Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: TopAce on October 01, 2003, 11:58:18 am
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I am looking for a Vasudan Cruiser. any kind, I made a search in Google, but found nothing. Has anyone modelled a Vasudan cruiser at all?
Renegade Ressurgence needs it, because the current Vasudan cruiser we are having is looking quite dirty. If anyone can help me, can get a credit :).
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uggh...must...not.....spam...oh, hell:
I've got some Auto Glym. Give it a scrubbin' !
I hate myself now.
:sigh:
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?:wtf: ?
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You're right, there is a distinct shortage of Vasudan cruisers. Hmm. *wanders off thoughtfully*
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Karajorma suggested me a thing called the Taten. I made a search at Google, not so much success ... :(
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Mentu? Aten?
I like them, anyway...
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The Vausdan cruisers always put me in mind of the Eldar. Well, more Eldar tanks than actual ships but there you go...
Actually, my local GW had a load of Eldar painted up in that Aten/Hatshepsut colour scheeme, 'tis a bit disturbing...
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Originally posted by Odyssey
Mentu? Aten?
I like them, anyway...
I meant non original, user-made cruisers. ;7
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
The Vausdan cruisers always put me in mind of the Eldar. Well, more Eldar tanks than actual ships but there you go...
Actually, my local GW had a load of Eldar painted up in that Aten/Hatshepsut colour scheeme, 'tis a bit disturbing...
Hey, did you know? Eldrad Ulthran died during the EoT campaign.
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Er, what?
<-- Dark Angel Space Marine, thus Eldar are merely targets :nod:
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Originally posted by TopAce
Karajorma suggested me a thing called the Taten. I made a search at Google, not so much success ... :(
Actually I suggested the Tuket :D
I have the original download (It comes with a fighter called the Heptu) but I can't remember who made it or if MG had an exclusive on the model so I can't really give it out until the original modeller admits to owning it.
Geezer may know who made it as may Quadraphonic.
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I think it was one of Bob's... :confused:
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No, it was... someone who's handle started with the letter "m".
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I remember them, but now who made them... Are they on the VW Archives?
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Originally posted by karajorma
Actually I suggested the Tuket :D
....
Oh ... sorry, I don't remember those stupid Vasudan names well. :)
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Oh ... sorry, I don't remember those stupid Vasudan names well
Actually, the Taten is a name of a Vasudan ship in the FS2 campaign I believe, but its not a uh, ship class, just a designation.
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MiG maybe?
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Originally posted by karajorma
Actually I suggested the Tuket :D
I have the original download (It comes with a fighter called the Heptu) but I can't remember who made it or if MG had an exclusive on the model so I can't really give it out until the original modeller admits to owning it.
Geezer may know who made it as may Quadraphonic.
It's on our "Mods" page as being Mad Bomber's :)
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Here's a pic to jog your memories
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/Misc-Pics/screen74.jpg)
For those of you who are slow on the uptake the Tuket is the one on the left :p
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What's that Vasudan fighter in the target box?
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Reshef. It's an Aldo. :p
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Reshef. i made that ages ago - 'twas my first Vasudan fighter. Back in the days of blender. Was also the first model Sesq did the interface for (for me) - he gasve it the name.
Came from a doodle I did in a Systems Analysis and Design lecture, which makes it...ooh, at least 18 months old?
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D/O VF Reshef
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Well I've figured out who made the Tuket. It's the work of Mad Bomber.
I was looking at the main HLP page and happened to want a closer look at the pic of the day cause I couldn't make it out and saw this (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/hlp/file_show.php?fil=172). As I said before the Tuket came in a zip file with the Heptu so by complete coincidence I managed to solve the mystery :D
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Heh Kara, look up at Geezer's post. :rolleyes:
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Now how on Earth did I miss that? :confused:
Oh. He posted at exactly the same time I did so I never saw his post :D
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Originally posted by Odyssey
Mentu? Aten?
I like them, anyway...
Aten blows. No beams.
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Any links?
