Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Zeon on December 12, 2003, 01:14:44 am
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I have an interesting thought. What if the shivans aren't the destroyers but the ancients are the feared destroyers of old. And the whole shivan wars were the results of the shivans trying to keep the destroyers gaze from falling upon them once again.
I mean it wouldn't be a far stretch to think that the shivans struck out at everyone out of a misguided fear, if they were trying to hide from the ancients. Example: We all know the story of how the destroyers came and wiped the ancients out , but what if the shivans found the homeworld of the real destroyers and tried to wipe them out quickly. Wouldn't logic demand that the ancients start a holocaustal slaughter of the shivans? That could be why the shivans were in the nebula if they were hiding.
Well please give me your thoughts... Bosch lives and will return.
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Um... the Ancients were extinctificated. FS1 makes that pretty clear. There'd be little to be hiding from millenia later.
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Yes but what if the Ancients carried the war to shivan held space and took there worlds and now wait for someone else to leech on.
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Um... the Ancients were extinctificated.
Their fleets were destroyed. They were down to one planet, last they were heard of, and the Lucifer was coming. It'd be pretty hard to unexpectedly bounce back and destroy a near-invulnerable fleet when your last refuge is about to be given the Independence Day treatment. Especially when you were so thoroughly ineffectual before.
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you got it all wrong.. the story that we know as the ancients fate, what if it was in fact the fate of the shivans and the whole of the ancients race were the real destroyers. Say if the ancients were like locust and fed on the empires of other races.
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Um, have you EVER seen the cutscenes dude? They make it CLEAR AS DAYLIGHT that the ancients were annihilated by the Shivans, not the other way around. There's absolutely no way you can twist what the cutscenes were saying to mean the opposite thing. I don't know what kind of weed you are on, but I suggest getting off of it.
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Um, Zeon, you're trying to prove a dead point. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL that what you're saying could be possible, the cutscenes made it CLEAR that it was the ancients who were destroyed.
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The whole point of the Ancients narratives was to establish the Shivans as a destroyer of species. If the player isn't convinced almost from the outset that the Shivan's aren't out for resources, or territory but to exterminate every last remnant of civilization then you have an undeniable plotline to follow through the rest of the campaign.
So many Ancients theories have been put out there and absolutely none of them use any evidence from FreeSpace story/plot/bible information. The Ancients were destroyed, their technology was infact less advanced than the GTA and the only thing that they were really good at was subspace technology (thus the vast empire). They never developed a good countermeasure to the Shivans and they never had a chance....unlike the Terrans and Vasudans who did a couple of things differently: A) They teamed up B) They were resourceful C) The knowledge stored in Altair that the Ancients uncovered too late was not too late for the Terrans who still had the ships and the ability to strike at the Lucifer directly at its most vulnerable moment.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Their fleets were destroyed. They were down to one planet, last they were heard of, and the Lucifer was coming. It'd be pretty hard to unexpectedly bounce back and destroy a near-invulnerable fleet when your last refuge is about to be given the Independence Day treatment. Especially when you were so thoroughly ineffectual before.
Yeah. Those damned near-invulnerable fleets can't be taken down by a lone pilot in a lone fighter in a subspace corridor right before it emerges to destroy Ear--er some unknown Ancient planet. ;)
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The Ancients loved to plunder and pillage, as the first cutscene implies. They slaughtered entire species as they expanded their empire. However, there's no denying that the Shivans ****ed the Ancients in the ass big time.
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Well thanks for the feed back all but hey it was just a thought.
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or maybe (puts evil pinky to lips)... maybe everything the ancients left were all lies and biased? How many times have we, in history, fudged things up a little from the actual accounts? How many times have we made people look to be great enemies when they actually weren't? Maybe they themselves created the shivans as ultimate weapons and the shivans turned on them. So they don't look stupid, change their history records to indicate that the shivans came to them unknowingly and destroyed them... Since all the planets are destroyed, there's no real evidence to say the contrary... Only what the terrans found Hmmm...
Or I could just be talking out of my butt.
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ohh..i know who shivan's are they are space monkey's
just J/K;)
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I wonder if the Ancients as a final attempt launched a transport ship which jumped out just in time to escape the destruction of their planet? They could be somewhere else, hiding in some unknown galaxy, well at least unknown to the othre races out there. They were to busy escaping that they did not have enough time to make one final log.
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Well you can essentially make up whatever you want to say that the monologues aren't what they seem, but the only thing the general populace will beleive is what they see. The facts. Which, As far as we know, is what the monologues are.
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Hehe, the anchinets were history...
a more believable idea is that the Anchinets tried to genocied the Shivans but the Shivans fought back and kicked some serious Anchient ass....
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But the monologues said the Shivans came out of nowhere.
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The monologues hint at the fact that the Ancients tried to enslave or kill the shivans like they had so many other races but they failed miserably.
