Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: GT-Keravnos on October 12, 2003, 11:22:20 pm
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http://www.luft46.com/
Go in there, check things out, get inspired, come back, render-texture-pof 'em and post them here for us to see.
Easy as 1-2-3.
Right?
:D ;7
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You might want to check this design and tell me what it reminds you off...
http://www.luft46.com/junkers/jugap.html
Well, possibly the worst kept secret (for those that follow those things) is that a lot of US designs were based on WW2 german research.
B2 on the Gotha 229 and other flying wings Luftwaffe had in the production line
and the famous warthog on the design you need to click on to go and see.
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Well considering the extensive pillaging of scientists, technology and patents of Germany by the US after the war, that's not at all surprising. One need only look at the first super-sonic jet which the Americans copied/stole from the British to see the tactics employed and the subsequent US technological edge.
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I thought this was a FS Modding forum. I didnt realize that I had signed up for a conspiracy theorist's forum.
Maybe we should try to remember that it was the Yanks that built and flew the first fixed wing powered aircraft in the first place, and that the flying wing concept existed well before German scientists were working on it.
Or perhaps FS2 is a better subject?
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But didn't a Frenchman actually come up with the principles that enabled a fixed wing aircraft to be built?
Anyways, the Germans had all sorts of wierd stuff under development in their underground factories.... I think most of the stuff the allies found there remains classified.
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Guys, guys,
I just wanted to inspire some modders out there, since I suck at it. (modding that is). No hidden agenda, sorry :)
Other "worse kept" is just, well, remarks, I don't think I said or hinted otherwise. As for the fixed wing, the only country that has them or is going to have them is the US. Besides, we are getting away from giving those magnificent planes the awe they deserve.
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Fixed wing aircraft means standard aeroplane. You're thinking of FLYING wing( or was that flying body?) aircraft, which in today's world = B2 Spirit stealth bomber.
Maybe someone could make a WW2 in space deal? I dunno......
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It's flying body ;)
And the Wright Brothers thought of everything on their own, no Frenchman. They studied everything by themselves and drew their own designs. They even did some prototyping on an aircraft that used flexible wings, like a bird. ;)
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No no no! Delete that link quick, or everyone will find out where I nicked all my concepts from!
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The Wright borthers' innovation was less in the airframe of their planes than in the way they powered them... gliders were already fairly widely known at the time so the basic fixed-wing lift principles were already in place. It was the engine and propellor system that was finally settled on that was a first, and the Wright brothers came up with that entirely on their own. It has been argued that a frenchman actually achieved powered flight first, but he did it independently and only beat the Wrights by a year at most (at the time, news wouldn't even travel that fast either).
And actually it's "Flying Wing" or "Lift Body" IIRC. The B2 is hardly the first (though it's the first to be true stealth). And yes, the allies did use a lot of captured weapons research in the years following World War II, that is widely known and hardly suprising. The Germans had the ingenuity to come up with the designs, but by the time the war was nearing its conclusion they did not have the infastructure to devote to making untested designs. And besides, that's how war works. The Soviets took an American B-something (I want to say it was a B-29) and reverse-engineered it just after WWII, and put it on the production line as an "Original Soviet Design" despite the fact that they had barely changed the paint job from the original model.
A lot of those designs are pretty cool, I must say. Not Freespacy, but cool.
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Originally posted by StratComm
Not Freespacy, but cool.
That's where the endo/exoatmospheric gubbinz comes in... got S:AAB (www.geezersoft.co.uk)? ;7
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Ahhh, the Gotha 229. My favourite aircraft of all time alongside the ME 262 and the ME 163. The Germans may have had unpleasent intent at that time - but their research and development division did some truly ground breaking work in aircraft. Not exactly FS2 model style but certainly great fun to play with.
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actually, those pesky Ruskies nicked just about everythin' they could and reverse engineered them. Strange, when they made some great fighters etc (Fulcrum, Foxbat etc)
hey DG, what's that music you've got playing on your site ?:D
EDIT: oh, just noticed the little Johnny Cash picture.
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I'm shocked that you even had to ask
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Originally posted by magatsu1
actually, those pesky Ruskies nicked just about everythin' they could and reverse engineered them. Strange, when they made some great fighters etc (Fulcrum, Foxbat etc)
Yeah but the best theft has to be the TU-144. Who did they think they were kidding with this (http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=128) :lol:
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Originally posted by StratComm
The Wright borthers' innovation was less in the airframe of their planes than in the way they powered them... gliders were already fairly widely known at the time so the basic fixed-wing lift principles were already in place. It was the engine and propellor system that was finally settled on that was a first, and the Wright brothers came up with that entirely on their own. It has been argued that a frenchman actually achieved powered flight first, but he did it independently and only beat the Wrights by a year at most (at the time, news wouldn't even travel that fast either).
