Originally posted by Stealth
Newbie. or you could just be jealous.
yeah, i think you're just jealous :D
Originally posted by Stealth
Newbie. or you could just be jealous.
yeah, i think you're just jealous :D
Anyway, there's always screeners, for almost every movie, which is usually a one time show where they show the movie, before it comes out. most times movie theater employees get to see it then.
Pffftttt, bribed the theater? hahahaha
Originally posted by Razor
Yeah totally. If you ask me...he's way better than Neo.
Trinity....meh
Originally posted by Stunaep
JESUS CHRIST!
What a bunch of crap.
I regret paying $4 to see this movie.
I regret spending an hour in the bus stop afterwards.
I regret making my way through the camera man, the policemen and 800 fans to my seat.
Put it this way:
What we know will happen from the trailers and Reloaded:
Zion is attacked by machines. Neo encounters a big computer head, and battles Smith. Due to hollywood logic, the machines are defeated, and at least one main characters dies.
What happens: Zion is attacked by machines. Neo encounters a big computer head, and battles Smith. Due to hollywood logic, the machines are defeated, and at least one main characters dies.
Where's the revolution? Nope. No revolution. No actual plot. No character developement AT ALL. The SFX were lame. The action was drawn out. I actually cried "DIE ALREADY *****!" when a main character died.
Also, it was full of flaws. Most notably: It is established in the Matrix and also in Revolutions that whoever is posessed by an agent, dies. We learn that the Matrix has been conquered by Smiths. Everyone is Smith. Every Smith is killed. Ergo, everyone in the Matrix is killed.
Jeez. I want my two hours back.
No character developement AT ALL
Originally posted by Razor
Characters don't need development.
Razor. You're dead. You can't talk. So shut up and be dead like you have to.
You've already made clear that you've never seen real cinema.
Originally posted by StunaepIt established no such thing. The only people who died as a result of Agentification were the ones Our Heroes killed.
Also, it was full of flaws. Most notably: It is established in the Matrix and also in Revolutions that whoever is posessed by an agent, dies.
Originally posted by Stunaep
JESUS CHRIST!
What a bunch of crap.
I regret paying $4 to see this movie.
I regret spending an hour in the bus stop afterwards.
I regret making my way through the camera man, the policemen and 800 fans to my seat.
Put it this way:
What we know will happen from the trailers and Reloaded:
Zion is attacked by machines. Neo encounters a big computer head, and battles Smith. Due to hollywood logic, the machines are defeated, and at least one main characters dies.
What happens: Zion is attacked by machines. Neo encounters a big computer head, and battles Smith. Due to hollywood logic, the machines are defeated, and at least one main characters dies.
Where's the revolution? Nope. No revolution. No actual plot. No character developement AT ALL. The SFX were lame. The action was drawn out. I actually cried "DIE ALREADY *****!" when a main character died.
Also, it was full of flaws. Most notably: It is established in the Matrix and also in Revolutions that whoever is posessed by an agent, dies. We learn that the Matrix has been conquered by Smiths. Everyone is Smith. Every Smith is killed. Ergo, everyone in the Matrix is killed.
Jeez. I want my two hours back.
Originally posted by Sandwich
I don't know how or why they pulled the Train Master out of their butts,
They don't tell you who the french guy is, who Seraph is, who the ghosts from #2 were - nothing.
Originally posted by RazorA bit OT, but can someone explain to me what the hell is up with the triple contradictory smile thing?
:wtf: :lol: :doubt:
Posted by Razor...
Yeah! I bet that not even Volition could think of a such a great epic battle.
Originally posted by Charmande
Well... the war for Zion was great IMO. It could have been a little more grand though, i mean they only had one of those "command towers', the one with the four or five big turret guns. Also... they need something other than bullets... i didn't see a single missile or bomb or even a laser while they were fending off those sentinals. don't the sentinals remind you of the Shivans? it doesn't matter how many you kill cuz there's always a bajillion more.
Anyhow, the end was just pathetic, and neo's battle with agent smith wasn't nearly as great or as long as i would have liked. Neo knocked smith into a wall, smith knocked neo into a wall, NOTHING NEW! :ick
But like reloaded, this movie was worth watching just for the action scenes, specifically the battle at Zion.
Volition already thought of a greater, epiccer battle, and it's called Freespace! :)
Originally posted by Stealth
That was easy to figure out man! "French Guy" - Former "One". Ghosts were programs. Seraph is a program from the first Matrix.
Originally posted by Su-tehp What people might have missed is that Neo made a deal with Deus ex Machina (aka the big machine head in the Machine City aka the Original AI). Smith had absorbed EVERYONE in the Matrix and thus became a danger to even his fellow machines/programs. If Neo hadn't fought Smith, Smith would have eventually absorbed the machines in the real world. Smith proved that he could absorb humans in the real world when he took over Bane. It stands to reason that Smith might have also eventually found a way to absorb machines in the real world, thus even posing a threat to all the other AIs, including Deus ex Machina. So Neo bargained with Deus: Neo would kill Smith, thus ending the threat to the machines (and returing everyone still in the Matrix to normal) and in return, Deus would spare Zion.
The movie made sense to me...
Originally posted by Sandwich
Merv is a former one. Right. Convince me. :doubt:
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
So what happened? Everything went back to the way it was. Sort of. Were back to square bloody one. Except Zion was saved this time, in a wreck with no ships ofcourse. And the Matrix rebooted again, with Humans having a choice to leave if they wish. But answer me this. If the humans are the machines source of power, I doubt the machines will let everyone go. Only the ones that "want" to leave. So in a sence the whole war has gone from a hot one to a cold one. The machines don't want to let go of the humans, so ofcouse it'll make them stay. Propaganda time.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
So nothing changed, humans will still fight the machines in order to save humans from the matrix, albeit now a bit more quietly.
Originally posted by Levyathan
The hell they will. Everyone is already free. Fighting to take people out of the Matrix would make no sense.
So the 'back to square one' thing is total bull****.
Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
Also, why is there a matrix!!, machines can survive in space, why they **** dont they go up there and make a big solar array? lol, or just use fission.
Originally posted by Levyathan
Because if they did, there wouldn't be much of a story. :p
Or maybe it was their intent to preserve humanity. Remember, in the beggining all they wanted was peace.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I don't think so. The Architech said "Those that want to leave." He never said anything about everyone being free. There never was any implication that everyone in the matrix is free.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Would the machines REALLY just let go of its power source?
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
And even if they would where would they all go? ZION? Hell they can barely live as they are.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
No. Things are back to the way they were on the most part, just that people in the matrix have choice now, IF they find out its a dream.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I mean if what you say is true, then all the plot elements the Wachowski's are writing for Matrix Online is just bull. And MO is going to take place after Revolutions. So why play a game where you're fighting agents when in fact things should be all peacefull.
Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
lol, did u watch the animatrix?, humans started it.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Though I wouldn't mind if the Wachowski's would write the Matrix as books from now on. That wouldn't be bad. Cheap too.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Ok. I guess people could go to the surface to live. Since its peace time. But then what Dozer said about Zion being the last remnant of humanity cause its close to the core, where its warm, wouldn't make sence. I mean, they went there because it was warm. So it means it would mean the surface is inhospitable. But people are resilient, and not having ten thousand squiddies breathing down your neck also probably makes the difference for people to find a way to live on the surface.
Originally posted by Stunaep
Also, the machine are going to freely let go of every human who wants to leave the matrix. They're going to give up their food. I can live with that. Only it means there will be a sequel.
Originally posted by Sandwich
Merv is a former one. Right. Convince me. :doubt:
Also, the Reloaded ended with a lot of questions. The philosophical jibba-jabba the Architect made about the previous ones, the people who were supposed to rebuild the matrix, the door Neo was supposed to choose, cause and effect, the entire shiznit with the Merovingian, Persephone, The Trainman, the Twins (who even didn't ****ing appear in the second movie), is paid off how in Revolutions?
Originally posted by Stealth
you're all missing what they stated in the end (well, a lot of you)... the war is OVER... which means machines don't control humans anymore. the humans were given a choice (the architect clearly said that at the end) and those that wish to stay in the Matrix can, and those that want out will be allowed to be out. I mean, i'm sure most of them would want to stay in the Matrix... it's the world they're used to!
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Wohoo! I agree... :D
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
That means that it almost only seems like a cease fire, since both of them seem rather doubtfull that this was the END of the war.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
But how do you know its over? Where in the film is it certain the war is over?
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
And back to Matrix Online, if its over there would be no story in the follow up game.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
And then the whole thing about "Will we see Neo again?" And the oracle replying with something like "Probably" means that there will come a time again when things heat up again and people will need him again. Or actually, people are not happy and he emerges from their discontent which was pritty much the boiled down reason the architech gave in the 2nd movie.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
In the end when the Architech speaks to the oracle he mentions that those that wish to go free can go free. Which in my oppinion is only a handfull.
Originally posted by Sheepy
Also neo and smith fight, anyone else think itwas dragonball minus the fireballs?
Also neo and smith fight, anyone else think itwas dragonball minus the fireballs?
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
It wasn't a definitive conclusion to a Trilogy.
Originally posted by Blue Lion
But he's talking to the Oracle, you never thought maybe they meant programs and not humans?
Originally posted by Levyathan
Then you might want to give an example of what a definitive conclusion could be. Please.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Return of the Jedi.
Return of the King.
Originally posted by Sheepy
anouther point, you all complain about the possibilty of neo still being alive, if you remember the matrix doesnt work with out the one, so inevitably hes going to turn up again in some shape or form ... wait actaully, it wouldnt have to be neo would it ... ah well
Originally posted by Styxx
I think he meant a conclusion to the Matrix story.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Ah ok...
Well I dunno. I would have been happy with Neo in the end just using the EMP on the Logos. Or perhaps just destroying the machines in some über-mega plasma ball way in the real world, using his new found powers, freeing everyone, clearing up the clouds and just having everything be just dandy. Hell Neo could have died in that ending too, consuming himself in the blast,but at least it would all be over. No more machines, no more matrix, bo more clouds. Clean slate. We start again. And the a bloody clichéd monoluge by that bratty kid who used the APU, speaking about how everyone went back to the surface, helped the people from the matrix restart their lives and finally have a flashforward a hundred years to the future where people are living in cities again, kiddies playing in the park and a Statue of Neo in his Revolutions pose :D made out of black granite. Hell, throw in the even worse clichéd scene with a little girl and an old woman walking by with the girl looknig up at Neo and asking "Who is that Grandma?" The old lady smiles and replies "Oh thats a long story..." Pan to the sky that is partly cloudy and birds flying past the cam. And if you wanna bloody totally top it all off and STILL not want something definitive but just a final twist, you can add a little glitch where you see the matrix code for a second and then cut to credits.
*looks up...*
:blah:
Ok. So its clichéd but definitive, and I would have been happier with that ending too. :D
Originally posted by PhReAk
i saw it on wednesday. nice movie and special effects. can't say i liked the final fight between neo and smith, but it did make sense since -neo=smith so smith+neo=0. also with neo's death, smith had no purpose and got deleted. i guess we were expecting so much due to the hype and nothing would have satisfied us.
Originally posted by Sheepy
on the point about merv being a one ... the fact that he says its his job to know things and to collect infomation about 100 times in the second and third films doesnt slightly indicate that he a program to do just that? :rolleyes: :p
Originally posted by an0n
...Then we pan out a little to see a robot walking along with a spong-mop and a bucket of soapy water. It reaches its mop into the bucket, lifts it to the statue to clean it off, then, at the last possible moment, pulls back the mop, picks up the bucket and walks off down the street...........
Originally posted by an0n
And in regard to the Smith and Neo thing, it's kinda obvious that if Neo is The One™, then it follows that Smith would be The Nothing™.
Neo creates peace, harmony and prosperity for both man and machine-kind. Smith destroys everything.
Basically, the whole personal battle between Smith and Neo equates to a simple true/false statement.
Originally posted by Stunaep
Now, that I've seen The Matrix Reloaded again, I'm really awed by how much superior it was to the third part. And how much weaker it was compared to the first part.
yeah, that's your opinion, and i share the same opinion with you :)
Reloaded didn't have any characters shouting "MWAHAHAHA"
i agree that was possibly the stupidest part of the whole movie
Reloaded had the Merovingian actually seem like he was important somehow. Turns out, his not.
actually he's still one of the most powerful programs out there apparently. remember, he'd be powerful enough if he controlled the Trainmaster, but in addition to that he controls much, much more... he's powerful, and rich, why do you think Trinity, Morpheus, and Neo went to him in the second movie and went to him again in the third movie. they wouldn't have gone asking him if he wasn't powerful ;)
Reloaded had the oh-so-cool Twins, that were TOTALLY forgotten about in the second film.
yeah, but the third film had Seraph, who was also cool :D... i did miss the twins though :-/
Reloaded had the architect, who explained various ****, that at the time seemed actually relevant.
the architect confused more people than actually understood :lol: :)
Which reminds me, if Neo was one of many ones, how did the other Ones defeat their counterpart Smiths. And how did that end in the destruction of Zion, if seemingly the only way to defeat the Smiths was to do what Neo did?
because the other Ones didn't have to face the counterpart Smiths... Neo was a "special" One... the architect said it, the Merovingian said it, everyone knew that he was different from the others. The Smith episode was what led to the peace between mankind and machines, because the machines feared that soon Smith would be powerful enough to beat them... and at that point Neo was the only one that had a chance to beat Smith, which was why the machines used him.
