Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Trivial Psychic on October 03, 2003, 01:26:10 am
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OK, without resorting to cheats, editing the mission through some means or another, or changing table entries, have you ever managed to take down the Sathanas that tore apart the Colossus? Every time I play "Their Finest Hour", I make an attempt, but today I came within 3% of destroying the Sathanas. Now, I know you're wondering how I managed to get around the "Big Dammage" table flag problem, without resorting to removing such a flag from the table file. There is a way to do it and after a week I'll post it if no one else has. In any case, it IS possible to avenge the Colossus... that I know for sure.
Well, how'd ya' do?
Later!
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A fighter taking on the Sathanas, ARE YOU FRIGGIN MAD!!!!!!
Now accept youll eventully be able to smash it, but dude, at least have some bomber support.
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Now, I know you're wondering how I managed to get around the "Big Dammage" table flag problem, without resorting to removing such a flag from the table file.
Trebuchets my good man
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or kamakazie watermellons... doo doo doo doo doo doooooo
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I only attack the Sathanas if I want to improve my accuracy. Full laser recharge with Maxims firing from the distance. :)
While testing one of the missions in RR, I realized it is possible to take out a ship with 'big damage' flag without Trebuchets or Cyclops. But I am not sure why it is by. Maybe from the Stiletto, it has a 'huge' flag, and maybe it is a bug. Or simply there were too many of us attacking that ship with our lasers(9 fighters). But I experienced this in the case of a Hatshepsut, not a Sathanas.
The Hatshepsut and the Sathanas are same in this field, the Sathie is only ten times as tough.
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"never even crossed my mind"
must take ages if it is "do-able" though.
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Trebs kick ass....
Me preparing for Shivan Gauntlet:
I ain't going against any bombers, but I'll probably be fighting large capital ships. My wingmen are incompetant. My fighter's hull is like tinfoil. The enemy capships' weapons have longer range than mine.
To return to the original question: What shall I load out with?
Trebuchets.
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Never even crossed me mind. I'd rather get on to the next mission than sit around for hours holding the trigger down...
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Well, let me put it this way....
The fact that that I was able to keep the Phoenicia alive for the entire previous mission without cheats. Who else can state that achievement? It can't be that hard to defeat a flagged Sath.
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The Phoenicia? It is only in Bearbaiting, and it doesn't reappear anywhere else. :confused:
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Me! :D That's purely a matter of luck, LLivingLarge - the sath fires at the Phoenicia as soon as it jumps in. If it fires 3 beams, Phoenicia lives. If it fires 4 beams, Phoenicia dies. If it survives the first volley, the Phoenicia jumps out anyway (IIRC), so it can't die...
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No, it did get hit by one volley and I Trebbed all four main beams... The Phoenicia actually stuck around for the whole mission and helped me out. That thing only had about 50% damage at the end of the mission.
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takes more than a couple of Trebs to nail the Saths main beams:wtf:
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Those beams are exegeneratedly powerful. It is impossible that a turret of that size can be armored so heavily.
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
No, it did get hit by one volley and I Trebbed all four main beams... The Phoenicia actually stuck around for the whole mission and helped me out. That thing only had about 50% damage at the end of the mission.
I meant Helii... Besides, I don't know why in hell that one particular time the Sath kept firing it's MAIN BEAMS (not fighter beams) at my wingmen.
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Me! :D That's purely a matter of luck, LLivingLarge - the sath fires at the Phoenicia as soon as it jumps in. If it fires 3 beams, Phoenicia lives. If it fires 4 beams, Phoenicia dies. If it survives the first volley, the Phoenicia jumps out anyway (IIRC), so it can't die...
Its pretty random whether or not it fires 3 or 4, but if it only fires 3, the phonecia comes down to 1%... It involves luck... :nod:
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Phoenicia cannot die.... I played the mission 8 times at least..
When it vomes to 1% it becomes invulnerable..
Sath fires...hull goes to 1%... sath keeps on fireing (it's beams are still on for a good 2-3 seconds), the hull integrity blinks, but it doesn't budge...
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In standard FS, it was possible for the Phoenicia to die, pretty easy in fact. It all depends on whether or not the SEXP that triggers the invulnerability fires in time; the Sath beams are so powerful the Phoenicia can die between refreshes of the SEXP checks. It usually does trigger correctly, but it isn't unusual to see her blow.
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she departs at 4% no matter what, even if destroyed while speeding up, she still departs then and there...
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I've seen Phonecia debris, though. It's a timing issue with those overpowered beams.
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I just had really bad memories of taking down the Hades in ST. Please excuse me. :D
(Oh, and I've never avenged her. Sorry ;))
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
I meant Helii... Besides, I don't know why in hell that one particular time the Sath kept firing it's MAIN BEAMS (not fighter beams) at my wingmen.
Helios is greek, so the correct plurar wouldn't be Helii, but Helioi, or Heliois, Heliou or Helioon.
but that's wierd, main bemans going after fighters, must be some bug....
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"Command, we have emerged fom subspace in a large debris field."
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The Phoenicia gets destroyed every time I play that mission.
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This Phoenicia thing makes my angry, because in Renegade Ressurgence, the player will be assigned to that ship :(.
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Then you should have used a different ship! :D
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Phoenicia goes down to 3% each time then warps
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I've seen it die sometimes and survive other times. The damage done by beams does include a random element and the Phoenicia is right on the borderline where the random element can be the decider.
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Originally posted by karajorma
Then you should have used a different ship! :D
I knew that the Phoenicia is sure to survive when I decided to put it in game.
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Originally posted by redsniper
The Phoenicia gets destroyed every time I play that mission.
Seconded.
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Well, from the results it seems that only one of you has ever avenged the Collossus and taken out the Sathanas that destroyed it. I myself cannot make such a claim, although I came very close on 2 occasions, each failing for different reasons. In any case, as promissed, I will now post my method for destroying this vessel, without resorting to cheats, table edits, missions edits, or any other alterations... although flying under Open is allowed.
1- Ship & Loadout. Make sure to select a ship that can carry a decent amount of Trebuchets. My personal selection is the Ares with 2 Kaysers, 4 Maximx, 2ndary bank 1 with Tornadoes, 2ndary bank 2 with Trebs.
2- Don't be too good. Basically, ensure you lose all of your Alpha-mates and all of Beta wing. This will call in Gamma fighters and Delta heavy bombers. Delta wing will be carying Cyclops (or some other lighter bomb), that have the "Big Dammage" flag associated with them... I think you know where I'm going with this.
3- Keep Delta Away. To avoid them taking any dammage, avoid giving Delta wing any orders to engage. You'll want them intact when the Sathanas arrives, so don't put them in any danger.
4- Countermand Command. When the Collossus goes down, Command orders everyone to withdraw. You want as many fighters to remain as possible, so with cleaverly timed orders to your team, you can get them to ignore the order to depart. Giving them cycling orders to attack, ignore, form on your wing, all while the Collossus is getting thrashed and command tells everyone to clear out, is the best way.
5- Form up & Send 'em home. You don't want all your bombers to die because they decided to follow their "programing" and attack the Sathanas, so tell 'em all to form up. If there are any other craft in the area, Gamma wing or other fightres, tell 'em all to depart. Their weaponry is useless in taking down the juggernaught, and in the long run they'll just cause troubles taking up rearming priority over the bombers.
6- Treb & Load, Treb & Load. You'll need to cycle your time accelerate and decelerate alot, as it takes 4 Trebs to take out even the weakest turrets on a Sathanas. The maximum number of Trebs you can carry in bay 2 of an Ares is 13, so you'll need to rearm quite often. As you take out cannons, you'll need to circle the Sathanas to take out those weapons that are out of perspective. Remember to stay at least 3K away from the nearest turret, or you could lose a bomber.
7- Release The Hounds! With the Juggernaught disarmed and with no scripted orders to withdraw, she is a sitting duck. You will however have to manage your resources. I find its best to have 2 bombers stay on your wing and order the remaining 2 to attack either the same subsystem or 2 that are near each other. This way they'll have quick access to a support ship when they run out of bombs. If a ship needs a rearm and doesn't get it for a certain amount of time, it will fly away from its target and won't come back until you order it to.
8- Play Dead. None of your weapons will help in the long run, so the best thing you can do is watch over the bombers so they don't do anything stupid. If you keep depleting your own weapons load and calling for a rearm, you'll delay them in getting their rearms and slow the process.
9- AI is stupid. When bombers have taken out a subsystem and need a new target, its better to get them to form on your wing first. If the next target is behind a piece of hull, the AI will try to fly through that hull and possibly compromize its own in the process. Allways lead your bombers like sheep through safe passages to an optimum firing position, then let 'em attack. Also be sure to call for a rearm while you're repositioning the bombers, so that the support ship will be nearby when your bombers have to ask for a rearm. Otherwise, you might run into the wall thing again (:D).
10- Watch... real fast. Even at 4x speed, just watching the bombers go after the Sathanas will take the better part of an hour. Make sure you've got the time in the REAL world to kill for this, 'cause if you don't watch it you just might end up missing breakfast, lunch, and supper, and nearly having to arrive at work unshowered, unshaven, and late (long story), like a certain person I know. :nervous: :rolleyes: :D
If you follow these instructions (and don't have a copy of FS_Open that has a tendancy to crash on this mission) you should be able to turn that Sathanas into a debris field before your next mission. Its all in a day's work for a GTVA pilot. Of course, you won't get credit for the kill, but you'll know you've earned it through adherence to this above method.
Now you know the proceedure... KILL, KILL, KILL!!!!
Later!
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Wow, you've really thought this out, huh? ;) I promise I'll give it a go the next time I'm running through the main campaign. Maybe by the time they've got a stable HT&L build up. :D
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Ok here's my idea. Put something on the ALT button that will fire trebuchets and make something that would constantly press C 5 to get rockets and encrease game speed to 4x. Go to sleep and when you wake up, you will see SJ crap flying all around ya. ;7
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I destroyed the sathanus, but i had to smile when it took out the colossus in a few minutes . Awsome stuff :yes:
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Originally posted by Razor
Ok here's my idea. Put something on the ALT button that will fire trebuchets and make something that would constantly press C 5 to get rockets and encrease game speed to 4x. Go to sleep and when you wake up, you will see SJ crap flying all around ya. ;7
Nice idea, but it won't work... the Treb has no "Big Dammage" flag or whatever it is that allows only bombs, beams, cap-ship guns and perhaps ramming to take out anything larger than a cruiser, ie. corvette and up.
Later!
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Never destroyed the Sath, Phoey makes it out most of the time
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Nice idea, but it won't work... the Treb has no "Big Dammage" flag or whatever it is that allows only bombs, beams, cap-ship guns and perhaps ramming to take out anything larger than a cruiser, ie. corvette and up.
Later!
Yes it does! I've taken out corvettes with trebs before.
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Humm... just looking through my table file shows the following flags for the Treb: ( "player allowed" "Bomber+" "huge"). The flags for the Cyclops and Helilos are ( "Bomb" "Huge" "No Dumbfire" "player allowed" ). Which is the active flag for this kind of thing? I'm afraid I haven't delved into this kind of thing much.
Later!
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"huge"
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Sathanas FELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:!
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I remember a long time ago when the FRED Zone released a mission pack which included a converted version of Their Finest Hour to multi. Darkage and I personally destroyed all the cannons on the Sathanas before it could take down the Colossus and we destroyed it. I can't remember exactly how we did it. I guess we didn't lose very many wingmen (bombers mainly). Although, in the debriefing we got yelled at for failing the mission. :p
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Originally posted by Joey_21
I remember a long time ago when the FRED Zone released a mission pack which included a converted version of Their Finest Hour to multi. Darkage and I personally destroyed all the cannons on the Sathanas before it could take down the Colossus and we destroyed it. I can't remember exactly how we did it. I guess we didn't lose very many wingmen (bombers mainly). Although, in the debriefing we got yelled at for failing the mission. :p
Failing the mission? Not 'leaving without authorization'? :mad:
I have played that multi mission. that was a good one, but PXO produces heavy LAGs, and is not enjoyable. :(
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Further proof that had the GTVA had an entire _wing_ of Alpha1's the entire Sathanas fleet could've been destroyed XD
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Originally posted by TopAce
Failing the mission? Not 'leaving without authorization'? :mad:
I have played that multi mission. that was a good one, but PXP produces heavy LAGs, and is not enjoyable. :(
Exactly. :doubt:
As you could imagine, it left us in anger. :lol:
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Why were you so angry? You got the score for killing the Sathie, not?
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Heh, I have the kills for several dozen Saths. Ahhh, non-kill-counting capship beams. :D
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Originally posted by TopAce
Why were you so angry? You got the score for killing the Sathie, not?
if u fail the mission it isnt logged isnt it?
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Originally posted by SuperCoolAi
if u fail the mission it isnt logged isnt it?
Every validated mission finsihed without using hacked data, and cheats is logged(so you get your achieved score).
The program doesn't know when is a mission completed, or failed. The .fc2 file must tell it to the game. That mission is individual, and has no .fc2 file included, because it is not a campaign.
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I am guilty, I tried to do so, with the good old Treb. And yes it works, the Sathanas is virtually destroyed that way, if you have hours. (Even with X4 time compression, I needed no less than eight games minutes to take the Sathanas from 100 to 99. 2 real time minutes I believe)
If only there were Helioi available on that mission, or at least, a few additional Alpha One.
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easy enough to just sit directly in the defenseless back of the sath and fire trebuchets for a while. you can have your wingmen disarm it just in case.
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You don't even have to close in with the Sathanas, firing Trebuchets at four clicks work fine enough. Sure, then you only have to wait for a while. A *long* while. :)
Around the same lines, you could *attempt* to engage the Ravana on the second nebula mission. (I forgot the name of the mission. That's the one where the Actium and the Lysander are present) Unfortunately, with the weaponry available on this mission, you aren't going to go far with your Subach and a few Hornets. (Not to mention the "Big Damage" thingie)
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Originally posted by Thylrial
You don't even have to close in with the Sathanas, firing Trebuchets at four clicks work fine enough. Sure, then you only have to wait for a while. A *long* while. :)
Around the same lines, you could *attempt* to engage the Ravana on the second nebula mission. ....
You cannot .... It jumps out too soon ....
The mission title is: 'The Great Hunt'
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It didn't jump out when I tried to engage it. Strange. I stayed with the Ravana for three minutes or so, which should have warped out since then according to FRED. *Frowns* The Actium survived this time, so perhaps this puzzled the Ravana.
In either case, the Ravana isn't supposed to remain for long. And anyway, you would have trouble to take down a Destroyer with Subach lasers and the Big Damage flag.
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i just watched when Collossus died and drinked rum;)
last time i played freespace main campaign
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Sorry to bump this thread, especialy after going inactive for so long, but I wanted to post this. Its been nagging me for months now, and with locking-crashes (somewhat overcome), joystick issues (solved for now), time issues (post-Xmas, I work retail, you do the math), and finally following my own proceedure correctly, I haven't been able to do this... until now. I bring you... the Colossus avenged!!
(http://www3.sympatico.ca/daniel.topps/ColossusAvenged.jpg)
Note the Sathanas fleet it the background, the directives list on the left, and the big fireball consuming the Sathanas, all confirming which mission this is. Also note the multiple hull explosion HT&L thing, the low FPS in the upper lefthand corner, giving a ball-park estimate of my PC's capabilities, and what you can't see, such as the near 200 minute mission time it took to reach this state... it coulda been less, but I tried to Treb the last 1% on my own and failed. Do the Trebs' "bomb" flag not beat a "supercap" flag?
Well, one down, another... 80 or so to go. :D
Later!
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Hehe. Cool. :)
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The time display is not visible. How much time did it take? I would have armed myself with two banks of Trebuchets. It is much faster.
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Mm, it is a little bright to see too much.
Wow, TP, I just thought of something. Which version of Freespace were you using with this? Were you using retail or FS2_open?
If it isn't too much trouble, could you try repeating this with the 01_20_2004 build? It would provide us with an excellent stress test. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
The time display is not visible. How much time did it take? I would have armed myself with two banks of Trebuchets. It is much faster.
I could read part of the time gauge, and it said 197 minutes (three hours and 17 minutes! Damn, you must be patient!), but I couldn't read the number of seconds.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
If it isn't too much trouble, could you try repeating this with the 01_20_2004 build? It would provide us with an excellent stress test. :)
Way ahead of you Goob, that WAS the 01_20_2004 "r" build with flags -htl, -jpgtga, -fps, using the 356c mediaVP and Lightspeed's low-res tga planet pack, though not the advanced weapons or thrusters.
If you're interested, system specs.:
AMD 800 MHz. (thunderbird)
256MB PC133
ASUS A7V
120GB WDC
ASUS V7100 GF2 MX 32MB AGP (drivers 53.04)
WinME
Woolie: You're about right on the time, and I used time acceleration to get that, but yes I had to be patient.
Ace: In my experience, trebs don't do the trick against a Sathanas. Take a look at my proceedure on the previous page... that's how I did it.
Later!
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gf2 mx
hmm, that's your multi-ship problem
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Way ahead of you Goob, that WAS the 01_20_2004 "r" build with flags -htl, -jpgtga, -fps, using the 356c mediaVP and Lightspeed's low-res tga planet pack, though not the advanced weapons or thrusters.
Cool. :) I'll have to show this to RandomTiger.
So now we have a whole new variant on the "kill the Hades" theme from Silent Threat. :lol: Maybe that's what we should do for Silent Threat: Reborn... bring in a Sathanas instead. :drevil:
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This just goes to show the sheer perversity of human beings. It's universally agreed that the final mission of Silent Threat was boring and poorly written because you had to sit there for ages shooting the same ship endlessly.
However make a mission where you don't have to do that and someone will try it anyway! :lol:
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Heh, well in one of the original Silent Threat missions, destroying a Typhon was a bonus objective. ;)
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You mean the Hades was killable ?
I got sick of bloody Lokis pecking at me and just turned it off. Never got to see the end.