Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on November 09, 2003, 03:07:55 pm

Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 09, 2003, 03:07:55 pm
Sorry I haven't done this earlier, got distracted by other things...:rolleyes:

But anyway.....

My upgraded Orion Turrets Mini-project is completed!:yes:
Image!
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/New-Orion.jpg)

Download!
http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Orion_Upgrade.zip

For background, see this thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,18240.0.html
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Ulala on November 09, 2003, 03:14:37 pm
:yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Bobboau on November 09, 2003, 03:14:52 pm
the turrets do look very nice, but now you need to up the poly count on the hull :D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 09, 2003, 03:15:43 pm
:nod:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Darkage on November 09, 2003, 04:23:21 pm
Very cool new turrets. They actualy look like turrets now.

It would be cool if the SCP guys could implent reciol on the barrel when it fired a weapon.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: karajorma on November 09, 2003, 04:50:02 pm
Nice work Raptor :D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 09, 2003, 04:56:51 pm
Very cool. Now make some for AotD ;7
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Drew on November 09, 2003, 05:03:18 pm
ooo nice turrets :D
i think those turrets look cooler with longer barrels but still they look sweet mans! :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Whitelight on November 09, 2003, 05:03:31 pm
Perfection, dude...

Now it has real turrets. ;) ;) :D

Thanks Raptor, its been a long awaited upgrade..:yes: :yes:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: diamondgeezer on November 09, 2003, 05:28:39 pm
Yay! :yes: :yes: :yes:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Reppyboyo on November 09, 2003, 05:34:14 pm
very cool  :yes:

Now update the hull :D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Flaser on November 09, 2003, 06:45:52 pm
I actually think they should have shorter and wider barrels, since they are more mortars than canons.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Fineus on November 09, 2003, 06:47:05 pm
Re-texture the ship. I suddenly realised I hate the Orion skin, it's totally out of place with Terran ships.

Nice work btw ;)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Galemp on November 09, 2003, 07:24:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
I suddenly realised I hate the Orion skin, it's totally out of place with Terran ships.


...

...

Traitor.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Hippo on November 09, 2003, 07:45:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Galemp


...

...

Traitor.


:nod: :nod: :nod:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Solatar on November 09, 2003, 07:57:44 pm
It's sorta ugly...not to mention completely design flawed. I mean, there's little patchs of purple armor, but beyond that almost nothing. All the fs2 ships are like that...even the Fenris with it's parts showing.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Drew on November 09, 2003, 07:59:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
I suddenly realised I hate the Orion skin, it's totally out of place with Terran ships.

:hopping: :hopping:  ;)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 09, 2003, 08:06:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Solatar
patchs of purple armor,  


I said it was purple once, and everyone told me I was seeing things. Thank you.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 09, 2003, 09:00:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Very cool. Now make some for AotD ;7


Yes..
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 09, 2003, 09:06:50 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Re-texture the ship. I suddenly realised I hate the Orion skin, it's totally out of place with Terran ships.


It is fugly, isn't it?

Orion is way up there on my list of ships that really ought never have been built, starting with the textures and going on up through the overall design of the ship.

Hey, its kinda like the original Mjolnir... *hrm*

Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Nico on November 09, 2003, 09:10:18 pm
I like the orion design, and the mapping never bothered me :)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: gevatter Lars on November 09, 2003, 09:24:04 pm
I would halfe the turrets high...beside that good idea.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 09, 2003, 09:39:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
I like the orion design, and the mapping never bothered me :)


Yeah, but you like Denise Richards, Venom. Your taste is suspect. ;)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 09, 2003, 10:13:12 pm
:wtf:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Nico on November 09, 2003, 10:37:58 pm
Denise Richards is hot, so there's nothing wrong with my tastes :p
Chicks put aside, I like boxy ships, what can I say? :p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 09, 2003, 10:46:02 pm
Not to bager you too much Raptor, but would you be able to make twin-fighter-ramp versions of these models, like the one Woo made on that thread that started it all?  I'd realy like to use your model in my campaign, but I've already changed things to include a twin-ramp model.  Also, should you decide to grant my request, I would also suggest moving the dockpoint of said model, as the original was offset to the left to avoid the main lower probe thingy.  With the probe now on both sides, it gets in the way of the dockpoint.  I'd suggest centering it and moving it forward somewhat.  Cool design by the way!

Later!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 09, 2003, 10:47:44 pm
No, she most certainly isn't. She beast. But that's beside the point.


Boxes are okay. Ugly boxes though--and the Orion is nothing if not ugly--should not be suffered.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Shrike on November 09, 2003, 10:48:00 pm
Can't say I really like the turrets.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Setekh on November 10, 2003, 01:35:21 am
Well, I dunno, I really like the Orion - model and texture. But I'm no expert. The Orion is FreeSpace itself, to me. I mean, the Bastion!