Originally posted by Stealth
That was easy to figure out man! "French Guy" - Former "One".
Originally posted by beatspete
Snip!
Originally posted by ubermetroid
:confused: No.....
Originally posted by aldo_14
No.... Snith would be The Minus One
1+0 = 1 1+(-1) = 0
Originally posted by an0n
But if Smith represents 0, then it ties into Binary, the whole true-or-false thing of the Matrix, the basic defining qualities of the characters (Neo being the embodiment of a greater purpose and Smith being a representation of someone who believes in nothing) and so-on........
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Yeah, its still a Jesus trilogy, that being obvious from the first movie.
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I guess he realised there could never have been a total victory
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
So its still seems she only talking about a few people that know of the reality of the matrix.
Originally posted by Stealth
it made sense to me. and a lot of "matrix theories" online said the same thing
Originally posted by ubermetroid
:nervous: What I got out of #2 what that all the other "ones" merged with the sorce. Also, Merv is an exile, a program gone bad.
But that is what I got out of it.
Now this is just something that is a hunch. Probably a bit stupid but i'll throw it out there for all the people to mull over. ... Neo more machine like, Smith more human. The fight is no longer between man and machine. But identity. Prophescy is been blown apart and the war will destroy both man and machine is the answer isn't found. The death of both chosen ones. Thats right. Two. Smith and Neo must die to save the whole. As i said not thought through, and probably a bit stupid but i have this gut feeling.
Dan
there's no way Neo will be dead by the end of all this.
I've got four words for y'all:
Trinity is The One.
Think about it....
-Stephen
But if Trinity was meant to fall in love with The One, does that mean that she's a narcissist?
Think about that, dumbass.
... {about 2 pages of Matrix theory here}... That is just the real basic stuff obviously, but let's face it. It is only one movie. For these people who think that there will be time for 8 or 9 new twists, they need to take a lesson in realism. There will be a giant twist in this movie, but there won't be 4 or 5. The twists will come with the Meregivinian and what he is, with the connection between Smith and Neo, and then with the fates of the previous anamolies and Zions.
Bottom line: after projected box office returns of over $700 million, Larry and Andy Wachowski could pull a Wizard of Oz on us and laugh all the way to the bank.
Wizard of Oz: Neo wakes up in his office right after his boss yelled at him in the first movie for being late. Agent Smith turns out to just be a representation of his boss in the dream. (Look at the way the boss says "Mr. Anderson")
This would be the worst thing that could ever happen in many people's lives. And suicides among computer nerds would go up 462%. Keanu Reeves would never act again, the Wachowski's would be beaten retarded by the legions of Bill Gates, and the only person to come out ahead of the game will be Carrie-Anne Moss because she will still look hot in her dominatrix outfit.
What an anti-climax. No questions were answered, no decent fight sequences, no point. I cant believe they ended it that way, what is it a love story!? i cried, im not joking, they spoilt a fantastic idea with their hippy (and obviously canadian) ideas of love, peace and hope. WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT THAT RUBBISH! i wanted a well thought out ending, i got a kick in the nuts. Dont talk to me about movies again, ill never be excited about another movie again.....
£5.00 i paid for that movie! I bunked Sociology and English to watch it at 2pm and if i fail in lfe its all the waschowskis fault!
id like for [you] to shut the **** up
talkin **** about canadians
stay in your ugly deadbeat dirtytooth society
and the answers were there
and quite obvious but
your a fagget who was just pissed off because
you couldnt go home and wack off to neo and trinity having sex again
and your a dirty homo
Originally posted by an0n
Nice reasoning skills there.
Originally posted by Levyathan
What makes you think there have been seven other Smiths?
(No matter this is the sixth Matrix, so there could only have been five versions....)
Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
Also, why is there a matrix!!, machines can survive in space, why they **** dont they go up there and make a big solar array?
Originally posted by Devils_Hitman
lol, or just use fission.
Originally posted by Stunaep
Because there was now. And consider the One program was pretty much the same every time, there should have been a -One as well every time.
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
...someone who has nothing better to do right now :p
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Why would Merv want the Oracle's eyes? Since when does a computer program have eyes?
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Well, I just got back from the theater. Overall, I found Revolutions much more entertaining than Reloaded. However, in retrospect Revolutions made much less sense than Reloaded.
What happened to the Oracle in the day or so after Neo last saw her?
If the Oracle is almost as big a wheel in the Matrix as the Architect, then why is she slumming around with only one program for protection?
Why is the Trainman such a bloody lunatic? What was up with that "Nobody can help me!" babbling?
How in the hell can Neo blow up Sentinels by just waving his hand in the air? After all the theorizing on this subject, the best they could come up with was "He just can, ok"?
Also, what did Neo do to block all the ballistic projectiles they were lobbing at him?
How can Neo link to the Matrix without a physical connection to it? Oh that's right, "He just can".
The machines have apparently never heard of the Maginot Line.
If Zion is in fact part of the Real Real World, and not a parallel Matrix program for collecting rejects (as some theorized), then why does the Architect need Zion to exist? To machines of his mindset, humans are batteries, period. A human no longer serving that purpose is useless and should be killed immediately.
And again, if Zion is the real world, how was Smith able to download himself into a human brain? That's like trying to play a CD by putting it in a toaster.
Why would Merv want the Oracle's eyes? Since when does a computer program have eyes?
Why do Sentinels suck so much at combat? The kill ratio between humans and machines looked to be about 500:1. Makes me wonder how the machines won the war in the first place. Most of the time the Sentinels seemed more intent on putting on a flying exhibition than actually fighting.
The scene where that girl was running through the crawlspace dodging Sentinel tentacles looked like an upside-down version of the graveyard scene from Army of Darkness.
If EMPs are such bloody powerful weapons against the machines, why isn't there a single one (let alone dozens) in the dock? Oh wait, it would knock down their defenses. Oh wait, it doesn't knock down the defenses on the ships, so why would the dock be any different? Oh wait, why not make EMP weapons with a smaller effective radius?
Since when can Smith fly? He couldn't a few hours ago.
Programs have to be productive members of society or face deletion? Sounds like machine society really sucks.
These two lovey-dovey programs have been talking to the Oracle, and therefore must know roughly what's going down in the Matrix, yet they choose to ship their "daughter" off there anyway?
Why is Smith taking over the Matrix a problem for the machines? The human bodies are still generating power, and as this film went to great lengths to establish, the only way in or out is through the train station. In the real world, this probably means the physical network connections to the Matrix simulators out in the fields are limited and tightly controlled. Just cut them.
On the other hand, apparently you can cut every cable in the breaker room of one of the humans' hovercraft, and it will still run just fine.
I think I'm going to like this movie less and less the more I think about it. Ugh.
PS-- Why are some people so bloody literal-minded when it comes to theorizing? First the "all previous Ones looked exactly like Neo" theory (based on the screens in the Architect room), and now the inane "the Merovingian is a One", and "Smith died because Neo died" theories. It's already been explained why Merv can't be a former One, and the Smiths clearly were able to be destroyed because Smith took over a body linked directly to the machine mainframe. The mainframe was then able to analyze the Smith program (with a little help from the submerged Oracle program), devise an exponentially-propagating anti-Smith virus, and introduce it into the Matrix via Neo's link.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
What happened to the Oracle in the day or so after Neo last saw her?
If the Oracle is almost as big a wheel in the Matrix as the Architect, then why is she slumming around with only one program for protection?
Why is the Trainman such a bloody lunatic? What was up with that "Nobody can help me!" babbling?
How in the hell can Neo blow up Sentinels by just waving his hand in the air? After all the theorizing on this subject, the best they could come up with was "He just can, ok"? Also, what did Neo do to block all the ballistic projectiles they were lobbing at him?
How can Neo link to the Matrix without a physical connection to it? Oh that's right, "He just can".
The machines have apparently never heard of the Maginot Line.
If Zion is in fact part of the Real Real World, and not a parallel Matrix program for collecting rejects (as some theorized), then why does the Architect need Zion to exist? To machines of his mindset, humans are batteries, period. A human no longer serving that purpose is useless and should be killed immediately.
And again, if Zion is the real world, how was Smith able to download himself into a human brain? That's like trying to play a CD by putting it in a toaster.
Why would Merv want the Oracle's eyes? Since when does a computer program have eyes?
Why do Sentinels suck so much at combat? The kill ratio between humans and machines looked to be about 500:1. Makes me wonder how the machines won the war in the first place. Most of the time the Sentinels seemed more intent on putting on a flying exhibition than actually fighting.
If EMPs are such bloody powerful weapons against the machines, why isn't there a single one (let alone dozens) in the dock? Oh wait, it would knock down their defenses. Oh wait, it doesn't knock down the defenses on the ships, so why would the dock be any different? Oh wait, why not make EMP weapons with a smaller effective radius?
Since when can Smith fly? He couldn't a few hours ago.
Programs have to be productive members of society or face deletion? Sounds like machine society really sucks.
These two lovey-dovey programs have been talking to the Oracle, and therefore must know roughly what's going down in the Matrix, yet they choose to ship their "daughter" off there anyway?
Why is Smith taking over the Matrix a problem for the machines? The human bodies are still generating power, and as this film went to great lengths to establish, the only way in or out is through the train station. In the real world, this probably means the physical network connections to the Matrix simulators out in the fields are limited and tightly controlled. Just cut them.
On the other hand, apparently you can cut every cable in the breaker room of one of the humans' hovercraft, and it will still run just fine.
I think I'm going to like this movie less and less the more I think about it. Ugh.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Also, what did Neo do to block all the ballistic projectiles they were lobbing at him?
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And again, if Zion is the real world, how was Smith able to download himself into a human brain? That's like trying to play a CD by putting it in a toaster.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Since when can Smith fly? He couldn't a few hours ago.
Originally posted by ubermetroidThat's a logical conclusion (and apparently supported by the game), but it doesn't justify the annoying tapdancing the movie did around what actually happened.
She was killed. Merv had her taken out. She then came back, but she had to get a new shell
Well, seeing how she can see into the future, she really does not need to have much protection, does she?My question wasn't so much the degree of protection, as the degree of slumming. She doesn't seem to have nearly the power you'd expect from the co-creator of the Matrix.
I thought this was explained pretty well. ... He was able to hack in and have the things self destruct.I could swear I saw big flaming balls of energy being fired. How do you hack a ball of energy?
He still has Machine parts in him. (The plugs and such). Maybe he also has wireless that no one else has?Doubtful. With all the medical scans they ran on him when they first pulled him out, they would have noticed that.
This was coverend in #2. Zion exists because of the unbalanced equation that blah, blah, blah.No, the "choice to reject the program" exists because of the unbalanced equation. The people in the Matrix don't know that Zion exists at any level. If someone decides to reject the program, fine. They wake up and get flushed. Zion is superfluous at best, and a nuisance at worst.
Maybe the other reason Zion exists is because the Machines wanted to give the humans a chance to start the peace process again.Maybe. But the movie doesn't even hint at this.
He was able to download himself. That is was he learned todo. He is a virus after all.He learned to subvert avatar programs in the Matrix simulation. This is a far, far cry from reprogramming yourself from scratch to execute on an utterly alien chunk of hardware (a human brain). Even then, there's little chance the cyberjack would be physically equipped to rewire an entire human brain in an instant. There's absolutely no need for it to connect to anything beyond the central nervous system.
They must fight like a bunch of bugs.These machines are a hell of a lot smarter than bugs. Yet they flew around in giant swarms either ignoring the defenders, or flying directly into their guns in a convenient column. With the numbers of Sentinels shown, they should have picked that chamber clean in under 5 minutes.
The Matrix is connected to all Machines by the power sorce. If Smith was not destroyed he would have taken over everything. Neo says so near the end of the movie. They need the power to live so why would they cut the lines?Please attempt to differentiate between a DATA line and a POWER line.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
My question wasn't so much the degree of protection, as the degree of slumming. She doesn't seem to have nearly the power you'd expect from the co-creator of the Matrix.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
These machines are a hell of a lot smarter than bugs. Yet they flew around in giant swarms either ignoring the defenders, or flying directly into their guns in a convenient column. With the numbers of Sentinels shown, they should have picked that chamber clean in under 5 minutes.
Originally posted by LevyathanDon't the machines know that the best defense is a good offense?
The main objective was to reach the city. Considering the number of Sentinels that were put down due to attacks targeted at the drill machine, it's possible that they were doing exactly what was supposed to be done.
These machines are a hell of a lot smarter than bugs. Yet they flew around in giant swarms either ignoring the defenders, or flying directly into their guns in a convenient column. With the numbers of Sentinels shown, they should have picked that chamber clean in under 5 minutes.
Originally posted by TrashMan
Have you any idea how powerfull a minigun is. Todays minigun fire at a rate from 6000-24000 bullets a minute!!! (that's 100-400 bullets per second...for a comparison, standard rifles fire 3-4 bullets per sec).
I suppose in the future the miniguns are even more powerfull.
If anything, too many Sentinels survived.
With several hunderds of such guns aimed at the opening - NOTHING SHOULD HAVE SURVIVED AT ALL!!!!
Count...every mech had 2 such miniguns....how many defenders were there? Let's say 200?
In that case the opening was bombarded with 400000 bullets each second!:eek2:
Originally posted by ZylonBane
The machines have apparently never heard of the Maginot Line.
Originally posted by Knight TemplarNo human except Neo knows the code of an Agent. All anyone else knows is what they've observed.
So in theory, when Smith takes over your body in the matrix, your brain would tell you he should take over in real life. Your brain supplies all of Smith's code, because it know's it from the Matrix.
Originally posted by Su-tehpUmmm.... no. I meant what I said. If you don't see the parallel in Neo's inflitration of the machine city, then I can't help you.
Apparently, what ZylonBane meant is that it was the Zionites who never heard of the Maginot Line.
Originally posted by TrashManThe Sentinels in Revolutions could be destroyed with harsh language. Anyway, some review I read compared their flight patterns with the bonus stages in Galaga. That guy got it right. By sticking to huge swarms, they gave the defenders easy targets. They should have broken up, filling the dome with a uniform cloud of Sentinels. Then they could have mauled each defender from all sides at once, with perfect coordination.
Sentinels got destroyed by the bullets in the movie...
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Apparently, what ZylonBane meant is that it was the Zionites who never heard of the Maginot Line.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Ummm.... no. I meant what I said. If you don't see the parallel in Neo's inflitration of the machine city, then I can't help you.
Originally posted by Su-tehp
With strategic stupidity like this, is it any wonder the French never won a war?
Originally posted by Knight TemplarAgents don't assimilate people. They usurp control over their avatars (or "shells" as Revolutions called them). Smith's unique powers are that he can copy his code instead of simply moving it, AND he can absorb other programs (which I also have a problem with, since programs apparently use the same avatar/shell interface to the Matrix as humans). It's not known if Agents can do this too-- I can't think of any situation where it would have been an option.
You get assimilated by Smith in the matrix and your mind is assimilated by Smith in real life. Your mind is obviously capable of being assimilated within the matrix, and your real life body feels what your matrix body does apparently, so it would explain how he took control of Bane.
Originally posted by Nico
First:
Mmmh... f.uck you? yes, f.uck you, that's good enough. Heard that too many times to be diplomatic. I could explain to you why the germans went through Belgium to avoid the Maginot Line, why, they "forgot" they had a treaty with them, how many wars we actually won on our own compared to the USA (2 wars for you, right? you're far behind, man), how much I dispise people like you, but I think the list is enough, I don't want to elaborate. Geez, even in a thread about matrix, I have to bear tards like you.
ANYWAY...
War doesn't determine who's right. It determines who's left.
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Damn, I didn't even know that any Frenchmen frequented this board. Ah, well, that's what I get for being completely undiplomatic. I deserved Nico's rant, I admit it freely. :nod:
Still, I feel, as a good American, that I am honorbound to dispute Nico's contention that the USA has only won "2 wars on its own," but since I'm not sure what he meant by that, I'll keep my big gob shut until I find out what I'm talking about.
Fair's fair, after all. :)
Originally posted by KazanUnfortunately, that also describes the degree of logic demonstrated by the official explanations.
any theory you have that contradicts what we saw in the movies is exactly "Horse ****"
Originally posted by ZylonBane
*stuff*
Originally posted by ZylonBane
I could swear I saw big flaming balls of energy being fired. How do you hack a ball of energy?
Doubtful. With all the medical scans they ran on him when they first pulled him out, they would have noticed that.
He learned to subvert avatar programs in the Matrix simulation. This is a far, far cry from reprogramming yourself from scratch to execute on an utterly alien chunk of hardware (a human brain). Even then, there's little chance the cyberjack would be physically equipped to rewire an entire human brain in an instant. There's absolutely no need for it to connect to anything beyond the central nervous system.
These machines are a hell of a lot smarter than bugs. Yet they flew around in giant swarms either ignoring the defenders, or flying directly into their guns in a convenient column. With the numbers of Sentinels shown, they should have picked that chamber clean in under 5 minutes.
Please attempt to differentiate between a DATA line and a POWER line.
Originally posted by StunaepI think it's because I liked the structure of Revolutions better. Unfortunately the details supporting the structure sucked.
How on earth could you have enjoyed Revolutions more than you did Reloaded.
Originally posted by Bobboau
yet were suposed to just accept that all that crap he can do is be case... he just can
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
Noo! Its all real! I believe it! Don't say its not! AAARGH!
*Jumps out of window.*
"Neo I believe!" *Splat*
But I agree with you. Its just a movie in the end. With many plot holes. Oh well.
Originally posted by SinghStories are supposed to abide by their own rules. The premise of the Matrix, however unlikely, was firmly defined-- People made machines, machines took over, made people into batteries. Any super powers in the Matrix come from exploiting it. Outside the Matrix, people are just ordinary, everyday people. That is the premise the first film hammered into us.
Umm......yeah.
Its not reality, just a story
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And on a complete tangent, I only recently tweaked to the fact that since only humans are jacked into the Matrix, that means that every single animal is actually a program. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes.
Kinda makes you want to keep an eye on your dog though. And so much for trying to communicate with dolphins.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
And on a complete tangent, I only recently tweaked to the fact that since only humans are jacked into the Matrix, that means that every single animal is actually a program. Yeah, I'm slow sometimes.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
The chain of events in Reloaded was so painfully contrived, it was like something directly out of a video game. The whole movie had Our Heroes running from point A to point B to point C, battling a mini-boss here and there (who always knew they were coming), collecting items for their quest, and culminating with one of the laziest cliches of gaming, the timed sequence.
Originally posted by Rictor
When Smith assimilated the Oracle, you could see that when he looked around he had this amazed look on hs face, lke he saw everything in a new light. This is why he laughed (I actualy quite likd that part, it makes sense in the context) becuase he realized he had this cool new power.
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you know that the Matrix isn't real, then nothing can harm you. If you get shot, you just have to realize its not real, and they won't harm you.
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you know the laws of gravity etc aren't real, then if you can move at speed X while living the illusion, and at speed 3X while unplugged, then why not at speed 100X or 1000X or at infinite speed. If you know the laws of physics are just an illusion, then you can totally ignore them, not just bend them slightly. Or if you like, you can bend them alot, so you move at speeds which no agent will be able to match.
Originally posted by Rictor
-Why is Neo special? What he is able to do, he does as a result of the realisation that he can do whatever he wants in the Matrix. Wouldn't it be logical that EVERYONE else who has been unplugged has come to this same realisation? I would think that everyone would be able to be like Neo inside the Matrix and then some.