It does seem to suggest that the Ancients started the war with the shivans not the other way round.
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The ancients were like the Europeans of old spanning the void of space, adding system after system to their empire.
I can just see it now, the ancients touch down and do this on a beach on some far flung planet observed by some Shivans in the Jungle treeline. Planting the flag in the sand the ancient recites "I claim this land in name of Spain!" LOL
The shivans come out of the jungle, with shoulder cannons blazing (which communicates as , "Not on my watch white man!")
Thus you have an oppressed people (the shivans), striking back at an invading force (the ancients). Unfortunately instead of the peace loving race they were before, after this perverbial stick in the hornets nest that the ancients started, the shivans themselves turned into explorers and conquerers...
On behalf of Terrans and Vasudans everywhere I'd like to say from the bottom of my heart, "Thanks a LOT you Ancient PRICKS!"
(Gee I better not get any emails from the AADL - The Ancient Anti-Defemation League) ;)
BTWthere could be some ancient survivors, but this sis th only way. They launched sleeper ships to colonize new worlds. They had to put teh crew in stasis cause they cannot use subspace or the Shivans will find and kill them no matter where they go. I think the Ancients said it themselves, subspace is closed to them forever... Today it is a boogey-man tale, don't use subspace or teh shavians will get you!
Maybe GTVA finds one of these sleeper ships? (KHAN!!) lol or a world in a galactic backwater world that is their only remaining planet. If they did keep their tech up and were able to research more, other propulsion systems that DIDn't use subspace would have to be explored... think of the possibilities?
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Maybe GTVA finds one of these sleeper ships? (KHAN!!) lol or a world in a galactic backwater world that is their only remaining planet. If they did keep their tech up and were able to research more, other propulsion systems that DIDn't use subspace would have to be explored... think of the possibilities?
iv been thinking the same thing.... just... different..... alot different..
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You will all leave that potential plot line well alone. Thank you.
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[glow=blue]RECIPROCITY[/b][/i][/glow]
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*agrees* :nod:
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[color=cc9900]I should try and model a sleeper ship one day. I'm guessing they're just engine and large-enclosed-area-of-empty-space™ on the front.
Could make for an interesting campaign, e.g. unchartered jump node leads to old Terran/Vasudan sleeper ship system, shivans are alerted there, rush to save everyone begins. It would need a lot of effort to carry that through though.[/color]
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Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]I should try and model a sleeper ship one day. I'm guessing they're just engine and large-enclosed-area-of-empty-space? on the front.
Could make for an interesting campaign, e.g. unchartered jump node leads to old Terran/Vasudan sleeper ship system, shivans are alerted there, rush to save everyone begins. It would need a lot of effort to carry that through though.[/color]
oh can we see the shivans activly trash a planet?
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Originally posted by J3Vr6
or maybe (puts evil pinky to lips)... maybe everything the ancients left were all lies and biased? How many times have we, in history, fudged things up a little from the actual accounts? How many times have we made people look to be great enemies when they actually weren't? Maybe they themselves created the shivans as ultimate weapons and the shivans turned on them. So they don't look stupid, change their history records to indicate that the shivans came to them unknowingly and destroyed them... Since all the planets are destroyed, there's no real evidence to say the contrary... Only what the terrans found Hmmm...
Or I could just be talking out of my butt.
Biggest flaw: In FreeSpace 2 the Dr examining the Knossos device remarks that the device is definately not of Shivan origin stating that its technology is different. Probably in a fundamental way. Its unlikely that the Shivans were created by the Ancients.
The monologues were also not directly tied into what the GTA knew of the ancients but rather a message being conveyed to the player of the game. The audience knows more than the characters do...one of those Shakespear things. So while deception and trickery may well be elsewhere, its probably not here. You can take them at essential face value.
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I thought those mesages were from the find in Altair, and that the player just got them a little before the rest of the GTA
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Originally posted by IceFire
Biggest flaw: *snip*
so that means the shivans couldnt build their own subspace portal......hhmmmm
this would make for a very interesting camp...
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There are ancient survivors. (Vasudans)
They have given us every hint in the book.
BTW I would LOVE to see this so called "book":cool:
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Originally posted by Drew
so that means the shivans couldnt build their own subspace portal......hhmmmm
this would make for a very interesting camp...
I don't think it definately means that they can't. Only that they didn't build that one :D
Originally posted by jdjtcagle
There are ancient survivors. (Vasudans)
They have given us every hint in the book.
BTW I would LOVE to see this so called "book":cool:
They don't say that vasudans are the remains of the ancient race (although that does remain a possibility) To me it seems more likely that Vasudans were one of the races enslaved by the ancients.
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Originally posted by Drew
oh can we see the shivans activly trash a planet?
[color=cc9900]I somehow doubt it, in any other form than a cutscene.[/color]