Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stealth on November 23, 2003, 06:40:05 pm
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I need a video card for my new computer i'm building. it's got to be a Radeon, because I like Radeon, but which one? I'd like to not get the newest one(s) because i don't want to pay a fortune for it, there's a lot of good discontinued cards, but which do you recommend? i was thinking of the following:
(http://www.rhinomart.com/ebay_steve/ati_radeon_7500_1a.jpg)
(http://i14.ebayimg.com/02/i/00/e8/4c/48_1.JPG)
(http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/00/ea/3d/af_1.JPG)
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/00/f1/cc/1f_1.JPG)
i just need one that will run games like warcraft 3, freespace 2, etc. good... features are good :nod:
Also, should i go the extra distance and get "TV" features? or should i just get the Hauppauge tv card later? regardless, something that would allow me to hook it up to my TV would be good... i was thinking (because of this) one of the older "All in Wonder"s, right?
I was looking at the one Radeon a few years ago, it had the box with that animal with three dogs heads on it (or was it two, you know what i mean) and i can't remember which it was but it seemed pretty good at the time... anyone remember which one that was?
Anyhow, any suggestions i'm open to :)
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Search for a 9500 w/ 128MB of RAM. Try to flash it to 9500 Pro. If it doesn't work, flash it back to 9500. If it does, rejoice in saving over 100 dollars.
(As a note: 9500 is far superior to 9600)
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dont get a radeon thats under the 9000(even thats getting underpowerd). Its best to get a 128 DDR version nowadays. You can find a mid level card cheap now; I saw a 9200 for like $50 at bust buy today. anyway wats ur price range here?
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OK remember i don't play many FPS games, so i don't need a card that can handle extreme framerate, etc. like i said, Homeworld, FS2, WC3, and occasionally Counterstrike or HL2.
price range, well, i want to get what ever is best value for money... if i end up paying $100.00 (i'm buying it online) for a video card, it's cool. if i end up paying $2.00, it's cool too... but i don't want to spend $265 on one... that's out of the question, which is why i said i don't want a really new one (which is therefore really expensive)... i mean my computer's only going to be running on a XP2800+ with 512MB DDR for now
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Just for the record, I've got a GeForceFX 5600 with 256MB onboard memory, and it's a real beast! :D
I've never used a Radeon card so I could only advise looking carefully at what you want, what you may need in the future, what your price range is, and what the card is capable of. :)
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That's actually a pretty good setup (the 2800+ and the 512MB DDR).
A Ti4200/Radeon 9500 are what you should aim for.
And Drew: A 9200 is not a mid-level card. The current mid-level cards are the Radeon 9600/GeForce FX 5600, not the 9200/FX 5200. The 9200 and FX 5200 are bargain cards.
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yeah well i mean it's going to be the computer that i'm going to use till the end of college, for everything, gaming, experimenting, programming, etc. dual boot (XP Pro and 98 SE). i've got a 250 GB Western Digital "Special Edition" hard drive (i.e. 8 MB Buffer). and i'm going to be running it with a 120 GB drive, which i just bought on Ebay a few minutes ago... so i've got storage set out of the way. case i've already bought, it's a best, 6 5.25" bays, and 8 3.5" bays (2 external, 6 internal), like 8 fans, dual 400W power supplies.
52x24x52x cd burner (just bought today on Ebay)
now the next thing on my list is motherboard, processor, and RAM. i already know what board i'm getting, the Asus A7V8X-X, processor i already have (not in my possession, but paid for), same with RAM. only big thing now is video card, but i'll only buy one in like 2 weeks, cause i've got to save up first, and with the end of the month coming i've got insurance, etc. to pay for. like i said though, something that's top of the line i don't want, because if i'm going to have to pay $100 more for a card that's only slightly better than, say, one that's a few weeks/months old, i'd rather go for the older one. i'm not doing professional video editing or HARDCORE gaming... ;) thanks for the help so far Grey Wolf and others, keep it coming :)
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Get an nForce2 motherboard, it's the best chipset the 32 bit Athlon platform has ever seen. Even if you don't use the onboard LAN and sound (and there's no reason why you shouldn't, it's better than a lot of what's out there, both on and off board) it still generally outperforms any of the **** Via put out. The board I have, the EPoX 8RDA+, remains one of the best value for money boards I've seen but if you're determined to spend your money with Asus then you should get the A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0. It's more expensive and doesn't offer much above the 8RDA+ but it's the best nForce2 board in the Asus stable.
