Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: kasperl on October 05, 2003, 06:30:19 am
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i inted to take up texturing in a few weeks, and i need a few pointers, i already checked karajorma's FAQ, but i couldn't find a lith tutorial. could anyone give me a link to a good tut for texturing fighters and capships?
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You didn't look hard enough :) Check out this (http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/)
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a, thank you
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Aldo's 3 tips for texturing;
1/ Know what you want to do - you need a very clear idea of what the whole map should look like, otherwise you'll get lost. You also need a genral plan - i.e. so you don't end up starting on different days on sperate sections, using a bunch of different colours. For an illustaration of how this can look bad, just look at the brown inset details in the Khepri (in modeldump4), which were all done on different days and hence are all subtly different hues.
2/ Be subtle - overexaggerated shading & thick lines are only useful for cell-shading & cartoon effects
3/ Copy other people - look at what they've done, and try to figure out how they achieved it
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LAYERS!!
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BEVEL!!!!
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Don't like bevels - I don't like anything that the computer does for you.
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Originally posted by karajorma
You didn't look hard enough :) Check out this (http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/)
is that downloadable K ?
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Not my tutorial. Bug IP andrews for it :D
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Originally posted by karajorma
Not my tutorial. Bug IP andrews for it :D
I did a search and found an "andrew" don't think it's the same person though. Does he even post on here ? :)
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Yep.
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He's easier to find on VWBB than here cause he's involved with TBP but he does pop up here now and again. :)
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uhm, do you have to uvmap everything you texture?
and i don't get some parts of that tutorial, since it seems to start with a unwrapped ship to begin with.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Don't like bevels - I don't like anything that the computer does for you.
:doubt: have you ever tryed at least?
personally I like everything that looks good, expecially if it helps you -a lot- to make something more...."realistic"
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If you're making fighters you should learn Lith as it means you can make do with a texture or two for each LOD.
Capships however don't tend to appear in groups of 20 so you can afford to put more textures on them. That means that although Lith can make nice looking capships it isn't a requirement.
For caps you can simply pick a texture and paint it onto the model in Truespace. Since I have very little idea what I'm doing in PSP that makes it much easier for me to map that way.
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Originally posted by KARMA
:doubt: have you ever tryed at least?
personally I like everything that looks good, expecially if it helps you -a lot- to make something more...."realistic"
Yep. Prefer to do it by hand - especially as my maps often have ship ares reversed (flipped) to get the best fit, and that means I ccan;t use any sort of 'global' effect on them, as it's mean the sort of light-side of hullplates would very from part-to-part. Whilst I obviously works a treat for the star wars stuff you're doing, I don;t think the effect is anywhere near subtle enough for my style of mapping.
Plus i don't like to use layers.
And yeah, you need a UVMap to add a texture, or the engine doesn;t know how to display that texture.... infact, if you have an untextured, un-uved object, Fs treats it (and renders it) as partially transprent for some reason.
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first of all, let me say that I would have really big problems choosing who's the best texturer between me, you, venom or tomcat, thought we have completely different styles.
But considering that you already are an excellent texture artist, I always feel a bit ... :mad2: ... when you say you don't use layers or other important tools...you obviously already achieve an astonishing level without them...so...what could you do with a more extended use of them?
I know that many photoshop options are there mostly to speed up things rather than obtaining better results but, in my opinion, they still would probably let you go beyond your actual level.
I don't say you should change your style (wich you are more comfortable with, and that you find more suitable for your objectives), I just say that it could be enriched.
A stupid example: I know at least 4 or 5 different methods to make a ruined painted line like this one: (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fs2sw/various/red.jpg)
but from my experience the best quality result (and the fastest one too) can be obtained only using at least 2 different layers and a layer mask. You can do almost the same with only handdrawing on a sinlge layer, but why you should if there is another way better and faster?
About the bevel, yes you are right, I had too the problem of wrong light direction with flipped faces, sometimes you can use some strategies to avoid or reduce it, some other times you have to give up the simmetry (and make two versions of the reversed areas), but consider also that human eyes, when there are illusions (and bevel is an illusion) will render the illusion coherently with the contest: this mean that often, althought the light is wrong, observers will have to force themselves to see a bevel direction coherent with the light instead of with the other parts, althought I admit it is better to avoid those situations.
