Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Shiva-jin Buu on September 30, 2003, 03:04:05 pm

Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Shiva-jin Buu on September 30, 2003, 03:04:05 pm
If you were a high-placed member of the GTVA Security Council, or the Shivan equivalent of that, how would you defend your vital Jump Nodes?

Would you station a few destroyers, or would you use GTSG Mjolnirs?
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Thor on September 30, 2003, 03:13:34 pm
Several Lines of Mjolnirs, more or less depending on the systems importance, with Cap ship support close by, again, numbers and class depending on the system
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 30, 2003, 03:35:09 pm
RBCs in first line with sentry guns and fighters protecting them, and any warships you have forming a second line and plugging the gaps as the RBCs die off :nod:

Mines might be good as well
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on September 30, 2003, 03:49:44 pm
I'd do the Wing Co Secret Ops way.
In FS2, that woudld translate that way:
drop a lot of Meson bombs around the dubious node, at some distance, equiped with rockets, all of them pointiong toward the node. If something bad comes out, one of them will fly right into it and detonate. If there's something bad left, another meson bomb goes to finish it. If there's still something left,  etc etc
Of course, you have listening stations that will warn command during inital enemy contact so it can react appropriately in the very surprising case something could get through the complete homing meson mine field.

Is that good enough of a protection for you? :D
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 30, 2003, 03:51:35 pm
Nah, it'd make for a boring mission :)
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on September 30, 2003, 03:52:53 pm
but you can't have better than that :p
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Starks on September 30, 2003, 04:07:07 pm
Go with a Melial Installation...
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: diamondgeezer on September 30, 2003, 04:12:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
but you can't have better than that :p

How about 34 Colossus-class supercaps :ha::D
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on September 30, 2003, 04:19:46 pm
you can't have better, doable by the GTVA, than that :p
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: DragonClaw on September 30, 2003, 04:24:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
you can't have better, doable by the GTVA, than that :p


Actually, doubt they could afford that many meson bombs.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Kosh on September 30, 2003, 04:30:23 pm
RBCs for sure. Some cruisers for AAA support. Some fighters and bombers. Depending on system importance, some Corvettes. If the system is very important, then some destroyer class vessels. Numbers are also dependant on system importance.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: aldo_14 on September 30, 2003, 04:33:49 pm
RBCs stationed around, forming a focal point on the exit (either fixed, or using early warning sensors & thrusters depending on whether there's one or many exit vectors).  And a great mass of sentry guns, as many as can be found, to protect from smaller fighters.  

OR! A big chunk of rock, right in front of the exit point.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: phreak on September 30, 2003, 04:39:05 pm
i have a model of a giant defense gun floating around. its main beam shoots about 300km.  just need to plop a few of those well away from the node and let them do some magic

the model itself needs work. i kinda suck at that sort of thing.

forgive the ****ty render, TS is being a *****

http://www.swooh.com/peon/phreak/odg2.zip
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/phreak/odg.jpg)
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Flaser on September 30, 2003, 05:21:54 pm
These ideas are all flawed.

Who said the enemy is going to use that particular node.
Even if hard to use and are minor in numbers there are a lot of nodes with a short life-span as well as uncharted nodes.

BTW even if you're forced to use that node: how about sending there a remote bomb yourself - that would take care of the defenders.

Huge orbiting guns - I doubt they could handle a 100 small fighters at once.

No stationary or static defense will hold IMHO. They can be great for situations like the NTF rebellion, where the incoming forces were simply herded like sheep towards their doom, however a truly flexible enemy - like the Shivans - could circumvent such a defense.

IMHO the problem with these doomsday defences is that they are the strongest - and also - the list line of defense.

I would use several torpedo/heavy beam corvettes for hit and run tactics.

Instead dealing a massive blow to my enemy I'd slowly cut him to pieces with my lightning fleet.
A strong pack of destoyers would than take care of the separated units.

I'd also use wolfpacks of lightning cruisers, while these super cruisers would act on their own in balance with the entropic warfare.

Of course this kind of war would need a lot of Inteligence so I'd have to use a garmada of recon and scout craft and build a mobile early warning/monitoring system.

To protect the cruisers I'd use some heavy fighters with interceptors.

The destroyer group would be defended with a garmada of interceptors and point-defense craft.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Hippo on September 30, 2003, 05:28:55 pm
I have one for each game...
FS2:
I'd put a siseable destroyer, or installation behind the vector leaving the node, so that if something with weapons oriented twords the front would have to turn to defend itself.