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you simply unplugged everyone from the Matrix, then like 99.99% of people would die from starvarion, exposure or just from drowning in that big lake (or whatever) into which you get ejected. You can't very well just release 6 billions (maybe more) people out into the world, with no food, no shelter and no nothing. However, the machines would be able to survive to some degree and would most likely be able to wipe ou the rest of humanity. Simple freeing everyone insde the Matrix is not the way to win the war. Well it is, but it would also wipe out the vast majority of the human race, and the machines would mop up what was left.
Originally posted by Rictor
- What happened in the end? I don't think the machines decided to just let everyone go who wanted to go. I think maybe the Oracle was reffering to programs, not humans.
Originally posted by Rictor
-The war is over? No its not. The machines just stopped their attack on Zion. They still know where it is, they can still take it out. They still have the Matrix around. Humanity is still enslaved. The war isn't over.The only thing that has changed, is that THIS time, Zion was left in a slightly better chape that before (aka destroyed), and also the people in Zion didn't die to they have knowledge of what came before so it not all one big circle.
Originally posted by Rictor
-If you can mount EMPs on ships, why not on buildings. They could easily have like 10-100 EMPS inside Zion, and they only needed 2 actually. One would be to take out the first wave, and then another to take out the second wave. It makes alot of sense for Zion to have a ton of EMP defences.
Originally posted by Rictor
-One part that I don't understand is how Neo can control machines in the real world. One theory tha would explain this is if there were multiple Matrix layers, but this isn't the case. Even though he has machine code (or whatever) in his mind, his body is still human. And as far as I know, the human body is not capable of transimitting any signal at all, much less one that could distrupt a machine.
Originally posted by Rictor
-I have NO idea what happened at the end there. Was the Matrix just reset? I don' think it was.
Originally posted by Rictor
-Neo didn't sacrifice himself, he was defeated. Or maybe, he let himself be defeated, becuase he knew the only way to kill Smith was to let himself be absorbed. Dont know.
Originally posted by Rictor
-The choice that the Oracle was reffering to (her choice, the one she had to make), it might the following: let Neo sacrifice himself and really achieve nothing in the end, or set him on the path that would result in him doing what every other The One has done before and just continue the circle. It was probably not too late to get on that path, and she did mention that it was harder to make a choice knowing full well the consequences, which would imply that she had made that choice before, which would imply that the previous The Ones had come to the point where it was up to the Oracle, which means that they all took the "Save Trinity" door and not the "Save Humanity" door.
Originally posted by Rictor
-How do we know that our Neo was different than all the previous ones by choosing the "Save Trinity" door. I don't remember the Architect ever saying which door they choose, just implying it. Or even if he did say it, he might have been lying. He is a machine afterall, and wants to work for the benefit f the machines. So "nudging" Neo towards the "Save Trinity" door would be his way of doing what was best for machine-kind, since we know that it turned out well for the machines in the end. I wonder what would have happened if Neo saw through the facade and chose the "Save Humanity" door, which might have actually been better for humanity and not worse, as the Architect implyed. The Architect also mentione that Neo was the first to manifest love, so the "Save Trinity" door might have been somthing esle for the previous The Ones (such as Save Oracle or Save Morpheus) becuase the Archtect mentioned that Neo was the first to manifest the emotion of love, but that all the previous ones had manifested some other emotion (I can remember the exact line) which might have persuaded the to not choose the "Save Humanity" door out of some emotion such as duty, honour or whatever.
Originally posted by Levyathan
Neo is always connected to the Source. Through the Source he is able to manipulate machine code. That's also how he sees the machines after having his eyes burnt.
Originally posted by LevyathanI didn't miss it, and the bit about the birds being programs seemed so self-evident that I didn't give it a second thought. However, at the time I only considered the information in the context that it was presented-- background creatures like birds, rats, insects, etc.
So you missed the conversation between Neo and the Oracle in Reloaded?
Originally posted by Stunaep
Right. How?
Originally posted by Levyathan
The answer to this is simple: that's not how it works.
Originally posted by Levyathan
It's not just a matter of knowing it's a simulation. Notice the jump scene in The Matrix. At that point, Neo already knows he's inside a computer simulation, yet he is unable to ignore the laws of physics in order to get to the other building.
Originally posted by Levyathan
This continues my previous point. In order to bend the rules of the simulation, you need a certain level of understanding. The whole first movie is about that, it's Neo's path to enlightenment. Being the One, he is able to 'free his mind' to degrees unimaginable to common people.
Originally posted by Levyathan
I'm not sure what your point is. It's not like everyone was instantly freed after Revolutions.
Originally posted by Levyathan
Nope, they were talking about human beings.
Originally posted by Levyathan
The war is over. Humanity is no longer enslaved. If you choose to stay plugged into the Matrix, it's not much of a prison anymore.
Originally posted by Levyathan
What about the third wave? What about the countless other waves that would attack if the previous ones were defeated? Zion never had any chance.
Originally posted by Levyathan
Neo is always connected to the Source. Through the Source he is able to manipulate machine code. That's also how he sees the machines after having his eyes burnt.
Originally posted by Levyathan
Yes, it was reloaded. Not exactly like the previous times, though.
Originally posted by Levyathan
I'll let you figure this out by yourself.
Originally posted by Levyathan
The choice the Oracle had to make was to help or not to help Neo. She chose to help, by letting Smith take over her.
Originally posted by Levyathan
First of all, it was not the 'save Trinity' door. It was the 'back to the Matrix' door. The Architect never said Neo would be able to save Trinity by choosing the left door - he said said she would die no matter what door Neo chose.
Also, the previous five Ones did choose the right door. Otherwise either humanity would no longer exist or they would have found a way to break the cycle.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
I didn't miss it, and the bit about the birds being programs seemed so self-evident that I didn't give it a second thought. However, at the time I only considered the information in the context that it was presented-- background creatures like birds, rats, insects, etc.
You'll note that there are few if any large or companion animals shown in The Matrix. Probably precisely because it would distract the audience into wondering what sort of human-friendly AIs run them.
Originally posted by ubermetroid
WiFi. Or what ever is the latest thing in 600 years. :wtf:
Originally posted by Levyathan
It's not just a matter of knowing it's a simulation. Notice the jump scene in The Matrix. At that point, Neo already knows he's inside a computer simulation, yet he is unable to ignore the laws of physics in order to get to the other building.
This continues my previous point. In order to bend the rules of the simulation, you need a certain level of understanding. The whole first movie is about that, it's Neo's path to enlightenment. Being the One, he is able to 'free his mind' to degrees unimaginable to common people.
Originally posted by ubermetroid
Now to be Neo you need to know how to input the cheat codes. Neo was the only one that was truely able to press ` and type in GOD and NOCLIP.
