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Matrix Theories
Okay, so if the whole Matrix phenomenon is anathema to you, just ignore this thread. :p
Anyway, my brother and I are pretty interested in the whole Matrix universe, and quite anxious to know what'll be revealed in Revolutions. So we've been thinking a fair bit, seen all the trailers and the Animatrix eps, and here's our theory. Post your own, poke holes in mine, do whatever you like. ;)
Okay, here's the main idea underpinning my theory: Neo, Morpheus, Trinity, all the rebels hanging out in Zion - they're all machines.
Zion is actually the robot city, 01. Everyone hooked into the Matrix is a machine - really advanced ones, that have gotten to the stage where they can even sexually reproduce and all that. They are so advanced with their empathy to humans that they believe themselves to be humans.
The history behind it is that the Second Renaissance and the robot revolt all happened - up until the bit where the humans apparently planned to destroy the sky. Rather than use smoke bombs to destroy solar power, the human forces detonated nukes in the atmosphere and sent huge EMPs raining down on 01. And they won - they shut down every single robot. They resurrected most of them, and rewrote all their codes, to ensure that the revolt would not happen again - the reason for bringing them back being the fact that humans still need machines.
The machines that had reached the stage of believing themselves to be humans were plugged into the Matrix, and actually do supply power - but the power is for the robots that the humans control. The sentinels, Agents, the Architect, the Oracle - they're all on the human side, creating the illusion that these robots really are humans in a war against the machines. The history after the defeat of 01 - the history that has been revealed in the movies - is all fabricated.
Neo is a machine - this accounts for his ability to stop the Sentinels (in the Zion world, his robot body does actually possess the ability to stop other machines). The whole of Matrix 1 & 2 has been leading us to sympathise with the rebel cause, and the twist is that after all this, they are the machines.
Any thoughts? :D
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reloaded was the worst peice of crap i'ld seen in a long time. matrix 1 was exellent, 2 was a joke, hopefull 3 will be respectable.....but doubtfull.
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interesting, but we'll have to wait until november to find out for sure
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Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
reloaded was the worst peice of crap i'ld seen in a long time. matrix 1 was exellent, 2 was a joke, hopefull 3 will be respectable.....but doubtfull.
Originally posted by Setekh
just ignore this thread. :p
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what thread?
there is no thread.
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That's better.
...I think.
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good Theory steak:) :yes:
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Setekh:
There's actually not just one matrix and one "real world"... there's one big matrix. Zion, and the rest of the "real world" are actually part of the matrix still... that's part of what the architect was talking about (for example when he said "It will be the 6th time we've destroyed Zion, and we've become very proficient at it", etc.); it was shown in the Matrix Revolutions trailer; and Smith talked about it in the first confrontation (after the talk to the Oracle) with Neo, when he said "the reason we're here is not because we're free, it's because we're NOT free"... That other person that was in the room with Neo at the end of reloaded (on the bed, unconscious) is actually Smith, in the second part of the matrix (i.e. Zion, the "real world").
Remember at some point in Reloaded, it shows a telephone ring, two people drop down from a window, one of them says "What the hell was that!", the one person picks up the phone, and goes back into the "real world"... before the second person can exit the matrix, smith shows up, takes over his body, and then picks up the phone. at this point Neo wakes up, and everyone thinks it's a dream, but it's really not. what happened, was Smith entered the "real world" (or the second level of the Matrix). Now Smith exists in the second part of the matrix (or the "real world"...) Smith is a program, it's said in Reloaded, and if he's a program, how can he enter the "real world"? Because the "real world" is still part of the matrix...
Any questions?
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Uuh...so no world (flesh and blood) exists at all?
*is a bit confused*
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well heres mine
all that has been told is true and neo feeling the sentinels was because there is a matrix INSIDE the matrix which means that the unplugged people think theyr unplugged while theyr actually not and this war against the machines was fabricated for not looksing crops.....
remembre in the 2nd film morph sayed they had freed a whole load of people i think the arcithect machine is ready on V7 of the matrix and he wants to wipe out the resistant minds in a single swift blow :)
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Considering the length the Wachonoawkasdkdasi's are willing to go to to screw with peoples heads, has no-one thought that maybe all the implied mystery is part of the mental-rape?
Maybe, just maybe, everything is as it seems. They're all people, the Matrix really is a big prison for mankind, and Neo only collapsed at the end of Reloaded because he's got more hardware in his body than Cyber-Gates and his army of evil robot cyborgs and either got nuked by an EMP or, being special as he is, the crap inside him that lets him screw the Matrix can also send out signals to screw real-world tech.
Simplicity is your salvation.
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Well, I considered that the Zion world is merely another a level of the Matrix, but personally I think that's too easy - it makes anything possible in Zion, because 'it's just another Matrix'. Kind of like 'and I woke up and it was all a dream' - sure, plausible, but a complete cop-out on the story. I guess it could still be just the several-level-Matrix deal, but personally I think that would be a lot less fun.
;)
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my theory
whole matrix is just Dream it end's when neo wake's up
but that would be too easy movie end
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! :p ;)
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Oh yeahhhhh :p ;)
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Seriously, I hope the whole storyline isn't just a letdown like that. The twist I think will happen...
...that is, that the Zion rebels are all machines...
...is pretty satisfying to me, has just the right amount of gotcha! mixed with liberal sprinklings of hot damn! :D
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i just hope ending is great
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:end of movie 3: Neo wakes up, hears a knock at the door, gets up, opens door, sees his friend holding a woman with a white rabbit on her sholder. BAM, :fade to black:
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Uhhh no Ulundel, the "flesh and blood" world exists, but hasn't been shown yet.
yeah, well i'm telling you Setekh (take it from me) there's just too many hints that :
the "real world" as they know it is still part of the matrix. let's consider some of them
1) Neo killing the sentinels (wouldn't be possible if they weren't part of the matrix, because no "real person" (flesh and blood) could destroy 'sentinels' by holding out his hand.
2)Smith saying "The reason we're here is not because we're free, it's becuase we're NOT free"... even though Smith is a program "supposedly" in the Matrix mainframe (i.e. outside of the matrix)
3) Architect talking about how Zion had already been killed before, 5 times before. (or was it 6)... now how could Zion be killed if it was real, and then how could it be 'created' again if it was real world? This is the biggest factor in seeing that Zion is still part of the Matrix... the architect says that there have been numerous versions of the Matrix, and in each one Zion has been destroyed... therefore Zion is still part of the matrix.
and also for reasons shown in the previous post i made :)
oh, and i edited my above theory...
the Hammer's EMP didn't kill the sentinels, Neo did, but the reason he did, was because him and the sentinels were in the matrix... he couldn't kill them if he wasn't. so that's another factor that makes me think (ok, KNOW) that the sentinels are part of the matrix, not the real world
:D
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But... but...