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9800 All-In-Wonder Pro.
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Out of his price range.
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Hey, I'm gonna upgrade soon too. :) Should I completely boycott nVidia, or what?
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ATI is beating Nvidea so Radeon is better choice
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Originally posted by Setekh
Hey, I'm gonna upgrade soon too. :) Should I completely boycott nVidia, or what?
Only if you intend on buying a Pentium 4 ;)
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That's the other thing. ;) I've really been fond of AMD and I'd like certainly love to get an Athlon, but I haven't been keeping up on how the two chip giants are stacking up against each other in terms of performance in various areas. :blah:
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I seem to remember there being display issues with either direct3d or OGL (or both) when it comes to TV Outs.
Is that right ?
or was it just with earlier cards ?
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Originally posted by Setekh
That's the other thing. ;) I've really been fond of AMD and I'd like certainly love to get an Athlon, but I haven't been keeping up on how the two chip giants are stacking up against each other in terms of performance in various areas. :blah:
Well as it is, they are still competiting extremely well, between Athlon's 64 bit FX processor, and Pentium's P4 Extreme Edition. Technically the P4 should outperform the Athlon in games(the P4 has higher benchmarks in other things, but not by much mind you), but since most games out there prefer the Athlon architecture, the Athlon FX actually runs games like Quake 3 and UT2003 better.
These are just the highest end processors out to date btw.
I actually favor Athlon better, their processors are always cheaper than the Pentium equivelents, and since games like their architecture better I tend to go with them.
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The whole value for money thing has been turned upside down with the release of the 'C' class 800Mhz FSB P4s though. Since they start at 3.2Ghz and are just underclocked to provide the lower speeds they'll all overclock to at least 3.0Ghz without breaking a sweat (just wind the FSB up to at least 250Mhz and set the memory divider to 5:4 and your set, no voltage adjustments, no extra cooling, nothing) making the 2.4 and 2.6Ghz parts the best value for money CPUs since the Celeron 300A.
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Originally posted by DragonClaw
Well as it is, they are still competiting extremely well, between Athlon's 64 bit FX processor, and Pentium's P4 Extreme Edition. B]
yeah but as far as I know there still hasn't been an OS released that utilizes the AMD 64 processors, so you'll just end up buying a $700.00 processor for nothing :-/ .
The same thing happened with the release of the Pentium IV months before the release of WindowsXP... remember? :D
anyhow, any more ideas?
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Originally posted by Admiral LSD
Get an nForce2 motherboard, it's the best chipset the 32 bit Athlon platform has ever seen. Even if you don't use the onboard LAN and sound (and there's no reason why you shouldn't, it's better than a lot of what's out there, both on and off board) it still generally outperforms any of the **** Via put out. The board I have, the EPoX 8RDA+, remains one of the best value for money boards I've seen but if you're determined to spend your money with Asus then you should get the A7N8X Deluxe Rev. 2.0. It's more expensive and doesn't offer much above the 8RDA+ but it's the best nForce2 board in the Asus stable.
Yeah i was planning on using the onboard LAN and sound temporarily (until i get money to get a better setup anyway :D) so what exact nForce 2 board do you recommend? i've checked out the A7n8x, still looking at it though
what do you think of this board? : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3442838070&category=42013
haven't heard much about its reputation, but its features seem good enough.
if there's other boards that have as good or better reputation as the A7V8X-X then i'm willing to look at them, but i don't want to spend too much, because, well, you know money's the main thing :)
EDIT: I think i'm going to buy the A7N8X... i don't really see a big difference between it and the A7V8X-X though, but it looks good...
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OK i'm getting one of these two cards:
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/02/i/00/f1/cc/1f_1.JPG)
(http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/30057868/Images/9200box1.JPG)
i'm leaning towards the second one.