Ah well, good job with that edit, bro. :)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Bobboau on November 10, 2003, 02:28:06 am
if you'r not sure about those modifications, just wait untill BWO
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Bobboau on November 10, 2003, 02:35:04 am
oops
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Gloriano on November 10, 2003, 03:12:06 am
*
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
if you'r not sure about those modifications, just wait untill BWO


still..waiting...still...waiting *eye's getting heavier....what:nervous:

i like those turrets
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 10, 2003, 05:18:42 am
Phew.. 28 replies overnight!:eek2:

Thanks guys, took me a while to sort this out.

I actually kinda like the Orion, although it is asymetrical and has unblanced weapon arrays..:blah: Aways thought it was one of the better textured :V: ships, personally.

Denise Richards is a very good looking woman mikhael.  Then again I try to base my views of people by personalitly, not apperance:nervous:

Trivial Psychic, I would have a Twin-Launch-Bayed version, but PCS refuses to convert it (it dosn't even give me an error message, just rolls over and dies:mad: ) I do have a TS pic  for you though:
(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/TwinHullOrion.jpg)

Shrike: well, can't please everyone:sigh:

Raa Tor'h and KT, don't sweat. Check the AotD internal;7
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Fineus on November 10, 2003, 05:23:43 am
Don't get me wrong - the texturing job on the Orion is a good one. However I think it would look far better if it was re-done using better textures - the Fenris skin for example. The Vasudans and Shivans have a pretty good theme going, why do the terran have green, blue and grey ships? (and indeed brown... all sorts). They just seem kinda unthemed.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 10, 2003, 05:30:34 am
Ah, good point.  Guess V wanted a little variation(or a lot....:lol: )
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Gloriano on November 10, 2003, 05:36:44 am
Ka what's so wrong in Orion textures okay they look old but still are good fit in terran theme i would see little edited Orion texture little mix between new and old

some times i don't like them too much
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woomeister on November 10, 2003, 05:56:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Don't get me wrong - the texturing job on the Orion is a good one. However I think it would look far better if it was re-done using better textures - the Fenris skin for example.

Never planned to show this but meh :D
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/orionfenmaps.jpg
This was a wip that I never bothered to finnish. I made a fenris style tile set in case I ever had to map any more ships for the TVWP. It was designed more for cruiser but I tried using them on the Orion for my own amusement.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Setekh on November 10, 2003, 06:42:35 am
That doesn't look too bad, but the texture density probably needs to be upped a bit. :)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: c914 on November 10, 2003, 07:01:37 am
Those are mine:
http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-1-1070803433?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=0
http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-2-1070619828?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=1
(http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-3-1070965648?m=1&jpg)
:)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: kasperl on November 10, 2003, 10:22:48 am
there is a reskin of both the big C and the Orion floating around, very nice, it's black, and rahter well glowmapped. it really shows the size of those mammoths.

and i like these turrets, a lot.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 10, 2003, 10:28:13 am
I see your point, Steak. It is an iconic Freespace ship, but consider this: its only iconic because it was in Freespace. If they had used a different, better design, you would consider THAT design to be the iconic Freespace ship. As you said, " I mean, the Bastion!". The Bastion would have been that different, better design.

Raptor: I was making a back-reference to a conversation Venom and I had in a discussion about the Mara and the Medusa in an ancient thread. I don't want to be offensive, but your taste in women couldn't matter less to me.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woomeister on November 10, 2003, 10:42:51 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
That doesn't look too bad, but the texture density probably needs to be upped a bit. :)

Done and updated the image :)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Nico on November 10, 2003, 10:54:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Raptor: I was making a back-reference to a conversation Venom and I had in a discussion about the Mara and the Medusa in an ancient thread.


was quite old, indeed :D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Fineus on November 10, 2003, 11:26:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woomeister

Done and updated the image :)

Now that I like! Nice one!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Flaser on November 10, 2003, 11:29:31 am
I think the the Orion needs a special paint job!

It was the pride of the navy during the time it was built it was the most massive ship anyone could imagine.
2km = 2000 meters, that's more than huge.

No wonder they wanted to pimp them somewhat.

The assymetrical design is it's major charm IMHO.

What it lacks is some detail.

That model was optimised for 1998!

For it's age it's marvelous.
Beside there was another Orion WIP project a couple of moths ago (...or years) which showed the potential the initial design has.

As for assymetric weapons - the Orion is a flagship built in an era where loosing one was a major defeat.
It didn't need balanced weaponry, what it needed is concentrarted firepower to wipe out the bigger ships.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Fineus on November 10, 2003, 12:05:53 pm
He has a point, they don't look 2KM long... they really should look huge.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2003, 12:19:10 pm
:thepimp: My Orion MK3 is currently getting a (expert)paint job...:thepimp:

Will be done soon...me hopes....
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 10, 2003, 12:35:16 pm
Hehehe, sure it is... :rolleyes:

That's the DotA one that we're doing in exchange for that other thing?

