Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Arts & Talents => Topic started by: Nico on December 03, 2003, 05:05:37 pm
-
...sue me :p
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/dontmess.jpg)
Trooper by me, assault rifle by me, pistol taken on some website but couldn't remember where to save my life.
Text by me too, heh.
-
He has his own nebula. ;)
-
nah, that's bad chakra :D
-
Ooh, you can make character models now.
[quietly starts laying traps all around thread]
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Ooh, you can make character models now.
He's been able to for a long time :p
Speaking of that. I need a character model. Bleh. :p
-
Yes, but I only just noticed now. Plus, I didn't really give two ****s about character modeling before, as before I merely hated it and didn't have anything to do with it. Now I hate it and need some done. See the difference?
If only people gave a damn about renders and movies and so on that didn't have ****in' people in them. It's like photography all over again.
Anyway. Model's pretty good. Woman's scary, if not all that threateningly so. Pants, belt, and so on are nicely done, pretty realistic. Helmet's one of those hugeass ones that don't serve any discernible function- okay. Uncovered arms would be bad mojo for combat, though. Uncovered anything that you want to keep mobile and not bleeding generally are.
-
Woman? That's a dude :p ( I'll post a clear pic tonight ( don't have the time right now, but I can redirect you to this:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/renders/troopertrailer2.jpg) (http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/renders/troopertrailer2.avi)
( click pic for the video )
If you still think he looks like a chick, I'll eat my hat ( I don't have a hat, but still :p )
The helmet is not so large, it's the camera angle ( seen from underneath ) that gives that feeling. But the thing has all sorts of integrated crap, indluding some kind of virtual helmet screen that can be lowered, so it has to be bigger than normal.
Last time I checked, real soldiers don't even have chest plates, so I guess they are bad for combat :p
-
er... he _does_ look like a girl. i think its because of the waist, its really skinny. possibly the arms as well.
-
"he" looks almost like he has titties...:D
-
HAHAHA. How old are you? he has tities. arf, lol.
Jokes aside, the guy has quite a large breastplate. the waist, then, will of course look thiner than it is, since it is based on the dude's body, not body+armor. As far as I know, the arms thickness is right ( might look a bit thin for the same reason ) compared to the rest of the actual body ( we're not in a comics here, if you except schwartzy, not many people have arms thicker than their neck ).
I might sound pissed of, I probably am, but it's not because of the comments, it's because I cannot post a darn pic of the dude w/o his armor because the fcking Swooh is acting up again :mad:
-
lol venom...go penguinbomb :p
and the main problem with "him" is the face, IMO...the lips are far to small, and the face looks more woman-ish (something with the cheekbones + jaw)
-
Well since you all have a different reason for him looking like a chick...
darn, I s'pose if I post a pic of one of my female meshes, you're gonna tell me she looks like a guy :o
-
wanna find out? :D
-
sure, let's tempt the devil:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/renders/meyasuit2.jpg)
No pic w/o hemet, coz swooh ftp is still as dead as a drowned rat.
-
Looks girly to me..
-
Looks like she'd have a hell of a lot of trouble supporting all that armor, what she looks like. Light frame on a soldier?
Look at the guys you see in the news sometime. They look like sports jocks, most of the older ones (everyone's kinda stringy at 18) like a side of beef. You gotta be pretty strong and tough to be competent in infantry combat.
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Looks like she'd have a hell of a lot of trouble supporting all that armor, what she looks like. Light frame on a soldier?
That's not an armor, that's a flight suit, not armored or anything. It's pretty light and not made to wistand a bullet shot.
Look at the guys you see in the news sometime. They look like sports jocks, most of the older ones (everyone's kinda stringy at 18) like a side of beef. You gotta be pretty strong and tough to be competent in infantry combat. [/B]
Ok, I have friends who are soldiers ( have my best friend, and I know a few of his direct friends, one of them being the father of his sister's son ). They dont look like Rambo or anything, but still they are much tougher than me. And don't serve me crap about US soldiers being better or anything. I have TV too, I've seen US soldiers in Irak, half of them had naked arms ( well it's hot, there ), and they didn't look like they could kill a bull with one punch.
But to wrap this up, that's my style, period. I don't like comics like characters, they loose the weak side of humanity that makes them believable and that makes people being able to identify to them.
-
Originally posted by Nico
And don't serve me crap about US soldiers being better or anything. I have TV too, I've seen US soldiers in Irak, half of them had naked arms ( well it's hot, there ), and they didn't look like they could kill a bull with one punch.
:wtf:
I think he was getting at that you don't see petite 95 lb women, or stringie 135 lb dudes in the infantry so much as you see athletic high school football team, go to the gym 4+ times a week guys. Not supermen.
-
Exactly. Someone who couldn't manage a pullup is sure as hell not going to be in any army that actually does, you know, fighting. And if they were, they wouldn't last very long, if nothing else machine guns weigh a ****ing ton after about the second hour of carrying 'em.
And you know what? Iraq'snot just hot, it's ****ing hot. When they're not in a combat situation or likely to be any time soon, light uniforms really are necessary- heatstroke would be decimating the forces otherwise. But anyone who's going to be fighting is going to need to move around a lot in some pretty rough terrain. You ever notice how when you scrape your elbows even a bit your arm gets stiffened up? Yeah, that's you dead in a firefight, right there. Good, thick fabric like is used in military clothing isn't just there because it makes the soldiers look bigger- preventing relatively minor abrasions and lacerations helps prevent rather more critical things like a 7.62 round to the forehead. And that's kinda important. Spare clothing is a good tradeoff when you're in an excessively hot climate. And given the heaviness of the rest of that suit, it wouldn't help much in such a situation there anyway.
You don't like unbelievably over-buff characters. And that's fine, I'd be cracking steroid jokes right now if you were. But are unbelievably stringy, frail characters any better? Hell, maybe it's just me, but that sounds a good bit sillier.
I think you're making the mistake of assuming "looking funky" is a desirable trait in military gear. It's not, if you're designing it around aesthetics and fashion it's gonna just look wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter what you do. There are very few things more utilitarian than the army, and if you're thinking about something other than what is needed for those clothes/vehicles/whatever, you've already ****ed up. Just having some exteraneous for no clearly stated reason, or making up half-assed excuses after the fact to defend the thing, isn't gonna help- you're not gonna convince anybody, and people will notice.
-
it could habe mechanical servitors or watchamawhosits that help you move the tons of armour. Think ripleys Cargo lifting suit from the aliens serires. NO way she moved those arms on her own.
-
Yes, because that was the bloody point of the bloody exosuit (the fact that in real life she probably was moving the arms around is neither here nor there). It's rather not the point of simple body armor, and would be incredibly wasteful and troublesome (think motor burning out) unless you were basically wearing a tank, at which point you'd have quite a lot of benefit from the power-armor thing and would absolutely not be able to use it at all otherwise.
-
Well that still doesn't acknowledge the part where she looks deathly thin even. But it really doesn't matter that much, does it?
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
I think you're making the mistake of assuming "looking funky" is a desirable trait in military gear. It's not, if you're designing it around aesthetics and fashion it's gonna just look wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter what you do. There are very few things more utilitarian than the army, and if you're thinking about something other than what is needed for those clothes/vehicles/whatever, you've already ****ed up. Just having some exteraneous for no clearly stated reason, or making up half-assed excuses after the fact to defend the thing, isn't gonna help- you're not gonna convince anybody, and people will notice.
OK, ok... But what the hell are you talking about, if I may ask?
-
That your "military" getups are almost entirely functionless. It's like taking the rotors off a helicopter because you think you could fit a rabbit hutch up on there instead. And, hence, look every bit as unthreatening, unconvincing, et al. Basically any effect you would concievably want with these renders you're doing is hobbled by the fact that, heck, what you're showing is skinny twerps wearing big metal plates on their chests. Except, you know, in a nicer fashion, except you insist on being obtuse. Next I shall have to bring out the "fix your model" coloring book. And no, you cannot have "Brick Red", it's mine.
-
"raises shoulders"
Ok, so I have a dude, that you label skinny ( let's agree n that or the schmilblick won't move ), and now his outfit sux. I look at your first post in the thread now... I wonder what made you post that, coz obviously everything is wrong with my mesh.
Ok, so I'm unlucky, with me, chestplates won't work, are unthretening and unconvincing ( who said it was metal? oh well ) ( well I'm not any famous gamer producer, granted ), the fact is doesn't have friggin sleeves to stop bullet makes him good as dead ( granted, he's not some famous actor in a war/sci-fie movie ). So he looks like a "she". Cool.
So, what's there to keep? The pants? I personnally think the bump maps aren't placed very well, so no?
So in reply to your second post, keep cool, I can't do character models either.
-
:rolleyes:
Figured as much. Gotta personalize everything, right, Venom? Interesting to imagine what must go on in your head, auditory input "Um, you missed a light there"- Translate:"OMGWTFUF U IS TEH RETAERD".
Honestly. If you can't figure out the difference between "You're doing something wrong" and "you suck", then just say you don't want commentary in your threads. Or, better yet, don't post, as if you remove the whole self-improvement constructive-criticism end of things all that's really left is empty ego-pumping, and that'll fall flat as you'll never know if people genuinely like it or are just pretending because they don't wanna hurt your delicate feelings.
Suppose the problem with posting in geek forums is that the vast majority of y'all are just giant balls of overly defensive insecurity. Doesn't mean I'm gonna put up with **** because of it.
-
sorry to be rude, but when I read your prose:
Originally posted by Stryke 9
That your "military" getups are almost entirely functionless.[blablabla] Next I shall have to bring out the "fix your model" coloring book. And no, you cannot have "Brick Red", it's mine.
There's not much reasons to feel pretty optimistic. I do like your posts for one reason, at least: they exist. If you look at most of the threads I post in that particular forum, well... I guess I should post FS2 or Startrek stuff, I'd get more attention.
Other than that, if your posts were not so bloated with "peculiar effects so I will sound much cooler ( no offense, of course )", maybe I, poor french dude for whom english is not the native language ( people tend to forget that... ), might grasp the subtleties of your supposedly ( as guessed from that last post ) moderated critics.
Coz if I make a summary of your posts ( in no particular order ):
1)your "military" getups are almost entirely functionless [...] And, hence, look every bit as unthreatening, unconvincing, et al
-> outfit= no good
2)you're showing is skinny twerps wearing big metal plates on their chests.
-> guy= no good
3) etc, coz I don't feel like reading it all over again.
So yeah, I guess I'm obtuse, but sorry, I can't understand anything else from your posts than what is stated above.
-
"Inappropriate for the situation" doesn't mean "no good". The most finely crafted car in the world won't make a salad. Not one you'd want to eat, anyway.
And with the first guy's costume, it's not even entirely that. It looks like a workable set of light armor that just needs more coverage to be really effective.
-
Ah well, I touched up the mesh ( I've redone completly the arms and changed the legs ), I've given him sleeves ( yeah!!!! ), simplified the chest plate, created a displacement map for the pants and sleeves, and Swooh still won't let me upload anything, so voila.
-
...I liked it as is... Let's see the new one... (Ask An0n for hosting...Nico, he doesn't hate you too, does he?)
-
Don't think he hates me, but I already have all my stuff on swooh, I don't like having files spread on multiple servers, that's a pain to find stuff back later.
-
I kinda like the original versions :nervous:
-
Howdy, it worked, I suppose it was cuteftp acting up, in fact. anyway:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/trooperstandstill.jpg)
In Jungle camo flavour, for a change.
-
The body looks good, Venom, but I don't like his face.
And why does the chick look like porn starlet? I don't remember any woman in the military looking like that. ;)
-
Originally posted by mikhael
I don't remember any woman in the military looking like that. ;)
Well.... uhhh.... they should. ;)
By the way, what's the oogly-boogly thingy in the back (of the second pic')? Contents of a garbage can gone badass? :D
-
Is looking like a porn starlet supposed to be a bad thing?
-
Originally posted by mikhael
The body looks good, Venom, but I don't like his face.
But you don't even like Denise Richards face, so I would ask your advice for any mecha stuff, but when it comes to people's faces, mmh, don't think so :p
But it's just a standard, "default" grunt, he doesn't need a special face or anything, a generic one will do.