Originally posted by Rictor
Why not? The Matrix series seems to be fairly good at keeping up with its own internal logic, so why not this? Keep in mind, this is just a logical reasoning of what the experience should be like, not what it actually is. It would probably not be so simple if it were really to happen, but it just seems to be a matter of being in control of your own mind
Originally posted by Rictor
Thats right, but it was the first jump; the first time he's ever done it. It stands to reason that he would improve with time. If i were in that situation, I'de just calmly walk across, on the air....:):)
Originally posted by Rictor
Yup, I think thats what Morpheus was reffering to when he said "There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path". There's a difference between knowing its not real, and believing its not real. However, it seems to be thats its just a matter of self discipline and control over your mind, which could be the answer to the question, since most people dont seem to be very good at that.
Originally posted by Rictor
I'm not quite sure here. The first time I saw the movie, (well the only time) I immediatly thought they were reffering to machines. Its not until I read other people's view on the subject that I even considered the possibility that they were talking about humans. Its just that, it kinda makes sense since there was alot of talk about exiled programs, especially in Revolutions.
Originally posted by Rictor
As well, I still don't believe machines would just let humanity go. Its not logical. And from what I can gather, the Machine Mainframe (whatever its called, the machine "leadership") functions on logic, not emotion (such as compation) so they would really have no reason to honour their promise to Neo, since honour is not something that is very high on the machine's priority list.
Originally posted by Rictor
Again, I dont believe the machines would let humanity choose. They have no reason to do so, other than their promise to Neo, and who says that machines feel honour-bound to follow up on their promises. They are clearly stronger, they still need the humans to survive so really they have no reason to let them go.
Originally posted by Rictor
Well, from what I've seen, the machines sent in an attack wave to kill off Zion. Once the Hammer hit the EMP, the first wave went down, and the machines sent in all the remaining Sentinels to take advantage of the situation. I don't think it was ever intended for the second wave to go in. Also, Locke (I think) said that the machines would send all their remaining forces to strike Zion while it was disabled. So that means that the first wave+the second wave =most of the machine army. 10 or so EMPs would certainly be enough to handle any additional waves, which would probably be so small that they could be taken care of by the APU squads (assuming they were kept a safe distance away from the EMPs as a backup plan).
Originally posted by Rictor
This is why Neo and Trinity had such an easy time getting to the machine city, all the Sentinel forces were otherwise engaged.
Originally posted by Rictor
Hmm, don't quite understand this. From what I know, Neo still has a human body. And a human body is not capable of broadcasting signals.
Originally posted by Rictor
I just don't buy it. The whole Matrix story has to achieve something more than "a slight improvement over previous times". Its got be have a greater impact.
Originally posted by Rictor
But what if thats what happened the previous times. The Architect could have been lying about Zion having been destroyed and Neo choosing X men and Y women to remake it. In that case, the Oracle would have to choose between doing what she did (talking to Neo, letting Smith assimilate her) and simply continue the circle, or telling Neo how to really make a change.
Originally posted by Rictor
Assuming he was telling the truth. Its just that once people see some guy in ahite suit who looks like he knows whats going on, they assume that he is a source of truthful information. Remember, even the programs (the Architect, the Oracle) have their own agendas.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
What I wanna know is- right, they've got this simulation of New York City, right (only 5 million humans left alive, then, but that's irrelevant)? And they establish pretty well that they can't handle anything bigger- Neo never bothers with it, Smith never bothers with it, everyone who's relevant in any way to the story lives somewhere in NY. New York is the world to them.
Originally posted by Kamikazesmacks Kamikaze with a rolled-up copy of Moore's Law
Wouldn't the megacluster required to compute the matrix require more power than humans could ever produce?
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Why use the matrix anyway? Why not just plug the humans up into some chemical-injection system so they can have joyous orgies day and night instead of this "real life" stuff? Really, a bunch of orgasmic humans are a lot safer than the people who are plugged into "real life", though a bit messy. ;)
Originally posted by ZylonBaneReminds ZylonBane that even Moore doesn't think Moore's Law can last much longer.
smacks Kamikaze with a rolled-up copy of Moore's Law
Originally posted by Stryke 9
That the Oracle and Whatsisname just happened to land in this one place? It'd be a terrible stretch to say there's anything else out there- and it's a concept the movie ignores entirely.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Levy: From the fact that they specify that it's a simulation of New York in the first Matrix. From the fact that everything, absolutely everything, occurs somewhere in or immediately around Manhattan Island. From the fact that nowhere do they even mention the concept of non-New Yorkers, except when specifically referring to the people in Zion or whatever. You're gonna tell me that they've got an entire planet there, but they just happened to cluster everything of any even potential significance at all in a ten-square-mile area? That the Oracle and Whatsisname just happened to land in this one place? It'd be a terrible stretch to say there's anything else out there- and it's a concept the movie ignores entirely.
Originally posted by Rictor
9 PAGES?! HAVE YOU PEOPLE NO MERCY!!
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Everything's better with nuclear explosions.
Originally posted by Rictor
Well, I don't see why animals wouldn't be in the same situation as humans. They still generate heat and power, so they would also be useful to the machines.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
From the fact that they specify that it's a simulation of New York in the first Matrix.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
From the fact that everything, absolutely everything, occurs somewhere in or immediately around Manhattan Island.
Originally posted by Stryke 9
From the fact that nowhere do they even mention the concept of non-New Yorkers
Originally posted by KamikazeIf by 60 you mean 6000, then yes. Wasn't he in the Swiss Alps?
We know for a fact that there's more space, in Reloaded Neo ended up in some mountains that were 60 miles, or something to that effect, away.
Neo: Oh ****.
Link: Operator.
Neo: Link, where am I?
Link: You're not gonna believe this, but you're all the way up in the mountains.
Neo: Really.
Link: Yeah, it's gonna take me a while to get up an exit. Oh ****.
Neo: What?
Link: Those Twin things are after Morpheus and Trinity, and I don't have a way to get them out.
Neo: Where are they?
Link: Middle of the City, 500 miles due south.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Hmm. For some reason I thought he was on the other side of the planet.
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Or they could just be in a computer world...:rolleyes:
I K|\|0\/\/!!!1111 |\30 (DA DUDE!!!1111) |_|53|) |_|83R |_337 94|\/|1|\|9 |-|4(|
:D
Originally posted by PhReAk
hmm.. i've been thinking about revolutions and the architect's little spiel at the end of the reloaded. the architect said Neo was to return to the source to save humanity. I'm thinking that the "source" was not actually the door on the right, but the machine city where Deus Ex Machina is (God from machine, rather fitting ;)). When neo went to the city he saved humanity for the time being. This may have been already said in this thread, but i haven't read that much
Originally posted by an0nUhh... no. The doors existed in the Matrix. The machine city is in the real world. For a virtual door to lead to a real-world location would have been quite a trick. Also, I thought it was fairly clear that the One wouldn't be killed after entering the Source, and in fact had historically gone on to found the next iteration of Zion.