...*snicker* :lol:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2003, 01:01:18 pm
YESSSSSSsssss......My Preciousssss

*calls Raa Tor'h in a corner......"shhhh.. not everybody needs to know aobut the unholy pact!"....*

I assume you're doing the texturing of the Orion and the Other Thing?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 10, 2003, 02:25:30 pm
Actually, Oddyssey did it. He's pretty quick.  You should be getting it sometime soon. I think atleast. I have little clout there, just a lacky...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Hippo on November 10, 2003, 02:48:20 pm
I like the orion as is... (the turrets ook good, but I liked the red stripe on the bottom)... Plus, the orion was a different era then the FS2 ships, so it should look different...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Liberator on November 10, 2003, 04:07:24 pm
All this talk about the textures on the Orion...you realize that the Deimos main gray texture and the green texture from the Collossus and Iceni is the same as the lavender one from the Orion, just recolored.  Right?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Solatar on November 10, 2003, 04:21:33 pm
Yeah, it's like ctile4 or something. I've put it on the Orion. Looks awesome.:D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Ulala on November 10, 2003, 04:28:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by c914
Those are mine:
http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-1-1070803433?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=0
http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-2-1070619828?m=1&pg=0&ro=0&co=1
(http://photo.starblvd.net/cnineonefour/1-1-3-1070965648?m=1&jpg)
:)


I don't much care for the original Orion textures either, however these make it look nicer and still keep some of the uhm... uniqueness the Orion has in its color. But yeah, a paint job would be nice.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2003, 05:56:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Actually, Oddyssey did it. He's pretty quick.  You should be getting it sometime soon. I think atleast. I have little clout there, just a lacky...


Tell Oddyssey to take his time...the sip has to look perfect!

B.t.w. - KT, you need another Other Thing?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 10, 2003, 06:01:30 pm
The ship is done, just need to know where you want it. And you did want the original Orion textures, right?

And I'll have to talk to the staff before we pick up anymore 'things'. I'm assuming you want fighters now, right?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2003, 06:24:04 pm
[email protected]   - send it here when it's done. I haven't specefied any texture job. I trust Oddyssey did a good job.

And yes...you know where I am if you ned anything...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 10, 2003, 06:36:22 pm
And it's off!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 10, 2003, 07:00:44 pm
You sent me the wrong ship..this is not my Orion....:nervous:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 10, 2003, 07:05:43 pm
Don't know why you posted this..

All I did was have Odd texture the file you sent me...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 11, 2003, 11:57:46 am
What's the polycount on this baby?

As for the jeers about the Orion's texturing job, I disagree. The Orion has GREAT textures.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 11, 2003, 12:02:29 pm
They looked awesome in FS1, but they lost something in the transition to FS2.  I'm not sure if it's the comparison to the Deimos or Hecate, or if it's just the overall cartoony appearance of the light arrangements on the orion or the rediculous areas that orion textures have to cover without repeating much that make it look so odd, but something about it has never sat particularly well with me.  Of course the fact that it has nearly no non-square angles doesn't help it out much either; some of those extrusions come out way too far and are way too square with the hull.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 11, 2003, 01:08:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
What's the polycount on this baby?


Normal 'original' armament version: 3390 polys total (thats all turrets, all lods, and all debris)

Upguned version: 3870 total
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 12, 2003, 03:34:27 am
I've decided to use your up-gunned Orion after all, but I noticed a problem... I was looking at it in Modview and I noticed that your LOD1 and LOD2 are reversed.

Later!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 12, 2003, 09:10:14 am
So there I was last night, looking at the Orion mesh (for no particular reason, honest ;7) and noticed that the :V: model violates all that is right and good for a Freespace ship mesh. Its got intersecting polys all over the place and coplanar polys. And now I know why you guys complained about the turrets so much (if that's what those little j-hook things are supposed to be).

This thing is beastly all the way across the board.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Ace on November 12, 2003, 11:37:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Don't get me wrong - the texturing job on the Orion is a good one. However I think it would look far better if it was re-done using better textures - the Fenris skin for example. The Vasudans and Shivans have a pretty good theme going, why do the terran have green, blue and grey ships? (and indeed brown... all sorts). They just seem kinda unthemed.


When FS started development, Terran ships had even less of a theme. The Ulysses was believe it or not, fully Terran. If was on the cutting board and then added again when someone said: "You know it looks sort of Terran and Vasudan..."

FS2 didn't help with Terran uniformity either, with the Boanerges and the Artemis having their own color schemes.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Ulala on November 12, 2003, 11:58:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Its got intersecting polys all over the place and coplanar polys...

...This thing is beastly all the way across the board.


