Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gloriano on October 03, 2003, 08:04:30 am
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Gabe Newell confirms that the Valve network was hacked.
Since late yesterday, reports have spread that the source code for Half-Life 2 was leaked and was illicitly posted on the Web. Valve's Gabe Newell has today confirmed in a post on the Half-Life2.net forum that the file that is circulating is indeed the Half-Life 2 source code and said that it was stolen from Valve's network two weeks ago.
Newell summed up the importance of these events with "Well, this sucks," saying that "this has just not been the best couple of days for me or for Valve." He explained that someone gained access to his e-mail and installed keystroke recorders on several Valve computers as a means of stealing passwords. Valve and its Steam service have been the targets of several denial-of-service attacks over the past year, and he said it was unclear if these were related to the recent attacks.
Valve is turning to the gaming community in asking for any information that might lead to those responsible for the denial-of-service attacks or the network infiltration. Newell asked that any possible leads be sent to [email protected] .
Newell didn't comment on whether these events would impact Half-Life 2's release schedule, which was recently pushed back from September 30 to late this year
//www.gamespot.com
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Yeah, I had heard of it. Bad for them, I guess, but there's some really happy coders out there messing with the code, I guess. :p
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well.. this may be a good thing if you think about it.. means that mods /might/ be made sooner, thus improving the long-term replayability of the game.. :nod:
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same thing happened with Halo PC...
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Personally I can't see this hurting them much. Sure you can put together your own version of Half-life 2 with it but without any maps made for you what can you do?
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Well, for them, it is bad. Even if their code can't be used directly, you can guess the people from, say, ID software, or anybody else, will get a deep look at it and copy the stuff that they like.
for gamers, well, that means everybody will have to work harder to be the best, now, so we might get better games :p
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ow that sucks.
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Oooh... ouch. Hope that doesn't discourage them too much.
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Oh, MAN that blows!!
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rofl well they did it nice move @ hackers :p
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I bet this was actualy an intentional leak, given how much of HL's sucsess was based on the mods
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mmh, you're the kind to see conspiracies everywhere, heh? :p
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i agree with bob actually
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you're one of them, aren't you...
:mad: AREN"T YOU!?! :mad:
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those peoples that do this kind things are stupid
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Could you imagine if valve said that they wouldn't release HL2 until they had the names of those involved?
They would be turned in by the hacker community in a heart beat :D
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Originally posted by Ashrak
i agree with bob actually
That's quite a gamble to release the whole source before the game is even released, don't you think? when the concurrence hasn't released their games themselves? :p
Bob: well, I could tell you, but you'd have to die :p
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AHH, the black helicopters are comeing for me!!!!
/*self destructs home*/
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I heard that this was a hoax and that it was nothing more than the Half-Life SDK with a few lines added and a few re-written to make it look new.
That's what I heard. Not 100% on that.
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I thought the code had already been offically released ?
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Originally posted by magatsu1
I thought the code had already been offically released ?
:wtf: even HL2 is not out yet
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yeah,sorry, it's the tools which have already been released
(see "Equip", the "Edge, Guide to the Future of PC")
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In an email Newell sent to others in the game industry (Ion Storm in this case), he explained the nature of the hack in some detail and asked for help from other developers in tracking down those responsible.
Given the details he provided to the folks at Ion Storm and others, I'd say there's no conspiracy here. Valve was hit by a targetted hack, designed specifically to grab a copy of the source tree. This was certainly not an intentional release, covert or otherwise.
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Jesus, don't people have anything better to do with their time? :doubt:
I just think it's rather sad that somebody actually invested their time, energy and effort to do this. What's the f***ing point?
:blah:
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ok hackers code is not to earn money but complete the challange..... you try hacking a game soft developer and grabbing the source code without getting busted :)
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Whatever gets 'em off, I suppose. Even so, couldn't they hack something useful, like the big W's email, or summat? That'd be far more interesting than game code (even if it is HL2 :D).
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Hackers really are dicks, aren;t they?