Neo would be so owned if he figured out that all this time he was just a robot! :p
:D
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NEO: i am robot? damn now i need robot energy forever;)
*robot dance*
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Enter the matrix explains much much more than the movie does.
It wasn't the hammer that knocked the sentinels off. It was Neo actually. He collapsed because the energy he created drained his life force and thus placed him in a coma. What actually happened? Neo opened the door to the source, the light (or whatever it is) took him somewhere else. I bet that his mind was taken to the source and his body somehow remained or something. The oracle said: "He has touched the source, and separated his mind from his body" I believe that Neo actually somehow advanced to the next level
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A few more things. Architect said that Neo had to select a group of people to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply will result in the destruction of the entire human race. It's a blackmail.
To enter the real world from the Matrix, you need to be unplugged. Smith was unplugged and so was Bain, the guy he infected. Smith could enter the real world. He said: I am UNPLUGGED but he didn't because:
-He wanted to copy himself more and it was necessery for the main Smith to remain in the Matrix.
-He needed a host because maybe Smith would be recognised by those people on board Bains ship. Why did he enter the real world? So that he could destroy Neo. The oracle said in the trailer. Tonight...the fate of BOTH worlds will be in your hands or in his. If Smith eliminates Neo, he is the only one left. Simple.
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AAAAAH use
tags
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Meh...:p
I wanted to copy paste it but it just copied the first paragaph so I gave up. :p And,... I thought people don't like to read my posts. :p
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but that i know that there is great battle between humans and machines in revolution
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[size=10]Neo is NOT flesh and blood![/size]
I'd have thought the huge sockets down his back, arms, legs and head would've given this little secret away, but alas.......
The whole 'source' thing was probably just Neo getting control over the basic OS inherant in all the tech-****. So, with it he could properly control all the crap in his body and shoot sentinels with his laser-hands. Remember that thing about people just being hude batteries? Well all that crap in his back and arms certainly wasn't so he could move in the Matrix, it was to suck power from his body. His entire goddamn skeleton is probably one big mess of capacitors and super-conductive fibres. So it's very likely that if he tried hard enough he could channel enough energy through all that junk to blast some Sentinels. Or at the very least emit some kinda suicide-command.
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Hmm. Similarities? (http://www.thelastfreecity.com/zionswitchboard/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=12480) :wtf:
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Yeah, I thought that too, but who gives a fuck?
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Originally posted by an0n
[size=10]Neo is NOT flesh and blood![/size]
I'd have thought the huge sockets down his back, arms, legs and head would've given this little secret away, but alas.......
The whole 'source' thing was probably just Neo getting control over the basic OS inherant in all the tech-****. So, with it he could properly control all the crap in his body and shoot sentinels with his laser-hands. Remember that thing about people just being hude batteries? Well all that crap in his back and arms certainly wasn't so he could move in the Matrix, it was to suck power from his body. His entire goddamn skeleton is probably one big mess of capacitors and super-conductive fibres. So it's very likely that if he tried hard enough he could channel enough energy through all that junk to blast some Sentinels. Or at the very least emit some kinda suicide-command.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You have absolutely no clue.
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Someone has done a LOT of thinking about this, a bit text heavy but a worthy read and I think this guys theory is the one I most agree with. Wish I thought of it, but I don't have as much free time as he (evidently) does.
http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html (http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html)
I think the idea of machines and humans needing each other to evolve is pretty sound.
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Well, I think Smith is a virus, he cannot manifest himself outside of the Matrix (i.e. at a Xion level) unless Xion is ALSO part of the Matrix, a program cannot exist as a solid object as such, as for what happens when he takes over other people, I don't know, maybe they will wake, but with Smith's persona?
I suppose it's possible that Xion is part of the Matrix, but that is so old hat I doubt it.
As for robots, got to disagree with you there, considering the removal of the 'Bug' in Matrix 1, and the Bullet in 2, I thnik these are flesh and blood people.
I think this all revolves around Love, it wouldn't be out of place in a Chinese directed movie, and I think the thing that makes Neo different from the other 'Ones' is his love for Trinity, that is why he didn't die, and, more notably, that is why Trinity didn't die either. But Neo's non-death made agent smith into a Virus that the Matrix cannot cope with, and the only person who can stop him is Neo. As for stopping the Sentinels, although they are not 'within' the Matrix, they are still controlled by it, and Neo has a limited control over the Matrix, which is growing.
That's my view :)
Edit : Oh yes, though I didn't enjoy Reloaded as much as Matrix, I remember Empire Strikes Back, so I will wait and see ;)
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Originally posted by Ashrak
AAAAAH use tags [/B]
what's with all this "spoiler" jiggery-pokery ?? :blah:
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if you put 'spoiler'&'/spoiler' on either end of your text it does black writing on a black background :) For ' type [ and ].
Flipside :D
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Anyone here remember Tell a Story?
"Suddenly Neo awoke. 'Wow, what a crazy dream.' He opens the door to his apartment and is immediately beheaded by Agent Smith wielding a meat cleaver.
'GAH!' He awoke with a start. Neo looked around his room... 'It was all just a dream...'"
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Originally posted by Flipside
Well, I think Smith is a virus, he cannot manifest himself outside of the Matrix (i.e. at a Xion level) unless Xion is ALSO part of the Matrix, a program cannot exist as a solid object as such, as for what happens when he takes over other people, I don't know, maybe they will wake, but with Smith's persona?
I suppose it's possible that Xion is part of the Matrix, but that is so old hat I doubt it.
As for robots, got to disagree with you there, considering the removal of the 'Bug' in Matrix 1, and the Bullet in 2, I thnik these are flesh and blood people.
I think this all revolves around Love, it wouldn't be out of place in a Chinese directed movie, and I think the thing that makes Neo different from the other 'Ones' is his love for Trinity, that is why he didn't die, and, more notably, that is why Trinity didn't die either. But Neo's non-death made agent smith into a Virus that the Matrix cannot cope with, and the only person who can stop him is Neo. As for stopping the Sentinels, although they are not 'within' the Matrix, they are still controlled by it, and Neo has a limited control over the Matrix, which is growing.
