Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stealth on December 15, 2003, 02:56:05 pm

Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on December 15, 2003, 02:56:05 pm
...because i sure as hell can't!  This is one of the few movies that i haven't downloaded and watched before it came out, because it DESERVES to be watched on a big screen with theater sound...

I've got tickets to teh 12:01 AM show... on Wednesday morning... which means there's 33 hours left.  and i can't wait.

;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ashrak on December 15, 2003, 02:57:43 pm
you sick people worrying about some childys (kick ass) movie when there are fun things like school and learning and exams to be done WEEE (Read: ****!)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: DragonClaw on December 15, 2003, 02:58:37 pm
This week is finals for my class. There's a girl that's seeing the FIRST showing here, at midnight. Not smart, to say the least. Wouldn't be suprised if she fails both exams that day...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Shrike on December 15, 2003, 03:03:35 pm
Nah, I can wait.  I'll wait for a less busy time to see the movie.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 15, 2003, 03:07:02 pm
I got tickets for wendesday at 12:00 am as well... Hmmmmm...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Odyssey on December 15, 2003, 03:09:01 pm
[color=cc9900]I can wait, and am choosing not to. Can't be arsed to go and watch it, to be honest. It's only a spool of pictures. More fun to go outside and take photographs on a walk or something :)[/color]
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on December 15, 2003, 03:16:12 pm
Lesee... they're showing the first 2 here Wednesday afternoon / evening, with teh 3rd showing Wed/Thur midnight. But I'm not going to that showing. ;7

Instead, this Saturday, a bunch of friends of mine are getting together, We're borrowing an LCD projector, my brother's 4.1 Logitech Z-KickASS speakers, and the extended DVDs of the first 2 movies. After that mind-blowing experience, we all are going to catch #3 in theaters that evening. :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 15, 2003, 03:17:01 pm
I'm a bit scared of going in. I liked Fellowship but was annoyed by Towers. So this one will make or break the trilogy (God I hate calling it that)

Actually, best check to see it the cinehouse is having a trilogy day...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: aldo_14 on December 15, 2003, 03:36:58 pm
Yup.  Not even seen the second one yet.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Odyssey on December 15, 2003, 03:46:46 pm
[color=cc9900]Only seen the first here too. I'm going to wait until I can pick up the whole trilogy for home viewing from a bargain bin somewhere.[/color]
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 15, 2003, 04:04:33 pm
as evidenced by the unhealthy amount of ROTK threads I've posted in the last few days, no, I can't.

Oh, and DG, as much as I disagree with you on TT being annoying, I think you'll be happy to know, that Rotten Tomatoes gives ROTK a 100% fresh rating. It's 28 reviews in, and not one of them is rotten. That includes some of the biggest TT and FOTR bashers yet.

And even if it ain't all that (even though it will be all that), it still can't beat the level of crappiness that was Matrix Revolutions.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 15, 2003, 04:15:23 pm
Here here Stu! :yes:

Matrix Revolutions was utter crap. And ROTK is getting some Über reviews. In the New York Post or something a critic just said that it can now take its place with Lawrence of Arabia, Gone with the Wind, and all the other great classics. Yep, I know I wont be dissapointed. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on December 15, 2003, 06:06:47 pm
Thursday.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: IceFire on December 15, 2003, 08:01:44 pm
I'll wait till the frenzy is a bit over and I can enjoy the movie without the hooting, hollering, and massed crowds.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 15, 2003, 08:19:14 pm
My contract with Cisco ended last friday and I'm not looking to get a job until January. Meanwhile, my wife is going to chuck a sicky and we're going on Thursday morning while most sane people are at work or in class.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on December 15, 2003, 08:21:43 pm
yeah, well i prefer to go see it the first day or two, because you're with fans, fans who share the same anticipation as you, and there's a bad side of going to see the show a few days/weeks after it comes out:  You'll be disturbed by the kids and babies that start yelling and crying during the movie, whereas the first day or two it's only going to be fans, who will keep quiet during the good parts of the movie, and only yell/cheer at acceptable parts.

i dunno, it's all part of the fun going and standing in line :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 15, 2003, 08:36:24 pm
I'll probably see it over Christmas break...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: icespeed on December 15, 2003, 09:31:28 pm
i think im going a week or two after it comes out with steak, if we ever get our acts together. he's going on a beach mission and i'll be out of sydney for christmas. it sounds majorly majorly cool. and yes, i agree, it'll be better than matrix revolutions, if only because most things would be. not that revolutions was that bad... just a bit of a let down... hopefully rotk won't be.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 15, 2003, 09:35:39 pm
I'll just grab it illegally, in direct violation of both the DMCA and it's european couterpart whose acronym escapes me at this weary hour.

I've extended the "On TV" get-out to include things which will be shown on TV in the future.