And why does the chick look like porn starlet? I don't remember any woman in the military looking like that. ;)
maybe you'd remember one, you'd have even better memories from the army :p
Originally posted by Kamikaze
By the way, what's the oogly-boogly thingy in the back (of the second pic')? Contents of a garbage can gone badass?
That's a dead Mycoid, some kind of alien monster ( think Zergs to simplify stuff ):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/dronegrass.jpg)
( man, there's not a single mesh from this thread that was not shown up already before. Now I know why I don't get much replies: people don't even look at my stuff :doubt: )
Originally posted by Stryke 9
...
So... D'you like it better?
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Is looking like a porn starlet supposed to be a bad thing?
Unless we're checking out porn, yeah, it is a bad thing. PornActionGirls (PAGs) annoy me unless there's a damn good reason for them. Eye candy isn't a good enough reason in my opinion.
-
As I probably won't get enough replies to justify a new thread, gonna post my new mesh here:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/cachalot.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/cachalot2.jpg)
That's a dropship, carryall style, pretty huge ( 47.46 meters long, 49.36 meters wide, 20.66 meters tall w/o the landing gears. Scaled around a 1.80 meters tall dude, so the thing is really to scale, and now I realize how ridiculously big are the things in FS2... ).
Has enough fuel to do one "drop" and one "lift off" at full charge. Designed to carry up to 10 heavy class ArmS ( mechs - Gotta calculate how heavy it is ). Not exactly suited for pure atmospheric flight, but can do if needed, with a skilled enough pilot.
Is spaceborne, and will handle well in space.
Oh, it's called Cachalot ( sperm wale in french ).
It's just pics to show off the mesh, it needs a couple details done, and markings, so those quite unclear pics will have to do. I don't expect overly enthousiastic reactions ( if any ) over that thing anyway.
-
....I don't like it... :blah: :doubt:
-
I like the over all design, but I think that 'nose' bit needs more details. I'm guessing that its supposed to be like the space shuttle, and so all that repetitive texture on the bottom is heat shield tiles.
And my taste in faces is fine. I just don't like Denise Richards. One of these days she's going to forget to shave the middle of her unibrow and she's going to end up on TV looking like the Neanderthal throwback she is. She's got a freakish face. Now you wanna talk nice faces that I could look at all day, go take look at... oh say, Ayaka Akimoto (http://home.nc.rr.com/mikhael/ayaka-akimoto.jpg). Compared to her, Denise Richards is like looking at a gorilla.
-
Yeah, I think it's more appropriate. Sorta a classical military suit. Note I never said that being functional and doing something funky were mutually exclusive, though- tons of fun to be had in marine getups (look at, say, the difference between the MDK guy and the power-armored hulks in Fallout). Think you've got more or less the right general idea now, though.
And the dropship... I've never been a fan of simplistic overall shapes, but that's a personal taste. Looks solid, that's for sure.
Mik: She looks, um... nearly pre-pubescent.
-
:lol:
She's japanese. She's twenty-something.
That was always the problem in Japan though. You go to a club, you meet a girl... you GOTTA look at the ID. They'll tell you they're 19, 20, 21... but a lot of times, they're high school girls. The Navy takes a very dim view of servicemen dating minor foreign nationals.
-
Not that you're into that or anything...
:p
-
Originally posted by mikhael
I'm guessing that its supposed to be like the space shuttle, and so all that repetitive texture on the bottom is heat shield tiles.
yeah.
On the subject of japanese girls, the pb is that half of them are ugly, and half of them very beautiful ( no inbetween, afaict ), but all the beautiful ones look the same, more or less.
-
I like the dropship, looks like a Space Shuttle gone mad or something. And I see you also use the Brick procedural for heat tiling.
:D
As for the trooper, it's looking good, but he needs a belt, and the helmet seems a bit too big. Reminds me of the helmets the marines use on the Halo 2 trailer, though.
-
Originally posted by Styxx
And I see you also use the Brick procedural for heat tiling.
:D
Well I didn't exactly felt like using a map and UVmapping the whole mesh :p ( but I would have, you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference ;). To be accurate, the brick procedural is used on the bump channel only ).
-
hop, a work in progress ArmS ( Armored Suit, a mecha, a mech, a big ass robot, call it as you want, in OS canon it's an ArmS, voila ):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/Hulk1.jpg)
The thing in itself is basically done, just needs propper mapping, and the backpack/weapon platform system done, et voila.
-
I like it. I'd like to see a better pic, and more views, though, and a close up of the head.
-
yeah, I'll post some more pics, when it's done, maybe.
-
Originally posted by Nico
hop, a work in progress ArmS ( Armored Suit, a mecha, a mech, a big ass robot, call it as you want, in OS canon it's an ArmS, voila ):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/Hulk1.jpg)
The thing in itself is basically done, just needs propper mapping, and the backpack/weapon platform system done, et voila.
With some good textures this will be pretty badass :)
I'm assuming that the person sits in the chest, with their head going into the head of the ArmS.
I always liked the term Heavy Weapons Platform, HWP, for this sort of thing.
-
Cool.
-
Originally posted by Ace
I'm assuming that the person sits in the chest, with their head going into the head of the ArmS.
No. Well, the pilot is in the chest, of course, but the "head" is a TADS ( like the thing you have on the nose of the Apache, for exemple ), so a bunch of cameras of different kinds.
And there's actually two people in it, one controls the arms, and one the legs. That's team work at its best ( worst? ). I have a system in mind that would allow a single dude to controle the whole thing, but that would require him to stand up inside the machine, so it would make it horribly large.
Never quite understood how they manage to control mechas in most animes, with two joysticks :doubt
The pilot who controls the arms also controls the top TADS ( the "head" ), the pilot in charge of the legs controls the bottom TADS ( under the torso, you should be able to see it, granted, that's not really a TADS, doesn't target anything or stuff ). Both camera sets are linked to the virtual helmets the pilots wear, and will follow the pilot's head motion.
-
Originally posted by Nico
No. Well, the pilot is in the chest, of course, but the "head" is a TADS ( like the thing you have on the nose of the Apache, for exemple ), so a bunch of cameras of different kinds.
And there's actually two people in it, one controls the arms, and one the legs. That's team work at its best ( worst? ). I have a system in mind that would allow a single dude to controle the whole thing, but that would require him to stand up inside the machine, so it would make it horribly large.
Never quite understood how they manage to control mechas in most animes, with two joysticks :doubt
The pilot who controls the arms also controls the top TADS ( the "head" ), the pilot in charge of the legs controls the bottom TADS ( under the torso, you should be able to see it, granted, that's not really a TADS, doesn't target anything or stuff ). Both camera sets are linked to the virtual helmets the pilots wear, and will follow the pilot's head motion.
In Battletech a neural interface is used for control. I'd honestly think that some sort of driving interface (with pedals on the floor) ran by one person would work better than two.
-
yeah, ok, but I doubt that kind of thing will exist before at least 1000 more years :doubt:
-
Depends. We've got basic ones going right now. Nothing more than manipulating a robot arm, and it involves sticking a great ****ing plug in a monkey's head, but they work.
Fun thing about SF these days is there ain't all that much we don't have at least basic technologies in anymore. Laser cannons, nanotech... Me, I can't wait until they come out with Gibsonite waterknives. Weehee!
-
Ah well, anyway, it's too hightech for that robot, I want it to be the kind "simple but tough", if you know what I mean.
I perfer oil to electronics, in OS.
-
started working on the bump map:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/Hulk2.jpg)
Bump done only on the arms, everywhere else it's just artefacts ( I'm using a single map for the whole mesh, so all the objects w/o an UVmapping would complain so I droped a random UV on everything, and sometimes you can see parts of the bump map on other parts of the mecha, mostly on the legs).
Please note how nice I am, I'm seting up a pose for every WIP shot I do :D ( the thing looks dumb on the basic pose :p ).
edit: removed the lvlshot tag, it doesn't like that pic format, obviously.
-
In Battletech they use neuro-helmets.
The helmet transfers the signals of the limbs to the pilots brain through nodes that touch the pilot's scrag. It also monitors the brain like an electo-encefalograf and uses the data to conrtol the limbs.
Still actual control is achieved through the use of pedals and joysticks - but it only gives the general idea of what the mech has to peform, balancing and fine movement is taken care of by the mechwarrior who does the whole stuff subcounsciously just the way you walk and keep your body balanced.
In other anime - Gundam particulary - a very complex computer program controls the limbs called Auto-Balance-System or smg. similar.
The pilot also uses pedals in Gundam. The pedals control the legs, the joysticks the arms as well as verniers when deployed in space.
In Robotech/Macross you don't see it but the pilot has to use over 36 control devices - this is mentioned in one of the earlier episodes.
I guess this means a wide variety of pedals and highly flexible joystikcs (even today joysticks with over 12 axises are used in robot control of industy piplines.)
In Escaflowne the pilot actually wore the whole armor.
Bracers and clips huggeg his body so the suit simply copied every move he made.
In the recent mecha show Full Metal Panic the same method was used, except a computer assisted the pilot - which was controlled with voice-command.
In animatrics the same method was used for the powerarmors.
Actually this method was used in 'Starship Troopers' and Joe Haldman's 'Forever War'.
My suggestions is that you use this kind of system for powered armors and humanoid mecha (even with chiken legs) that are land based.
Anything with verniers of space use will also has to have another system (Nerve-Interface?).
BTW actual neuro-interfaces are in development as of date.
They are very basic and work like an EGG, but suprisingly people learnt to use them!
They could actually fly a simulator with it!
The most likely solution for a spacemecha will use some limited version of the said interface.
The issue wherter using complex - but not form fiting suit like -control devices (like in Macross Pluss) will be sufficient is open to debate.
I think even in this case the middle road will be the most likely:
Your movement will be partially limited and copied by the mecha, while you will still have conservative control devices to use in connection with the 'suit'.
As for those who oppose the whol mecha idea:
IIRC the American Army develops walking taks for very rough terrain where tanks simply can't mauver. (This seems futile since helicopters seem to own tanks, still to actually occupy a territory you will always need infantry - and to get them there, you'll need tanks.)
I don't know details, but even if in special cases the idea has its real merits.
-
Originally posted by Flaser
In Battletech they use neuro-helmets.
The helmet [...]- which was controlled with voice-command.
Yeah, i know all those animes ( in FMP, the voice command is just to get some infos, really, you don't pilot the AS with your voice :p ), but yet I can't explain how one could control a arm, + a hand + 5 ****ing fingers with a joystick.
I'm well aware the "two people thing" to control the mech isn't the best, but that's exactly what I want. I don't want it to be the best.
The control system itself is an armature around the arms and hands ( like in escaflowne or gunbuster -in FMP, they use pedals ). For the legs, well, it's the same, I shamelessly ripped the idea from matrix revolutions. It's that, or you have one pilot, still with the arms thinguy, but with pedals only for the legs, and I can't imagine two pedals being enough to control the whole legs. sure, with balance control and stuff, you can go forward or backward, but forget about sidesteps and stuff with that.
In animatrics the same method was used for the powerarmors.
Actually this method was used in 'Starship Troopers' and Joe Haldman's 'Forever War'.
My suggestions is that you use this kind of system for powered armors and humanoid mecha (even with chiken legs) that are land based.
Anything with verniers of space use will also has to have another system (Nerve-Interface?).
BTW actual neuro-interfaces are in development as of date.
They are very basic and work like an EGG, but suprisingly people learnt to use them!
They could actually fly a simulator with it!
The most likely solution for a spacemecha will use some limited version of the said interface.
The issue wherter using complex - but not form fiting suit like -control devices (like in Macross Pluss) will be sufficient is open to debate.
I think even in this case the middle road will be the most likely:
Your movement will be partially limited and copied by the mecha, while you will still have conservative control devices to use in connection with the 'suit'.
As for those who oppose the whol mecha idea:
IIRC the American Army develops walking taks for very rough terrain where tanks simply can't mauver. (This seems futile since helicopters seem to own tanks, still to actually occupy a territory you will always need infantry - and to get them there, you'll need tanks.)
I don't know details, but even if in special cases the idea has its real merits. [/B]
It's not a space mecha, it's a simple walker.
As for real life mechas, seems the french army is also working on one, for urban warfare, where tanks are easy targets.
-
Mmmmm. Joe Haldeman. Forever*. That man rocks. :)
Nice job on the bump maps, Venom. I honestly would have used geometry for that, since I lack skill at mapping. Is it just a bump map (it just effects the way the surface renders) or is it a displacement map (changes the geometry at the last moment before the render)?
-
just bump maps. I want to keep the polycount to a minimum, so a displacement map would ruin the idea, would be even better to have the details modeled actually. Plus honestly, I think it does look quite 3D to me, even those large round things on the forearms ( that's the area I had the most doubts, since it's fairly deep and complicated ).
Note that I also change some stuff on the meshes as I go through the mesh ( extruded some joints between the finger segments, for exemple, and the "head" really needs for detailling. I already have a very detailled TADS - the one I did for the sabre -, but it really has too many polys compared to the rest of the mecha ).
-
yeah, without a dobut, Venom, the arm maps look EXCELLENT. Even just as bumps the detail comes through beautifully.
Why are you trying to keep the polycount low?
-
Coz my PC is quite low end, and before, I had real nightmares working on animated scenes with very high polys meshes ( for my oleon wars trailer, for exemple ), and i don't want to go through that again.
-
Ah, I get it.
Does 3dsMax not let you use stand-in objects during the animation process? I know when I was working with my Beetle (half a million polies) I used a much lower poly standin for the rigging (3k poly, I think). Made things much saner.
Still, the final render does use the half million poly models, so the render takes for ever. Of course, I had the school render farm to work with then.
-
Yes, it does ( Xref objects and even scenes can be used ), but with my 900mhz, a simple scene with raytracing and stuff, sees its render time increase exponantialy with the polycount. I can't spend 90 hours of render for a 30 seconds sequence, sadly, but be sure I'd love to. A low poly mesh can't compare with a high poly one, no matter how many bump maps you throw on it :(.
-
Actually Venom...er Nico they used the same suit as in Escaflowne or Gunbuster - you just didn't watch the whole show so far.
(It was visible in only the last episode!)
What I meant is that they controlled the movement and fought with the armslave using the whole suit - and it probably monitored head movement to control the arm slaves head, but to contol the equipment of the mecha - like radio, radar, ecm ect. they used voicecommand, 'casue they got all their hands full just controlling the AS.
BTW what version of Max are you running?
I have a 1.6 P4 process and would be willing to render for you - though uploading the avi may take just as much (unless you let me shrink it with DivX or Xvid).
-
Originally posted by Nico
Yes, it does ( Xref objects and even scenes can be used ), but with my 900mhz, a simple scene with raytracing and stuff, sees its render time increase exponantialy with the polycount. I can't spend 90 hours of render for a 30 seconds sequence, sadly, but be sure I'd love to. A low poly mesh can't compare with a high poly one, no matter how many bump maps you throw on it :(.
Yeah, Max's scanline renderer isn't known for its speed or ability to handle large numbers of polys. Its time for you to build a second machine, so you can work on one and render on the other.
-
im not sure i can contribute anything intelligent to this conversation, but id like to say two things anyway and then you can laugh at me.
the one in that last pic looks like he only has one leg. its just a perspective thing, i suppose.
question: this may take the whole point out of mechs, but since its all made up anyway, why dont you have a form fitting suit for the human and a radio transmitter of some sort beaming the movements the guy makes to the machine, which is actually out in the field? then if someone kills the machine, you get to keep your soldier. i suppose that'd be like robots, except not exactly.
-
uhm, Nico, is there a way of making an exe from certain scene ready to be rendered, so that you can send that exe to someone who as computer time left over, and that person can give you the animation?
-
Yes. Networkers of the sort are a pain in the arse to make, much less get anyone to use, though.
-
Originally posted by Flaser
Actually Venom...er Nico they used the same suit as in Escaflowne or Gunbuster - you just didn't watch the whole show so far.
(It was visible in only the last episode!)
hey? I've seen the whole show, I've even seen fumoffu ( ok, you don't see the AS in it, buit you get my point ;)
Bah, I'm watching the series again with a friend, so I'll pay attention next time.
I use max 5.0
Thanks for the render offer, but usually I render my videos as separated frames then I recompile them, uncompressed, and do my compositing with uncompressed videos in premiere, and then only do I compress the final animation.
Icespeed: yup, that's the perspective, my camera angle wasn't very smart: the ArmS is walking there, and the right leg is right behind the left one ( you can see the foot, still )
As for remote controliing, it's the same deal than with planes and all that stuff (well, to me, at least ):
1) there's always things that can make you lose contact ( static, magnetic interference, etc )
2) if you can remote-control the thing, what stops the enemy from using a more powerful emitter and turn your own weapon against you?
And no, I won't laugh at you, coz there's no reason to, but also mainly coz I've used up all my "maliciousness" yesterday on a friend of mine. Don't have any left :p
kasperl: see my answer to Flaser. If you don't have max5, nope, not possible.
Anyway, I'm not complaining, I live with it, it just forces me to optimize my meshes to stupid levels, which is not a bad thing, in the end.
-
i suppose so. how about not sending any fighters out at all, but just randomly sending bursts of scrambling static at the other guys?
okay, that was an even stupider suggestion. forget it.
-
and if i do have a "version" of max 5?
-
Originally posted by Nico
As for remote controliing, it's the same deal than with planes and all that stuff (well, to me, at least ):
1) there's always things that can make you lose contact ( static, magnetic interference, etc )
2) if you can remote-control the thing, what stops the enemy from using a more powerful emitter and turn your own weapon against you?
1) Interference is a concern, yes. There are, however, ways around it. A broad spectrum approach could be used, as could directed point to point comms.
2) With reasonable levels of encryption, such as used for realtime sattelite communication and text message traffic in the military today, you would not have to worry about the enemy hijacking your gear. By the time they've cracked your encryption protocol, you'll have changed to a different protocol.
Of course, this is your work and world, so feel free to ignore everything I just said. Get back to work on the mech. :D
-
From a technical point of view, I suppose you're right but... ok, to make things short, wouldn't be as cool if there was no pilot in the thing, I hate remote controled things, they ruin the "chivalry spirit" of the whole thing :D
Didn't have the time to work on it today, only added the outer side hand bump map. inner side and fingers next, then legs, then feet ( altho I may redo the meshes completly first, I'm not too happy with them ). They I'll have to work a lot on the body before bump mapping it.
I dropped the gyro arm thing for the weapons, would be an IK nightmare to do, and the setup of the mech makes it kindda difficult to execute anyway. the gun support will just be lowered when needed, the gun picked up, then the support goes back to place, it won't stay and move with the gun anymore as I planed.
For now, I've planed 3 kinds of weapons ( I want to base them on real weapons, so I'll have to decide which country this ArmS is from first ):
1) the machine gun. I'll have to look at todays very large machineguns to adapt one. The obvious choice would be the Avenger, but it's a bit cliche, and I have to check its scale first, compared to the Hulk
2) Sniper rifle: well, basically, an adapted tank main gun, with smoke and sound supressor.
3) "shotgun": I completly made up that one, and the mesh is even done already ( tho a bit on the high poly side... ). Basically, you have fast firing versions of a hand gun, well, the Volcano would be a fast firing version of a shotgun. A gatling shooting very large area projectiles if you want. Of course, the rate of fire is nowhere near the one of a gatling, something around 2 or 3 shots a second probably. The shell works like a shotgun shell, it doesn't go, instead, it's spews lots of metal marbles. The weapon is designed to supress mycoids groups at short range. Bah, to make short, it's just a cool looking, devastating big gatling :p
there, a pic:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/volcano1.jpg)
I'll make the main "body" longer so it can be carried easily ( two-handed weapon ). Also, the ammunition cartridge ( the box underneath ), is really too small to be any realistic, I'll remove it, and ammos will be carried in the ArmS backpack, and fed to the gun via a chain ( same setup for all the weapons ). The current cartridge support thinguy will be used to dock the weapon to the right arm, and luckily, the two round things on it fits perfectly to the two round bits on the arms. Lucky :p
The weapon will be held up side down.
-
how big will that be as compared to the mech?
-
miniguns are a nice way to ruin the light infantry's day.
-
Originally posted by icespeed
how big will that be as compared to the mech?
Venom pointed out that the two little round bits visible on the side there fit exactly into the two little round bits he's put on the sides of the arms. I'd say its pretty damned big compared to the mech itself. Like the size of a leg nearly.
-
yeah, something like that. And it'll be bigger for practical reasons ( the left hand can't reach the handle as it is now, I think ). I guess the Hulk will be required to put a knee down to use that gun. Hmm, no, I'll make up something on the feet, some claw, I think.
Oh, I like that idea actually, could have other uses.
But first I need to correct that rotation bug max just threw at me :doubt:
"walks away, drawing plans in his head"
-
Some sort of claw to stabilize the mech when it fires?
Venom's designing a glitterboy. :D
-
glitterboy?
-
Its from a Palladium RPG, called Rifts.
A glitterboy is a suit of mobile armor that carries a gun so big that to fire it, the unit has to sink support pylons into the ground and retrofire a back-bounted booster cluster just to handle the recoil. :D
Rifts is all about bigger-stronger-faster-morepowerful stuff in each sourcebook. Its a shame, since they waste a lot of good art on a bad game world and game system.
-
oh
The claws would be coz I think it's more "cool" to have the mech standing while firing rather than being crounched, that's it :)
-
You have to admit that the idea of having to clamp down to the ground because your gun is THAT DAMN BIG is a pretty cool idea (if a bit overcompensating if you know what I mean. ;)).
If I still have them, I'll scan some pics from the RPG source books. You might like some of the Coalition mecha styles. Almost all very tough looking. They've got one that looks like a giant skull walking on four or six spider legs. Utterly impractical, but groovy looking none the less. :D
-
mmh, well, animes are cluttered with mechas which uses oversized guns, but yeah, any "study" material is welcome :)
On a side note, most mobile artillery vehicles in todays armies need to clamp themsleves to the ground in order to fire, so actually, it's a realistic idea I got there.
yeay for me :p
-
but maybe you should look at the other guns first, see how you can adapt them. after all, you might not need those support claws with the other ones.
-
I've put my mecha on hold to go back to my two old loves: spaceships and cell-shading. And to do so in a fitting way, I've decided to start a new big project ( second one after my Oleon Wars trailer ), a music clip featuring a space battle in my OuterSpaces universe ( the music, for those who know, will be Green Bird, from the Cowboy Bebop OST ).
So, the ship:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell3.jpg)
It's a work in progress, the mapping isn't completed, and the mesh still needs some tweaking.
Background info:
"Northrop/Lockheed Martin SF-24 Wraith
Light fighter featuring the most advanced US technologies, with high maneuvrability and reduced radar signature. Its prefered role is space superiority and interception, altho the pic features anti-capship loadout."
Btw, about my older ship, the Sabre ( that will be reworked ), I've decided it would be a russian design, so I need a name change. Anybody familiar with russian language?
-
Sweet design, Venom. My only complaint is the way the cockpit hull goes from smooth toward the front to rather blocky toward the back. It seems rather forced. That could just be the viewing angle though.
Can we get some other views? and perhaps a wireframe?
-
a wireframe shot? there you go:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithwireframe.jpg)
-
Looks like the bottom surface and the forward fuselage might be a bit plain compaired to the work you've put into the tail end of the craft.
-
I didn't put backface, so you can't see the bottom ( but it does need work, since I haven't worked on it at all ).
The front is fine, w/o the wireframe, you couldn't have tell it was like that, heh? :p
I've removed the triangular panels on the side of the fuselage, in front of the wings, btw. messed up the smoothing, and resulted in those plain colored shapes you can see in the previous pic.
edit: updated shot
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell4.jpg)
I expected more feedback with that one btw :doubt:
-
She looks sweet from this angle. I don't know how much I like the verniers being square, but that's a very nice and sensible design.
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell5.jpg)
Updated a bit, and I tested how it reacts to raytracing by the same occasion.