Do I hear a hint of someone possibly.. remodelling her? ;) ;7 :p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 12, 2003, 05:21:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
So there I was last night, looking at the Orion mesh (for no particular reason, honest ;7) and noticed that the :V: model violates all that is right and good for a Freespace ship mesh. Its got intersecting polys all over the place and coplanar polys. And now I know why you guys complained about the turrets so much (if that's what those little j-hook things are supposed to be).

This thing is beastly all the way across the board.


And what rock have we been living under, hmmm? :p

You can't change the orion though. You can upgrade it or Mk.II - ViI it, but it's still the Symbol of early terran powah.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: pyro-manic on November 12, 2003, 06:17:27 pm
I personally love the orion - it's just looks like a big, hard-as-nails bastard of a ship. I think it's the slab-sided shape of it. The asymmetry is great as well - we need more ships like that.

The texture job is ok as well - it's just that the model is so low-poly that it looks like a brick compared  to the more recent stuff. Having said that, EAD Nemesis, anyone? There's a box with guns if there ever was one... :)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 12, 2003, 09:11:02 pm
Actually, KT, I think I can pretty much anything I want. Its up to whomever uses the mesh to decide how to use it and what to call it.

Right now the thing is a mess. If someone were to build this ship from scratch and arrive at the Orion now, the entire community would look at them as if they'd lost their mind. It breaks all the rules I've been told for designing capships, except maybe the 'no polys with more than 20 pts'. If I do rework this ship, I will clean up the geometry first then I will look at some of the textured views of the ship and model in some of those details. I may make changes here or there, including, but not limited to, improving the radar dishes, the chunky spiky arrays, the nose, the engines, and perhaps even the launch ramp. I might even redesign those little turrets in a more sane way, or mount the side turrets so they can be used proper multipart turrets.

pyro-maniac: asymmetry is a good thing if it adds interest to the ship. In the case of the Orion, it looks like a lot of the asymmetry is for the sake of being asymmetrical, and breaks what little aesthetic appeal the beast has.

Now, will someone tell me why the nose of the Orion--and no other part--is curved? And what's the glowy bit underneath it all about?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 13, 2003, 12:02:38 am
No, don't get me wrong. I'm all for Orion redesigning and seeing how it'd come out, just not Orion[/b] redesigning... if you get what I mean.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 13, 2003, 03:27:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
And now I know why you guys complained about the turrets so much (if that's what those little j-hook things are supposed to be).


Those are the small turrets, not as blaringly bad as the big multi-parts, but still:ick.

Why do you think I reworked them as well? (picture is not clear for them)

Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
I've decided to use your up-gunned Orion after all, but I noticed a problem... I was looking at it in Modview and I noticed that your LOD1 and LOD2 are reversed.

Later!


WHAT?
*goes checks modelveiw*
Oh man.
I got so worked up about LOD3 and LOD0 being switched INGAME, that I completely forgot to check the others. "ARRRRGH!":hopping:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 13, 2003, 11:49:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


Those are the small turrets, not as blaringly bad as the big multi-parts, but still:ick.

Why do you think I reworked them as well? (picture is not clear for them)



If you don't mind, Raptor, when I get done reworking the hull, you wanna put your turrets on it?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Trivial Psychic on November 14, 2003, 01:04:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
WHAT?
*goes checks modelveiw*
Oh man.
I got so worked up about LOD3 and LOD0 being switched INGAME, that I completely forgot to check the others. "ARRRRGH!":hopping:

I don't mean to pester you Raptor, but are you planning to release a "repaired" version... any time soon?

Later!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 14, 2003, 02:48:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
If you don't mind, Raptor, when I get done reworking the hull, you wanna put your turrets on it?


Sure, send me the model file (.3ds, .dxf or .cob, NOT .max), and I'll gun it up.;7;) (as long as PCS dosn't die on me)


Quote
Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
I don't mean to pester you Raptor, but are you planning to release a "repaired" version... any time soon?


Yes, I've already sorted the normal version, I just need to fix up the up-guned model, then I can replace the two .pof files in the zip.

And I need to bug Kazan about PCS limits....
And do project work.....
And do examples from leture handouts....
And do background reading.....
And...................
And.........
.........
.....
....
..
..


EDIT: I've replaced the zip file, this one 'should' contain 'fixed' versions of both Orions.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 14, 2003, 03:59:09 am
KT...you talked to Oddessey yet? What was the screwup?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Eviscerator on November 14, 2003, 04:05:07 pm
Hmmmm.... I cannot even get a look at this thing in Modelview. It gives me ERROR 6010: Too many points on polygon >20
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 14, 2003, 06:20:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Hmmmm.... I cannot even get a look at this thing in Modelview. It gives me ERROR 6010: Too many points on polygon >20


You need the latest version of Modelview.  Can't remember link (sorry)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 14, 2003, 06:28:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
KT...you talked to Oddessey yet? What was the screwup?