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Whatever you buy, you'll want a board that utilises the SPP North Bridge (so no integrated graphics) and the MCP-T South Bridge (so you get the good onboard audio). Many of the cheaper nForce2 boards (such as the vanilla A7N8X, the A7N8X Deluxe has the MCP-T) forego the MCP-T and use a regular MCP instead so they only have basic AC'97 audio which you don't want (it's primarily software based, whereas the APU in the MCP-T is hardware so doesn't rape your CPU). The EPoX 8RDA+ (which is the board I have and recommend to anyone who asks) is one of the few boards that has an MCP-T and can be had for between USD$80-100 (although it should be closer to the 80 mark by now, I last saw it at USD$92 but that was a fair while ago). That MSI board has the SPP/MCP-T combination so looks like it would be a good buy as well.
edit: Also, with regard to OS support for Athlon 64, there's a 64 bit version of Windows XP in the works that support A64 not to mention several distributions of Linux already compile on it.
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[color=cc9900]I'd recommend a 9100 instead of that 9200. The 9100 is basically a rebranded 8500 card (so if you see one of them for sale too, get either), no changes whatsoever. Which is good, because both the 9000 and 9200 have clipped wings in terms of pipelines.
Personally, I'm getting a 9600 XT to replace my old Voodoo 3 card. £120 or so (~$180), so just about within my 'reasonable price range', and in most cases it's faster than a 9500 Pro. And it's got as much memory as I've got installed on my motherboard (256mb DDR), which is frickin' scary.[/color]
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Admiral LSD: So the A7N8X Deluxe (which is what i was planning on getting) you recommend? is the "deluxe" the A7N8X-X as opposed to just the regular A7N8X?
Odyssey: I can get the 9200 for like $50.00 brand new and sealed online, but do you think i should get the 9100 instead?
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Originally posted by Stealth
yeah but as far as I know there still hasn't been an OS released that utilizes the AMD 64 processors, so you'll just end up buying a $700.00 processor for nothing :-/ .
The same thing happened with the release of the Pentium IV months before the release of WindowsXP... remember? :D
anyhow, any more ideas?
Linux, f00 :p
Anyway, the A64 FX processors beat the P4C processors in standard XP anyway. Not to mention that the standard A64s only retail for $400 and perform as well at the P4C, and run far cooler.
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Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
Linux, f00 :p
yeah i forgot about Linux :D
but how many people use Linux? not many... so therefore getting a 64Bit Athlon is useless to most people
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Also Solaris, Unix....
And Windows should be out soon. They're on Beta, I think.
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Originally posted by Stealth
Admiral LSD: So the A7N8X Deluxe (which is what i was planning on getting) you recommend? is the "deluxe" the A7N8X-X as opposed to just the regular A7N8X?
The A7N8X (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x/overview.htm), A7N8X-X (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-x/overview.htm) and A7N8X Deluxe (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-d/overview.htm) are all different boards. Of those 3, the A7N8X Deluxe is probably the best (it has the SPP/MCP-T combination) but I'd only recommend it if you're determined to spend your money with Asus as it's fairly expensive and doesn't really offer a lot (just a second onboard NIC and SATA, neither of which is all that useful) to justify the price. This is the board I have, the EPoX 8RDA+:
http://web.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8RDAplus&lang=1
With the exception of SATA and the second onboard NIC, it has the same basic feature set (dual channel DDR support, AGP8X, nVidia LAN, ATA133, USB2, Firewire and SoundStorm audio) as the A7N8X Deluxe but can be had for a lot less.
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I just got a new computer that has a nVidia FX 5200... is that any good? Im also running 512Mb DDR Dual Channel and a 2.8 Ghz Processor.
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Uhhh... Not really. You'll beat GF2s and GF4 MXs, but that's about it.