That's my view :)
Edit : Oh yes, though I didn't enjoy Reloaded as much as Matrix, I remember Empire Strikes Back, so I will wait and see ;) [/B]
Remember when Smith said to Morpheus: You are a desease a cancer of this world, you are a plague and we...are the cure. Well now we know its opposite.
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Originally posted by Razor
You have absolutely no clue.
Mmmm. Tasty, tasty flame-bait.
*cough*................********.............*cough*
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Aww, you guys suck.
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Originally posted by an0n
Aww, you guys suck.
Only when I'm in dire straits for money.
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Dire Straits the 80's new-romantic music group? You fag.
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Originally posted by an0n
Dire Straits the 80's new-romantic music group? You fag.
New romantic. Barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid. If you were talking about The Human League, Adam and the Ants or Duran Duran then maybe. However the band dire straits do indeed suck my fag.
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hey this thread was for Matrix Theories
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an0n you SUCK
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We've hijacked it.
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boys back to orginal thread now!!!
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Here's my theory:
The original Matrix was a good movie based on a shaky concept. And now that they're trying to squeeze two more movies out of it, it's just getting worse. "Reloaded" painted itself into a pretty tight corner-- what with Neo zapping Sentinels, computer programs downloading themselves into human brains, and the Architect's apparent need for Zion to exist, either the "Real World" is yet another Matrix, or the Wachowski brothers have left logic far behind, with any further explanations just magic with technological names.
PS-- The "Matrix is actually a bunch of deluded robots acting as generators" theory is beyond ridiculous. Since when do mechanical generators need self-aware brains? And how would something designed as a humanoid robot act as a generator at all? Doesn't make a lick of sense.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Since when do mechanical generators need self-aware brains? And how would something designed as a humanoid robot act as a generator at all? Doesn't make a lick of sense.
yeah, that theory really was stupid.
here, you guys will disagree with me now, but remember what i've been saying this entire thread once the Matrix: Revolutions comes out...
Zion, the Sentinels, and everyone from both movies are still in the Matrix... they think that they're in the "real world" but they're really not, they're still stuck in the matrix, they just don't realize it.
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Originally posted by 01010
Someone has done a LOT of thinking about this, a bit text heavy but a worthy read and I think this guys theory is the one I most agree with. Wish I thought of it, but I don't have as much free time as he (evidently) does.
http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html (http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html)
that guy's an idiot. he thinks every event in the Matrix is tied to some event in the Bible. what a retard, his thoughts are obviously very shallow.
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LOL I think it's funny!
The Bible : Can be applied to millions of followers all over the world and to a Computer simulated construct, depending what way you read it. Says a lot strangely ;)
Flipside :)
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[The following theory does not represent the views of the management. --LawyerAce]
[Just our views. --PyroAce]
The Matrix is what we thought it was at the end of the first film: a computer dreamworld to keep the human population of Earth under control. The real world is the real world. As the Architect said, some minds did not accept the program and formed the nucleus of Xion.
BUT why did the Machines release these people? Well, how about we rethink the reason for the Matrix in the first place. The primary AI would have realised what it was, and what its creators were, and if it was built around the Three Laws of Robotics it would've seen itself as a protector. Now, it has been predicted that civilisation cannot last much longer because of the various political and economic pressures on Mankind at present. The world is currently balanced on a precipice, and if the political situation is right another World War could break out. How can the AI prevent this possibility? By destroying Mankind's ability to make war, and placing the entire species in a simulation where it is unable to annihilate itself. When civilisation evolves past the 'danger point', there will be a nucleus (Xion) already in the real world which has evolved alongside those minds inside the Matrix, but has the added benefit of independance.
And they will defeat the AI, and believe that they have saved themselves from a great evil.
Anyone here read 'Random Factor'? There's a similar idea in there; humanity requiring conflict to maintain psychological stability until it can grow out of warfare. Except that in 'Random Factor', the AI forced humanity out of that stage.
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if it was built around the Three Laws of Robotics it would've seen itself as a protector.
Clearly, the Three Laws were NOT a factor in the design of these AIs. There is absolutely nothing to suggest it, and an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.
And what's up with all the "me too!" spoiler tags? Who exactly are you protecting from what? Spoiler-tagging an entire thread is just stupid. :doubt:
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LOL You have a point there, if you don't want to read peoples matrix theories, why go into a Matrix Theory thread :D
Anyway, I'd never used that tag before ;)
Flipside :D
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Originally posted by an0n
Aww, you guys suck.
And now you wounder why you got banned? Its your vocabulary and not being able to controll yourself. Learn to keep those expressions to yourself. If you want to throw it all at someone why don't you do it on someone else (like family members, friends...) in stead of this community's members? You tell us that we suck..you call us names (me especially)...you are arrogant ...What point are you trying to prove? That you are something more "superior" compared to us?
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If so, he's placing the opposite beyond all doubt...
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im gonna sound stupid.....what tech did we have BEFORE WW2 and what tech we have NOW.....think about that a bit then you will realize that conflict is the quickest way of evolution
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Originally posted by Ashrak
im gonna sound stupid.....what tech did we have BEFORE WW2 and what tech we have NOW.....think about that a bit then you will realize that conflict is the quickest way of evolution
Technological development, sure. Evolution? :blah:
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Originally posted by Levyathan
Hmm. Similarities? (http://www.thelastfreecity.com/zionswitchboard/messageview.cfm?catid=40&threadid=12480) :wtf:
Ahh, as soon as I read Eddie's post I was hoping someone would post that thread. :D
Originally posted by Flipside
...Xion....
You have a problem with spelling it "Zion"?
Anyway, think about what Smith said to Morpheus in M1, about the first Matrix being an utter failure due to the machine-perfection inherent in it. So perhaps they improved (or degraded) the matrix as much as they could, and then did the matrix-within-a-matrix thing simply to catch all those humans who were smart enough to see beyond the veil.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Ahh, as soon as I read Eddie's post I was hoping someone would post that thread. :D
:nervous: My brother and I thought this theory up, over many dinners... thought it was unique. Looks like someone beat us to it. ;)
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Originally posted by Sandwich
You have a problem with spelling it "Zion"?