FS1:
2 cruisers at the rear of the exit vector, to attempt to disable the ship, one cruiser above and below the node, to shoot at the sides, one in the front to keep the turrets occupied, and wings of fighters above, below and behind, to handle any other fighters, and help to disable and disarm the ship...
AHTW (www.sectorgame.com/ahtw) will have some missions using this theory...
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Starks on September 30, 2003, 06:12:59 pm
50 Gorgon Cannons surrounding a Melial Gate...
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 01, 2003, 12:40:30 am
I like the idea of the Meson minefield, but with a few changes.  Have a listening post or advance cruiser on the far side of the node.  If they detect a massive fleet on approach vector to the node... we're talking a Sathanis fleet or something, an unmanned cruiser on the near side would be remotely guided into the node and activate its jump drive.  Imediately before this, all the propelled Meson mines would move towards the node and simultaneously detonate once the cruiser opens the node.  Of course, you'd want to wait until any forces you had on the far side were through, and perhaps wait until as many of the Sathani (plural Sathanis) are inside the corridor... I bet a intersystem subspace corridor collapsing on you would make for a REAL, bad day. :D

Later!
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on October 01, 2003, 01:59:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by DragonClaw


Actually, doubt they could afford that many meson bombs.


How many nukes is there on earth, mmh? take that to GTVA scale, with technology from 500 years in the future. If they can't do it, they deserve to be eaten alive by the shivans.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: AlphaOne on October 01, 2003, 05:50:53 am
Well why not put a fully armed and armoured instalation some 10 km away from the node (this providing the instalation has some realy big guns i mean a range of some 15 km and a masive damage...it only needs to have 5 or 6 of these things pointed twords the node with some aditional remote controled beamcannons...with theyr own close range AAAf turrets..(a maxim and a shuiled destroyng weapon as part of a turret..).
The instalation will have its own fighter/bommber bay..with lets say 400 craft..kept there at all times(lets not repeat the whole Colossus incident when the big mtf had no aicraft on board at all..therefore no aditional firepower..). and lets say a friggate or 2 corvettes patroling the area at all time...of course this depends on the importance of the sistem..!
If the sistem is very important then lest bring in a couple of Orions or even 2 Hecates..(the Orions can realy take a beating..cant they...:nod: ).
And if the sistem was the most important or crucialy important like the nebula or some other Important sistem then y would station a mine filed in front of the node..and lets say some 600 bommbers and fighters/interceptors..on the instalation...with lets say 2 Destroyers and a couple of corvettes..:thepimp:
now that is i believe a well defended node....not even the  Sathany fleet woludnt have it easier...with the first of these behemonts getting opumbled into oblivion by all these beam cannons from all around it not to metion the bommbers..and fighters..!;7
Of course you must have an early warning sistem..and why not mine the jump node itself..!
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: TrashMan on October 01, 2003, 08:21:05 am
A defnese rings corridor.

Imagine large defensive platforms that are shaped like 1/4 or a ring. Each platform has Heavy anti-capship weaponry and aaf weapons. Put 4 of those around the node (up, down, lef, right).
place another four, 500m away, then another four, then another....

Form a 10km long tunnel made of such defensive platforms!:D
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: TopAce on October 01, 2003, 09:35:55 am
Mjolnirs, some modified ones with AAAs. But what about money?
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: kasperl on October 01, 2003, 10:30:51 am
mm, i wouldn't block nay nodes, i'd take my fleet and go geurrilla.

have all the civilians run like hell, and sacrifice 3 or 4 systems as a frontline, and have packs of 1 destroyer, 2 corvettes, and 3 or 4 cruisers occupy large positions, and have packs of large fighters or small cruisers, Heavy Patrol Vehicles, running around.

the HPV's would have a crew of 5, food, water and missiles for up to 2 weeks, and be equiped with 3 turrets on the sides and back, and heavy fighter weapons up front. like 3*4 primarys, with the abilty to mount different ones with 5 minutes work, and 4*lots secondarys, with the same thing like the primarys.

they'd be resupplied by support ships send from cruisers or small asteroid bases, and have intersystem drives.