I mean, this is basically petty theft - electronic shoplifting by another name. Sure, you might think it's 'only a game', but it's a short step from stealing personal info........
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I don't think this a was all that terrible a thing. Here why:
1. The source-code leak shouldn't really have anything to do with any delays. In that, it won't cause any delays that wouldn't have already been caused. From what I understand, the anti-cheating technology is the only thing that could delay it, and that is engineered in such a way that changing an algorithm really changes enough to make the new version un-cheatable.
2. Valve isn't really loosing anything here are they? I mean, they still have thier source-code intact, now just someone else has it too. I'de understand if the source-code got deleted, but this way Valve isn't really hurt by the theft.
3. This won't cause any losses in revenue due to licensing the engine. No one is stupid enough to make a commercial game with a stolen engine, so Valve will still get their precious money.
4. What the source-code could be used for, and I hope it is, is to give freeware and independent games a level playing field when it comes to graphics. I think that, aslong as a game is freeware, the source-code should be available to the them free of charge. FRee-ware games are really incapable of competing with the AAA games when it comes to graphics, and whether you care to admit it or not, everyone thinks graphics count. If its all in the name of strengthening the community by making the engine public domain, then I'm all for it.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Hackers really are dicks, aren;t they?
And all this time I thought you were smart enough to know what the word "hacker" means.
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Hacker - someone who unlawfully gains access to computer systems (assumed remotely).
If you really want to get technical, a malacious hacker (as is the case here) is called a cracker, but thats just semantics.
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Actually a hacker refers to a computer expert, who, in the old days, would "hack" together computers (before the PC). The term evolved until it pointed toward a large culture of programmers, computer scientists and the like. Then it was bastardized by the idiotic public and media.
Anyhow, maybe I can get a HL2 linux port now.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
And all this time I thought you were smart enough to know what the word "hacker" means.
Isn't that somebody that cuts up dead bodies with an axe?
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Originally posted by 01010
Isn't that somebody that cuts up dead bodies with an axe?
Not to be confused with a Slasher, one who cuts up the living with a large blade of some kind.
Anyway, good for the lucky SOB that got in and downloaded it. Valve wouldn't make as big of a deal if they had caught the guy. But they let security flop and look what happens. They deserve it, when you're making the revolutionary sequel to an equaly revolutionary game, security should be you biggest concern.
Speaking of linux, i've had enough of Winholes, how's the linux port coming along, Bob?
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Look at you, cracker, a pathetic creature of meat and bone...
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
And all this time I thought you were smart enough to know what the word "hacker" means.
Frankly, I consider the media-encouraged, mass population definition of a hacker as equally and arguably more valid than what you stated, ZB. for one thing, its used specifically to a set group of people for which there's no other real terms. yes, 'cracker' could be applied, but that's really - IMO - more related to people who modifiy games to be pirated, etc, than thoser who steal information.
And, incidentally, this is from a textbook (Professional Issues in Software Engineering, 3rd Ed., Bott, coleman, Eaton & Rowland );
11.3 Categories of Misuse
In their study of English Criminal Law, the Law Comission highlighted a number of categories of misuse of computers. these were;
A) Computer Fraud
B) unauthorised obtaining on infromation from a computer, which they subcategorized into the following;
- Computer hacking;
- eavesdropping on a computer;
- (etc)
So there you go - a legal definition of hacking as a merthod of gaining unauthorised access to a computer system. And as a 'hacker' is someone who performs the aciton of 'hacking', I think my definition is pretty sound.
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It's a pity that things like this have to happen, the leak could have been internal or hacked, either way, though it is through the actions of unscrupulous people (remember, these are the same guys that are trying to utilise your bandwidth to do their dirty work) However, it may serve the public to a great degree. Imagine what could happen if stand alone games writers had access to stuff above and beyond what is available even on GameDev.Net?