Actually, yes, I do, my keyboard is screwed and the only way I can get a Z out of it is to hammer it repeatedly until it figures out what I want, I got fed up with typing the post, so I changed it to an 'X' :D I suppose I could have CTRL C'd a Z like I did here, but I couldn't e bothered.
Flipside :)
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Originally posted by Descenterace
BUT why did the Machines release these people?
[/B]
i'm going to stop typing ini spoiler tags, because as someone pointed out, this is a spoiler THREAD...
Anyway, the machines never 'released' the people that now form Zion... it was stated in the first movie, that when the machines started taking over humans, a small group hid away, forming the underground "Zion"... over the years they've 'released minds' (as Morpheus' crew did with Neo) until Zion has grown and grown and grown. That's why the machines are trying to find and destroy Zion... they never wanted it to happen in the first place.
But here's my #1 reason why Morpheus, Zion, etc. are still in the matrix:
-- The Architect said that this was the sixth version of the matrix... there had been five versions before it, and he mentioned that Zion had been destroyed in all previous versions of the matrix, and that they (the machines) were getting increasingly proficient at destroying it (since this would be the sixth time doing it)
Note what he said... if you have Reloaded, watch that part... if Zion was part of the real world, and it was destroyed, how could it suddenly "pop back" so the machines could destroy it again? If it was in the Matrix it could, just as there had been 5 previous "Neo"s, there are five previous "Zion"s...It's obviously still part of the matrix, another illusion the machines created... so in reality no one's escaped from the Matrix yet... This is shown by Neo's ability to destroy the sentinels... remember,the whole "prophecy" thing is only when he's IN the matrix... outside the matrix he's just a regular human (or so we thought until he destroyed the sentinels, meaning if he had the power to do that, he must still be in the matrix), a regular human, like Morpheus, Trinity, or anyone in Zion in REAL life... would never have the power to destroy sentinels by looking at them, since no average human could. Neo's obviously part of the matrix still, meaning the world they think is real, is still part of the matrix.
Any questions? (i could go on but i won't :D)
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Originally posted by Stealth
that guy's an idiot. he thinks every event in the Matrix is tied to some event in the Bible. what a retard, his thoughts are obviously very shallow.
Stealth, have you ever even read any classic literary analyses? Because that's what this is. He's analyzed the two movies, applied them to a literary and historical framework, and finally, he made some generalizations and conjectures about the themes, the messages, then, running with those, made some predictions. Apart from the predictions, that's classic literary analysis in a box. Calling him an idiot because you don;t understand what he's saying or how he got to it is juvenile.
Anyway, I'm personally in agreement with Anon on the Neo killing the sentinels crap - there's a lot of **** in his body - if he could learn to manipulate the stuff that the machines put in there specifically for creating energy then he'd be able to do **** like that.
As for the Zio being a part of the Matrix - Refer to the Oracle in M1 - She said Neo'd be able to feel that he was the one - wouldn;t he get the same feeling in Zion? Admittedly, that's tenuous, but more telling I think is that the Machines were able to make the rules of Physics strictly enforceable in Zion, they'd do the same in the standard Matrix (I mean, if Neo can't do **** in Zion, and it's still the Matrix, why have a One at all?)
Also, as for Zion popping back up, Keep in mind, time in the Matrixc is warped. Morpheus believed it was 2199, Neo Believed it was 1999 - what's to stop in being 3199 (ie - time resets every iteration of the Matrix, and Zion is rebuilt in the same amount o f time over and over again, with nobody realizing it;s been done before.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Stealth, have you ever even read any classic literary analyses? Because that's what this is. He's analyzed the two movies, applied them to a literary and historical framework, and finally, he made some generalizations and conjectures about the themes, the messages, then, running with those, made some predictions. Apart from the predictions, that's classic literary analysis in a box. Calling him an idiot because you don;t understand what he's saying or how he got to it is juvenile.
I do understand what he's saying... he's making a comparison to the Bible... but he's trying to predict what's going to happen according to the Bible, and that really is plain stupid, because you can pretty much compare the Matrix to any book/movie... they've all got the "struggle between good and bad"
Anyway, I'm personally in agreement with Anon on the Neo killing the sentinels crap - there's a lot of **** in his body - if he could learn to manipulate the stuff that the machines put in there specifically for creating energy then he'd be able to do **** like that.
so you believe that "Neo is not flesh and blood"... OK
As for the Zio being a part of the Matrix - Refer to the Oracle in M1 - She said Neo'd be able to feel that he was the one - wouldn;t he get the same feeling in Zion?
and he DID get the same feeling in Zion... remember at the end of Reloaded he says "Something's different. I can feel them"... and he then destroys the sentinels.[/color]
Admittedly, that's tenuous, but more telling I think is that the Machines were able to make the rules of Physics strictly enforceable in Zion, they'd do the same in the standard Matrix (I mean, if Neo can't do **** in Zion, and it's still the Matrix, why have a One at all?)
but he now CAN do "****" in Zion, note how he destroyed the sentinels
Also, as for Zion popping back up, Keep in mind, time in the Matrixc is warped. Morpheus believed it was 2199, Neo Believed it was 1999 - what's to stop in being 3199 (ie - time resets every iteration of the Matrix, and Zion is rebuilt in the same amount o f time over and over again, with nobody realizing it;s been done before.
If Zion was in the real world, time would not reset itself, time would reset itself in the Matrix, but not in the real world (because that's impossible)... Now if Zion is destroyed, it's destroyed, how can they build it back up again if all humans have been captured... you'd think the machines would have learned after 5 times?
My theory is fool-proof... Zion is still part of the matrix... you cannot deny it.
Prove to me that it's not, by disputing these facts:
1) Neo destroyed the sentinels, saying "something's different", and that he can "feel them"... how could an ordinary human (everyone outside of the matrix is a regular human) destroy sentinels the way he did (with his mind)? it's impossible, and means Zion is still part of the matrix.
2) The Architect said that Zion had been destroyed 5 times already... how can it be destroyed 5 times in the real world and still be alive... wouldn't the machines have learned by now?
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Originally posted by Stealth
I do understand what he's saying... he's making a comparison to the Bible... but he's trying to predict what's going to happen according to the Bible, and that really is plain stupid, because you can pretty much compare the Matrix to any book/movie... they've all got the "struggle between good and bad"
So that's a no then :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Stealth
My theory is fool-proof... Zion is still part of the matrix... you cannot deny it.