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Urgh, I never cared much for the Tuket cruiser. It looks like a mutated starfish dragging a vasudan-textured wedding veil. :ick :wtf:
Not to denigrate Mad Bomber´s skills, but the first time I looked at that thing in Modview, I had to work hard to keep from retching.
Stil, considering how old this thing is, when the FS Community was just getting on its feet, we all did pretty raw modding work back then. (Well, except for Aldo...)
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The Vasudan cruiser RR is having is looking even more comical. :)
Click (http://www.cold-space.com/hosted/rr/index.php) and go to Tech database.
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Not funny, just icky.
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Ew.
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KT and Sesq, what?
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Originally posted by TopAce
The Vasudan cruiser RR is having is looking even more comical. :)
Click (http://www.cold-space.com/hosted/rr/index.php) and go to Tech database.
:ick :ick
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Originally posted by kasperl
KT and Sesq, what?
(http://www.cold-space.com/hosted/rr/images/image006.jpg)
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I am surprised I haven't got feedback about it yet. :)
The most visitors ever online were today: 18. I made a good advertisement to increase the visition of my homepage :lol:
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Vasudan Feces!
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Feces? Did you want to write 'Faces'? :wtf:
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Oh no, he ment "feces". Get a dictionary if you want to know what that means. It's not good though.
On that note, why do people think cruisers=small=low-detail=low poly? Especially when they drop into the double digits poly range. This one looks about what, 100, 125?
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It is far more: about 600 polies :ha:
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How the hell did you put 600 polies in that?
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It is not a cube :)
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Really? I would never have known...
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I have known(and I still know) that this cruiser needs replacing. But I have no IDEA how may a new vasudan ship look like.
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I could make a million poly cube if I wanted to, but what would be the point? It's not in how many polys you use, it's how you use them.
TopAce, would you mind showing us a couple of wireframe shots of your ships? You are consistantly using FAR too many polys to make the ships that you do, and I'd love to provide some pointers on conserving polys.
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Do you want a wireframe view of ONLY this cruiser, or all models I am having?
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Here they are. The white is LOD0, the other two are LOD tests.
Enjoy :lol:
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/TopAce/somtus_pers.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/TopAce/somtus_side.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/TopAce/somtus_top.jpg)
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just start with the cruiser.
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Oh, there's the problem. TopAce, you realize that the total polycount can go far over the 800 "limit", right? Some minor issues, you can't possibly have more than 200 polygons invested in the hull, which should be at minimum for a capship somewhere closer to 400. The 600 figure you gave me must count those turrets (Way too many polys in those BTW. Way, way, way too many. The typical turret is somewhere between 10 and 30 polygons.) and the lower LODs. Otherwise you aren't too far off. If you could just get the cruiser hull (no turrets, lods, etc) it would be a little easier to see. Also, let me dig up a quick wireframe on a Vasudan ship I've been working on for DatDB. (It's already publicly known guys, don't worry)
EDIT: Here TopAce, this is a hull approaching the limits of plain FS tolerences. The perspective wireframe only shows polys facing you, but the others show all the polys. The final pic is what she looks like with textures.
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/wire1.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/wire2.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/wire3.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/wire4.jpg)
(http://www.duke.edu/~cek6/unwire.jpg)
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The exact polycount for the ship is 544, with turrets. Excluding the turrets: 362. the turrets are 182 polies(4 turrets, 1x83, and 3x33)
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It's very nice :yes:. How many polies is it?
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I really like that model's geometry, but not the textures, Strat. :yes:
I need to learn to model better, so please, keep goin with this. :)
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Triangulating the model didn't help your poly count either. It hugely increases the poly count for very little appreciable gain.
In fact when the HT&L code comes into effect triangulating will in fact become pointless (at least in FS2_open) as the game will automatically do it anyway.
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Ehh ... kara, ICQ says you are away. Can we have a talk?