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The point is that companies spend a great deal of money and time to develop cutting edge code, in order to create something that gives them a market edge. If you were in Valves position, having spent all those years making this ****-hot (hopefully) engine, wouldn't you be pissed off if someone was able to basically steal it and give it away for free? If it was a regular occurance, it would help to kill development in the games industry - because there's no point developing something new over time, if it's going to become freely available to competitors*
*yes, you might not think other companies would use this code..... but they could certainly utilise any new tricks or ideas contained within it. And it's not exactly going to be easy for a company to obtian, decompile and check several thousand / million lines of code to check it isn't using stuff they developed....
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I agree with you there Aldo. Source code releases are something that I love to see but not before the game is actually released. That said most companies do wait far too long to release their code.
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Originally posted by Bobboau
I bet this was actualy an intentional leak, given how much of HL's sucsess was based on the mods
I believe this cause how is it that this has not happened with Quake 3 when it was at the time getting the same hype, or even the doom 3 alpha (which wasnt sufficient enough to cause a problem)? i wouldnt be surprised for the simple fact that it gives the programers some time to work with the code. and knowing most programers, it be awhile before they decifer alot of the new code. the HL2 engine is like very deep....
one bad thing is like someone said earlier, everyone gets to steal its code for there own purposes :ick , so its like HL2 wont be too special source wise no more.
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I don't see any good reason for Valve to leak their own code...there's too little benefit, IMO - I mean, how could you really understand the code with respect to modding, if you can;t even play the game yet?
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I considered that possibility too. It was pretty plausible, until I saw Valve's actual reaction... well, IMHO anyway.
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You probably already know by now that the Half-Life 2 source code has been leaked on the net after a concerted month long effort by hackers to infiltrate Valve Software's network. Unfortunately, Valve discovered the suspicious activity on their webmail account too late and the remote installation and execution of a variety of keystroke recorder attacks targeted their webservers. Valve has set up a specific e-mail account, [email protected], for any information regarding these attacks.
We had a chance to access this file, only to find out that is useless to most people. The file is 30 MB and contains typical C++ source files. So far the leaked source code includes the physics engine, the sound system and other pieces of code from other developers, but nothing of the graphics engine. Without the missing resources, this code is useless and only possible competitors of Valve fluent in C++ programming might find it interesting.
www.teamxbox.com
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Valve is hoping that all the mindless zealots out there will grab their pitchforks and torches and drive the hacker out. This will most likely happen, but those of us with a mind for it are noting that Valve is doing nothing to benifet us by turning this guy in. Should Valve offer some kind of incentive, sure, i'd go looking but not until.
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Well, i'd say anything that causes distress to hackers, be it threat of imprisonment or physical injury, is a good thing. After all, they're basically petty thiefs - electronic pickpockets.
The only excpetion being the sort of 'legal' hackers used to investigate illegal wesbites - i.e. to break down paedophile ring, or soforth. But I'd consider them exemp from the somewhat negative description / connotation of 'hacker', anyway.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
So there you go - a legal definition of hacking as a merthod of gaining unauthorised access to a computer system. And as a 'hacker' is someone who performs the aciton of 'hacking', I think my definition is pretty sound.
So you take your definition of hacker from the popular media and the legal system... two sources which historically are utterly clueless when it comes to computer technology.
Let's see what a far more authoritative source has to say:
From the Jargon File
hacker: n.
1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular.
2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
3. A person capable of appreciating hack value.
4. A person who is good at programming quickly.
5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in ‘a Unix hacker’. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.)
6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example.
7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations.
Not that I expect this will change your use of the word hacker. I can only extend my congratulations to you on being such a well-conditioned media sheep.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
So you take your definition of hacker from the popular media and the legal system... two sources which historically are utterly clueless when it comes to computer technology.
B]
you are absolutly correct. the term "hacker" has been distorted far beyond its original meaning.
now most ppl think hackers are destructive, powerful criminals...
and that i should be thrown in jail for the (relativly) harmless things i have done at my Uni's LAN
:rolleyes:
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Although I care very little about this whole issue, something caught my eyes when I was reading a news article about HL2 beta being leaked to public.
From Neowin.net (http://www.neowin.net/)
Originally the source code leaked in a 32meg package last week. The leak spelt the beginning of an investigation into how this could have happened. The result? A flurry of forums across the internet all buzzing about the leak of code to one of the most anticipated games of all time. Most believe the leak of source code is a bad thing and yet the leak of a beta copy of the game isn't.
Today the Half Life 2 Beta leaked across the world onto the internet via IRC channels. The release by "anon" shows it's obvious that the hackers who managed to sucessfully steal source code of the game itself also stole the game itself and who knows what else.
Today there are reports that Half Life 2 has been put back to 2004 due to the source code leaks, although these reports haven't been officially denied by Valve or confirmed. This latest leak of the game itself is sure to hit Valve hard.
...anon... :rolleyes:
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dammit some peoples are stupid doing harm to company:mad:
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Anon? i don't think he would do it. :doubt:
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well, if you mean our favorite flaming idiot, you spell it an0n.
and he's not stupid enough to misspell his own name, i think.
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Originally posted by kasperl
well, if you mean our favorite flaming idiot, you spell it an0n.
and he's not stupid enough to misspell his own name, i think.
[color=66ff00]Actually he spells it 'Tian guan' now...
[/color]
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and he started with Fattony AFAIK.
all details.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
So you take your definition of hacker from the popular media and the legal system... two sources which historically are utterly clueless when it comes to computer technology.
Not that I expect this well change your use of the word hacker. I can only extend my congratulations to you on being such a well-conditioned media sheep.
Hmm...the Jargon file.
Lemme think. Now, should i use a well-known definition in common use, or use a jargon meaning? Which would be the more useful in common usage?
Besides which, my usage & definition is perfectly correct as per the Computer Misuse act. And i took it directly from a Software Enbgineering textbook.
Oh, and you omitted 8;
. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker', `network hacker'. The correct term is cracker.
Which is odd, as it somewhat supports what you just said.... maybe you didn;t want to aknowledge this usage of the term?
And finally, as you know doubt will know, the meaning of words and terms is shaped through the common usage of them anyways.
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Y'know aldo, as a computer-literate individual, I find your enthusiastic embrace of the mass-media bastardization of the word "hacker" to be more than a little bewildering.
I'd say the majority of us around here would qualify as hackers to some degree, yet you continue to blather off gems like "anything that causes distress to hackers ... is a good thing". You might want to save the "common use" definition for speaking to "common people".
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Bicker bicker. :rolleyes:
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Where exactly do you get off on this stuff Zylon?
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Y'know aldo, as a computer-literate individual, I find your enthusiastic embrace of the mass-media bastardization of the word "hacker" to be more than a little bewildering.
I'd say the majority of us around here would qualify as hackers to some degree, yet you continue to blather off gems like "anything that causes distress to hackers ... is a good thing". You might want to save the "common use" definition for speaking to "common people".
iI'd rather encourage a common understanding, rather than the smug, snooty intellectualism that you seem to prefer. I don't see what you're problem is, seeing as you clearly know what i mean, and that you recognise it is a common use definition.
Although, frankly, you're caste-definition between people who are computer literate (a fairly spurious assumption to make anyway) is a bit of a disgrace.
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Look, anyone can laugh at anyone for not knowing something. If you get your rocks off by feeling smarter/better than someone on the internet, you really need to unplug.
You both need to can it.
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Where exactly do you get off on this stuff Zylon?
Here.
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:rolleyes:
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:wtf:
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(http://home.att.net/~clay.h/fs2/warpsmile.gif)
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Looks like there's a playable beta out..
Oh and, allegedly HL2 has beel delayed until April 2003
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Originally posted by Rictor
Looks like there's a playable beta out..
Oh and, allegedly HL2 has beel delayed until April 2003
You mean April 2004? :p
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From the 3dap front page
Half-Life 2 Moves to April 2004
07:06 | by Aramo
Publisher Vivendi Universal Games has delayed the release of Half-Life 2 until April 2004 due to the theft of one-third of the original source code.
Developer Valve last week revealed hackers had infiltrated its Internet-connected development network in recent weeks and obtained a version of the Half-Life 2 code which includes anti-piracy and anti-cheating measures.
This is the second time the highly-anticipated sequel to the 1998 original has been delayed; VU Games last month pushed back the release date from September 30 to "in time for the holiday season." The delay is obviously bad news for VU Games, which suffered a 29 percent fall in revenue and an operating loss of 52 million euros in 2003's first half and was betting on swift holiday sales. (Reuters)
and here's another article:
http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/07/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm?cnn=yes
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iI'd rather encourage a common understanding, rather than the smug, snooty intellectualism that you seem to prefer. I don't see what you're problem is, seeing as you clearly know what i mean, and that you recognise it is a common use definition.
I don't see what the harm is in using a more correct term and why you people resist. The "It's okay 'cause the media says so" mindset just leads to further bastardization of the language and jargon. (Especially if you all go along with the crowd, and become part of the crowd as a result)
Recently, I have a very hard time calling myself a hacker because most interpret it badly. I only use the term in programmer chat channels and among my more technically inclined peers. Quite sad. :blah:
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Originally posted by Ulala
You mean April 2004? :p
I'm starting a pool, I've got $20 USD on Halo 2 hitting the shelves first. Anybody else?
Seriously, they were planning to put it off until then anyway, it's so obvious, how Valve is taking this whole mess in strides. As I said before, that lucky SOB that got whatever chunk Valve is claiming now is more than likely going to be turned in by someone for no reason at all and with no reward but more waiting.
Come off it people, this 'incident' isn't that big of a deal. And if you people must argue over the meaning of a word, pick a good word like "This" or "Is" or "Getting" or "Lame".
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Stolen Half-Life 2 code checks out as the real thing. Security expert calls it a "serious hack" with broad implication for gamers.
While investigating the now-infamous Half-Life 2 hack, Thor Larholm, senior security researcher for security firm PivX Solutions, obtained source code from available resources on the Internet and compiled the game. The program worked and appeared to be Half-Life 2, he said.
While some reports have focused on speculation that the digital thieves wanted a leg up in finding ways to cheat the game, Larholm stressed that the leaked source code could be used by hackers and others to find security holes in the program. This means that people who play the game online may be opening themselves up to attack.
"It is a very serious hack," Larholm stated. "It highlights some loose security policies. I definitely hope they catch these guys."
Valve wasn't the only one affected by the incident.
Components of the source code appear to be from other companies who had licensed the software to Valve, Larholm said. For example, some of the code apparently came from Havok--Dublin, Ireland's creator of software that emulates the physical interaction between in-game characters and their environments.
Steven Collins, chief technology officer for Havok, couldn't confirm whether the stolen code contained the company's software but said his company is investigating the issue. "We are working with Valve," Collins said. "I expect to be in a much more informed position in a few days."
In addition, the code from Valve's game distribution system, Steam, was also obtained online with the Half-Life 2 code, Larholm revealed.
www.gamespot.com
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I feel kind of idiotic for not realising the security impications at the time, actually...........
Incidentally, I read somewhere that the cracker* appeared to be from Russia. Think it was a link off of Bluesnews.com
*can't be arsed arguing for the sake on antagonism anymore
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Originally posted by aldo_14
I feel kind of idiotic for not realising the security impications at the time, actually...........
Incidentally, I read somewhere that the cracker* appeared to be from Russia. Think it was a link off of Bluesnews.com
*can't be arsed arguing for the sake on antagonism anymore
But doesn't that then make you a mindless sheep? Giving in. Tut tut.
Ha ha.
Apparently the HL2 "beta" was a combined effort, somebody managed to get the resources (maps, models etc) and somebody managed to get more of the source code than was originally thought and they compiled it all together to make the "beta".
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*punch*