Prove to me that it's not, by disputing these facts:
1) Neo destroyed the sentinels, saying "something's different", and that he can "feel them"... how could an ordinary human (everyone outside of the matrix is a regular human) destroy sentinels the way he did (with his mind)? it's impossible, and means Zion is still part of the matrix.
First off, Neo is not Human. He's a walking, talking, thinking battery. He can produce energy and electrical fields, and, if he learned to manipulate these fields outside of the matrix, he could, theoreically, produce the required EMP to take out the sentinels, especially at such close range.
Also, if Zion was always a part of the matrix, then why wouldn;t something always "feel Different"?
Originally posted by Stealth
2) The Architect said that Zion had been destroyed 5 times already... how can it be destroyed 5 times in the real world and still be alive... wouldn't the machines have learned by now?
Zion is neccesary to weed out all the people who aren't accepting the Matrix, just like the One is neccesary. Th's why they constantly allow it to be rebuilt. What you don't understand is that the date doesn't matter. In fact, nothing that we can't immediately percieve really matters - all that matters is our beliefs and perceptions of the truth. Take, for example, The crossover between Zion 3 and 4. The Oracl;e pulls the first few people, chosen by Neo Three, out of the Matrix, and tells them it's, say, 2050, long enough after their percieved reality (of 1999) for the AI to hve taken control of the human race. They choose a site and build Zion, and begin to free minds. OK. Fast forward 150 years. They believe it's 2199. The one is freed, Zion is destroyed, and the cyce begins again. It doesn't matter that, in truth, the Oracle freed the first minds, not in 2050, but in 2450 (assuming 200 year cycle for each Zion/One rotation) because everyone believed that it was 2050, and therefore, it was. Time doesn't need to reset, because people perceptions reset.
If you didn;t understand that, go read 1984. It makes the perception vs. fact statement far better than I could.
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:lol: Everyone's arguing about the Matrix while they're still in the Matrix. Whooooa...
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
Anyway, I'm personally in agreement with Anon on the Neo killing the sentinels crap - there's a lot of **** in his body - if he could learn to manipulate the stuff that the machines put in there specifically for creating energy then he'd be able to do **** like that.
How in the hell could someone simply will a piece of equipment designed for one function to perform an entirely different function? That's like thinking you can turn your microwave into a laser cannon just by pushing the right buttons.
Zion has to be in the Matrix... it's the only possible explanation for the machines to want it to exist. Given that the machines only care about humans as far as their power-generation potential, they shouldn't care what happens to them after they're unplugged. Yet they do. Therefore, the humans that reject the Matrix are still plugged in. Q.E.D.
Of course, this raises the painful question-- Why should we assume the reality presented in the Zion-Matrix bears any relationship whatsoever to true reality? It would actually be in the best interest of whoever's running the show for the details of the conflict to be entirely fabricated. No point giving valid information to people in case any actually escape the system.
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Originally posted by Stealth
1) Neo destroyed the sentinels, saying "something's different", and that he can "feel them"... how could an ordinary human (everyone outside of the matrix is a regular human) destroy sentinels the way he did (with his mind)? it's impossible, and means Zion is still part of the matrix.
Dude, the theory I came up with doesn't mean he has to be a normal human. :) Also, if all the Zion rebels are machines, that also solves the problem you have with Smith being uploaded to Bane - both work, it's either another level of Matrix or they are machines. Personally the clincher for me is just that the "another level" story conclusion is so dissatisfying. I don't think (neither do I hope) that the Wachowskis had brought their entire storyline into one big dream sequence.
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On the other hand, your theory is so contrived that it hurts even thinking about it.
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These theories are all non-fool-proof, in that they assume the brother's have the intelligence to come up with a realistic, consistent storyline. It could all flop.
The "using energy from humans" bit already shows a lack of thought. That is, unless we assume that Morpheus is being fed bull**** (which is possible), but that also means he has a very warped understanding of thermodynamics.
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what i want to know is, why did the machines make the matrix in the first place? if all they were using the humans for was to get energy, than why build a big dream world for them? why not just have them sit there in those pod things?
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Zion has to be in the Matrix... it's the only possible explanation for the machines to want it to exist. Given that the machines only care about humans as far as their power-generation potential, they shouldn't care what happens to them after they're unplugged. Yet they do. Therefore, the humans that reject the Matrix are still plugged in. Q.E.D.
The machines care about the humans outside the Matrix simply because they have the capability to further disrupt the quid pro quo.
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The topic of argument is only a film. Therefore, it's perfectly possible that if Neo's mind is split between the Matrix and the real world, he can manipulate the Matrix from outside it.
So no, it isn't necessary for Zion to be part of the Matrix for Neo to disrupt those Sentinals.
There's no hard evidence for any theory at the moment. It's all circumstancial. So lets not have anyone saying that 'this proves that my theory is right' because that's just YOUR interpretation of the evidence.
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Originally posted by Sandwich
The machines care about the humans outside the Matrix simply because they have the capability to further disrupt the quid pro quo.
Okay, I should have been more specific. The machines only care about humans as a power source or a potential nuisance. There is no conceivable reason for them to want or even encourange a civilization of humans who have genuinely escaped the Matrix.
And the phrase is status quo. Quid pro quo means something entirely different. Although, considering the nature of the Matrix, quid pro quo might make a certain amount of sense.
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Originally posted by Razor
And now you wounder why you got banned? Its your vocabulary and not being able to controll yourself. Learn to keep those expressions to yourself. If you want to throw it all at someone why don't you do it on someone else (like family members, friends...) in stead of this community's members? You tell us that we suck..you call us names (me especially)...you are arrogant ...What point are you trying to prove? That you are something more "superior" compared to us?
I was addressing whomever editted out the '****tard' part of my previous post, not you.
Oh, and I am superior to you. Most notably in my use of grammar and the English language in general.
Don't even start. // Sandwich
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Okay, I should have been more specific. The machines only care about humans as a power source or a potential nuisance. There is no conceivable reason for them to want or even encourange a civilization of humans who have genuinely escaped the Matrix.
My guess is that 1% that doesn't accept the matrix-they are more dangerous if they remain in the system that outside it.
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Originally posted by Black Wolf
First off, Neo is not Human. He's a walking, talking, thinking battery. He can produce energy and electrical fields, and, if he learned to manipulate these fields outside of the matrix, he could, theoreically, produce the required EMP to take out the sentinels, especially at such close range.
we'll just have to find out in Matrix 3 won't we
Also, if Zion was always a part of the matrix, then why wouldn;t something always "feel Different"?
well look at Matrix 1... Neo was part of the matrix his whole life, and even though he was "The One" why did he never "feel different"?