Example: in this image the light direction of the bevel is a bit screwed (I already changed it a little), nonetheless you have to force yourself to view the opposite bevel on the flipped faces. (http://members.fortunecity.com/aranbanjo/wip.jpg)
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I find myself useing embose a lot more than I used to
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Originally posted by KARMA
first of all, let me say that I would have really big problems choosing who's the best texturer between me, you, venom or tomcat, thought we have completely different styles.
But considering that you already are an excellent texture artist, I always feel a bit ... :mad2: ... when you say you don't use layers or other important tools...you obviously already achieve an astonishing level without them...so...what could you do with a more extended use of them?
I know that many photoshop options are there mostly to speed up things rather than obtaining better results but, in my opinion, they still would probably let you go beyond your actual level.
I don't say you should change your style (wich you are more comfortable with, and that you find more suitable for your objectives), I just say that it could be enriched.
A stupid example: I know at least 4 or 5 different methods to make a ruined painted line like this one: http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/fs2sw/various/red.jpg
but from my experience the best quality result (and the fastest one too) can be obtained only using at least 2 different layers and a layer mask. You can do almost the same with only handdrawing on a sinlge layer, but why you should if there is another way better and faster?
About the bevel, yes you are right, I had too the problem of wrong light direction with flipped faces, sometimes you can use some strategies to avoid or reduce it, some other times you have to give up the simmetry (and make two versions of the reversed areas), but consider also that human eyes, when there are illusions (and bevel is an illusion) will render the illusion coherently with the contest: this mean that often, althought the light is wrong, observers will have to force themselves to see a bevel direction coherent with the light instead of with the other parts, althought I admit it is better to avoid those situations.
Example: in this image the light direction of the bevel is a bit screwed (I already changed it a little), nonetheless you have to force yourself to view the opposite bevel on the flipped faces. http://members.fortunecity.com/aranbanjo/wip.jpg
Well, i use bitmaps and view the model in 3dexploration when I work on it, so flattening them every time i want to check my progress is a bit of a pain in the tits. I do occasionally use layers, admitttedly - for block jobs on creating decals or sometimes for damage effects (very rarely)... but I'm just more comfortable working on a straight per-pixel level.
Also, it's more transferable if i do it by hand.... it means i can use other programs irrespective of any difference in the effects plugins. the only thing I use in Photoshop - and that's very rarely at very low levels - is the Noise plugin.
Anyways, it's not the method, it's the end result that counts. I mean, i'm not even an artist by nature or training, so everything I do is what I've taught myself and thus what I'm comfortable with.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Well, i use bitmaps and view the model in 3dexploration when I work on it, so flattening them every time i want to check my progress is a bit of a pain in the tits.
well I work about in the same way, except for I use lithunwrap so I can check results reloading the maps and maybe change the uvmaps in the same environment, so I can tell you that you just don't need to flatten images always (except at the end when you save the 256colour pcx), just save as bmp and the current aspect of your canvas will be saved as a *.bmp
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I use the same method as you do Aldo, and PSP auto flattens for me - apparently as a part of the properties of the bmp format. I'd always assumed every proggy would do that...
Meh. Anyway, Kaperl, what program are you planning to use?
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dunno, i've got the following somewhat working:
TS5.1
3ds Max, this one will need some "convincing" to work.
Lightwave, same as Max.
LithUnwrap, it works, but i can't work with it.
PSP7, i think this one is actually legal, i think. i can also use it pretty well.
PS7, well, it works, but i can't work with it
3d Exploration, i like this one, a lot.
and some other stuff, anything you guys tell me is usefull.
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Originally posted by kasperl
uhm, do you have to uvmap everything you texture?
Yes, unless:
a) You know someone else who will do it for you.
b) You don't mind spending time producing lovely textures which when applied to your ship look like vomit.
Originally posted by kasperl
i don't get some parts of that tutorial, since it seems to start with a unwrapped ship to begin with.
It's a UV mapping tutorial. I can't texture for ****. I know. My mate Dave offered me really good **** if I could do it. Alas I have all the artistic talent of a colour blind hedgehog, in a bag.
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Why would you want to texture for ****? Try texturing for toffees or something.
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Something I wrote some time ago. (http://www.swooh.com/peon/Angelo/Downloads/UVTutorial.exe) Could be usefull. It's for MAX. erm... check the readme file.