He made his own copy, cuz he was lazy. I'm texturing it now.

It being your original copy.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Setekh on November 14, 2003, 06:29:47 pm
Latest version of Modelview (IIRC):

http://www.descent-network.com/cgi-bin/descman.cgi?module=modelview
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Eviscerator on November 14, 2003, 09:04:14 pm
Thanks! I thought I had the latest. I guess not, LOL!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Stryke 9 on November 14, 2003, 10:08:46 pm
The Orion... is awesome. It really doesn't look like a military ship, granted, more like a flying skyscraper with funny bits sticking out, but it still manages to look ****in' gigantic and fairly potent. The Fenris/Leviathan beat it hands down when it comes to looking like a proper military vessel, yes, but they also look kinda like submarines in space- small, cramped, and kinda ineffectual.

From a practical standpoint, yeah, it looks almost totally unarmored, but it never looks nearly as big without all those windows and ****. And size is really the thing they were going for- when you're dealing with four-foot-wide globs of plasma and antimatter bombs, armor isn't going to do you much good, but having a crew of fifty quadrillion or so and weapons/fighter complement to match might.


And since when, exactly, did the Terran fleet have to look all the same? Vasudans sorta do, but that's because that's about the extent of the Vasudan personality- they're the ones in the scaly sorta ships that have marginally better powerplants. Third wheel. Shivans, on the other hand, have ****loads of different designs- they're kinda red, so you can recognize that they're Shivan, but really- what do an Asmodeus, a Manticore, and a Ravanna (which is, incidentially, the one other destroyer they managed to make look pretty impressive) have in common? Or, if you want a real life parallel, what's so similar about a B-2, an Eagle, and an aircraft carrier? I mean, they're all from the same army, they must look exactly the same, have identical paint jobs and so on, all that ****, right?

Come to think of it, aircraft carriers have pretty piss-poor armor, too.


Anyway. Like the new turrets, but some of 'em need to be a bit lighter. One or two really huge turrets is fine, having them all be half the size of a cruiser is a bit excessive.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 15, 2003, 02:21:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
KT...you talked to Oddessey yet? What was the screwup?


What Raa said.

Don't ask. Just know that Raa is working on the real one now...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 15, 2003, 03:54:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Anyway. Like the new turrets, but some of 'em need to be a bit lighter. One or two really huge turrets is fine, having them all be half the size of a cruiser is a bit excessive.


:wtf: the new turret models are almost the same size as the originals, just much better looking (IMHO)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 15, 2003, 01:11:44 pm
On a related topic....;)

(http://www.angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/regunedhades.jpg)

No new turret models this time, but it HAS got twice as many turrets as the original.

I am tempted to re-make the main model as well as new turrets.
As someone said...


Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
...This thing is beastly all the way across the board.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: diamondgeezer on November 15, 2003, 01:14:27 pm
:eek:

I hate that this makes me sound like a 10 year old american child but that pic is AWESOME
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Killfrenzy on November 15, 2003, 01:18:23 pm
I still think that the Hades is a very lazy design.......but that's just me!:D I never liked Terran ships anyhow!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on November 15, 2003, 01:29:50 pm
Raptor I have noticed on the Orion models that turret01a and turret02a have been switched around.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 15, 2003, 01:50:38 pm
I'm not sure the Hades can be redeemed. It make the Orion look like a work of art.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Eviscerator on November 15, 2003, 03:37:59 pm
The Hades truely needs work, and more turrets, many more.

However, I would be more interested in seeing a finished Saturn. :D
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 15, 2003, 04:39:05 pm
diamondgeezer: why, thankyou;)

Jonathan_S47: I know, it's how I work.  I really HATE it when the ships turrets are configured in no logical way (ie Iceni).

The switching of turrets is only (possibly) a problem if you continue to use the original turret loadout.

Mikhael: yes, It is a bit strung out. It's got some good bits though.

Eviscerator: I know, I know, I need to finsh the Saturn.  Got half the maps UVed, but still a lot more to do! (I'll work as long as I can after posting this!)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Stryke 9 on November 15, 2003, 05:06:22 pm
Yay! The Hades! It's like the flamboyantly gay one in the sitcom lineup of Freespace capships!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 15, 2003, 05:29:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h

He made his own copy, cuz he was lazy. I'm texturing it now.

It being your original copy.