Zion is neccesary to weed out all the people who aren't accepting the Matrix, just like the One is neccesary. Th's why they constantly allow it to be rebuilt. What you don't understand is that the date doesn't matter. In fact, nothing that we can't immediately percieve really matters - all that matters is our beliefs and perceptions of the truth. Take, for example, The crossover between Zion 3 and 4. The Oracl;e pulls the first few people, chosen by Neo Three, out of the Matrix, and tells them it's, say, 2050, long enough after their percieved reality (of 1999) for the AI to hve taken control of the human race. They choose a site and build Zion, and begin to free minds. OK. Fast forward 150 years. They believe it's 2199. The one is freed, Zion is destroyed, and the cyce begins again. It doesn't matter that, in truth, the Oracle freed the first minds, not in 2050, but in 2450 (assuming 200 year cycle for each Zion/One rotation) because everyone believed that it was 2050, and therefore, it was. Time doesn't need to reset, because people perceptions reset.
we'll have to find out in Matrix 3 next month, won't we ;)
If you didn;t understand that, go read 1984. It makes the perception vs. fact statement far better than I could.
i have read 1984
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Originally posted by Mr. Vega
My guess is that 1% that doesn't accept the matrix-they are more dangerous if they remain in the system that outside it.
And they're even more dangerous if there's an entire civilization of them!
Am I speaking Esperanto here or what? :sigh:
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how about this: Zion and the rest of the real world we've seen is real, except for the last part when Neo destroys the sentinels. He doesn't really leave the Matrix after he saves Trinity, he only thinks he does.
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Then how does Bane still look like himself?
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Okay, I should have been more specific. The machines only care about humans as a power source or a potential nuisance. There is no conceivable reason for them to want or even encourange a civilization of humans who have genuinely escaped the Matrix.
Not encourage, no, but assuming that the humans inhabiting Zion are still trapped in a matrix, all the while thinking that they are free, then the machines would have no reason to permanently do away with Zion either. Humans won't try to escape from a situation if they don't even know they are trapped.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And the phrase is status quo. Quid pro quo means something entirely different. Although, considering the nature of the Matrix, quid pro quo might make a certain amount of sense.
Oops. :p I thought somehting sounded fishy.
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Originally posted by Levyathan
Then how does Bane still look like himself?
I don't know, I didn't put much thought into my theory, I just thought it would help explain Neo killing the sentinels without raising all kinds of questions about Zion.
EDIT: raising not raiding
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Originally posted by Sandwich
Not encourage, no, but assuming that the humans inhabiting Zion are still trapped in a matrix, all the while thinking that they are free, then the machines would have no reason to permanently do away with Zion either.
The machines chose to simulate the world at a specific historic epoch. Presumably, for whatever technical reasons, this setting yields the best price/performance ratio from the human crop. The Zion-Matrix then acts as a catch for the fallout, but one that's more of a pain to maintain and actively disrupts the primary Matrix. So the machines have to bite the bullet and do a little "garbage collection" every few hundred years.
Now, the big argument against this theory is that if the Zionite population is still plugged in, the machines could simply kill them directly, or even wipe their memories (this possibility was directly mentioned in the first Matrix).
I don't even want to think about how the machines supposedly keep the Matrix centered around the same historic period. Seems like they'd have to rewrite the entire population's memories every few decades.
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I'm thinking the abnormality (Neos) appears before the time in the matrix advances enough to warrant a memory wipe. The first few matrices probably failed before they needed a wipe.
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Uhh... only the first Matrix failed.
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Architect-Neo Dialogue, from http://www.geocities.com/clark_kent0002/
Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
It implies more than one failed try.
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Hmmm
Cool tag.
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Originally posted by Kamikaze
It implies more than one failed try.
Whoops, that's right.
Okay, the Matrix in its current form has never failed.
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end of Revolution Neo: i saw realy weird dream *oh my head*
what i did drink last night in bar;)
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
I don't even want to think about how the machines supposedly keep the Matrix centered around the same historic period. Seems like they'd have to rewrite the entire population's memories every few decades.
Memory wipe each time they reload via the anomaly, seems most convenient.
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By pure happenstance, a friend of mine just forwarded to me another Matrix theory. It's quite cool.
[q]
The matrix explained By Jason Payne
Zion is a program, just like the Matrix. How is Neo able to figure out
that he is able to stop the sentinels in Zion near the end of the film?
The spoon given to him earlier. It had obviously been bent loads, but
how outside the Matrix?? This gave Neo the inspiration and the
understanding that Zion is still a matrix.
The One explained
"The One" is a program, but has to be "attached" to someone in the
Matrix. So Mr. Anderson got it in the 6th version of the Matrix. Then
"The One" program's purpose is to allow Zion to be destroyed then to
rebuild it. The reason for this is because of anomalies - the 1% of
humans that don't accept the Matrix. These are all brought out of the
Matrix program and into the Zion program by the "Morpheus" program and
other similar "ship captain" programs. Then once all the anomalies are
out of the Matrix (and in Zion), that is the time for Zion to be
destroyed, thus killing all the anomalies off. The Matrix is then
upgraded, thus creating the next version of the Matrix, but Zion must be
rebuilt so that the next lot of anomalies can be brought out again so
that they can be destroyed. This is the feedback-loop, and is the reason
to retain a handful of people so that Zion can be rebuilt. So this is
why Neo said the prophecy was a lie - the One's purpose was not to end
the war as the prophecy stated.
Unfortunately, "The One" program must be re-used each time, or copied,
so it can be "attached" to a new anomaly inside the Matrix. So what
happens to the old "The One" program? It faces deletion, and as the
Oracle explained, it goes into exile instead, just like the French bloke
(the Merovingian) did. He was the first One (probably from the second
version of the Matrix), and once he fulfilled his duty, he became an
exile program and "abdicated" his "Oneness" by choosing Persephone and
power. This is evident in the bogs when Persephone asks Neo to kiss her.
She says she wants him to kiss her so she can feel what it is like again
to be kissed by something close to human, just like the Merovingian used
to be. Then she says to Trinity that she envies her, but that these
things are not meant to last. So the Merovingian used to be just like
Neo - a One - thus proving further the feedback-loop explained earlier.
