Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stealth on December 02, 2003, 05:44:29 pm
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I'm going to be setting up a *proper* home network soon, but i need to have some suggestions first. first, i was planning on just running CAT-5 drops to every room in the house (for future expansion :D :p) then have the 'router' / hub in my room, with my computer, so i'd "control" everyone elses, and all everyone else has to do is plug their NIC into the drop in whatever room.
... BUT i've been hearing a lot of good things about wireless home networks nowadays. anyone got any experience with wireless home networks? how are they in terms of reliability?
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they aren't as fast, thats for sure. i haven't worked with them however. just lay some CAT-5E and run it at 1Gbps. perhaps a supply of 12 ft patch cables can come in handy if you decide to lay some cable.
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802.11B or 802.11G is the way to go. Phreak, wireless is just as fast as wired over short range, unless you're talking gig-E. Gig-E is out of the home-LAN budget though.
I've got my house set up with a well secured wireless AP, with the DHCP serving from FreeBSD. I hand out specific IP addresses to specific MACs, and I disallow all traffic from any other IP/MAC from going through the network. Only two machines are wired directly into the network switch: the fileserver and my wife's machine and that's because the network switch sits on top of them.
Given how easy it is to go the wireless route, and how very little more it costs, I wouldn't bother going wired.
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how much does it cost though? don't wireless NICs and routers costa lot more?
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It's about the same these days. Especially since you don't have to run cable.
Wireless NICs
http://www.pricewatch.com/1/211/3552-1.htm
Wireless Routers
http://www.pricewatch.com/1/7/3533-1.htm
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Pfff. What's the fun in doing it if you're picking and choosing all your parts?
Go 'round a computer fair, buy networking **** (routers, cables, hubs etc) randomly, take it home and try to fix it all up.
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He said he's doing a "proper" home network which means that he doesn't want a bunch of extra junk laying around the house.(I don't blame him!)
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Sure, let's be vague.
If it works, it's 'proper'. Doesn't matter how many different systems, makes, brands, cable-types and digital-analogue convertors ( :lol: ) you're using. If it can network your computers, it's good. And if you do it the hap-hazard way it's more fun and less costly.
But if he want's to spend a few grand on some transmitter doohickeys so he can have a completely pointless wireless network operating between 3 desktop PC's, I ain't gonna stop him.
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Wireless networks do suffer if you have alot of signal noise from a nearby source and in addition, if you have a 2.4ghz phone around your network will tend to be disrupted (although 802.11g seems to be more resiliant).
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I just got one to go with my new broadband line. It's good, apart from one thing - signal disruption. Because my house is old, it's got very thick solid walls, and every time someone walks past the computer, it either drastically weakens the signal or blocks it completely, resulting in a few seconds disconnection. It's a pain in the arse. It works fine apart from that, though.
(If anyone has any ideas about how to fix this, I'm all ears)
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Originally posted by an0n
But if he want's to spend a few grand on some transmitter doohickeys so he can have a completely pointless wireless network operating between 3 desktop PC's, I ain't gonna stop him.
My wireless setup in my house cost less than $300, and half of that was a wireless CF card for my PDA.
Originally posted by IceFire
Wireless networks do suffer if you have alot of signal noise from a nearby source and in addition, if you have a 2.4ghz phone around your network will tend to be disrupted (although 802.11g seems to be more resiliant).
I'm using straight up 802.11b. My wifes work phone (a 2.4gHz wireless model) sits literally on top of the AP. I have no issues.
The only place I have issues is with my laptop. It has an inbuilt Cisco (yay!) wireless card. Under FreeBSD, this I have no issues getting online. Under Windows, though, the wireless card is useless. This is with all up to date drivers. Mind you, I tend to spend 95% of my time in FreeBSD so its not a real issue. :)
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Hrrmm seems lucky that you don't have issues. Most people do...not all but most. May depend on the phone manufacturer and wireless network system as well. Not all are created equal.
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I just placed a router (Vigor 2200E) and a bunch of cables to my comps. WOrks like a rose.
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Feh, wireless is a waste of time. All those little pieces, respond badly to bashing. Hard to solder back together, can't just pull replacement parts out of a broken TV set or something, and all just so you have slightly fewer cables to trip over.
Way I see it, if you couldn't concievably keep it working even after a small thermonuclear war, obviously was built badly from the start. Or you're just unskilled and will serve as food in such an event.
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No matter what anyone says, NO HOUSE needs a wireless network.
Hell, few houses even need a hard-wired network. A shared net connection would do for just about everyone.
But no, there's always one flash bastard who insists that it's easier to fit hundreds of feet of cable through their home than to buy a ****ing ZIP drive.