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Originally posted by Admiral LSD
The A7N8X (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x/overview.htm), A7N8X-X (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-x/overview.htm) and A7N8X Deluxe (http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socketa/a7n8x-d/overview.htm) are all different boards. Of those 3, the A7N8X Deluxe is probably the best (it has the SPP/MCP-T combination) but I'd only recommend it if you're determined to spend your money with Asus as it's fairly expensive and doesn't really offer a lot (just a second onboard NIC and SATA, neither of which is all that useful) to justify the price. This is the board I have, the EPoX 8RDA+:
http://web.epox.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-8RDAplus&lang=1
With the exception of SATA and the second onboard NIC, it has the same basic feature set (dual channel DDR support, AGP8X, nVidia LAN, ATA133, USB2, Firewire and SoundStorm audio) as the A7N8X Deluxe but can be had for a lot less.
yeah i guess i should've looked at the Asus website, right? :p
Like i said, things have changed so much since the last time i built a computer back about 4 years ago. the Asus A7M266 was the fastest there was, i can still see its red box on all the shelves at CompUSA and such :D That motherboard you showed me, the Epox 8RDA+... i've never heard much about "Epox" boards, but it has 6 PCI slots, which is good (can't stand boards with 4), so i might just get that. You said the A7N8X Deluxe motherboard was expensive but had no features... how could that be? How does it compare to the A7V8X-X motherboard? When it comes to the fine tuning of these boards i really can't tell the difference, they all support (more or less) the same features, but i dunno. really, if you make a recommendation, i'll go for it... your call...
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All nForce2 boards have a fairly standard feature set, it varies a bit depending on which combination of North and South Bridge are used but all of them share a common feature set of AGP8X, ATA133, USB2 and at least the nVidia onboard LAN MAC. What I meant about the Asus board was that it doesn't offer a lot above the standard features of the nForce2 chipset to justify the price difference between it and something like the 8RDA+ which has almost everything nForce2 has to offer but sells for less than USD$90.
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features don't matter that much to me. i don't want to get a board with all the features motherboards have to offer, and then two months later it burns out. so you'd recommend the Epox 8RDA then... I think i'm going to get it, sounds like a really good motherboard :). I can run it with my 2800+, and 512 MB RAM on it, and i'll save quite a bit :D. great :D
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An Athlon 64 3200+ is mostly faster than a P4 3.2C, but then the price cuts have made things different. I'd say choose whichever one is cheaper, but the differenece isn't huge - if you like AMD emotionally, go for the 3200+.
If you are considering HL2 at all, Stealth, that 7500AIW will not the do the trick. Try a 9200, 9100 or 5200 instead, or if you can find it, a 9500/9600 or 5600 non-pro/ultra instead.
If you're going with nforce2, dual channel memory memorys the intergrated graphics a lot - as much as 40% IIRC.
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Originally posted by Stealth
Odyssey: I can get the 9200 for like $50.00 brand new and sealed online, but do you think i should get the 9100 instead?
[color=cc9900]Just stay away from the 9200 like the plague, basically. The 9000 Pro and the 9100/8500 are better, with the 9100/8500 being the best of the bunch. So, as long as the price is okay, get one of those two instead.
According to pricegrabber, the 9000 pro is going for $70, and the 9100 goes for $57-65 but is harder to find. So, if you can obtain the 9100, it's vastly the better buy.[/color]
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Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]Just stay away from the 9200 like the plague, basically. [/color]
well f*** Odyssey, i just bought one yesterday :( :-/ :shaking:
it's cool, i'll use it for a few weeks/months, and it might just work for the basic stuff i do... if it doesn't, i'll try to sell it (to some gullible friends) and get a new one.
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[color=cc9900]Here's a good summary:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/fic_r92p/
Check out the benchmarks. It's not the end of the world, it just isn't that good. Beats the FX5200 in most tests at 1024x768.[/color]
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Originally posted by Stealth
yeah but as far as I know there still hasn't been an OS released that utilizes the AMD 64 processors, so you'll just end up buying a $700.00 processor for nothing :-/ .
lol, there is one out :nod: Windows XP 64-Bit Edition (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/default.asp)
and might I add its been there for a while :p
Microsoft
Last Updated: August 18, 2003
oh and the Athlon 64 processor has a 1600MHz FSB comparision :nod:
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Originally posted by Ypoknons
If you're going with nforce2, dual channel memory memorys the intergrated graphics a lot - as much as 40% IIRC.
If you get a board without the integrated graphics (which none of the boards discussed in this thread do) though then it's not really as important. DCDDR is still a neat thing to have though so if you can wing it it would pay to buy another 512Mb stick and run the pair in DC.