they'd hunt in packs of 3 or 4, and attack anything from fighters to corvettes, or destroyers when they've got bomber support from the destroyers. the commanding officer would be ranked a commander, but the leader of a pack would be a captain.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on October 01, 2003, 11:59:23 am
and then? you know, if you sacrify systems every time the shivan comes, you're gonna be screwed up very fast, and people sure won't be happy. and if the 80 odd sathanas goes after you, your guerilla fleet will be... useless. Guerilla works when you can hurt the enemy. There's virtually no suplly route to cut for shivans, psychological warfare doesn't seem to be an option, and a sathanas can simply ignore a destroyer that would attack it. In FS1, we don't even know where they came from: they appeared in an apparently closed system. I'm not sure closing nodes has any effect at all on them ( destroying the knossos did nothing, after all ).
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: kasperl on October 01, 2003, 12:25:10 pm
mmm
well, i;d go geurilla for anything non shivan for sure, and for the shivans, well, i'd meson every node where there might be a shivan infestation. and for every new node i'd have a few mesons waiting.

it sounds stupid, but it seemes like the best chance for survival.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: TopAce on October 01, 2003, 12:28:39 pm
Which age are you talking about? You cannot collapse all nodes the Shivans pass throught. They are at Capella, the best place for them is there :)
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Nico on October 01, 2003, 12:51:10 pm
They were at Ross128 too, you know. Ross128 is two jumps away from Earth ( which makes me think: I don't remember, how come FS1 lasted so long if the shivans were already only two jumps away from Earth at the very begining? )
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: TopAce on October 01, 2003, 12:58:05 pm
but you don't have anything to collapse the jump nodes with. Meson bombs don't exists there, and you don't have the knowledge that nodes can be collapsed. It was only discovered when the Lucifer went down.
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Trivial Psychic on October 01, 2003, 12:59:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
They were at Ross128 too, you know. Ross128 is two jumps away from Earth ( which makes me think: I don't remember, how come FS1 lasted so long if the shivans were already only two jumps away from Earth at the very begining? )


Must... resist... urge... to... pimp... my own... campaign...!

... whew!

Later!
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Hippo on October 01, 2003, 03:15:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
They were at Ross128 too, you know. Ross128 is two jumps away from Earth ( which makes me think: I don't remember, how come FS1 lasted so long if the shivans were already only two jumps away from Earth at the very begining? )


I remember a long thread on this on the VBB, though, i don't remember the accepted solution... Anyone remember?
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: ChronoReverse on October 02, 2003, 01:01:50 am
I'd send in two Deimos Class corvettes and Alpha1.  That'll stop anything =D
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Drew on October 02, 2003, 07:17:11 am
dont forget your 36 wingman backup :rolleyes:
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: ChronoReverse on October 03, 2003, 08:18:10 pm
You mean the cannon fodder?  Drones would be cheaper...
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Taristin on October 03, 2003, 08:52:41 pm
And probably more effective. Alpha 2 was always the first ninny to die off...
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Singh on October 03, 2003, 11:23:37 pm
Stuff some explosives into tons and tons and tons of those small TC crates (you heard it right- small crates- the most expendable FS2 ship ever!) use tons of small freighters to quickly come in, dump the crates around the node directly into the flight vectors. As soon as a ship comes in (especially if its a large one) BAM! right into the crates that go BOOM (appropriately spaced so that they dont trigger the ones surrounding them of course). Slap some sentry guns around the node along with fighters and Aeolus cruisers (those things are rather effective fighter killers!)  A hell of a lot of RBCs and you have an effective line of defense for the first wave. After the first wave is eliminated using the mines, call in freighters on stand-by to jump in, drop a crate, and jump out. The second wave might be able to dodge the mines and then take out the RBCs by turning around and attacking.
By letting them do so, you essentially expose their flanks to attack. If a destroyer would jump in at this point from further in-system, it could shove several beam shots into the thing's backside before it could turn around to engage it again. Here you have an effective 2nd line of defense.

The 3rd line would be to bring in a dozen cruisers and arrange them on either side of the node. Keep them facing the node at such an angle that they would be able to hit a destroyer or an enemy vessel as it decelerrated down its exit Vector. I have tried this strategy with 4 Cruisers and a corvette, and they took out an Orion destroyer while only loosing 1 ship O_o
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: phreak on October 04, 2003, 12:20:14 am
that reminds me of antimatter bowling from IW2 :drevil:
Title: Jump Node Defense
Post by: Hippo on October 04, 2003, 07:19:17 am
reminded me of DEM moreso...