly by at a mile a minute (faster, actually) when there's no voicing. You have to set it up very clearly if you expect anyone to follow orders.

Oh, and moved to FS Campaigns forum (Fredding).
Title: The Newbie FREDer :)
Post by: magatsu1 on October 06, 2003, 12:23:11 pm
hey, I didn't say I'd make the mission a failure!
and besides, if you add objective text, who'd miss that ?