Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: RandomTiger on December 06, 2003, 06:53:44 am

Title: DDS compression support poll
Post by: RandomTiger on December 06, 2003, 06:53:44 am
Now that both OGL and D3D both support compressed DDS textures I want to see how many video cards can take advantage of it. The benifits of DDS images and textures are that they take up less space on disk and more importantly in video memory. To find out if your card supports any of the 5 formats run the new version of the launcher (in my sig) and go to the DX8 section and press the 'Test DXT' button. Its probably safe to assume if your card supports a format in DX8 it will in OGL as well. OGL fs2_open supports formats 1,3 and 5, DX8 fs2_open supports all 5.

Please post your results in this poll, it would be useful if people with minimum or no support post their card details so we get an idea of the cutoff threshold.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: RandomTiger on December 06, 2003, 06:58:58 am
Aww crap, I forgot to make it multiple choice.
Could people hold off until a moderator changes it please.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Terorist on December 06, 2003, 07:02:34 am
GeForce 2 GTS: all supported.
Edit: Yup, multiple choice would help. :-)
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Stunaep on December 06, 2003, 07:40:25 am
everything is supported
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Snowden on December 06, 2003, 07:47:44 am
Everything supported (Radeon 8500)
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: vyper on December 06, 2003, 09:48:31 am
If an fx chip doesn't support them I want my money back, so go for 'em all!
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: karajorma on December 06, 2003, 09:56:43 am
All of them supported
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Taristin on December 06, 2003, 11:01:12 am
GeForce2 MX 400 PCI.  All are supported. :D
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Hellbender on December 06, 2003, 11:03:35 am
GF4 4200TI - all supported
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Fineus on December 06, 2003, 11:07:05 am
I can merge threads. I have teh power. The original thread was deleted and all old posts moved to this new one. Enjoy!
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 06, 2003, 12:30:55 pm
Gainward GF4 Ti48, all supported :cool:
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: phreak on December 06, 2003, 12:47:52 pm
uh OGL only supports 1,3,5 so i think that settles it
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: RandomTiger on December 06, 2003, 01:40:40 pm
But does it work with every gfx card?
It looks like it, but it doesnt hurt to ask.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Trivial Psychic on December 06, 2003, 01:55:16 pm
GF2 MX (pre200/400) 32MB AGP, all supported under D3D, though I didn't try under OpenGL, since I don't plan on using that mode anyway.

Later!
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: RandomTiger on December 06, 2003, 02:23:05 pm
Anyone with old cards?
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Antares on December 06, 2003, 02:43:18 pm
My Intel 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller thingy supports all five.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Flaser on December 06, 2003, 02:43:48 pm
GF2 Ti - supports it all.
I could beg my sister to test it on her TNT2 - but that'll take a while.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Lightspeed on December 06, 2003, 02:51:28 pm
All supported :)
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Drew on December 07, 2003, 01:27:29 am
64 Radeon 9k Pro: all supported :D
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: kv1at3485 on December 07, 2003, 01:31:40 am
Radeon 9600 Pro, 128 MB.  All good here.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Fry_Day on December 07, 2003, 03:59:40 am
TNT2 and voodoo 3 don't support texture compression. Every Savage card supports compression (They were the first cards with texture compression support), GeForces and Radeons all also support texture compression.

DXT 1, 3 and 5 are the useful formats. 2 and 4 are premultiplied alpha formats, which are rarely used. I suggest not supporting them, since using premultiplied alpha textures isn't worth breaking compatability with OpenGL.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MadProf on December 07, 2003, 04:15:42 am
Be careful with DXT1 on GeForce cards up to 3, dont know about above still checking.

quote from http://udn.epicgames.com/pub/Content/TextureSpecifications/


 DXT1

DXT1 is a four-bit compressed color format that allows for opaque, and one-bit alpha textures; that is, textures with no transparency at all, and textures with a single transparent color. A hardware bug in all nVidia chipsets, including the NV20 (GeForce3), potentially makes DXT1 textures gross and ugly. Specifically, decompression is performed in 16-bit color mode internally, making the resulting texture potentially unacceptable for use, especially when combined with other operations. Test your DXT1 textures on nVidia hardware before committing to their use. All other DXTC formats on nVidia hardware are okay, as textures are decompressed in 32-bit color internally.
Quote
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: RandomTiger on December 07, 2003, 09:18:13 am
I've just found a bug in D3D DXT code so best stay away from it till I've nailed it down.

Also thanks for the info guys.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Kosh on December 08, 2003, 12:41:56 am
Everything supported. Mobility Radeon 7500.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: IceFire on December 08, 2003, 07:03:51 am
Radeon 9700Pro supports them all.  No issues.  Nice new launcher too!
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 08, 2003, 03:36:57 pm
I don't know really, I have a Diamond Viper V770 Ultra. So that is TNT 2.

But I would suggest PNG format. Much easier and the best is, no data loss, not a single pixel!

[EDIT]Ok, I just found Launcher v3.3 and I tried it, sorry not a single DXT is supported :(.

I do hope to get a new card in Februari, heck a new computer as a matter of fact (another matter of fact is, I hope to be able to buy a new comp).

[/EDIT]
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Lightspeed on December 08, 2003, 03:53:33 pm
PNG doesnt have any advantage over TGA though.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: ChronoReverse on December 08, 2003, 04:09:14 pm
What about animated pngs?  Can TGA's be animated?
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Liberator on December 08, 2003, 09:30:30 pm
GF4mx 420 64mb - all supported
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: phreak on December 08, 2003, 10:55:46 pm
i wonder how hard it would be to string together some DDS images to make an animation.

edit:  i don't know if this has been mentioned, but IIRC DDS textures must have power of 2 sizes
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Liberator on December 09, 2003, 12:16:44 am
There goes that then, the Orion as well as a lot of V ships have several non-standard maps.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Bobboau on December 09, 2003, 12:20:03 am
they can be resampled, in game if need be (though that would be painfuly slow)
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Sesquipedalian on December 09, 2003, 04:51:36 am
No support here.  TNT2.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 09, 2003, 09:00:03 am
Well there is an animation brother of PNG, it has a little brother called MNG Multi-image Network Graphics.

Here is the PNG site:
http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/

And here is the MNG site:
http://www.libpng.org/pub/mng/

Please don't forget it is open source (so you can add any wisttles you want). And it is free.
Here is MNG licence: http://www.libmng.com/license.html
It also supports Alpha and transparanty.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: phreak on December 09, 2003, 09:13:58 am
i thought PNGs were hella slow to decode
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 09, 2003, 09:31:40 am
I never noticed that.

I ounce wrote a PNG2BMP converter + catalogizer (so it also viewed tumbnails of the images), it converted 100MB of PNGs (thanks to my little brother for gathering) to about 300 MB of BMPs. That in just 1 minute :). Then I got a blue screen (this was a couple of weeks later, and it had nothing to do with the PNG converter, just another program from Macrofracture (guess who I mean) in which I lost the program).
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: phreak on December 09, 2003, 09:40:26 am
odd.  its pretty slow with browsers.  PNG may be worth a shot.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 09, 2003, 09:51:27 am
Well maybe it is the plugin that is slow, or many people using the same piece of lib at the same time.
Or Microsoft hating open source things better than their own products (as if that is very hard).
Or a combination of the above named explanations.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Flipside on December 09, 2003, 11:12:34 am
Well DDS support would only be needed for models that don't already have textures, and the edges on a DDS don't have to be equal powers of 2, so 1024 x 512 textures are fine, and since a large area of Black takes up almost no space with most compressed images, I wouldn't think it a problem.

Flipside :D
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Eternal One on December 09, 2003, 01:09:14 pm
You guys really should consider PNG's. The decoding is not slow at all compared to any other format that has similar compression capabilities.

The LibPNG (http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/libpng.html) is free. It's very fast to implement using it, I did that to a project of mine in just 3 hours.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 09, 2003, 01:20:01 pm
If I recall correctly, I made my PNG2BMP prog within 1 hour. But then it is not that complex...
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Eternal One on December 09, 2003, 02:05:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by MLeoDaalder
If I recall correctly, I made my PNG2BMP prog within 1 hour. But then it is not that complex...


I had to write some custom hooks for my memory management and file I/O, so that'll probably explain it. Or because I'm not that fast of a coder, whatever ;)
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Flipside on December 09, 2003, 02:34:16 pm
Do PNG's support Alpha layers for Bump Mapping etc?
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: phreak on December 09, 2003, 02:54:37 pm
you'd use a separate normal map generated by photoshop for bumpmaps.  as for alpha, i have no clue
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: MLeoDaalder on December 09, 2003, 03:43:06 pm
You can do that or modify the code of PNGLib to do just that.

And I forgot who asked. TGA can be animated.
Here is a tutorial: http://www.bcfiles.com/file.stuff?body=TutorialsAM
Don't ask me how to do it for FS2, I didn't made the tutorial.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: RandomTiger on December 09, 2003, 07:30:26 pm
This thread is about DDS
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Omniscaper on December 13, 2003, 02:38:45 am
How can I create DDS files. Is there a photoshop plugin? I'd like to convert some of the UBER textures from my Sovereign class conversion. The pcx's on that baby go up to 4096x2048. I'd like to see if that will increase performance and speed up load times.


Many of these ship textures do not like Fred2_open. I can't even load them with out crashing it. I have to dumb down the textures just so I could make test scenarios for these conversions
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Ryx on December 13, 2003, 05:08:12 am
Quote
Originally posted by Omniscaper
How can I create DDS files. Is there a photoshop plugin? I'd like to convert some of the UBER textures from my Sovereign class conversion. The pcx's on that baby go up to 4096x2048. I'd like to see if that will increase performance and speed up load times.


Many of these ship textures do not like Fred2_open. I can't even load them with out crashing it. I have to dumb down the textures just so I could make test scenarios for these conversions


You can find the tools at nVidias website, in the developer section.
http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html should get you started.
Title: DDS Compression Support Poll (Multi Choice)
Post by: Omniscaper on December 13, 2003, 07:16:24 pm
What does Freespace do with the Alpha channel of a DDS file?
I converted all of my Sovereign textures to D3DFMT_DXT5 and I got some strange results. The model was transparent in certain parts. Not complete transparancy.

The TGA textures I converted from, that came with the Sovereign model, contained an Alpha channel which originally meant to designate the glow maps. This is the first time I converted with the alpha's intact. I was expecting Freespace to use the alphas as a glow map which would save me a lot of time. But it seems as if it used the alphas as OPACITY MAPS.

This is VERY interesting. If my suspicions are correct, Freespace can have windows or transparent areas now. Can someone confirm this?

I reconverted the TGA's to D3DFMT_DXT1 and that got rid of the alphas and all is normal procedure from there. Treated like a pcx.

Performance wise I didn't see a boost in FPS but a reduction in loading time. Then again I'm working with a Geforce4 MX.