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Ok topace, with your ship: You've got two issues going on that are killing your polycount and making you stop detailing long before you have to. For one thing, I still have no idea where about half your polys are hiding out :confused:. However, that said, I would recommend that you reduce the polycount. Lets start by seeing just how unnecessary most of those polys are. Boolean subtracting a cube that doesn't intersect your model will get rid of any triangulations that TS considers unnecessary, so do this. Make sure you have delete edges checked in the Boolean options, or this won't work. Do this, and see how many polys your hull has once this is done. It may be overzealous, but you'll have an easier time putting back the ones you know you need. Truespace will not delete verts this way to my knowledge, but it will combine most of the faces that you've got extra. Now, recreate any faces that are needed to preserve FS geometry as dictated in Kara's FAQ. Don't connect any edges to vertices that are simply on an edge though, these are extra too and need to be deleted. Other general tips: when you have two or more polygons that look flat from any angle, make them a single polygon except when it breaks FS rules of geometry. Make them flat if you need to. Anytime you have a vertex directly between two others, remove the extra vertex and you'll save yourself at least two polys. Any time you have a vertex in the middle of a section that looks flat, get rid of it and you save yourself at least 3 polys. On your ship, the nose is a prime candidate for this. There are probably close to a hundred polygons there that could be replaced with something like 6 and still have the same level of detail. Your other option for adding detail is to move a lot of those verts to where they aren't linear (though in the nose a lot are redundant), especially in places like the sides where you have a line breaking two rows of polygons that are virtually planar. Move those lines out, it'll do wonders for making the thing non-square. The other issue is the turrets; they are way to high poly for what they are. Even if you want the same shape, neither of those should be more than 20 polys. Most especially the funny tall one in the middle, that thing looks rediculous.
My model is 778 polys, a carrier. However, a significant number of those polygons (200+) are tied up in the launch tubes, so without them this thing would be right in cruiser range for level of complexity. Another thing to keep in mind; if you are extruding and scaling (which it looks like you are doing) then you will always be creating planar faces when you scale uniformly. These faces don't have to be triangulated.
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As of this moment, polycount is not a problem, the problem is how that ship looks like. :)
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I know that, but it seems that you stop detailing ships when you feel the polycount is approaching critical. Truth of the matter is, you're no where close. I can't really tell you how to design ships, much less good vasudan ones (I only got the two or three good one's I've made after playing with some features I hadn't ever tried before.) The carrier was a slight exception; I had an idea when looking at the Hatshepsut and just followed it through. Most people model from some kind of concept, but I just do it by the seat of my pants, so to say. Anyway, to make ships look better, you just have to add detail. This thing looks like it could be done in something like 20 polygons and still have the same shape from anything but immediate range. You need things like curves and different ship elements, something you started to work on but didn't get enough of. You shouldn't ever have a single hull color or piece unless your design really calls for it; you need different sections that look like they serve different functions. Helping you save polys in your design phase will allow you to add more detail later on. Just keep trying, modeling is an art, not a science, and I can't give you a formula that will make you better at it.
A general rule of thumb though on what makes a ship plain and undeailed is putting it to the test of the primitives. If you can represent the ship with a handful of primitives (cylinders, cubes, spheres, etc stretched and modified slightly, but not much) without losing much detail, you need a better design.
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Originally posted by StratComm
A general rule of thumb though on what makes a ship plain and undeailed is putting it to the test of the primitives. If you can represent the ship with a handful of primitives (cylinders, cubes, spheres, etc stretched and modified slightly, but not much) without losing much detail, you need a better design.
I like figural elements. :p
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I tried modelling a new vasudan cruiser. Made something, and PCS or the game is always having some problem with it. I hate modelling for FS. That engine sucks. :ick:
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A poor workman blames his tools TopAce. It's not the FS2 engine that sucks at all. If you think that it is the problem make the same model for your enhanced version of RR.
With Hardware Taransform and Lighting you've got 20,000+ polys to spend on your cruiser. With that many to use you can't blame FS2 if your model turns out poor.
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Bah, the Somtus sucks. That looks more like 120 polys than 600.