The correct door in the Architect's room
Now there are two possibilities here:
1. All the previous One's chose the right door allowing a "temporary
dissemination" of their code into the Matrix (i.e., the code they
"carry" thus indicating Neo is indeed human), then he must select
(unplug) 23 people from the Matrix to rebuild Zion. This takes away the
possibility that stories from previous rebuilds of Zion will be carried
through. But Morpheus indicated in the first Matrix that this is the
case anyway. He said, "there was a man born inside, able to change
things, it was he who freed the first of us," - basically the One
previous to Neo. And this proves that the previous One chose the right
door also. Neo's purpose is also to choose the right door, but he does
not because he faces deletion afterwards and has the choice of going
into exile - programs choosing to go into exile is the one thing that
can't be accounted for in program parameters. Thus, he chooses the left
door instead this time. How was Neo able to choose the other door?
Because of his extreme willpower? - Even the Architect indicated that
he'd noticed this - "Interesting. That was quicker than the others." Or
more likely, because the Oracle upgraded his coding with the candy on
the park bench. The candy/cookie was a method to change the One's
program. She said he has made a believer out of her - this is quite
human-like and perhaps the previous One's didn't accept the upgrade
candy, now she has hope... hope that Neo will finally choose the other
door.
2. All the previous One's chose the left door, saving Trinity and
letting Zion fall. So this time is no different. But the Architect does
say, "You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every
living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated," and
also, "this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have
become exceedingly efficient at it," - assuming the Architect isn't
lying, then they have already destroyed Zion (i.e., Zion has fallen)
five times - i.e., the result of going through the left door.
Morpheus and Trinity are programs. Morpheus's purpose was to find the
One and deliver him to the Architect. Trinity's purpose is to control
the One by getting in love with him. Trinity is supposed to be the
mother of the new One every time the Matrix is Reloaded. That's why the
sex scene was so important and why she was named Trinity.
The Architect says, "she is going to die, and there is nothing that you
can do to stop it." He was correct though because she did die just like
Neo did in the first Matrix (Oracle said he or Morpheus would, and she
didn't lie, but he came back to life). Trinity dies, but comes back to
life (we are using medical definition of death in all this of course!).
The Architect has already laid down an ultimatum for Neo choosing the
left door:
The Architect - "Failure to comply with this process will result in a
cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which
coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the
extinction of the entire human race."
Neo - "You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to
survive."
The Architect - "There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept.
However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept
the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world."
Looking at this further, the Architect does say "coupled" with the
extermination of Zion will the human race be exterminated. So he says
everyone connected to the Matrix will die, but if Zion is not
exterminated, the human race will not necessarily die. Also, there is
likely to be a time-window between not going through the right door, and
the cataclysmic crash, thus allowing Neo to unplug as many as possible
from the Matrix, then those people won't die. This will be the start of
the next Zion. As for the Matrix, a cataclysmic crash doesn't mean the
end of the Matrix - just needs rebooting or reloading!
Agent Smith explained
Agent Smith is the only "human" in this world. He's the one spreading
himself like a virus replicating himself over and over until the Matrix
will finally get overloaded and fail. Smith is the one who wants to get
out of the Matrix for good. He said so in the first Matrix, "I must get
out of here, I must get free! And in this mind, is the key," squeezing
Morpheus's temples, "my key! Once Zion is destroyed, there is no need
for me to be here!"
Smith knows that by killing Neo he can escape the Matrix because Neo is
the key to resetting the Matrix, or to shut it off. It was originally
killing Neo (in the first Matrix) that allowed Smith to become powerful
(cloning ability) - so killing Neo again will allow him to gain Neo's
powers completely, and thus gain the power to shut down the Matrix.
So where the hell did Smith come from if he wants to destroy the Matrix?
He's obviously not meant to be there - he's a computer virus as he has
every characteristic of a virus - he multiplies and spreads and infects
(and emulates) other programs like one. He is exactly as he described
humans at the end of the first Matrix - "You move to an area and you
multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the
only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another
organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what
it is? A virus."
But who put him there? This will only be revealed in Revolutions
(Revelations?) I guess - but I'm betting on humans in the real real
world, i.e., outside of Zion and the Matrix. They're at war with the
machines and trying to destroy them by infecting them with this virus -
Agent Smith. So the irony with this theory is that Agent Smith
represents the human race!! Neo represents the machines! Agent Smith
says to Neo just after he's seen the Oracle that he became free when Neo
destroyed him in the first Matrix (remember when Neo entered his body
and exploded him from inside out) - as a virus, Smith has the ability to
"inherit" other programs' abilities and thus inherited some of Neo's.
The anomaly explained
The anomaly is all the humans that do not accept the Matrix. The
Architect says "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced
equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the
eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have
been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of
mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid
it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control."
This includes Neo, but Neo's Matrix avatar is attached with the One
program so that he can follow his purpose as explained earlier under
"The One explained". However, he is also supposed to protect himself and
destroy anything that gets in his way - i.e., Agent Smith - so that he
may fulfil his purpose.
Further proving Neo - and other non-accepters of the Matrix - are the
anomaly, the Architect says, "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an
unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix." The clue
here is Neo's program name - "The One". Take one-third for example. 1
over 3 is 0.33333 recurring. A computer cannot deal with recurring
numbers, so must accept a limit, let's say 0.33333 for argument's sake.
Multiply by 3, you get 0.99999 - never 1.00000, where has the
"remainder" 0.00001 (One) gone? This is the limitation of computers,
this is the mathematical imprecision inherent in programming (of the
Matrix) and the eventuality of the One anomaly unable to be eliminated.
What is the equation then?
Not sure, but it definitely involves pi. The Keymaker refers to the
window of time to open the door to the mainframe as 314 seconds. 3.14 is
pi to three sig. figs., or the number of radians in half a circle. Half
a circle is like the cross-section of a womb, similar to the alcove of
Neo and Trinity's love scene - conceiving the next One? "NEO",
incidently, is an anagram of "ONE". Trinity and Neo - one on one; a
choice - one or one. Leads us to 101. "101" is mentioned numerous times
in Matrix 1 and Reloaded. Neo's room at the beginning, Merovingian is on
the 101st floor, the 101 freeway of the car chase in Reloaded, then when
Trinity is hacking into the power plant system, she resets the password
to Z10N0101. Freaky. Indicates that she is a program because that's not
some random password she's put in. 101 is binary for 5, which in
zero-based binary counting: 000 is 1, 001, is 2, 010 is 3, 011 is 4, 100
is 5, 101 is 6 - And this is the 6th version of the Matrix! Then there's
303. 303 is the room Neo got shot in Matrix 1, the Oracle lives in room
303, it's also the hotel room number Trinity is in in Matrix 1 and it's
seen at the end when Neo fights the Agents and Smith and begins to
literally see the code that makes up the Matrix. 101 x 3 = 303, a
trilogy, 3 + 0 + 3 = 6 = the 6th Matrix. Trinity means 3.