Actually, the first confirmed and public flight of an airplane was by a Brazilian, Santos Dumont, who lived in Paris at the time.
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another russike theft
(http://tomcat.fnet.cz/b1_2.jpg)
B1 Lancer
(http://mustangman5.netfirms.com/tu160rightbank.jpg)
TU 160 Blackjack
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Originally posted by karajorma
Yeah but the best theft has to be the TU-144. Who did they think they were kidding with this (http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=128) :lol:
:lol:
I once saw the Sukhoi Su-27. It looks almost exactly like an F-15, which I've heard it pretty much is.
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Yeah but the problem with the american planes is you can't give the russian variants names like Koncordski :D
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Yeah, they really ripped off the XB-70 as well when they designed the 144 (the canards and the cockpit)
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LOL Heck, if a design works, why change it? ;) It's not as if it's an aesthetics contest.
Flipside :D
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Lets dispell some rumors.
1) Flying wings were in development with various companies both in the US and in Germany before the war started. Although the Germans made significant strides, the concept that one country borrowed the idea from the other doesn't entirely ring true. Collaboration of general principles long before the war started may be true...but in this instance US technology didn't gain anything from German flying wings.
The V-2 rockets and whatnot were intently studied by both Russians and Americans and that did eventually lead to the Apollo missions.
2) It'd be very hard to say that the F-15 and the Su-27 and its varients were copies of each other (the 27 being a copy of the 15 is the implication). If you look at the development history of the aircraft its much easier to notice that the Su-27's evolution from drawingboard to finished product borrowed only the concept of heavy and light fighter from the Americans (the MiG-29 being the light and the Su-27 being the heavy countering the light F-16 and the heavy F-15). Undoubtedly, F-15 designs were influenced just as much by the MiG-25 as the Su-27 was influenced by the F-15. In terms of performance, the Su-27 is much (much!) more manuverable while the F-15 is faster. Hardly a copy.
3) The B-29 was indeed copied under orders from Stalin. I think it was called the Tu-4. It was copied, rivet for rivet, on the B-29's design using parts that had been captured and aquired during the war (ie. crashed wrecks).
So there :)
Point overall being that most designs, although influenced by competing designs, are not generally exact copies (except in the Tu-4/B-29 case). Most of the time, the concepts are either the correct ones and/or are moderatly influenced because of the competing design.
The F-86 Sabre is not a copy of the MiG-15 but when swept wings proved useful on the MiG, efforts were made to ensure that the Sabre would have that too.
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Originally posted by StratComm
The Wright borthers' innovation was less in the airframe of their planes than in the way they powered them... gliders were already fairly widely known at the time so the basic fixed-wing lift principles were already in place. It was the engine and propellor system that was finally settled on that was a first, and the Wright brothers came up with that entirely on their own. It has been argued that a frenchman actually achieved powered flight first, but he did it independently and only beat the Wrights by a year at most (at the time, news wouldn't even travel that fast either).
Actually, Dumont's plane never got off the ground that year. Why? Because he never figured out the other groundbreaking thing those Yanks did that you left out: CONTROL. Yeah, gliders were around. The Wrights flew many of them for years, but you could never truly control them. The Wrights invented the rudder, the elevator, and wing-warping that later lead to the airlon. All these things provided control in pitch, roll, and yaw that never existed before. The propellers they *handmade* were truly revolutionary, as was the light engine, but they did much more than that. They invented the entire package, and without any one piece of it, you're goin nowhere fast.
Dumont flew the next year after the Wright's released their findings. It's a matter of record at the International Aviation Archives in Brussels.
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The fun thing about the Tu-160 Blackjack is that it's a rip-off of the B-1 but is the size of a B-52. It's currently being borrowed by NASA for research in to sustained mach 2 flight :nod:
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The Horten IX flying wing fighter is not included. It's a bit strange though, since the first flying wing design that was halfway close to completiton (a prototype was in construction, so it's closer to completiotion than 99% of the other stuff on luft46). This fighter looked particularly cool, since all the parts were to be integrated into the wing structure, nothing of the parts sticked outwards, destrying the lines of the craft.
The Nazis were evil, but their fighters looked cool nonetheless.
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Tell you what, have a link to X-Plane.org (www.x-plane.org). There's many a weird Nazi jet to be had :nod: