Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: Antares on October 26, 2003, 01:13:06 pm

Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Antares on October 26, 2003, 01:13:06 pm
Just something I was mulling over the other day.

Most of the major factions in Freespace--the GTA, the PVE, and so on--have their own stylized logos.  The NTF, the HOL, and even the SOC all have duly impressive insignias.  However, two of the most important groups in the series--the Shivans and the Ancients--have no apparent designs of any sort.  It seems rather unfair.

Has anyone ever considered drawing up a Shivan or Ancient logo?

We're fairly certain that the Ancients controlled a vast interstellar empire, indicating they would be likely to display a brand or symbol of some kind as a sign of their power and influence.  Since there is some evidence suggesting that the Vasudans are descended from the Ancients, then the symbol might be similar to that employed by the PVE.

As to the Shivans, however, we can only speculate.  We don't know if the Shivans operate on a government of any kind, and given their xenocidal tendencies, it's unlikely they would give a damn whether anyone recognized their emblem or not.  I think it might be fun, however, just to establish a design for them; it provides an excuse to play around with their trademark sharp-edged black-and-red style and create something nifty. :p

Just a thought.

On a semi-related note, I know it's possible to change the color of a subspace jump portal, but is it possible to link a given portal color to a certain species?  The FS Reference Bible indicates that originally, the Lucifer always made use of a blood-red jump portal--something that was illustrated in the cutscene debuting the Lucifer itself, a scene that was unfortunately cut from the game--and I think it would make a really nifty visual effect if it could be applied to certain Shivan ships or to the Shivans in general, without also being applied to the remaining species.

Probably more of a source code issue than an artistic one, but I know you code geeks read this forum too, so here you are. ;)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Carl on October 26, 2003, 01:26:25 pm
if you explore the FS2 CDs, there is a picture in there that looks alot like what a shivan HUD may look like. maybe the weird circles on it are symbols.
Title: Re: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: kasperl on October 26, 2003, 01:31:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Antares
On a semi-related note, I know it's possible to change the color of a subspace jump portal, but is it possible to link a given portal color to a certain species?  The FS Reference Bible indicates that originally, the Lucifer always made use of a blood-red jump portal--something that was illustrated in the cutscene debuting the Lucifer itself, a scene that was unfortunately cut from the game--and I think it would make a really nifty visual effect if it could be applied to certain Shivan ships or to the Shivans in general, without also being applied to the remaining species.

Probably more of a source code issue than an artistic one, but I know you code geeks read this forum too, so here you are. ;)


IIRC you can already set the warphole per ship using the tbl's, and there's something like a SEXP too.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: mikhael on October 26, 2003, 02:44:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
if you explore the FS2 CDs, there is a picture in there that looks alot like what a shivan HUD may look like. maybe the weird circles on it are symbols.


Any idea which CD that might be on, Carl? I don't remember seeing it.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Taristin on October 26, 2003, 02:48:33 pm
Must have been the Swarm-of-the-year edition...
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 26, 2003, 03:57:35 pm
The GTI doesn't have its own logo; that always annoyed me.

I'm sure the Ancient empire had some sort of insignia they used, but the Shivans definitely don't. They're utterly non-human, and don't wear uniforms or wave flags.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Bobboau on October 26, 2003, 05:09:11 pm
yeah, shivans are.. yeah, insignia's don't match
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 26, 2003, 11:15:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Galemp
The GTI doesn't have its own logo; that always annoyed me.

Me too.  Someone want to make one? :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 27, 2003, 12:08:52 am
Perhaps take the GTVI logo and replace the GTVA insignia with the GTA one.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Setekh on October 27, 2003, 03:09:05 am
Indeed, the GTVI logo is covered with stars - a big Terran thing. I've always suspected GTVI was actually GTI with some Vasudan operatives, not Vasudan from the ground-up.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Lightspeed on October 27, 2003, 11:18:36 am
Quote
Originally posted by Carl
if you explore the FS2 CDs, there is a picture in there that looks alot like what a shivan HUD may look like. maybe the weird circles on it are symbols.


post it :D
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Black Wolf on October 27, 2003, 12:45:44 pm
Hmmm - Late night stab at what a GTI logo might look like, since nobody seems to have made an alternative yet :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Taristin on October 27, 2003, 01:11:16 pm
I think it should be darker, but it's definately FS-ish in looks. :yes:
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 27, 2003, 05:10:30 pm
Not bad.  Kinda weird, but interesting. :yes:

Any other submissions? :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 27, 2003, 10:03:09 pm
Get rid of all the smaller stars and we may have a winner. :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 27, 2003, 10:15:07 pm
Howabout keep them, but subtract half and distribute the rest in the four corners of the image... above and below the ring, and on opposite sides of the middle star.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 27, 2003, 11:11:45 pm
OK... let's make the gold darker, make the stars silver, and place one at each corner.

Whoo, I might be able to do that in 3DS Max and make a CBani out of it.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 27, 2003, 11:53:44 pm
More than one at each corner.  Two, or a small triangle of three.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Eviscerator on October 27, 2003, 11:58:24 pm
I have to agree that the Shivans are prolly not interested in the patriotic mindset and thus would have no insignia. If they did, I think it would have been seen as Volition would have likely thought of it, or at least considered it.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Bobboau on October 28, 2003, 12:02:11 am
if you must have something use that little triangle thingy on the from of many of the FS1 shivan ships
but, they wouldn't have anything ina symbolic form we would recognise
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Black Wolf on October 28, 2003, 03:19:48 am
I wasnlt entirely sure what you all wanted, so I came up with star designs, following basically what's been posted here, and number three, which I personally think looks quite nifty. Mix and Match :).

EDIT - Number two should probably have the bottom two sets of stars in a flipped configuration (ie two on top, one on the bottom)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Fineus on October 28, 2003, 04:01:09 am
It should be a bit more dark and mysterious - this is the GTI after all... not some happy clappy little squad of pilots.

But thats just my taste, it's a great start :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Bobboau on October 28, 2003, 09:00:23 am
I think #3 is the best, wonder what that would look like with a fewer pointed star
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Black Wolf on October 28, 2003, 10:15:08 am
The 8 pointed star is an outgrowth of the GTA symbol - if you look at the gold part, it's got the left half of an eight pointed star on the left, and a sort of crescent thing on the right.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Carl on October 28, 2003, 11:04:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
but, they wouldn't have anything ina symbolic form we would recognise


The thing on the side of the Lucifer, it looks very much like an eye.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 28, 2003, 11:31:50 am
Black Wolf, can you redo #3 with stars at the bottom in the same place also?
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Black Wolf on October 28, 2003, 12:50:49 pm
Uh huh.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: kasperl on October 28, 2003, 01:09:32 pm
original was better IMHO
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Ace on October 28, 2003, 05:08:12 pm
#3's the best.

I think that the gold star is pretty decent, since it matches the color used in the GTVA logo.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Taristin on October 28, 2003, 06:08:37 pm
3)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Setekh on October 28, 2003, 08:25:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
It should be a bit more dark and mysterious - this is the GTI after all... not some happy clappy little squad of pilots.

But thats just my taste, it's a great start :)


I agree with Kal, note how the hues used in the GTVI logo. But I still think you've done a nice job, it really comes down to taste now. :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: CobaltStarr on October 28, 2003, 08:53:46 pm
I like #4 (The modified #3) I'd just point the star clusters at the center of the large star... That would give it a better feel IMHO. But :yes:, all the same... :)
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 29, 2003, 12:51:53 am
You mean like this?
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Black Wolf on October 29, 2003, 08:07:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
Indeed, the GTVI logo is covered with stars - a big Terran thing. I've always suspected GTVI was actually GTI with some Vasudan operatives, not Vasudan from the ground-up.


Wow - I missed a steak post. I must be getting used to seeing that avatar around again :)

Anyway, I doubt this is the case. The GTVI may be more influenced by Terran ideas (particularly if our intelligence service was more efficient, more extensive, etc.) but I'd say it'd be one of the most integrated units of the Alliance, simply because oif the importance of its role. If the GTVA is to function at all, the two gobernments can't keep information from each other, and a unified intelligence service is the only way they'd ensure that there was no siphoning off of sensetive information. Letting a few Vasudans into the renamed GTI wouldn't do it - it'd have to be a rebuilt or combined service.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: CobaltStarr on October 29, 2003, 09:47:51 pm
Actually, yeah. :) That's exactly what I meant... Was expecting them to maintain their original position (or pretty close to it), but they look great where they are now... :yes: :yes:
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 29, 2003, 11:08:34 pm
Okay, can we see any other GTI logos that aren't variants of this one?  Just for comparison's sake.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Galemp on October 30, 2003, 01:15:25 am
Sure, here's my take. I like BW's, though.
Title: Shivans don't need no steenking badges!
Post by: Setekh on October 30, 2003, 02:06:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
I'd say it'd be one of the most integrated units of the Alliance, simply because oif the importance of its role.


My logic was that its importance would have made it far more desirable for each party to maintain control over the other. I know it's a terrible way of running things, it would inevitably cause mayhem in communication and that would lead to disaster - but that's precisely what we see happening in our present world in joint operations (check out the negotiations between allies when a world war is being waged), and we even see supporting instances of it in FS2 itself - like the rogue Vasudan admiral who jeopardised your undercover mission with the NTF.

Of course, he was just a rogue - but that's just the point. The official line must be utter diplomacy (as between Japan and the US before the Pearl Harbour attack!), but I suspect that there are still deep chasms between two races that were once at war for three decades.

I stand by that, but on rethinking, I think GTVI could be less dominated by the Terrans, though perhaps they'd be taking the initiative in most intelligence ops - especially with the presence of the SOC. :)