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Originally posted by an0n
But no, there's always one flash bastard who insists that it's easier to fit hundreds of feet of cable through their home than to buy a ****ing ZIP drive.
funny, i didn't know there was a way to share an internet connection with a ZIP drive.
the reason i want a home network is so that we have more than one computer with an internet connection, without having to have three cable modems, bright a$$. :rolleyes:
and as far as i know, the only way to share an internet connection without buying multiple cable modems, is through some form of network, whether wired, or wireless
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Lay the cables. Wireless works, but it's not especially fast and you will probably run into some dead zones where the signal doesn't penetrate walls well. If it's your home, and you can afford to put in cat-5 drops, put them where you need them (going to every room is overkill and you can always expand later). If you know how to run cabling, then definitely go that way, as it's more reliable.
As for wireless, it works most of the time, but the equipment isn't very reliable. They do break quite easily. We didn't even have that many wireless devices at work last summer, and 1 in 4 that I installed was more trouble than help.
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yeah OK, i guess you're right, i can always drop the cables later as i expand the network... i just figured it'd be easier to run cable since i'd be up in the roof all at once ;) :).
I'll be making the cables myself of course, there's no way i'm going to buy pre-made cables. i'll just get a box of Cat5-e (they're pretty cheap nowadays) and drop them, then just put the connector on. simple and sweet.
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Why do you need to buy cable-modems?
Just get some cheap-ass 10/100 LAN cards and bottleneck them into a switcher or router or some **** then out to a single modem.
Also, sharing a net connection is NOT a network. It's a half-assed measure at best. A network is a setup whereby you can transfer **** between computers and/or where everything is run on a central server and accessed by barebones terminal machines.
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Originally posted by an0n
Just get some cheap-ass 10/100 LAN cards and bottleneck them into a switcher or router or some **** then out to a single modem.
Heh. it's funny, but that's pretty much what i'm planning on doing. Putting NICs in each computer, running cable to a central router, and then sharing the internet, files, etc. from all computers. Sounds like you've just said exactly what i've been planning on doing :yes: congratulations :yes:
Hell, few houses even need a hard-wired network. A shared net connection would do for just about everyone.
Just for the record, if i have to 'wire' a shared net connection, why not just 'wire' a proper network... it's the same distance as i'd have to run cables for a "shared net connection" anyway ;)
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So why call it a network, then? It's not, it's a shared connection. It's like calling a dual-processor P3 a render farm- they're completely different creatures, really nothing in common but the absolute most basic functions.
Hell, forget that, since you obviously don't know- why the hell bother with wireless? You can get a nice modem router and a decent length of cable for something like $50, tops. It's cheap, it's more reliable, it's all you need for a shared connection and has no real disadvantages compared to wireless for that application.
Using fancy technologies in wholly inappropriate ways doesn't impress anyone, dude, it just makes you look like an overpaid fool. Like every assistant manager I've ever seen. Wireless is genuinely useful when you've got multiple PCs that need networking in an area, particularly ones that are moving. You don't have that problem. So, then, why?
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see an0n, my reasons for setting up a network are not just being too lazy to save my files to a ZIP disk (it'd probably be more expensive, just for the record, to buy two zip drives and a zip disk for the computers than it would be to set up a complete network LOL :lol: :p), but i want to be able to play games between the two computers, share an internet connection, share files, share printers, scanners, etc. which can only be done through a network.
Plugging the computers into a switch is considered a network (yes it really is, look up the definition of "network") but i'm going to be plugging them into my Linksys 'router', and although sharing an internet connection is the primary thing i'm going to be using the network for, other things (mentioned above) are making me go the full 9 yards
EDIT:
Using fancy technologies in wholly inappropriate ways doesn't impress anyone, dude, it just makes you look like an overpaid fool. Like every assistant manager I've ever seen.
well i'm not just going to go out and buy "fancy technologies"... that's why i asked the price of a basic wireless network, in terms of NICs, router, whatever else i'd need. i want to keep it as simple and cheap as possible, but at the same time reliable :)
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
So why call it a network, then? It's not, it's a shared connection.
you call "Putting NICs in each computer, running cable to a central router, and then sharing the internet, files, etc. from all computers. " a shared connection? I don't, i consider that a network.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but hooking **** up to a router doesn't let you share files.
This was my main point of contestation in regards to your definitions of what makes a network.
You'd need a central server computer doohickey to share files and ****. Thus, it would constitute a network.
And using a switcher (at least the kind I'm thinking of) is little more than plugging and unplugging wires when different computers want access to a device or service. And that's not, in any way, a network.
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Originally posted by an0n
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hooking **** up to a router doesn't let you share files.
*Corrects an0n*
This was my main point of contestation in regards to your definitions of what makes a network.
see below
You'd need a central server computer doohickey to share files and ****. Thus, it would constitute a network.
No you wouldn't. You can share files, play games, etc. on a passive hub... of course you can do the same (and more) on a switch
And using a switcher (at least the kind I'm thinking of) is little more than plugging and unplugging wires when different computers want access to a device or service. And that's not, in any way, a network.