I'm now only paying to see independant films.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 04:16:31 am
Guess I'm gonna see it tomorrow, it's not like the theatre from my city is ever overcrowded ( mmh, for Titanic, it was. sadness ).
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 16, 2003, 07:37:21 am
Going to see it tonight!!! :yes: Got tickets to the midnight showing, and I can't wait. And, it has been getting awesone reviews so this is going to be one @$%^ of a ride. can't wait. *shakes himself to pieces with anticipation*:D I feel sorry for all of you who haven't expeirences these masterpieces. :thepimp:  And, inregards to TT, if you didn't like the Helm's Deep scene, you need help. Sorry to be blunt. :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: IPAndrews on December 16, 2003, 08:00:04 am
I certainly can't wait. It's getting some great early reviews. The early reviews were spot on the last two occasions and I see no reason that they should be on this occasion also.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: J3Vr6 on December 16, 2003, 08:00:11 am
Believe it or not, but I'm waiting til it comes out at Blockbuster *dives behind incoming fire*  what?!

Actually, I do that with a lot of movies now.  I rather wait til it comes out w/ spanish subtitles so me and my girl can really enjoy it.  Not for me, but for her.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 16, 2003, 08:34:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Linterluthion
And, inregards to TT, if you didn't like the Helm's Deep scene, you need help. Sorry to be blunt. :p

Meh, it was certainly impressive to watch. It was the cliff bit I object to. Having just begun Morgoth's ring, I consider myself a Tolkien UberFanBoy and thus feel I am allowed to ***** about Jackson's 'creativity'
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Triple Ace on December 16, 2003, 09:06:46 am
Yay after that there will be NO MORE LORD OF THE RINGS!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 16, 2003, 09:33:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Meh, it was certainly impressive to watch. It was the cliff bit I object to. Having just begun Morgoth's ring, I consider myself a Tolkien UberFanBoy and thus feel I am allowed to ***** about Jackson's 'creativity'


Watch the DVD EE commentary. That sums up the changes pretty neatly.

Oh, and Triple Ace, I wouldn't be cheering, if I were you. Because, seeing as pretty much the whole worlds has declared it the best film trilogy ever, you'll probably hear about it a lot still.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 09:41:38 am
And there's also the fact that jackson wants to clear the right issues so he can make The Hobbit too :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 16, 2003, 11:34:46 am
I know how it ends.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 16, 2003, 11:41:17 am
Bah. And I suppose you went in to Titanic knowing how that would end as well?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 16, 2003, 12:02:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Bah. And I suppose you went in to Titanic knowing how that would end as well?


No, in fact after reading a lot of bad things about it I decided not to bother, then rented the film after and skipped right to where the ship started to sink.

Best part was I got to see Leonardo Dicaprio die without having to see him act. Woohoo.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Fury on December 16, 2003, 01:49:17 pm
Can I wait? Sure I can, I haven't even bothered to watch the prequels in theaters.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 16, 2003, 02:33:56 pm
Er... I think you miss my point 01
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Raven2001 on December 16, 2003, 02:43:14 pm
Ticket for saturday here!!!

Sucky Chris Tolkien is an a$$... he won't let Jackson do The Silmarillion... the best of Tolkien's Books... Anyone got a sniper rifle?? :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 16, 2003, 02:45:29 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Er... I think you miss my point 01


Not at all. I got your point but unfortunately you have to deal with the tangent that it sends my brain off on.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 16, 2003, 03:14:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Linterluthion
And, inregards to TT, if you didn't like the Helm's Deep scene, you need help. Sorry to be blunt. :p
The Elves shouldn't have been there. I dare you to deny that.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 03:18:53 pm
Well, my grip is that if they added elves, they should have added dwarves as well. Makes them look like bastards who don't care, now.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: neo_hermes on December 16, 2003, 03:21:30 pm
aren't all the dwarves dead?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 03:22:52 pm
No, definitively not. Or Gimli is an undead :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 16, 2003, 03:23:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
The Elves shouldn't have been there. I dare you to deny that.


Actually, I find Jackson's response to that quite effective. He said that

a) The appendixes say that the elves did send help to Helm's Deep, only they were held off by engagements during the trip.

b) Elrond sent his sons to Aragorn in ROTK. Since that could not be done in the movies (you know, introducing two more characters to an already large cast list, etc.) somehow, he wanted the elves to get involved.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 16, 2003, 03:26:33 pm
Walks up to Triple Ace..... :mad:
*pulls out longsword, cuts head off with one swift stroke*

Now, I think that settles the matter if LOTR is good or not.  :thepimp:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 16, 2003, 03:39:40 pm
cant wait for it argghhh:)

this will be the freakiest movie since Matrix I:cool:

Cinema, i come lol:D

*runs off to the next cinema*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 16, 2003, 03:46:44 pm
I heard somewhere that a lot of the battle scenes are inspired by a Japanese director named Kurosawa.....
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 03:50:32 pm
I doubt it, Kurosawa died 3 years ago already :(
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 16, 2003, 03:51:52 pm
interesting but..........who cares:D

i'm waitin for this movie since i saw LotR I+II on DVD months ago:thepimp:

I'm sure, the battles will take my breath:D

lalala

i need to see it

help me, I'm insane
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 16, 2003, 03:53:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
I doubt it, Kurosawa died 3 years ago already :(
I meant more like Peter Jackson taking elements from Kurosawa's films.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: neo_hermes on December 16, 2003, 03:55:04 pm
*Smacks Venom*

"Get A hold of yourself Man!"