-
very nice:yes: :)
-
Thanks :)
another update:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell6.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell7.jpg)
I need to cap the holes in the cockpit, now, and make the canopy metal half-circle thinguy more rounded, obviously.
-
...I know I can't, But I'd love to play in game with that. :D :yes:
-
Well, bare high poly density areas ( cockpit, around the gun openings, weapons, and a couple other parts ), it's far from being that poly heavy, actually, but I gave up doing an OS campaign long ago already ( an OS mod was my first attempt at a campaign, a few years ago :p )
-
Someday I'll be able to make things like that, I hope. :) Keep it up.
-
You know, Venom, the more I look at that, the less I like those verniers. You should really change them so that they're rounded.
It does look sweet against a starfield though. :D
-
First, I need to know what verniers mean, then I'll think about it :p
-
Originally posted by neo_hermes
miniguns are a nice way to ruin the light infantry's day.
Miniguns are a very nice way to ruin everbodys day....especially if they use 30mm high-explosive, armour-piercing shells...with depleted uranium:devil:
-
hop, another pic, for no special reason, just because I wanted to:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell8.jpg)
-
need you any other reason, a damn good pic i might add, also ever thought of re-trying that outer space mod now you can use high poly models and all that jaxx?
-
Nah, don't want to start another soon-to-be-cancelled project.
Besides, OS is meant for newtonian physics, I was willing to forget about that point back then, but not anymore.
-
Originally posted by Nico
First, I need to know what verniers mean, then I'll think about it :p
[color=cc9900]I believe he means the directional thrusters on the sides.
And I like it, I like it a lot.[/color]
-
Verniers are the vectored thrusters on the side pods and the top and bottom.
And you know, Venom, you could convert those ships for Iwar2. ;)
-
Very nice ship design. I'm no 3D Guru, but IMHO it could use a bit more of a smooth front.
-
very nice again:) :yes: :yes: :yes:
-
Originally posted by mikhael
Verniers are the vectored thrusters on the side pods and the top and bottom.
And you know, Venom, you could convert those ships for Iwar2. ;)
Ah, ok. Well I might modify them, but no way I'll do them round, that wouldn't fit with the design at all.
As for IWar2, no I can't, I can't use LW.
WMCoolmon: I don't want it to be more smoothed, my PC can't handle super high poly meshes. For medium and far shots, it's way enough the way it is now.
-
I have a question, but first, a pic:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wasp.jpg)
That's the Wasp, a Vodian medium ( multirole ) fighter. A very old design of mine, redesigned after freespace came out ( basically, those damn Vasudan, beside having a similar name to my species, had also the exact same scale+sand colo scheme. I'm sure the Volition guys copied me :p ). So I already removed the scales back then, but now I need to find another color scheme, and I'm kind of short on ideas. I was thinking white + some other color, but I'm not sure. Suggestions?
side note 1 : the model will be redone, it might not be obvious there, but it's awful, and has way too many polygons
side note 2 : the brown thing on the nose is not the cockpit, as people often think. The cockpit is under the plate behind the brown thing. The brown thing... wait. The Brown Thing™ is a kind of visual device, a 360° camera if you want. The pilots helmet is linked to it, and he feels like there's no ship around him. Similar to the system on my Arms, but much more advanced.
-
I like it, except the shape of the wings. Don't worry about Volition ripping off your idea for Vasudans. Andromeda ripped off one of my designs for the Nietchians.
For the colors, go with something like black and grey, or black and a royal blue IF you must you black. I'd like to see more Red/Grey stuff or more Blue/Orange stuff myself. Yellow/Black might be good too.
-
*Nah, not black. Those dudes have the same mindset as humans, they're not better, not worst. Black would make them look mean.
Besides, I already have given the black/grey colour scheme to the Grays.
I was thinking white/orange, what do you think?
*I don't like the wing too, that's one of the parts I wanna redo
*I'm still tweaking the materials and small details on the Wraith:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell10.jpg)
funilly enough, trying to get a mixing cell shading/real shading, I think I rarely came closer to photorealism before than with that pic when I really tried :doubt:. How screwed is that?
-
Have you tried a purple and grey color scheme for the alien thingy? I mean, I like it as it is, but purple/grey is good, Black/grey but you said no already, Grey/Green, Purple/green, if done right... etc.
*goes back to practicing in Max*
-
I'd like to avoid purple, it screams Covenant to me :p
yeah, I think I'll settle for orange+something. Orange, you don't see it that often, and it can be cool if it's not overdone.
-
Orange and...?
Not too many colors work well with Orange.
Maybe Orange and grey/white? (Creamsicle!)
-
well yeah, I was thinking orange and white.
-
Taking a break from spaceships, I've started making a Vodian:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/vodian.JPG)
The mesh could probably use some refining, but it's gonna stay like that for now.
Background babling:
"First contact with the Vodians occurs in 2071, when a gigantic fleet enters Sol, fleeing the Mycoid threat.
Regardless of their strange physical appearance, they're very similar to humans. They have numerous spoken and written languages, various cultures, they value intellectual activities, arts and sports, enjoy music, have commercial activities based on money, and their IQ is equal to that of a human.
They seem to have evolved from some kind of apes, living in trees, and if they seem clumsy on flat ground, their agility in the air can't be contested by terrans. Because of this, they seem to have developped unmatched skills as pilots, which gave them a clear advantage during the war.
The Vodians are omnivorous mammals, give birth to one child at a time, after a 9 month long pregnancy. Twins and more exists.
They political systems [etc]"
-
Damn you, Venom, nobody is allowed to be better than me! Nobody!!!
But, um, the alien... looks kinda like a slightly malevolent Pokemon. Between the outsize head and human body-type that looks like it's trying to look inhuman and failing rather than just going for it (a la Star Trek- don't go down that road, incidentially, regular people with funny heads make ****e aliens), it's a bit too cartoony to fit in the rather serious-looking context you've got going here.
Probably everything could be fixed by making the head more or less proportional to the body and either removing the extra pair of legs or giving the thing a physique that really makes it looks like they evolved with 'em and they have some biological function, rather than just being some doohickey tacked onto their form to make sure nobody mistakes them for people with funny skulls. And maybe some gills or excess orifices or something, I dunno, you see those sorts of things a lot on aliens these days so I'd imagine they're somehow desirable or something.
-
very cool:) :yes:
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Damn you, Venom, nobody is allowed to be better than me! Nobody!!!
Way too late, you f00 :p
But, um, the alien...[...] or something.
The mesh could probably use some refining, but it's gonna stay like that for now.
No "gills or excess orifices" ( save for the ears, I got rid of them on that pic, messed up the smooth shadings ), they're not Aliens they're... herm... aliens.
Anyway, it won't change much, I designed this dude some 6 years ago, it went through some changes since then, of course ( some features would obviously not work IRL, like the orginal shape of the hands ), but I've grown to love this dude, I have like hundreds of drawings of those in my room, male, female, young, old,with power armor, with those nasty "guitar shaped" ( don't ask ) flamethrowers, talking, dying, living, etc.
It's obvious the design works better in 2D than in 3D, but I won't make drastical design changes.
-
I'd like to see multiple angles on this guy. Maybe its just the camera angle, but Stryke's right: his head is way too damn big.
-
I'll see about that later.
Wheeee, just finished my best face mesh ever!!!:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/meyayoungredux.jpg)
Just a little something to fix on the nose ( plus it's a bit squished ).
Hair is just a template, I won't keep it.
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/meyayoungcloth.jpg)
Playing with Reactor to try clothes. A couple obvious pbs there :(
-
Hop, I've modified the Wraith. I've kept the old one, renamed it XF-27, dubbed it "demonstrator", never know, might be useful some day.
So, here's the series version ( still needs a lot of work, mostly the underneath that will evolve much ):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell11.jpg)
First of all, I've removed the nose guns, then I've gotten rid of the underneath forwad/backward engine set. I've made a small engine set that can deal with all axis at the same time ( +/-"Y", +/-"Z", and either + or - "X" ). Four of them replaces the top engine set, and the two vernier (as Mike call them ) pods on the wing tips ( the wing span has been increased a bit, too ).
Man, that thread is full is quite chaotic :p
-
SEXY. I like the new vernier setup.
Now, are you sure you don't want to round off the nose a bit more? It looks a bit segmented.
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell12.jpg)
Better? ( since I touched up the mesh, the mapping is fubbared, of course ).
You know, your siggy is so large I can't even see the pic above with the one I just posted :doubt:
-
Just Amezing:) :yes: :yes:
-
Yeah, the newer version is even sexier.
Sorry about the long sig. I killed the Kaz quotes and the bumper sticker and reduced it to the three most important.
-
I need a break from modifying that ship today, so I'll render it instead. Prepare for some sillyness :p
-
Bwaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithbigguns.jpg)
I just wanted big guns, meh.
-
Ooh! Me wants! :yes: :nod: :drool: :crazy jealousy: :jaw: :jaw2: :jaw3:
-
hey where did my message go... propably lost in the web-heaven.
oh well...
And a damn good face it is indeed :nod:
-
Again just amazing:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell13.jpg)
Big update :p
I've deleted about half the mesh, and rebuilt the darn thing much more streamlined. Not my favourite kind of design, but I'll make an exception with this one. Gotta have to redo the whole mapping, because of that :p
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell14.jpg)
Started the "not so fun" bump map ctreation part again... If you pay attention, you'll notice there's more than just the large lines... I wonder if it's worth the effort, but at least I won't do a half assed job.
-
Actually, it looks well worth the effort. If it was missing, wou'd wonder what it was the ship is lacking.
Now bake it and put it in FS2. :p
-
i kinda liked the various lumps and bumps and panels on the previous one, but i suppose it did look a bit pockmarked.
the girl with the clothes looks flat, i mean 3d but like someone squished her a bit...
orange and grey for the wasp? maybe subtle sorta tiger stripes? perhaps wasp stripes would be more appropriate
-
Nah lol, I don't want stripes ala tiger or hornet , I was thinking, dunno, markings like on the Xwing from star wars ;)
-
i wasnt thinking really bright things, though i suppose that'd be what you get with orange and some other colour. maybe orange and some other shade of orange. oh well, your choice.
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell15.jpg)
Hop, bump map for the main body, top section is done :)
I've filled the bumps with a dark colour so you can see the lines, but it won't be that visible in the end.
-
Originally posted by Nico
Nah, don't want to start another soon-to-be-cancelled project.
Besides, OS is meant for newtonian physics, I was willing to forget about that point back then, but not anymore.
Pst....Newtonian physics are semi-possible in fs2....
-
Can't be done the way I want.
-
How do you want it done?
-
Why do you want to know? it can't be done, it won't be done, so I won't bother.
-
I've done some nifty stuff with the tables, and I want to see if it REALLY can't be done.
-
UT nt-physics begin with no upper speed limit, so it's impossible right now.
-
Pretty simple to fix. Create a super-high, nigh-unreachable speed limit on every ship, something like 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999.
Of course, for gameplay purposes, that'd be pretty boring.
-
If that was the only pb, that would be simple :p
-
Venom, the update looks very snazzy. But what gets me is the render with the overwing weapon pods. That's awesome and really really really needs to be my new wallpaper. 1600x1200 please. ;)
-
That could be done, but, herm, you sure? I understand you have no pb with the old mesh, but the messy maps?
edit: that said, it's not really difficult to switch the hulls and engines. Ok, I'll do a couple fiddling and i'll post your wallpaper :P
-
:D
From that angle you don't really see the messed up maps. I guess I'll wait though.
-
there you go:
http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/Wraithwallpaper.rar
-
Hop, last update for tonight I think:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell16.jpg)
and for fun, with the quad Volcano gun setup:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell17.jpg)
-
Personally, I think a dark grey (nearly black) color with the cockpit having a red hue would look best.
It would match with the USAF's current aircraft design idea, and red light is better for low-light vision.
-
well, it changes colours at about every shot I do, now, so I guess it's gonna be black sooner or later :p.
I should rename it cameleon :p
edit: as for the red cockpit, I just tried, it looks trully awful.
-
meh, looks GDI-ish......
but nice still, best color sceme so far, keep the colors if your gonna abandon the USAF theme
-
Uh....it's an overkill issenit?
-
There's no such thing as overkill. :D
Looks good Venom. What's going on with the belly? Have you decided what you're going to do under there?
-
Flaser: yeah, it is :D
It's for fun, that thing would never carry all that ( at one exception, but shhh ).
It's a stealth light ship, it's not meant to carry super heavy assault weapons :p
Originally posted by mikhael
Looks good Venom. What's going on with the belly? Have you decided what you're going to do under there?
The belly? I had ideas, they didn't work out the way I wanted, I'm back to the darn drawing boards now. Same goes for the area beatween the two back engine pods.
-
...time for showdown!
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell18.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell19.jpg)
It's boring to just post updates of small pieces of maps, so I try new skins at the same time ( I keep the old ones: blue one is Marine, green one is, herm, I called it assault, have no fitting name, the brown one is TacOps and this one SpecOps :p ) , and also different loadouts :p
This loadout isn't really fitted for that ship either, I'm gonna build lighter machineguns in stealth casing, and the same for missiles.
The nosegun, well, i's from another of my ships, just thrown in there to see how it'd look like.
-
Green in space? I'd think military gray, or at least off white ;)
-
I really like the way you've set up the hardpoint mounts, Venom.
-
well thanks :)
seen from front, that would be:
..X.....00.....X..
......X.00.X......
( X being a weapon mount, and 0 the hull ). There's additional mounts on the wings, but it's to dock additional systems ( like the ammunition packs on the pics above ), not weapons.
UT: it's just for fun :p
-
Do your ships use fuel?
Try putting external tanks, then :D In convieniently easy-to-hit locations ;) :p
-
Yeah, external drop tanks would be a good way to add details on the belly of the fighter. Also, a back-swept comms antenna.
-
The way it works, it doesn't need that much fuel actually. Engines work by small bursts, they don't stay ignited.
And external anything is not the best for a stealth fighter ( I already forced myself not to put the weapons inside, so... )
-
Venom (Nico, whatever), if you're aiming for the "realistic" look of OS (what's that stand for?) I'm interested in knowing how you're gonna manage the space-fighter controls?
-
I can't say only just amazing:) :yes:
-
No need for fuel. Good.
Now what about heat radiator surfaces? You'll need some way of dumping heat.
You'll also need a sensor array, and a communications cluster, and perhaps a directional communications laser, if you want to do the stealth thing.
-
I'm assuming that the sensors array is in the nose, that's why there's the blue glass there.
-
*drools*
-
Originally posted by Ace
I'm assuming that the sensors array is in the nose, that's why there's the blue glass there.
I was guessing that was your basic avionics/sensor package up front. A stealth ship would likely have a more advanced passive sensor package aside from the standard one. Besides, I'm just trying to help Venom think of something to stuff to put on the belly.
-
okok, i'm gonna reply to all that, but first, remember our discussoin yesterday, Mike? Enjoy :)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/quadvolcano.JPG)
That thing is hellish :D
-
ok, now, in chronological order:
UT: well, you see the verniers, there's enough of them of all the axis ( for exemple, bank left, you fire the two upward verniers on the left, and the two downward ones on the right. The onboard computer deals with how much thrust is needed to maintain balance ). Voila for the extrenal stuff. Now, pilot controls:
you have two pedals ( not rudder controls ) and two joysticks ( not one + gaz control ).
Pedals are for forward/backward thrust ( like in a car, save theres no gear to switch ). You push the right pedal, the ship will go forward. The longer you push, the more it'll accelerate. Release the pedal, it'll stop accelerating. The left pedal is used to go in "reverse". Each pedal is of course also used to slow down from the opposed applied thrust.
The right joystick works the same as on a real life fighter
The right stick is for strafing up/down and left/right.
Torsion on the right joystick controls rolls.
The left joystick works the same as the pedals, the right one applies the same opposed thrust when you stop moving it, to counter inertia.
Voila.
Mike: heat radiators? yeah, why not, but why would it need that more than a real fighter? :)
I'll think about it, tho, coz I like how those things look like.
The things on the nose are sensors ( don't know what kind tho :p ), yeah. There's also one planed under the nose.
-
That's ALMOST exactly the same as what I envisioned for NOVA.
Except in NOVA, the two joysticks are not independent, but work together. The throttle control is the same as yours BUT, the joysticks are different. The dominant one can be switched (righties or lefties), but the dominant control controls pitch and roll. If you push one joystick forward and pull the other back, you'll yaw in the direction of the joystick that's pulled back. Pushing both joysticks to the same side will side-slip in that direction. Pulling both to opposite sides will send you straight up, pushing both to the center will send you straight down.
-
But that means you can't do some moves? for exemple, going down while moving the nose up, well if I've understood well, that is.
ANyway, i've thought my method for a long, long time, and I think that's the best I can imagine. sounds logical and quite easy to me.
-
Nice fire effect on the Volcano. That rocks. :D
The idea of heat radiator fins should be on ALL fighters in a real hard scifi universe.
Originally posted by Nico
Pedals are for forward/backward thrust ( like in a car, save theres no gear to switch ). You push the right pedal, the ship will go forward. The longer you push, the more it'll accelerate. Release the pedal, it'll stop accelerating. The left pedal is used to go in "reverse". Each pedal is of course also used to slow down from the opposed applied thrust.
If I had some pedals for my Cougar, I could set that exact system up right now. :D
Come to think of it, I could probably set up your left-hand stick too (so long as I assigned the actions to the microstick on the throttle)...
That's a pretty sensible way of setting things up, Venom. :)
-
Thanks, as I said, I really thought this up for a long time.
The only thing I don't like that much is the torsion for bank left/right, but I can't see what else I could have done.
-
(http://hades-combine.com/Upload/uploads/wraithcell19%20copy.jpg)
-
Originally posted by Nico
But that means you can't do some moves? for exemple, going down while moving the nose up, well if I've understood well, that is.
ANyway, i've thought my method for a long, long time, and I think that's the best I can imagine. sounds logical and quite easy to me.
I thought of that. I was thinking maybe if you hold down a switch, the computer will "remember" your previous control movement, so you push inwards to go down, then right to side-slip right, and the computer will do both until the controls are moved to a different position/centered.
And going down while nose up is easy, you can just push both sticks to the center and one slightly back.
-
Krackers
Originally posted by Nico
[about the camo color] it's just for fun :p [...]This loadout isn't really fitted for that ship either, I'm gonna build lighter machineguns in stealth casing, and the same for missiles.
Therefore: idiot. ( besides since when stealth ships are invisible? )
UT: sounds complicated to me, honestly...
Hop, I've made a short, low res animation to show the gun in action, but for now I can't upload it, so here's a screenshot instead:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/bratatatata.jpg)
-
ok, since I delayed it a bit, I rerendered the thing in DVD resolution :D ( 712*382, but compressed ), and this time the pilot actually hits his target :p:
http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/quadvolcano.avi (about 500 kb, divx5 )
-
Originally posted by Nico
UT: sounds complicated to me, honestly...
[/img]
It is in theory, but I don't believe it'll be so complicated in practice ;)
Anyway, I want more renders! :D
-
renders? I've just posted a fricken video! :p
-
Originally posted by Nico
http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/quadvolcano.avi (about 500 kb, divx5 )
;7
I want more!
-
Both control methods sound promising, but I'm afraid you underestimate the capabilities of the pilot.
Let the computer handle stabilisation alone and give the pilot full control over the thrusters - or the overall working of the thrusters.
I got this idea from an arcade game I played a really long time ago (only once and I was 12!).
You don't distribute the controls among the sticks or the pedals, instead you make a control system where the joint movement of the control devices creates the current thruster configuration.
What do I mean?
Let the pedals control the nosal thrusters of the fighter - your legs are bolted to the pedals, so you can both push and pull them - you'd need that anyway in zero-g.
If you puch the left pedal down, the left-lower-nosal thruster kick up, if you lift it the upper thrusters will.
You control the verniers with the sticks - they will be just a tad more complex than what you have right now:
If you pull a stick towards yourself the lower thruster on that side will kick in, the other with the other stick.
Pushing it will start the upper thruster.
If you push the stick to the side 2 things can happen: if it's a to the side where the stick is, the thruster on the opposite end will kick in and slide you, the same with the other stick.
The system may seem redundant, however it's TRUE, that you can't both slide and spin with maximum thrust at the same time.
To achieve a roll on any axis, you'll have to use the controls among the axis oppositly or use just a single control on one side.
To slide you use the controls in conjuntion.
If you want to both slide an spin you'll aply more thrust on either side of an axis.
Throtle is either controlled by torquing on or both sticks or pushing them forward Gundam esque.
I'll drow a representation once I got my webspace working.
-
Originally posted by Flaser
- your legs are bolted to the pedals,
that would kinda suck. Use magnets to attatck or just use clip on shoes; like the kind bicylists use... would give the pilot more freedom of movement.
-
Originally posted by Flaser
[...]
Well, my way works fine, is simpler and more intuitive, why would I go for a complicated solution like that? Besides, the way I do, the CPU does only control balance, the verniers are all locked to the movements you can achive, and you can do any movement you want, like going backward, tsrafing to the left, upward, banking to the right while rotating the ship so it keeps aimaing at a specific point, I can't see how it could be more efficient than that, coz you have complete freedom over all axis, and it's simple and intuitive. No, I won't touch my system anymore.
-
My version gives a finer control over the ship, but you could be right never the less.
-
No update on the wraith today, but the wasp instead.
Top, the old one, bottom, the new one
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wasp.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wasp2.jpg)
It now has WAY less polys, and the wireframe is WAY cleaner.
I'm wondering if I'm gonna keep the brown thing or not.
-
Gotta love swooh's reliability.
-
how many times do we have to tell them to get NW accounts?
-
or Geo****ties at least.
-
**** happens
-
Yea, it's down for me, too.
In my system, the CPU controlls very little, except, say, when the pilot says "DAMPEN!" which activates an automatic sequence designed to kill all inertia.
Again, all three have seperate advantages and disadvantages.
-
yeay! swooh is back on business.
Btw, ultimately, I have dropped the brown thing, and the two roundish hole things too. And I've changed the shape of the fuselage a bit, and I believe if I posted a pic, all that would be much more visible :p
I've also tried the Black Wraith, looks darn cool in fact, so I tried the red cockpit again and, surprise, with a black hull, it looks way cooler ( tho the thing is now quite evil-looking ).
-
Meh, I say keep it brown... but post the black one, maybe that'll look better. Venom, that's some really good work man. :nod:
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell20.jpg)
The ship is black, but I put a yellow light, that's with it has a brownish tone.
-
The stealth fighters are being lit up by searchlights. :D
-
no, there running away from a supernova ;)
-
No, they're just flying with the sun in their back :p
-
woopy! I'm done with the countless jet morph targets, so now I can make scenes like that ( I mean the thrusters ) in a couple seconds :):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell21.jpg)
on this pic, for exemple, the ship is slowing down ( or maybe flying backward ) while strafing left and up :)
All that with ONE single object and three sliders :)
I love morphers :D
-
The latest WIP from sci-fi meshes.. Cool to see the Wraith's Manuevering Thrusters in action! Wonder who is more agile. A B5 Starfury/Thunderbolt or Nico's Wraith fighter?
-
Schweet.
-
Venom's Wraith is more agile, of course.
-
http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithspin.avi
just for fun.
It's a mpeg4 file (1,194 kb)
As for the starfury, well, my verniers seems bigger, and I've never seen a Starfury strafe ( flying sideways thanks to momentum, yeah, but not initiating a strafe ), so... Guess mine is more agile.
-
why the hell wont these things play, it wont download the codec or anything :(
the ship looks beutiful though venom :nod:
-
Cool.
Sigh....wish I could model. Bloody uni. :(
-
cute.
:)
-
Originally posted by Nico
http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithspin.avi
just for fun.
It's a mpeg4 file (1,194 kb)
As for the starfury, well, my verniers seems bigger, and I've never seen a Starfury strafe ( flying sideways thanks to momentum, yeah, but not initiating a strafe ), so... Guess mine is more agile.
I would have liked seeing an example of the morph targets in use more than a simple pan around, but I have to admit it looks good.
-
Originally posted by Nico
woopy! I'm done with the countless jet morph targets, so now I can make scenes like that ( I mean the thrusters ) in a couple seconds :):
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell21.jpg)
on this pic, for exemple, the ship is slowing down ( or maybe flying backward ) while strafing left and up :)
All that with ONE single object and three sliders :)
I love morphers :D
Ah, now that is indeed impressive. :yes:
-
Originally posted by Nico
No, they're just flying with the sun in their back :p
No,
They just found out that their enemy could see them through their camo.
:p
-
ok not read the whole thread so apoligise if i'm steeping on other peoples toes here but with reguard to the control inputs there are afew areas of concern
2 joysticks sounds like a ncie easy way to go but have you ever tried using 2 joysticks at the same time - basically your natural instict if to replicate your right hand movements with your heft hand movements
thats where the whole patting your head and rubbing your stomach things comes from therefore its easier to have a simple off hand control liek say a throttle which you simply hjamming forwards or back
however that off hand can be used for button control anyone who plays fps should know this as well moving your mouse around doesn't affect your button pusing prowess there for it would make more sence to have the rudder pedals as there normal fuction of controaling yaw the main joystick controls pitch and bank throttle is your off hand all as in normal aricraft
now you strafting controls i would probally either use a off hand buttons or more likely a hatch switch control on teh main joystick
using the hatch swithc for strafing would then leave your off hand buttons controls for weapons selection
jsut my 2 cents though
-
I disagree with you, KillMeNow. Having played Decent2 as well as games like VirtuaOn and a few other games that used twinned sticks, I can say that using two sticks to control a craft is not only easy, but damned near natural. Two sticks and a fully functional rudder pedals with toe-stops will give you full rotation on all axes, as well as vectored thrust in the three axial directions. The drawback, of course, is that you cannot thrust and turn seperately (a consequence of using the same thrust vectors for attitude and thrust) unless you're using an intelligent fly-by-wire system.
-
the problem with it that it works in degrees you can memoriuse certain postions than produce certain results but fine tweaking controls alther levels of thrust etc on the fly and while it could be done its not so quick i think your do one action then the next instead of both at the same time
however you look at it unless you are a high level ambidextrous your off hand has a mimic tendancy wwhen moving both at the same time which in some circumstances could prove a vital few seconds time to overrule in which time you get killed
at least i dont think so
where as the way i suggest leaves the basic flight controls with what has been established and worked out over 100 years and after being in devolpment fora 100 years i think its pretty refined
and from playing video games i know you can easily coordinate you thumb action to strafing movements while stille being fully natural with the main control stick
ideally though you could have a neural interface controls not as outlandish as it seems i've seen experiemtns where people ahve flown basic flight sims with thought control now its hard work and very unreliable right now but in the future i wouldn't be surprised to see it at least if pilots aren't removed from planes altogether that is seems curent trend is to create unmmaned combat aircraft
-
I guarantee that I am not a high level ambidextrous person, KMN. You're comparing seperate complex motions (one arm performing a task while the other performs another task) to a complex upper body motion (limbs working in concert). Obviously the human body can do the latter: we do it all the time with our legs. We do it often when typing, playing instruments, etc.
You mention modern flight controls, without realising what that really entails. In a modern F16, the pilot deals with (just on the stick and throttle) SEVEN axis directions, plus five different four way hats, a two position trigger, six different buttons. You're going to tell me that they can't handle a pair of sticks? There's a mini-stick on the throttle that is operated by the left thumb. There's an directional antenna knob, a range knob, a radio switch, airbrakes, dogfighting multi positions switch, and the throttle itself ALL on the left hand. I just cannot buy into this idea that people are functionally useless with their left hands.
-
Especially if they're left handed. :p
Although you try finding a left handed joystick in this day and age.... by the time you get bloody thing, you're used to doing it the other way round. Using a mouse is even worse!
Bah.
-
Saitek Cyborg is your friend.
-
Ooo, ya, best joystick around.
Good for righties and lefties :D
-
typying etc is a finger control and finger dont seem to suffer the same problems but moving your hands well thats where problems start as i said its do able but not exactly intuative
now your legs well you cant really compare its not a complex motion
using 2 joysticks i think would work best if you switch over to a more basic system of control like a tank rather than controling your heading and bank you would control the thursters more directly
both forward to go striaght foawrd both back and you go back - both to the same side you roll both in strafe up or somethign to that effect then for you mvoes both joystick get equal input for the vast majority of controls however i dont think this would be great system for a fighter anyway
no iu'd defaintly just go with standard flight controls with an added hatch switch its the simplest and most reliable solution
as for all teh buttons on the throttle yeah all good stuff weapons controls thats where i would put them
as for your 7 axis control dont be absurd -at most a joystick can only control 3 axis's pitch bank and yaw and thats asume you put yaw on the stick byt adding a twist fuction which i think a mistake in teh extremewould make it diffcult to condinate you banking and apply yaw at the same time or pitch for that matter
anyway even assume you have that thats 3 axis control where the hell are you gonna get another 4 axis's from that joystick without having to reprogram it for the next axis and forgetting about the normal ones - nope cant work
and to top it off planes only have your 3 controls bank pitch and yaw so ther would seem little point in ahve controls for anything else
as for hatch switch i have no idea how many are of the f16 but 5 seems abit exsesive msot fighters have 2 and in part because of that i suggested usinga hatch switch as the strafing controls since its proven you can use a hatch swithc easily while control the aircrafts normal flight controls
-
Originally posted by KillMeNow
now your legs well you cant really compare its not a complex motion
You've obviously never tried to build a walker out of legos or the like. walking and running are very complex motions. Far more than you might think. That's why Sony's walking/dancing/ running robots are such marvels.
as for your 7 axis control dont be absurd -at most a joystick can only control 3 axis's pitch bank and yaw and thats asume you put yaw on the stick byt adding a twist fuction which i think a mistake in teh extremewould make it diffcult to condinate you banking and apply yaw at the same time or pitch for that matter
I'm not being absurd. In an F16 cockpit there are no less than TEN axes. Between the stick and throttle there are SEVEN. I will list all the stick and throttle axes. Keep in mind this is not guess work, this is the facts of piloting a real fighter jet.
1. Joystick X
2. Joystick Y
3. Throttle
4. Antenna Knob
5. Range Knob
6. Microstick/Ministick X
7. Microstick/Ministick Y
Additionally, in the F16, on the rudders there are three axes.
1. Rudder
2. Left Toestop
3. Right Toestop
anyway even assume you have that thats 3 axis control where the hell are you gonna get another 4 axis's from that joystick without having to reprogram it for the next axis and forgetting about the normal ones - nope cant work
See above.
as for hatch switch i have no idea how many are of the f16 but 5 seems abit exsesive msot fighters have 2 and in part because of that i suggested usinga hatch switch as the strafing controls since its proven you can use a hatch swithc easily while control the aircrafts normal flight controls
See, you might think its excessive but a quick trip to any website that shows the cockpit of an F16 will reveal four hats on the stick and one on the throttle.
Now, let me explain this a little more clearly: I'm not marvel. I work all of the controls listed above ROUTINELY when playing any space or flight combat sim. It is just like playing an instrument, driving or typing. Its easy with minimal effort.
-
Originally posted by Flaser
Saitek Cyborg is your friend.
I have one now.... 'cept i'm used to a right handed one after 8 years or so with a wingman (no gameport, so had to dump it).
Thing is that 's a lot lighter - there's less tenstion, it's not as heavy at the base as I'd like and the trigger doesn;t have as much give as I'd like.
Force feedback kicks arse, though :)
-
ok first up the stick has 2 axis's the others are switchs - i wouldn't even classify the throttle as an control axis and teh rudders certaly aren't althoguh the do controla movement axis the controsl are jstu pedals
as you say the antenas etc they are nobs basically switches and buttons - not axis's
as for any micro stick they aren't for controling the palens movement i bet they will be for some sort of control of the stores or comincatiosn or somethign - the flight controls are
pitch and bank - the main control colum
yaw - the rudder pedals
Power - the throttle
now i dont knwo if i had a game set up with 2 proper joysticks one for 3d strafing one for pitch and bank it might work i guess would ahve to test it though as i'm still no convinced and as for the yaw action thats should efaintly be pedals
now with 2 ahdns onn sticks where you gonna put the throtlle your asking well if you got to have 22 sticks i would put it on the pedals too but somewhat differnt impemnntation
in planes today you have toe brakes - basically push down with your toes not your feet and it applys the wheel breaks but this same system could be used for turning and deceleration in space with thruster commands
adm,itly it takes a little while tog et used to sterring with your feet =) my first time taxiing a plane was quite bad but you do get used to it pretty quick so that hands deceleration acceration i would go for a normal pushing down on teh pedals just like yaw really when you push down one it burns on one side to produce yaw so if you push down on both you get thrust on both sides and get acceration break one side and acceration the other side and you got a fast on the spot spin on your yaw axis
i recently saw a car that used a siumilar system had the break and accerator on teh same pedal pushing down noramlly was acceration push down slightly differnetly and you got a breaking action - nor sure if it wa s toe break like planes or not though
anyway however i arrange the controls i wouldn't mess the the basics taht are in plaens today they work well somethign i can attest to i can fly a plane nothign big mind you or powerful jsut a little single engine pa 28 warrior but the control worked nicely as they are why mess with what you know and love?
-
Wow, can this thread be any more derailed from Nico's art?
Nico, great work.
-
Originally posted by KillMeNow
ok first up the stick has 2 axis's the others are switchs - i wouldn't even classify the throttle as an control axis and teh rudders certaly aren't althoguh the do controla movement axis the controsl are jstu pedals
Pedals produce an analog feedback curve. That makes them an axis. Toe stops produce an analog feedback curve. That makes them an axis. Rotary controls produce an analog feedback curve. That makes them an axis. Stick and throttle deflection produce an analog feedback curve. That makes them an axis. The microstick produces an analog feedback curve. That makes it an axis.
No matter how you cut it, that's ten axes and that's ten analog feedback curves to deal with. You're not spinning the rotaries all the time, but you are working three axes with your feet, two with your right hand, and three with your left. Quit underestimating the human ability to learn new skills and adapt. It can, and is, done.
as for any micro stick they aren't for controling the palens movement i bet they will be for some sort of control of the stores or comincatiosn or somethign - the flight controls are
The microstick functions as a mouse, which is--surprise--X and Y axes.
-
Just to interject here: the micro sticks control weaponry, such as target locking, cycling, selecting, that sort of stuff ;)
-
your being absurd - analog feed back curves my ass while they may technically rotate around an axis that doesn't make them an axis control - there is a very big difference - although in the case of the pedals they are also an axis control but at its most basic level all you worry about while flying is that left foot yaws lef right foot yaws right
as for the throttle thats acually a linear analog input next you'll be telling me its moving along an axis though at which point you need to step back and take your hands away from teh 3d package its a vector in teh real world lol
your micro stick is effectively an analog hatch switch and i have freely acknowlodged the use of hatch switches is quite natural for what ever reason similarly we can type on a keyboards but striangly i bet it would be more difficult to ytpe trying to hit 2 keys at the same time rather than one after the other
so in your average plane you have 3 axis controls only 2 of which are using multi axis control input device ( joystick ) the other the rudders are single axis witha linear prgoression ie the reationaship between oen pedal and the otehr is linear
by linear i am meaning one is up the other is down etc and when one is at neutral the other is netral and its a linear graph between them
throttle is a linear analoge input slider even if the acual handle rotates around around axis the basic idea is one end of the slider you have full throttle the other end you have idle the goign up and round can be an incedental axis if you really want ones thats there but you dont acknologe
as for the micro stick i bet its not offen used while in teh middle of intracate mauverses something you use in calm moments to set things up etc
so remove all teh weaposn **** etc and what you got throttle ( not an axis) rudders control an axis but not an controled through an axis unless they are on a direct pivot and wire system not many planes are these days and your main 2 axis control joy stick or control collum
everything else in a modern fighter is to do with weapons ful etc management not controling teh aircrafts flight
so for you 7 or 10 axis control system pah last time i checked the world exisited in a 3 dimesional world ( not including time ) so when we aquire 4 more physical dimesions or if your feeling particlarily ambious 7 more i'll look you up on how to contrucka control system for my latest aircraft designs
-
KMN, just cause YOU can't use 2 joysticks, doesn't mean everyone else can't :p
-
i'm not saying i cant use them or that noone can - i jsut think it would be more ackward that using one
-
To you. To most other people it's quite easy and natural. Think about it: it's almost like a helicopter control stick and cyclic (throttle). You don't try to duplicate your movements on the cyclic with your movements on the stick, do you?
-
Mike, give up, it's just I asked KMN to make a ship or two for me, and he isn't happy with the fact I didn't like the rotating thruster things on it :D ( it looks cool, I had that before too on my Havoc, but they make little sense ).
Oh, and I can use two sticks at the same time, for the simple reason I don't think about how I should move my hands, but how the ship would move. The brains just follow and the hands behacve just fine, coz it's a natural feeling process.
And I thought that thread would disappear in the depths of the forum coz I was away :p
Mike, I'll make an avi showing the morphers in action for you, coz I'm a nice guy ( or maybe I won't, coz I'm a lazy guy :p ).
-
Because you request it, Venom, I'll give up (even though KMN is dead wrong ;)).
I'm interested to see how those morphers work in action. I don't know if you realize it, but the morph layout you described is exactly the way Iwar2 handles animation channels for thrusters and stuff. I think I might be able to set up what you described in lightwave using control nulls, but I'm not sure how yet.
-
Well, I have a couple japanese DVD describing morph targets in LW, so I could get a quick look at it, but if you know how to create facial expressions for a character, well, you'll know how to make those, coz it's the exact same.
I still can't realise I got such a good idea, for once...
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/fotf.jpg)
A Grizzli ( ex Sabre, and I can't translate to russian since all translators give me a cyrillic translation :doubt: ) acts as a decoy for a gray Delta as a Wraith slips behing it, unnoticed, to give the killing blow.
oh, also:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/OuterSpaceLogo.jpg)
The OuterSpace logo. I went for an old school design coz:
1) I like those
2) the new, glowy titles are overused these days.
3) plain white ones are boring :p
-
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell22.jpg)
The bump map for the top of the ship is almost done... Darn, if I could work on it during the week, it would be done already and I could start the next ship... it feels like my project won't be completed this year :p
ah, and I was fed up with the helmet hovering above the seat, so I put my marine in there :p
-
Y'know, that reminds me a LOT of a Blackbird spy place. In a good way, may i add.
-
Thanks :)
Could an admin rename this thread to "OuterSpace dev thread"?
Ok, I'll write down some background stuff, for people who are interested to know more about the OuterSpace universe:
OS is set in an alternative world. Basically, it splits from real world around 1920, but what is changed between 1920 and 1999 is not known from commoners, so basically up till 1999, the world is the same for normal people. I'm using a lot of facts that could happen, and have made them already happen: the Big One ( the infamous Frisco giant hearthquake , for exemple). The world has gone though various planet scale catastrophes during the 1999->2004 period, inducing major economical, political and technological changes. All that is complicated and tedious, so I'll spare you with the details. One of the reasons is that it makes things simpler for me.
Fact1: the first alien species we ( humans ) meet are the Gray. They show up around 1920, but public is not aware of it. They're involved in WW2, they initiate the nazi party, and help them during the war with technolical advances ( carefully chosen tech, tho ). They don't play a big part for reasons I won't disclose here, but basically, their efforts are wasted because of bigger matters that leads them to leave matters on Earth. The aim was to weaken Earth ( for various reasons, even with WW2 tech, Earth would be difficult to overcome ). It worked more or less, but they are not able to take advantage of the situation.
Starting from 1980, the grays come back to Earth, abducting people ( they need them for one single reason I won't disclose, but it's nothing biggy to know ). They're constantly repelled thanks to the Black Shield operation conducted by all the major industrial countries. The Black Shield Operation organisation is disolved in the 90's when the Grays disappears again.
Mars is colonized around 2040, and becomes independant in 2054 after a small war resulting from facts you needn't know for now ( :p ).
The Vodian show up in 2071, after they leave their home system wasted by the Mycoids. The Grays, in the same situation, follows and harass them. first contact went very wrong, resulting in a very short war ( less than a couple weeks ). Vodians and Humans ally to get rid of the Grays as fast as possible because the Mycoids are due to come soon, and the Humans refuses to leave Sol as the Vodians suggested. The Vodians decide to stand with the Humans, considering the conbined forces could stop the invasion swarm.
What follows is not for you to know yet :p
-
why do the humans refuse to leave sol? humans tend to be colonisers... don't they?
what sort of aliens are the aliens? like, humans are carbon-based lifeforms... so these are...? and they sound waaaaaaay more advanced than humans... hm... where're they from?
the purple glowing in the grizzly-delta-wraith pic is pretty. :)
-
Humans like to keep their stuff. You know, the classical scifi deal "no other species fight like humans when they're on the verge of exctinction" thinguy. Besides, I don't think it would be technocally possible, anyway: by that time, they don't have such a large fleet that they could save more than 1/100 of all mankind, they don't have FTL stuff ( the Vodians would give them theirs, but adapting them to terran ships, building them, etc, would be too long ). And they don't want Earth and Mars to be destroyed, that's their only inhabited planets ( since they never left Sol anyway ).
The aliens are all carbon-based. The grays are way more advanced than the Vodians and Terrans. The Vodians are at the same technological level, but they followed a different evolution, they were already a space faring species by then ( but didn't have FTL stuff either ). A vodian ship looks more hightech than a terran ship, but in fact it is at the same level, it just works differently. For exemple, Vodians don't know powder, and Grays never considered it would be useful to them ( they know about it, tho, coz they've seen it on Earth ). Vodians don't use metal either, btw, they use some kind of resin they take from the trees hat grow on their planet. The grays use some odd plastic. Both the grays and Vodians use energy weapons and shields, which makes them more balanced against each other. Shields can't be adapted on Terran ships because they're made with metal.
shields are very effective against energy based weapons, but absolutely useless against projectiles that will simply go through them. Ammo based weapons are also more efficent against Vodians and Gray ships, coz they break the resin/plastic, creating large hull breaches, with big hull chunks flying away. Energy weapons, on the other hand, melt metal like there's no tommorrow, so Terran ships are quite fragile to them. The grays use antigrav tech, while the Vodians use grav tech ( works the other way around, one pushes, the other one pulls ). The Vodian grav wells have some drawbacks, for exemple they generates massive amounts of heat.
The Mycoids don't really use technology, but they can learn from it and understand it. They just need the concepts, then they grow symbiots or stuff that will achieve the same result as a machine. Sometime they hijack stuff, tho.
-
hey, all that tech stuff sounds cool...
i just had a weird image reading about the energy shields... if humans tried to integrate them into their metal ships, what would happen? 'energy' sounds like they're using electromagnetism. If the ship hulls were somehow magnetised without melting them... well, what would that do? maybe by superconduction (superconductivity is cool!) which would be less difficult to achieve in space than planetside... though expensive as hell, probably...
the mycoids sound like they have it the easiest. just grow your weapons and things.
-
If you put a shield on a terran ship, it will just... hmm, hard to describe... it will run everywhere in the ship, imagine a huge battery, if you could visualize electricity, well, if you plugged it on a metalic object, it would scatter everywhere. Yeah, voila, it works the same as electricity, basically. Would be very bad for computers and stuff, too, obviously :p
And yeah, the mycoids have it the easiest, that's why they're the most dangerous of the lot ;) ( disregarding the fact they're also outnumbering everybody by 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000 - exagering, of course, but not that much :p )
-
haha, yeah alright...
what are the mycoids? what are they like?
-
Good storyline, venom. Despite my best efforts, I can't spot any holes :D
Thumbs up! :yes: ;)
-
They're mushrooms :p
In fact, they've evolved so much there's a lot of different "species". Most of them are pretty dumb, in fact, because of the wild evolution thinguy. They're not very original concept-wise I gotta admit, imagine zergs or things like that, but I like the idea of space monsters. There's a lot of different forms, insects, spiders, squids, etc, so I've set up an handful of distinctive features that shows they all come from the same origin ( 6 limbs, two of them being much larger, 6 eyes, etc ). There's a pic of a drone somewhere in this thread, hmm... there you go:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/dronegrass.jpg)
You can guess, this one is of the dumb kind ( :p ). It's a kind of ground warrior, and tanks are better against those :p ( oh, yeah, I have tanks, too, of course, there, Reaper tank:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/reaper4.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/reaperink1.jpg) )
This one is about the size of the tank, some are as big as a capship, some a bit bigger than a human.
-
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Good storyline, venom. Despite my best efforts, I can't spot any holes :D
Thumbs up! :yes: ;)
Thanks :)
For the record, I've been working on:
-Outerspace: I can find concept pics and storyline elements from 1992 ( ouch... the thing as changed an awful lot since then )
-Veil of Darkness: Same deal, stuff back to 92 ( I suspect I could find older stuff for both universes )
-Oleon Wars: 2000 ( that's the most recent of the lot, but I'm sure I started at least one year or two before 2000 actually, just can't find older stuff ).
-
??? how does a mushroom evolve into something that looks like a giant praying mantis?
-
Go wonder :p
But hey, they're ALIEN mushrooms, those things are Teh w31rd :D
-
How about they were simply the evolved forms of indigionous species on the planets, harnessed for war? Or they were all genetic monstrosities, spit out by one giant "Creature factory," and are each inserted with a chemical determining what type of warrior they'll be?
-
sure, its no weirder than random fishes and things turning into humans, hey? ;)
-
Hey, you know, most (if not all) creatures on Earth look the same during pregnancy for about...what, 2 weeks? A month? Something like that.
-
Well, they sure are evolved forms of indigenous species from a planet :p. oh, you wanna know how far I can go into useless details? There you go:
Mycoids homeworld ( beware, it's weird, as I said :p ):
Uriah Secondus:
-Giant gazeous planet
-Dead core, diameter 30000 Km in diameter
-Gazeous sphere: 120000 Km in diameter
-61 oceans ( to date, they seem to often merge and split )in suspension, trapped in the gaz layer. Gravity and a high revolution speed keeps them mid-air, taking the shape of gigantic drop-shaped water lenses.
- average temperature on sun side: +-50°C
- biomass: important ( mycoids and local vegetals/animals )
Uriah Secondus is the second planet of the Uriah 12 system
Uriah 12 ( star ):
Red giant
Uriah 12 ( system )
3 planets, 21 satelites, very heavy asteroid presence
Located in the External ( Perseus, North on galactic plane ) Arm of our galaxy.
Uriah Prime:
-Rock planet
-diameter: 31000 km
-Biomass: none
-average temperature: 800°C
Uriah Secondus:
-See first entry
Uriah Ters:
-Rocky planet
-Diameter: 17000Km
-Biomass: none
-Average temperature: -120°C
I have no data on atmosphere, coz I have no knowlegde in that.
-
what, like little wormy things with limbs? and big bulgy alien-like eyes?
(personally i don't think that really proves anything... why should an animal personally relive evolution during the pre-natal period? there's no reason for it.)
edit: in reply to ut's post
-
and nico... those useless facts aren't interesting. :p
-
Bleh :p
That's why they're useless :D
Anyway, for the mushroom thing, well, they started as mushrooms with some sort of brains, and they evolved, that's it :p
Don't look too much into details :D
-
okay i wont.
have you any interesting characters to follow yet, in OS i mean?
-
Yeah, a few. But I gotta confess it's all in my head, I never wrote anything down about them :p
-
so is the story going to be set in that last war you were talking about, between the humans and- oh, i forget the names. grays. and the ones beginning with v.
-
Main story follows a family, it starts with the Mars independancy war and goes way after what I posted.
There's also a few side stories that have nothing to do with that family, or even with spaceships and stuff. Most of the work there is to have a convincing background where I can place any kind of story I want with a futuristic feeling to it.
-
Venom, a hint about characters; stay away from the steriotype ;) It can kill a good story to have dull and uninteresting characters :)
EDIT: Kool! A family story! Lol, that's good :)
But PLEASE don't have the son be angry at the father for some sibling death that the son thinks the dad's responsible for :D SO overused, haha :D
-
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Venom, a hint about characters; stay away from the steriotype ;) It can kill a good story to have dull and uninteresting characters :)
Don't worry about that ;)
One of the main reasons why I haven't written anything about them is mainly coz they keep evolving ( even the names change from times to times ), so there's little point in writting anything for now ( hell, for now... it's been like that for years :p )
-
but it can be funny to have stereotypes stumbling around....
or effective to have stereotypes that turn out to be real people...
starting off with stereotypes is fine, i think; people need to know where you're starting. it's more confusing to launch straight into reality.
-
I edited my post, look above ;)
-
no, have a daughter instead. :D edit- instead of a son, that is
-
Originally posted by Unknown Target
But PLEASE don't have the son be angry at the father for some sibling death that the son thinks the dad's responsible for :D SO overused, haha :D
Ok, I'll be nice:
It begins with a father ( I can hear you being frightened already, hehe :D ), his friend, and his daughter ( Meiya, a kid, 12 years old, she'll be the root for the story ). Daddy is killed at the very begining by some meany ( those who start the affair that leads to the independancy war ). That first part is centered around her father's friend. They're miners, btw, they refine asteroids for a larger martian company.
Voila.
Originally posted by icespeed
no, have a daughter instead. :D
lol, bingo :D
-
icespeed brings up a good point about steriotypes: done correctly, they can be pretty funny :D
EDIT: OH NO! Please not a revenge-cause-you-killed-my-daddy story! :D :p
-
please tell me the daughter is NOT going to get together with the father's friend.
-
UT: she's a bit young
Icespeed: he's a bit old :p
-
nah, i mean later on, when she grows up. there have been countless idiotic stories where some girl gets with a guy twice her age and the writer makes out its supposed to be a good thing. i get really irritated at those.
-
or 20 years later she finds her father's killer and hunts him down...bleh.
-
Ok, no, she doesn't go with him, and the story ends a few weeks after daddy's death.
And it's 5.10AM here, so I'm off to bed :D
-
Originally posted by Nico
Energy weapons, on the other hand, melt metal like there's no tommorrow, so Terran ships are quite fragile to them.
This is the only problem I see, Venom. Otherwise it looks good.
Energy weapon against metal will melt very, very little of the metal, and will tend to seal any holes they create. One basic property of metal is its thermal conductivity: You can pump heat into metal and it gets spread through the rest of the mass pretty quickly. All the humans would have to do is build cooling systems into the hull armor and heatsinks somewhere on the vessel.
Before anyone mentions things like modern cutting lasers and laser welders: cutting lasers work on very small focused areas on small and/or thin masses of metal, while laser welders cauterize gaps in metal.
Venom, you're far better using something that causes the solid structure of metal to de-cohere or sublimate (change from solid to gas without become liquid).
-
Plasma cutters, on the other hand, can cut through inch-thick steel like there was nothing there even in the most basic models, and in fact are better than basically anything out there for sliccing and dicing stuff. Lasers are for pussies, anyway.
-
Originally posted by mikhael
[...]
Bah, I use energy weapon as a general definitition.
Any weapon that doesn't throw a chunk of metal at you, I call it an energy weapon. Can be a plasma torch, a laser, hell, even a flamethrower.
-
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Plasma cutters, on the other hand, can cut through inch-thick steel like there was nothing there even in the most basic models, and in fact are better than basically anything out there for sliccing and dicing stuff. Lasers are for pussies, anyway.
A plasma cutter is only effective over a vanishingly small range. Anything longer and your pasma is going to condense into a cooler, less useful gas.
-
Particle Accelerators - using superconductive materials it's possible to build extremely efficient electro-magnetic coils.
Arrange them into a linear accelerator and you have a working ion canon.
Since it's too fast to do the kind of fragmentation damage solid projectiles do it won't be as effective in terms of sheer damage - however it will be maddeningly accurate and have an extreme penetration.
It will still wreak havoc on metal since when the first couple of ion pass through they charge the metal and create a temporary EM field that will trap the rest of the ions - creating a spread and fragmantation that even bullets won't achieve.
-
Hey, you just described the guns from the Independence War games. ;)
-
just a quick update:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell23.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell24.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/wraithcell25.jpg)
-
Lookin' good!
Which weapon pods are mounted this time? and why won't you let us see the belly of this thing? :D
-
Those are your standard machineguns, with just a stealth casing.
That's the standard armament for the Wraith.
As for the belly, well, there's nothing to see :p
-
:) :yes:
-
It looks like its sitting on top of solid water (not ice). hey, the nose looks really cool with the blue tips.
-
well, it's neither ice or water it's, hmm... a plane with a reflective map and a smoke procedural and, yeah, well, voila, yeah, wasn't meant to look like anything :p
"runs"
-
Yay for American stealth-space fighters! :yes:
-
I know its just a random plane, Nico... you just managed to put water ripples on it while making it look smooth. It's cool.
Put up some more designs and planes and stuff.
edit: i mean, the first plane was referring to the surface plane. the second plane was referring to the machines. (sigh for english ambiguity.)
-
Poumpoumpoum.
Been away skiing for a week. Well, actually, just went to the moutains with my parents, bro and bro's g/friend, I don't like skiing, and... ah well, whatever. Brought my laptop, but forgot to put saves of my stuff on it, so I started new things ( stuff, things, you see the trend? ). I also changed my mind for my lil pet project ( I do that often, this time decided not t waste my time on a useless space battle scene and start the begining of my story instead. " shivers at the thoughts of voice acting" ), which makes the Wraith useless. Yeah for mind-changing!
anywayyyyyyyyy:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/runabout01.jpg)
The Runabout class... erm... ship. The most common large ship you can find in space, first used during the first trips on Mars ( Bush doings? :p ) then it's been constantly improved. This one is a ore processor varient. It carries a little ship that goes mining asteroids ( large asteroids are blown up to pieces then being "rafined" ), the runabout processes the interesting stuff out of the chunks the small ship brings back.
Then you have:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/meiyakid01.jpg)
Meiya's head, at the age of 9 ( Her age at the begining )
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/meiyateen01.jpg)
Meiya's head, at the age of 16 ( no real need for that one, just felt like doing it and that's it ).
Colours don't show the same on my laptop, that's annoying :doubt:.
-
Hey, cool. Btw, when were you born, Venom? What year?
-
1981, why?
-
Nice heads! :nod::yes:
-
Originally posted by Gortef
Nice heads! :nod::yes:
Thanks. Still no ICQ for you?
-
If you're calling it quits on the wraith, I wouldn't mind whacking about with it... *gets evil idea to bake textures and kill shivans in it*
-
No? it belongs to a different timeline, but that's it. Gonna keep it for later, but I'm still gonna finish it now anyway.
-
:booty:
-
Originally posted by Nico
Thanks. Still no ICQ for you?
Nope. I've decided that when I get a job and my own place then I'll open all communication neworks to the world again. Untill then I'll keep it to the minimum.
Are you going to try to animate facial gestures with point animation?
-
with morph targets, the facial animations.
-
Originally posted by Nico
1981, why?
Your post just reminded me of something I had to change, that's all...
-
I see :p
-
:D
-
hey, glad to see you're back, hope you had a reasonably good time...
the runabout class erm ship looks like a space station, sort of. only really there's not much difference between space stations and ships, really, except ships move a bit faster.
meiya's cuter at nine.
(_purple_ hair? why _purple_? why not something more usual like... blue?)
-
Time was ok, but call be weird, but I don't like much all that winter sports stuff. So I walked instead.
For the hair, well, I like purple hair :p I'm also an anime freak, so voila. As for the logical explanantion, OS is filled with mutants: Meiya's father is "clean", but her mother was a mutant, she had various "deviant" traits, and died from lung infections because of that. Meiya inherited of the hair pigmentation oddity, and is followed for more serious problems that might arise later, but for now ( as in "at the age of 9" ), she's considered a low level mutation "sample" ( the term is kind of pejorative but mutants in OS are not really well looked upon by normal peoples ). Jervis Jaeger / Julien Jorrel ( Meiya's father's friend ) is also a mutant, but in more severe state. He suffers from hair and skin depigmentation, various health problems and is treated for skin cancer. Most mutants in OS ( 1 out of 3 children born on Earth are mutants ) suffers from various physical incapacities ( OS is not X-Men... ), but sometimes it can have more likeable results, tho nothing to drastical or anything. Almost half the mutants are sterile, for exemple. As for why there's so many mutants, well, just know that Earth in OS isn't exactly as nice as it is for us :p ( not that living on Mars is much better tho ).
-
walked? in snow? wasn't it cold and slushy?... erk.
she has quite anime-ish eyes, now that i come to think about it.
the thing about mutation is, most of them are fatal. so is there high infant mortality or what... i suppose that'd be the whole cancer thing...
are these natural mutations or do they have a degree of genetic engineering ability?
-
most of them would be fatal, but even if mutants are commonly dispised, health care applies for them too, and as genetics have improved, the treatmlents are more efficients.
Mutations are the result of various natural catastrophes, chemical factories and nuclear powerplant breached because of that, and Earth atmosphere has been saturated with bad stuff for some time. Atmosphere cleansing is being processed thanks to genetically engineered plants that absorbs and converts all that crap. A varient of that vegetation is used to terraform Mars and make its atmosphere breathable, along with a lot of machines ( long process, even by 2071, when the Vodians show up, Mars atmosphere is still not fitted for human needs.
-
there's random stuff in the ground, too, that might cause mutation.
-
Well yeah, air, food, etc. I was generalizing anyway, thing is, mutations in OS are much, much more common.
-
Nice renders Nice....umm..since I don't have time to read trough all the pages...waht's this all about?
I see coll space-fighters, some renders of a girl and soe mcha..and some background information...are you modeling this after some anime? Or something you're coocking up?
-
You're joking, right? You're lazy to read? Well I'm even more lazy to sum up. If you don't wanna read, that means you're not interested enough in the thing for me to bother.
-
Originally posted by Nico
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/os/runabout01.jpg)
you really should make a version of this one to be used in fs2;)
-
It's not that I don't want to...it's that I can't...my time on-line is very limited....
but granted...I will try to read this trough...
-
Originally posted by KARMA
you really should make a version of this one to be used in fs2;)
Mmh, of course, the pic is quite crappy, so it's not obvious, but you have to realize this mesh is over 250 000 polys :p
Trashman, read starting from about where I've posted the OuterSpace logo, a bit after that, that's when I start describing the universe and stuff.
-
Venom: You should really give him a break, threads like this are an absolute mess to read through. Coming in towards the double-digit end of things tends to mean you've either gotta read through endless lines of crap, restatements, retractions and modifications to get a couple posts' worth of information, or you've gotta ask someone to sum it up. I'd recommend you put this stuff all in one place where people can read it better anyway(i.e. a full background on your page), it seems worth keeping track of...
-
Yeah I should do that, I started to do that actually, but as you just said, OS, as it is now, and it will still be for probably an awfullylong time, is constantly stricken with restatements, retractions and modifications.
For exemple, some calculum made me decide that Meiya was better off being 9 rather than 12 ( as I anounced she was supposed to be by 2054 ) because that would make her be 26 in 2071 ( which is more convenient to me ). You can imagine the nightmare of keeping any kind of background page updated with something that keeps changing...
Anyway, if you put all the tiny details aside, the thing as a whole is not ground breaking if you take originality into account, s I can resume with:
Mankind goes to space, clonizes mars, independance war with mars, aliens arrive, war, other aliens arrive, war, etc.
And yeah, it's an original stuff, not drawn out from a manga ( tho there's obvious inspirations from many anime series, but also movies, books, hell, there's even inspiration from some of my mum's cooking tools for some designs ).
-
Don't I know what that's like.
Still, it's usually better to get it all down in one spot, helps organize the **** for yourself, too. I find heavily indexed stuff works best, sorta modular writing, so that I can just take out entire sections I'm not happy with and snap in a new one, and have it fit almost flawlessly.