Multiple computers, plugged into a switch, hub (active, passive, take your pick), router, server, anything, is considered a network. Look it up. There's different types of networks, but they're all some sort of network
Cisco CCNA ceritified kid...: I wasn't asking the definition of a network, i was asking whether people with experience recommended going wired or wireless.
EDIT: Chew on this: For computers to be able to share files, play games with each other, etc. they have to be on the same network. yeah. the same network... therefore even if you're just using a hub, it's considered a network.
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Actually, you don't need a central computer. Had a family network running a while back (load of good it did, only two computers even kinda worked and one was so slow you'd boot it up, go to bed, and sometime the next day it'd be ready to open word. Hopefully before a meal, so you could do more than just sit there and wait or go out for a long walk), no central computer, files shared and everything. When it was up. I'd just missed his part about sharing files.
EDIT: Just couldn't pass this up.
Cisco CCNA ceritified kid.
:lol:
How cute, kids these days.
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you're right Stryke. you can share files, play games, and much more on even an 'unintelligent' (passive) hub, which is the simplest networking device you can find...
EDIT:
How cute, kids these days.
yeah. an0n did say that he's CCNA certified a while back, didn't he? or am i thinking of someone else?
i'm still not certified, but who the hell cares :p
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*will be CCNA in...~1 year*
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yeah i'll be taking the test in a few weeks myself.
what do you think of the new cisco curriculum? what semester are you on?
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Well, I just randomly grabbed it as the 1 tech course in HS I haven't taken yet for this semester (and consequently the next 3...), so I'm on sem 1 right now. It's really funny to watch the tards in the class who just don't get it. I.e. on our beginning of the year survey, this one kid put "compaq presario" as his computer OS.
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oh.
yeah i meant what semester of CISCO are you in, not of school :) :p it's confusing, because cisco has 4 semesters, and we're covering it in 2 school semesters (one year), but the class is a 2 hour block (two periods combined)... so it's all cool
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I am certified and/or qualified for the following jobs/services/abilities:
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For the record, I work for Cisco Systems at the Research Triangle Park campus. :D
Originally posted by StratComm
As for wireless, it works most of the time, but the equipment isn't very reliable. They do break quite easily. We didn't even have that many wireless devices at work last summer, and 1 in 4 that I installed was more trouble than help.
Funny, Cisco and Sun seem to disagree. We use 802.11b pretty much everywhere on our 15 building campus. Its damnably reliable.
Originally posted by an0n
Just get some cheap-ass 10/100 LAN cards and bottleneck them into a switcher or router or some **** then out to a single modem.
Also, sharing a net connection is NOT a network. It's a half-assed measure at best. A network is a setup whereby you can transfer **** between computers and/or where everything is run on a central server and accessed by barebones terminal machines.
Here's a hint from the people that do this for a living: a network is a collection of computer connected together by some media (like, oh, Cat5 or a wireless connection). "Central server with slaves" is one kind of network. "A bunch of machines sharing a fat pipe" is a network. If the latter did not describe a network, I would dare say that Cisco systems does not have a single network anywhere on our campus.
If you can share an internet connection, you can share data between the machines sharing that connection.
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thanks mikhael for backing me up :) :) :D :D
Yeah i've heard a lot of good things about wireless. University of Texas (the largest network in America) (from what i've heard), uses a lot of wireless
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Mikhael, where exactly do you work?
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Cisco Systems, Research Triangle Park campus, Building 6 (Pineview). I work for NSITE LabOps--oh wait. we're STEP-LASER now. Yay reorganization.
Why do you ask?
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Curiosity I would imagine seeing as you said you did it for a living.
*bows before the mighty network/modeling god, mikhael*
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Dude. I'm just a sysadmin. I just work for Cisco (like 200k other geeks). And Venom models way better than me.
If you really want to consider me a god though, sacrifice a new graphics card to me. Just mail it. ;)
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About Wireless vs Wires... I am just about finished adding 2000sq feet to my house, and I installed a wireless AND wire network in the bedrooms and the office. (Well wires to everything, and 1 wireless to see how far it would work.) I found that the wireless had troubles making it from the server room to the office or my room (which are on the complete oppisite side of the house).
But besides that the wireless works fine and I can use my HP PDA with built in wireless when I am in the living room if I feel like being a super geek.
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Cisco! I took a semster of that durring HS! Yech! I am very impressed that people here get interested in that stuff. I know I was bored like crazy!
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Mikheal: because if you're in RTP then you aren't too far away from me. I just find it interesting that there's another forumite from around these parts.
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Cool. Where you at?
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Originally posted by mikhael
sacrifice a new graphics card to me. Just mail it. ;)
*sends and old PCI SiS 6326 card he had lying around*
:p
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Bastard. I was hoping for something like a GeForce FX5900 or something. :D
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Originally posted by mikhael
Cool. Where you at?
Undergrad at Duke University. So I'm in your neighborhood.