*Smacks Venom once more*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 16, 2003, 04:00:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by neo_hermes
*Smacks Venom*


You know, for some reason, I want to smack you back. Nothing personal tho, really :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 16, 2003, 04:35:37 pm
*slaps neo_hermes for beeing insane too*:D

*slaps once more*

*and once more*

:D

OK now, i'm watchin the movie Thursday at 9:30 pm

can't wait

*last slap for neo_hermes*
:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 16, 2003, 04:47:16 pm
you know, if you slapped him one more time... I wouls say that that is a little out of hand.:thepimp:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 16, 2003, 04:49:51 pm
Seeing it tommorow. Btw, I love Kurosawa films. So I'll be keeping an eye out for scenes that might have a Kurosawaness to them.

I actually only have 11 more hours to wait!!! :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 16, 2003, 05:09:34 pm
This is a LOTR thread so I am going to say this.

in response to your signature Dark 4ce,

YOU ARE NOT THE WEILDER OF NARSIL. THAT WOULD BE ARAGORN.

now I am done. :thepimp:

*btw, I am slap-proof*:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 16, 2003, 06:36:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009
I heard somewhere that a lot of the battle scenes are inspired by a Japanese director named Kurosawa.....


You realise this now means that he influenced both RotK and Star Wars (original trilogy at least)?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 17, 2003, 03:18:31 am
bah, take anything from starwars, it has japanese influence in it, that's nothing new :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on December 17, 2003, 05:10:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by icespeed
i think im going a week or two after it comes out with steak, if we ever get our acts together. he's going on a beach mission and i'll be out of sydney for christmas. it sounds majorly majorly cool. and yes, i agree, it'll be better than matrix revolutions, if only because most things would be. not that revolutions was that bad... just a bit of a let down... hopefully rotk won't be.


Yep. :) Having carefully considered the midnight Boxing Day opening, I think I'd better not... wouldn't be putting 100% into BM. Delayed gratification will be sweet, anyway. ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 17, 2003, 07:16:45 am
yup,i can't wait but i must wait until next week because i'am REALLY busy and i gonna whatch it somewhere hwere i'am that time;) :nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 17, 2003, 08:50:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by Linterluthion
YOU ARE NOT THE WEILDER OF NARSIL. THAT WOULD BE ARAGORN.

Shows what you know. He actually is the wielder of Narsil. He got it for his birthday last year and showed us all the photos of it. If you're going to shout, please get your facts right first. Thanks.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 17, 2003, 10:00:07 am
:D Yep its right there on my wall. And btw, just to counter still, Aragorn doesent wield Narsil either. He wields Anduril. Narsil reforged. :D But damn, I want those runes on my sword as well. But no worries.

Anyway.... I have seen it. (the movie that is) And it is good! :yes:

Scratch that, its bloody AWESOME!!! I mean holy ****! It was a top notch movie that bloody hell delivered everything I was hoping for! I won't say anything, except that the Witch King is the bloody coolest villain in film history! But like usual, the film has its small (very small) little problems, but they wont deduct from the viewing pleasure! EVERYONE GO WATCH IT NOW!!! I wanna discuss it!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on December 17, 2003, 10:07:10 am
went to see it at 12:01.  movie ended at 3:32, i went home, went to bed, and got up 10:00

what a movie!  amazing, incredible, call it what you like, but that movie 0wned.  DEFINATELY worthy of being the third of the trilogy.  stunning.

what else can i say.  go see it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Odyssey on December 17, 2003, 10:27:31 am
[color=cc9900]What else can I say? No.
~goes off to read a book~[/color]
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: kode on December 17, 2003, 10:39:03 am
the movie was pure seks. excellent ending of the film trilogy, albeit the ending of the movie itself could probably have been a little shorter.

and the legolas/gimli thing is still just lame.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 17, 2003, 11:29:52 am
Don't need to wait anymore: it rocked, 'nough said.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 17, 2003, 11:40:52 am
I shall endevour to view it on the morrow. Assuming I can book some tickets tonight, that is.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on December 17, 2003, 05:33:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
Don't need to wait anymore: it rocked, 'nough said.