......They both lead to the source you fools. The right door lead straight to the machine city (where he would've just been killed by the machine)
Originally posted by an0n
I now know what that robot was at the end, the one that carried Neo away.
It was the black guy from the train station. Ramakandra.
He's the "power-plant's systems manager for recycling operations". Which means it's his job to keep those 'liquify the dead' robots doing the right job(s). And since he's a big, powerful, middle-management type who lived in the city, the big-ass robot was probably his body.
Originally posted by an0n
I just started watching it over again and I've come to my first new point of interest:
I now know what that robot was at the end, the one that carried Neo away.
It was the black guy from the train station. Ramakandra.
He's the "power-plant's systems manager for recycling operations". Which means it's his job to keep those 'liquify the dead' robots doing the right job(s). And since he's a big, powerful, middle-management type who lived in the city, the big-ass robot was probably his body.
Originally posted by Stealth
oooh yeah. good point. i never really thought of that.
although wait a second, wasn't that Indian (Arab) guy from the station just a regular program? programs don't operate the machines though, they only work inside the Matrix, don't the machines run themselves?
Originally posted by 01010
I had a thought today, when the Logos crashed in machine city, (if it had been possible) what would the outcome of the films had been if they had used the EMP rather than Neo going to see Deus Ex Machina?
Originally posted by 01010It would have knocked out the Machine city up to the radius of the EMP. Then Sentinels would have come and killed Neo.
I had a thought today, when the Logos crashed in machine city, (if it had been possible) what would the outcome of the films had been if they had used the EMP rather than Neo going to see Deus Ex Machina?
Originally posted by ZylonBane
Simply networking to the Matrix wouldn't be any sort of hiding place at all. The whole idea of rogue programs hiding in the Matrix is to get their executing code off systems controlled directly by the MCP. This reinforces the implication that the Matrix is somewhat of a sealed system.
As for the Machine/Program dichotomy... there's no logical reason to assume that a given program is irrevocably tied to a given piece of hardware. Revolutions established this with the machine "couple" Neo met.
Originally posted by an0n
The Machines can't control the Matrix. They don't have the permissions.
Only the Architect can do that.
Originally posted by Knight TemplarI really want to whack people with a wrench when they pursue this line of thought. The balance people keep squawking about in the Matrix films is primarily a philosophical concept. The idea that, "OMG if Ne0 dies than all teh Smiths die becuz of that thing the Oracle said about him being his oposite!" is bull****. This is the sort of hopelessly fuzzy thinking that also has no problem with Neo being able to wirelessly connect to the Matrix.
... the whole balancing of the equation thing, meaning it has to be balanced all the time. So if neo goes, Smith would go.
Originally posted by ZylonBane
I really want to whack people with a wrench when they pursue this line of thought. The balance people keep squawking about in the Matrix films is primarily a philosophical concept. The idea that, "OMG if Ne0 dies than all teh Smiths die becuz of that thing the Oracle said about him being his oposite!" is bull****. This is the sort of hopelessly fuzzy thinking that also has no problem with Neo being able to wirelessly connect to the Matrix.
Originally posted by 01010
...his sole aim is to destroy Neo. Once he achieves that aim he has no reason to exist and he kinda just self destructs. I dunno, it's kinda a loose theory but it sort of fits to me.
Originally posted by Setekh
Yeah, it is loose - and it ignores Smith's own declaration that he wants 'everything' (destroying Neo = everything? questionable). I like ZB's theory - Smith was connected to DEM via Neo, allowing DEM to devise and distribute an anti-virus into Smith and destroy him.
Originally posted by 01010
My memory is shot to bits so I don't remember Smith stating that. My bad. I must admit, I do like the way a lot of the film is open to interpretation, but there are too mant important pieces of plot that seem to just happen without much explanation as to why.
Originally posted by Setekh
Smith was connected to DEM via Neo, allowing DEM to devise and distribute an anti-virus into Smith and destroy him.
Originally posted by Stunaep
Well, to sum up, The W brothers never intended it to be three movies. That's clear now.
Die, hollywood, die.
Originally posted by ubermetroid
Spoiler for the Matrix Comics...
Has anybody read the comics? On one of the storys that Machines fight Aliens! I am telling the truth!
The story is a good read so I suggest you get the comic and read it... If not I guess I could post a write up about what happened... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well, Aliens turn up all over the place. I assume you mean Aliens as in 'Alien' and 'Aliens' and so forth, anyway. I belive Superman fought them once...
Originally posted by Nico
If they really did plan 3 movies, what's with the rush to get the two others out? That makes no sense, they would have done the sme as Jackson did for the LotR trilogy, they would have shot all the scenes at the same time, then refined the CGI stuff later, releasing one movie after the other.
Originally posted by Nico
Superman did, and so did Tarzan and terminator ( that's true ).
I wonder if Bugs Bunny didn't fight them at some point :p
Originally posted by Flipside
Marvin the Martian ;)
Originally posted by Nico
You're joking, right? You probably know that for matrix reloaded alone, they had more cash than Jackson for his whole trilogy? limited cash my ass.
As for convincing New Line, there was no such thing. They would agree, or they wouldn't. It's not coz Jackson would say "come on, it's gonna be great!" that they will let him do it. They studied the possibilities, and they decided it would work. That's it.
If matrix was planed as a trilogy from the begining, everybody would have known it before the first movie started. It's exactly the same deal than with Starwars. In each case, the first movie works well as a standalone ( and in the matrix case, it still works well as a stand alone movie :doubt: ). They left it open ended in case it would be a hit, but that's it. Matrix plot was well thought, the 2 and 3 are rushed. I repeat: RUSHED. They would have spent more time on the plot, and less on the CGI, the movies would have been better.
Originally posted by karajorma
Besides I remember reading an article BEFORE the matrix came out where the W brothers said it was a trilogy.
Originally posted by Nico
If they really did plan 3 movies, what's with the rush to get the two others out? That makes no sense, they would have done the sme as Jackson did for the LotR trilogy, they would have shot all the scenes at the same time, then refined the CGI stuff later, releasing one movie after the other.
Originally posted by Nico
Think that if they did the normal way, you'd only just get the second movie right now. Would you be that hot to get the third one in ne year? After the big disapointment of the second opus? I think not. That's all marketing.
Originally posted by Nico
You're joking, right? You probably know that for matrix reloaded alone, they had more cash than Jackson for his whole trilogy? limited cash my ass.
Originally posted by 01010
I must admit, I do like the way a lot of the film is open to interpretation,