I talked to him. He was SO lazy infact, that he didin't even want to unzoom the ships in TS, but just assumed that it looks like mirrired Orion, and made his own model!:lol:

Anyway, glad that someone is on the right track - Make it look good Rha'Thor...I can't wait to post pics of it and watch the jaws drop!! ;7

EDIT: Reminder:
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/OrionMK3.JPG)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/OrionMK4.JPG)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 15, 2003, 05:31:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

Make it look good Rha'Thor


I hope you're joking...:doubt:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 15, 2003, 05:33:10 pm
* plays with a toothed knife *
* looks at Rha'Thor *
[cold voice] Make it look good[/cold voice]
* continues to ply with a toothed knife *
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 15, 2003, 05:34:51 pm
...:wtf:

Ok, Assman. Will do. :ha:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on November 16, 2003, 12:04:02 am
It wasn’t a big problem. I am using an Orion to test out some costume beam cannons that I made. I just went into fred and fixed it there so it works right again.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Nico on November 16, 2003, 05:33:06 am
No offense, but I really hate all those mirrored orions...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Solatar on November 16, 2003, 08:23:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
No offense, but I really hate all those mirrored orions...


I liked the original as well.:) But to each his own I guess.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Setekh on November 16, 2003, 08:44:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I'm not sure the Hades can be redeemed. It make the Orion look like a work of art.


Well, the Hades was never my favourite ship, but it isn't that bad, is it?

Wait, don't answer that.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Fineus on November 16, 2003, 10:04:31 am
Its entire structure just seems... well... wrong. For instance the engine drives at the end of four "prongs"... why? They don't have it that way on the Orion, so it's not necessary...

Then there's the other various bits and pieces that jut out for no good reason.

Although the front head does seem to pave the way for Deimos style "heads" on Terran ships...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 16, 2003, 11:18:33 am
Because it's variety. Otherwise every ship would look the same, just different scale.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 16, 2003, 01:14:41 pm
*whistles*
*sharpens his knives*
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 16, 2003, 01:23:03 pm
I have to agree with Thu-Kalfireth on this one...

The Hades not only had those funky engine pods (it also had two engines on the back of the hull proper) but its general structure was just, well, wrong.  It's turrets are planes flush with the hull in a lot of places (only thing in FS to do this), and it has that rediculous bridge section sticking what, a full kilometer above the deck?  If there exists a more useless extrusion on any canon ship I certainly haven't found it.  Unless of course it's those two fins that stick off the bottom.  As for the model, the mapping is shoddy, it's extremely simple in a lot of places, and it looks like its paths were drawn by a 4 year old.

The idea of the Hades is relatively cool, and certain things could have been pulled off.  But the model itself is just junk.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 16, 2003, 06:35:34 pm
*twidels thumbs*:nervous:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 16, 2003, 09:25:35 pm
I'll answer anyway. ;)

There's a few things in the game that make me question :V:'s art director's sanity. The Orion is on the good end of the "Dear God: that's bad!" scale and the Hades sits firmly in the middle. A cookie if you can guess what sits at the far, ugly, utterly horrible end of that scale, Steak. ;) I'll be very amused if you do.

On the other hand, as I've mentioned to Narol, I actually dislike most :V: designs. They don't match up with my ship building philosophy. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though. In the end they all blow up just fine and that's really what I care about most.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 17, 2003, 05:04:47 am
Myrmydon?

Boangsegsies?

Triton?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 17, 2003, 10:39:37 am
GTD Hecate. Ugliest destroyer EVER.

And I like the Hades.:p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 18, 2003, 04:36:37 am
:wtf:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Solatar on November 18, 2003, 05:35:59 am
The Orion PWNZ the Hecate.:nervous:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Turnsky on November 18, 2003, 05:55:50 am
hmm.. i'd actually prefer a more 'refined' orion, (i.e Larger, smoother, basically more refined..) keep it faithful to the orginal.. :nod:
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: mikhael on November 18, 2003, 09:55:15 am
That's what I'm trying to do, Turnsky.

I'm really disappointed that no one guessed the worst ever :V: model. Its the Mjolnir. That's why I did the thing in the first place.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Flaser on November 18, 2003, 01:38:33 pm
....'casue some of us alrady knew.

BTW Awsome job mikhael !

Back to topic: I like the original design. We should be faithful to its basic concepts - assymetric design, assymetric weaponry along with sideways/"downwards" superstructure.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 18, 2003, 01:44:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
:wtf:


:wtf: do you mean by :wtf:?

The Hecate sucks. Plain and simple.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: neo_hermes on November 18, 2003, 02:17:14 pm
actually i like the Hades and the Orion. i bet if someone remade the Hades everyone would be Happy. the Orion just needs more firepower...yeah firepower.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 18, 2003, 02:48:58 pm
The Orion has enough anti-cap firepower, it just needs better point defense.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: SadisticSid on November 18, 2003, 03:37:57 pm
The Hades sucks.
The Hecate looks so much better than the Orion from most angles.
But the Orion is a more realistic, functional design, albeit utterly useless when anything small gets near it.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Liberator on November 18, 2003, 04:52:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by neo_hermes
actually i like the Hades and the Orion. i bet if someone remade the Hades everyone would be Happy. the Orion just needs more firepower...yeah firepower.