Place polygons so that each one counts. Don't waste hundreds of polies on an amorphous blob or a few turrets. And above all, use lots of different textures to give an appearance of more detail.
*begs for Woo to release the Selket*
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Bah, the Somtus sucks. That looks more like 120 polys than 600.
And captain obvious strikes again :doubt:
Really wollie, read all of the posts before replying. We're trying to offer TopAce constructive criticism here, not insults. And that particular fact has been stated several times.
TopAce, try modeling something from a V concept or a screenshot. Or try modeling a copy of my Hedetet destroyer, since it's simpler than most :V: ships and I don't care if people use it for a learning tool. I'll be happy to give you all the renders you want if you'd like to try. Here are some shots:
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap1.txt)
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap2.txt)
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap3.txt)
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap4.txt)
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap5.txt)
(http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/vascap6.txt)
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Originally posted by StratComm
And captain obvious strikes again :doubt:
Really wollie, read all of the posts before replying. We're trying to offer TopAce constructive criticism here, not insults. And that particular fact has been stated several times.
Post edited accordingly, and I gave him a new suggestion--use more textures! You can make a 1000 poly ship look like 3000 polys if you texture it right. Case in point: the Kiev.
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Strat's ship is so familiar.
I would rather try doing my own cruiser, but my mood went away for a while. I may try it later. Hurricane doesn't chase, time is unlimited until the voice actors are nowhere.
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Strat's ship looks like a Hatshepsut that was flattened out a bit...
I like it though. Nice to see some strong family resemblence among the ships.
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Strat should subdivide it. :D
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Originally posted by Jal-18
Strat's ship looks like a Hatshepsut that was flattened out a bit...
I like it though. Nice to see some strong family resemblence among the ships.
Meh, that's just textures. Goes to show just how few people actually look at the Hatshepsut, as though this ship shares some design trends (read: the trailing edges of the main body) it really has few structural similarities. The Hatshepsut is a really cool model, though few people seem to look at it from more than the obligatory perspective viewpoint. It's also damn near impossible to replicate (I believe it represents Vasudan design trends found in all of their destroyers), and it's level of grace in its curves is something I have strived to emulate in my Vasudan vessels. The Hedetet fails miserably on that count. So, I could subdivide it all I want, and it'd still look like a poorly textured piece of junk by comparison.
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I thought the aft end specifically looked like the Hatshepsut: the forward end reminds me more of widened out Mentu.
Imposing warship, nonetheless.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Meh, that's just textures. Goes to show just how few people actually look at the Hatshepsut, as though this ship shares some design trends (read: the trailing edges of the main body) it really has few structural similarities. The Hatshepsut is a really cool model, though few people seem to look at it from more than the obligatory perspective viewpoint. It's also damn near impossible to replicate (I believe it represents Vasudan design trends found in all of their destroyers), and it's level of grace in its curves is something I have strived to emulate in my Vasudan vessels. The Hedetet fails miserably on that count. So, I could subdivide it all I want, and it'd still look like a poorly textured piece of junk by comparison.
Flawed or no, the Hedetet does still look pretty sweet.
Strat seems alot less impressed with the Hedetet than the rest of us...
Well, Strat has always been his own harshest critic. :D
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Only textures make it look like a Hatshepsut Mk II. :)
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Strange.....very strange...................
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Strat, try curving those front bits inwards (or outwards, I suppose). The two straight edges on the inside of the 'nose' look out of place.
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Say hello to the GTVC Carum http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18068.0.html
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Originally posted by Jal-18
Strat's ship looks like a Hatshepsut that was flattened out a bit...
I like it though. Nice to see some strong family resemblence among the ships.
My thoughts exactly - it's probably the textures, too. Me likes. :)
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
Flawed or no, the Hedetet does still look pretty sweet.
Strat seems alot less impressed with the Hedetet than the rest of us...
Well, Strat has always been his own harshest critic. :D
I think the Hedetet is lovely.
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The cruiser is nice! Remins me of Voyager(nice ship, bad show)..
...and "Janeway":ick
*womits*