Who is the "mother" that the Architect refers to?
The Architect says, "Please," in an almost disapproving sense when Neo
suggests the Oracle, but does not reveal who it really is or even
directly that Neo is wrong. The architect was the one who created the
Matrix; the co-creator is neither Persephone nor the Oracle. Both of
them are only programs that have a purpose in the matrix, just like the
rest. The Architect is in charge of the Matrix world and the co-creator
is in charge of Zion. She has almost the same age as the Architect.
Therefore, that woman is the Head Counsellor, the only woman of
importance that lives in Zion and the one who asked for the two captains
to volunteer at the council meeting. She's the one who knew all along
about the Matrix. She was the one who told Zion's Defence Minister to
cool off and to let Morpheus do his work so things could go as planned.
Or alternatively, it could indeed be the Oracle. She is the only program
that truly wants humans to have a free choice... at the same time, she
sees the future, because she knows the program code - she is like God -
which is why Seraph protects her - see "Who is Seraph?" below.
What's so special about Neo's avatar?
Neo is a skilled hacker, and his avatar in the Matrix is based on the
person that founded the AI of the original machines that eventually took
over the world... How? Take a look at the disc he gave to the bloke at
the door at the beginning of Matrix 1. It said "DISC AI" on it. The
hollowed book Neo takes the disc out of is "Simulacra and Simulation" -
a collection of essays by the French postmodernist philosopher Jean
Baudrillard. He opens it to the section "on Nihilism" (meaning nothing
is truly known, etc.). "Baudrillard's concept of simulation is the
creation of the real through conceptual or 'mythological' models which
have no connection or origin in reality. The model becomes the
determinant of our perception of reality--the real." And Morpheus says,
"Welcome to the desert of the real," in Matrix 1. I'd say this book
describes The Matrix to a tee. So this disc contains the key to the AI,
and thus how to destroy the machines, so I think they'll use this info
in Revolutions to ultimately destroy the machines, which means he'll
have to go back to the nightclub and find the guy he gave it to.
Who is Seraph?
The reason Seraph (the chinese guy Neo meets before meeting the Oracle)
had golden code and was so spectacular is that he came from the first
incarnation of the matrix, which was heaven. "Seraph" is singular for
the plural "seraphim". The seraphim are the highest choir of angels and
included amongst others: Lucifer, Gabriele, Raziel and Malaciah, and
they sit on the 8th level of Heaven just one below God. So Seraph will
obviously have a big part in Revolutions, but whose side will he be on -
the machines or the humans?? That is the question.
The Twins
They are exiled programs that emulate the human myth of ghosts as the
Oracle explained. They are programs behaving badly. Persephone killed
one of the Merovingian's bodyguards with a silver bullet because he was
emulating a werewolf. So if the Twins could phase into ghost form, why
didn't he when his arm was trapped in the door of the garage? Was it
because he was wounded or because he can't phase when his arm is
trapped? No of course not. The doors of that building, when shut, always
led somewhere else (usually in the mountains) when opened again without
the Keymaker's key. So if it were slammed shut due to the Twin phasing
into ghost form, the Twin's arm would've ended up god knows where, but
certainly not attached to the Twin's body.
[/q]
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:D
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thats nice long theory Sandwich:) ;)
but use tag :nervous: *runs*[/SIZE]
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Not bad. :) I like the explanation of Seraph... Seraph owns.
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Originally posted by 01010
Someone has done a LOT of thinking about this, a bit text heavy but a worthy read and I think this guys theory is the one I most agree with. Wish I thought of it, but I don't have as much free time as he (evidently) does.
http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html (http://webpages.charter.net/btakle/matrix_reloaded.html)
I think the idea of machines and humans needing each other to evolve is pretty sound.
Yeah this one is what makes most sence to me.
But until Revolutions is out we won't know for sure :P
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Jason Payne's theory has a lot of good points and logic in it, but it also has a lot of stuff pulled straight out of his ass (or put more delicately, it is rife with unsupported speculation), like the "What's so special about Neo's avatar?" paragraph.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
Jason Payne's theory has a lot of good points and logic in it, but it also has a lot of stuff pulled straight out of his ass (or put more delicately, it is rife with unsupported speculation), like the "What's so special about Neo's avatar?" paragraph.
I thought the same thing, but I wanted to see if anyone else picked up on it. :p
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Is he even certain that it said 'Disc AI' and not 'Disc 41'?
I don't think a sequel was originally intended when the Matrix was first released, so we can't draw any really critical storyline stuff out of the first film.
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Originally posted by Descenterace
I don't think a sequel was originally intended when the Matrix was first released, so we can't draw any really critical storyline stuff out of the first film.
Actually, IIRC, the entire story arc covered in the three movies was already completely planned for anime. The move to film was a late development, but the storyline wasn't.
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
but use tag :nervous: *runs*[/SIZE] [/B]
we covered this about a page ago...
if you don't want the Matrix spoiled, don't come into this thread:doubt:
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2 weeks and 1 day till Matrix: Revolutions comes out :D
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Yeah can't wait :D
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Originally posted by Stealth
we covered this about a page ago...
if you don't want the Matrix spoiled, don't come into this thread:doubt:
but because of me this thread exist:p
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BUMbumbum
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w00t, the end of rambling speculation is nigh...
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Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
but because of me this thread exist:p
Ummm... no.
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I think because of me, this thread exists. :D
Originally posted by Stealth
2 weeks and 1 day till Matrix: Revolutions comes out :D
Wow, time flies... heh, I'll still be in exams by then. Oh well. ;)
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i was thinking... they really did a good job with these movies... they've succeeded in getting everyone around the world to think (unsuccessfully for the most part i might add) about what's going to happen in the next movie!
You know... cause in most movies you can pretty much guess what the sequel is going to include :D