That's funny considering how I read somewhere in game or quoting game that the Orion is more heavily armed than a Hecate.  It's only failing is the complete lack of and effective point defense grid.  Also somewhere, United Space has an Orion Mk2 that they're calling the GTVDn Bastion.  They just never released it.

*edit*
The only known screenshot of the Bastion.
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/us/nb.shtml
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 19, 2003, 11:31:57 am
Rha'Thor? Any Progress?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 19, 2003, 05:22:12 pm
Yeah, like purposefully mispelling his name repeatedly will entice him to progress further...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 19, 2003, 05:36:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator

 Also somewhere, United Space has an Orion Mk2 that they're calling the GTVDn Bastion.  They just never released it.

*edit*
The only known screenshot of the Bastion.
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/us/nb.shtml


Oh it's pretty close to being done. We're still waiting for Psycho to resolve some personal issues, then I'll have to PATH and the like it...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 19, 2003, 05:37:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Rha'Thor? Any Progress?



Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Yeah, like purposefully mispelling his name repeatedly will entice him to progress further...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 19, 2003, 05:47:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h


Oh it's pretty close to being done. We're still waiting for Psycho to resolve some personal issues, then I'll have to PATH and the like it...


*Cough* Aurora auto-path *cough*

Not that manual pathing is a bad thing, but if you've got the tools, use them :nod:

On a side note, I prefer manually drawn paths, they are more reliable and are actually thought out.  But turret paths are so simple that there really isn't a good reason to do them any other way.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Ulala on November 19, 2003, 06:02:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator


*edit*
The only known screenshot of the Bastion.
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/us/nb.shtml


*bawls* It's just so.. beautiful... *sniff*
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 19, 2003, 06:38:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm


*Cough* Aurora auto-path *cough*

Not that manual pathing is a bad thing, but if you've got the tools, use them :nod:

On a side note, I prefer manually drawn paths, they are more reliable and are actually thought out.  But turret paths are so simple that there really isn't a good reason to do them any other way.


I just said PATH cuz it's the only thing I could think of...  Even if I don't have to do anything to it, I'll still have a copy.  I used to have a semi-functional one, but I lost it, and Psycho's too busy.

Besides, Aurora is hella-buggy for me.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: neo_hermes on November 19, 2003, 07:32:50 pm
the GTDn Bastion is cool looking.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 19, 2003, 07:38:05 pm
Funny, no sooner do I say that, than does Psycho say he's ready to begin working on it again... Lucky us...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Deathstorm V2 on November 20, 2003, 02:17:02 am
Personally, I think the Hecate had a lot to offer, but it was wasted - especially those two turrets on the interior of the engine pods.

Now the Orion was well executed, even if the textures on the engines are a bit suspect.  I think the Bastion does it justice, the picture in the old HLP model contest was awe-inspiring.  (Assuming it's the same ship)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 20, 2003, 03:45:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
Yeah, like purposefully mispelling his name repeatedly will entice him to progress further...


Now THAT was a big typo...didn't even notice...
Sorry Raa Tor'h...

You don't have to path it, only texture it...
I'll add turets, LOD's and I'll convert it...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 20, 2003, 05:47:28 pm
I wasn't intending to turret, nor path it... But I've been pre-occupied with school, work, and a certain vessel Ryx made that's turrets won't fire in game...

I'll finish texturing it soon.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 02:08:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Don't get me wrong - the texturing job on the Orion is a good one. However I think it would look far better if it was re-done using better textures - the Fenris skin for example. The Vasudans and Shivans have a pretty good theme going, why do the terran have green, blue and grey ships? (and indeed brown... all sorts). They just seem kinda unthemed.



I'm reskinning all of the GTVA caps (except the Fenris, Zephyrus, Charybdis, and Colossus) with a uniform texture scheme. I had to use different models for the Aeolus and Deimos though (the Phobos Advanced and Alcyone models, respectively).
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 24, 2003, 02:35:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I had to use different models for the Aeolus and Deimos though (the Phobos Advanced and Alcyone models, respectively).


Why did you go and kill the Deimos?  She's the mainstay of the Terran fleet as far as cool-looking ships go.  And the mesh you replaced it with, quite honestly, looks about 1/4 as good as the Deimos did to begin with.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 02:41:36 pm
The Deimos does not lend itself well to the scheme I'm using.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 06:30:56 pm
Your Orion will be a weakling against enemy ships, now that I've dowloaded it and peeked at the tables. Swarm turrets almost always miss. I'm editing the entry to bring back the original huge turrets, BGreens, and AAAfs. Besides, the Orion looks wimpy with itty-bitty midget beams.:p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Shrike on November 24, 2003, 06:31:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I'm reskinning all of the GTVA caps (except the Fenris, Zephyrus, Charybdis, and Colossus) with a uniform texture scheme. I had to use different models for the Aeolus and Deimos though (the Phobos Advanced and Alcyone models, respectively).
Erf?  My Alcyone?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 06:44:32 pm
Yes, yours.:p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Shrike on November 24, 2003, 07:00:34 pm
*scratches head*

Which version?  Do the turrets to the fore and aft have barrels?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 24, 2003, 07:04:49 pm
Probably the version that was in Inferno.  It's the most easily available.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Shrike on November 24, 2003, 07:07:39 pm
Ahh.  That's the older version, I believe.  I modified it slightly.

Still an old model now..... I could do better.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Knight Templar on November 24, 2003, 07:23:32 pm
well, go ahead and show it off. :p
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 07:25:11 pm
It's the Inferno version. I chose the Alcyone because it looks like the Aeolus but is better overall and will go with my texture style better.

Just to give you an idea on the style:
(http://starforce.snohost.com/galatea.png)
General beauty shot.

(http://starforce.snohost.com/galatea2.png)
A more detailed view.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: StratComm on November 24, 2003, 07:29:59 pm
And how exactly do the deimos textures not go on a deimos :confused:

I don't know, it looks half done... you've changed the hull plating but you've left the ugly yellow turrets.  The lights go ok, although I can't tell which way the decks run.  You've also got some spots out of scale texture wise, and certain pieces I can't tell what's going on.  I'm still a fan of the big blue monster myself though.  Call me a purist.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 24, 2003, 08:14:25 pm
The Deimos has a lot of textures I don't want to use. The only Deimos texture I use is tcov1a. Many of the darker textures on the Deimos can't really be replaced.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 25, 2003, 04:11:02 am
Well....any progress?

EDIT: Nice textures Willie!
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 25, 2003, 06:17:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Your Orion will be a weakling against enemy ships, now that I've dowloaded it and peeked at the tables. Swarm turrets almost always miss. I'm editing the entry to bring back the original huge turrets, BGreens, and AAAfs. Besides, the Orion looks wimpy with itty-bitty midget beams.:p


Really? Have you tried them?:wtf:

The 'Swarm' turrets are meant for use against big ships, and they hit quite a lot.  Of couse their not get great against high speed, agile targets ie fighters (although they can be....;7), but show me a warship (cruiser size up) that can pull the moves needed to evade a whole spread.

As for the beams, remember, the Orion was retrofitted with them.  I doubt that they could get the largest beam they had (which may not have been completed at that point) into the old hull.  Not with out problems (like the Typhon)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Shrike on November 25, 2003, 09:26:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor
As for the beams, remember, the Orion was retrofitted with them.  I doubt that they could get the largest beam they had (which may not have been completed at that point) into the old hull.  Not with out problems (like the Typhon)
The canon orion was armed with BGreens, which are the most powerful Terran beam short of those arming the Colossus.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 25, 2003, 01:51:36 pm
Well, the main point of this mod was the new turret models.

I downgraded the beams because

1) with the huge 'Swarm' turrets, she (the Orion) was eating any other destroyer, including Shivan's....

2) I was always a bit miffed that such a massive beam was emerging from such a small gunport (it was like a pistol firing 120mm shells!)
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Woolie Wool on November 25, 2003, 02:13:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


Really? Have you tried them?:wtf:

The 'Swarm' turrets are meant for use against big ships, and they hit quite a lot.  Of couse their not get great against high speed, agile targets ie fighters (although they can be....;7), but show me a warship (cruiser size up) that can pull the moves needed to evade a whole spread.

As for the beams, remember, the Orion was retrofitted with them.  I doubt that they could get the largest beam they had (which may not have been completed at that point) into the old hull.  Not with out problems (like the Typhon)


I pit a corvette armed with five-shot swarm turrets against a Demon. The first volleys hit but the ship missed every other time because it doesn't actually aim at its targets when it's set to be a swarm-firing turret. I subsequently scrapped the weapon.
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Raptor on November 25, 2003, 05:27:54 pm
Hmm, I guess it kinda depends on how a turret is set up.  I've only had problems with the Aeolus's dorsal/ventral turrets.

Part of the reason I'm thinking of remaking the model.....
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: TrashMan on November 27, 2003, 04:56:03 am
Raa Tor'h ?
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Taristin on November 27, 2003, 08:35:46 am
It's coming along...  I'm not the fastest worker there is, y'know. And you have alot of hard-to-reach places on that ship...
Title: Upgraded Orion Done!
Post by: Jonathan_S47 on November 30, 2003, 08:56:47 pm
I have noticed that swarm turrets do not work on the bottom Aeolus turrets and any single part turrets (like those on the Leviathan). They just fire strait out into oblivion. However any multi-part turrets that have been set up right should be abel use them just fine.