Jiminy Jilickers... I still have close to 3 weeks to wait. Oh well, glad to know it'll be worth it. :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: icespeed on December 17, 2003, 11:36:13 pm
jiminy jilickers? you were watching 'the simpson's' last night, weren't you...

this is so cool, now we know it's not like matrix revolutions (which you guys all gave a bad review of) it's definitely to look forward to..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 18, 2003, 08:58:23 am
Seems like two and a quater hours until curtain up for me. Time for a quick several in the pub!
Title: mini review in few word's
Post by: Gloriano on December 18, 2003, 12:44:08 pm
Return of the king was awesome,very cool and rocked more than million year's
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 18, 2003, 01:59:07 pm
Matrix revolutions is the white crust that forms around your mouth when you get thirsty, compared to ROTK. Revolutions is Revultion. ROTK 0wns!!!!

Ok, I'll calm down...
Title: Just this second got back from the cinematorium
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 18, 2003, 03:19:08 pm
Well bugger me backwards and call me a batty boy. I have never experienced anything quite like that. I can sum up my reaction only with the use of a gigantic expletive:


[size=20]****[/size][/b]


All hail the infinite power of Peter Jackson!

What ever you're doing - I don't care what it is, eating, gaming, feeling up a loved one, reading this post, whatever - stop it RIGHT NOW and get thee to your local picture house on the double. Go!

As an aside, I've never had such bad bum ache in my life. It set in around the first sight of Minas Morgul, and it got worse from there. My advice - take a cushion :nod:


Spoiler:
Tell you what - when those Eagles appeared and set upon the Nazgûl... well I queitly said the name of Manwë quite without thinking :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 18, 2003, 07:20:55 pm
jeah, RotK was a big breathtaking monster Movie:)

but.....how should i say.......it was not what i expected:(

7/10 Points
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 18, 2003, 07:32:50 pm
Hey, you're Venom!


Err...anyway: Did they do something stupid like give Gimlii magic elf-wings to make the finale more dramatic?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 19, 2003, 03:22:23 am
loooooooooool

no, of course not:D

but thats a great Idea for a alternativ end:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: icespeed on December 19, 2003, 03:25:49 am
yeah, whenever i see venom i think 'nico' except 'nico's' not 'venom' anymore...

man, and here i am going to have to wait for like two weeks
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 19, 2003, 04:27:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Shows what you know. He actually is the wielder of Narsil. He got it for his birthday last year and showed us all the photos of it. If you're going to shout, please get your facts right first. Thanks.



I was thinking of ordering it myself. Alltough I have to raise the money first. But I'm not sure weather to buy a two-handed sword or Anduril!?;7


Got tickets for the show on 25th. What a Christmas this will be!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on December 19, 2003, 05:20:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Venom
loooooooooool

no, of course not:D

but thats a great Idea for a alternativ end:D


:wtf: How'd you get the exact same avatars as Nico/Venom? Methinks Styxx needs to fix the update script. :doubt:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 19, 2003, 12:34:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan



I was thinking of ordering it myself. Alltough I have to raise the money first. But I'm not sure weather to buy a two-handed sword or Anduril!?;7


Got tickets for the show on 25th. What a Christmas this will be!


I got mine from www.swordsonline.com. They search the web for other sites that sell the same sword as them and lower their prices so that they'll always be the cheapest. Pritty good. And they got such a huge collection of stuff, its just beautiful...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Venom on December 19, 2003, 01:46:59 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


:wtf: How'd you get the exact same avatars as Nico/Venom? Methinks Styxx needs to fix the update script. :doubt:


dunno:D

btw, if ya have a Prob with it....well......deal with it:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 20, 2003, 01:13:54 am
*drools* (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=fb744821a6f990668ec980f4b2e3012e&ITEM=WMNC001)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 20, 2003, 01:41:39 am
*just shakes his head*
Sorry, dont watch LOTR......
*sits and waits in hopes that someday, somewhere, somehow.....someone will make a movie based on Freespace*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 20, 2003, 02:07:10 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
*just shakes his head*
Sorry, dont watch LOTR......
*sits and waits in hopes that someday, somewhere, somehow.....someone will make a movie based on Freespace*


Same here. Same here. Hoping. Praying. Burning sacrifices.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 20, 2003, 05:29:44 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
*drools* (http://www.weaponmasters.com/index.html?ID=fb744821a6f990668ec980f4b2e3012e&ITEM=WMNC001)

Dude... they're, like... not expensive. This is bad, because my brother and I will buy a set each and fight.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ashrak on December 20, 2003, 05:31:44 am
i got tickets for premiere :D 02.01.2004 :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 20, 2003, 05:44:59 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Dude... they're, like... not expensive. This is bad, because my brother and I will buy a set each and fight.


Ooo....bloodfest...me like...see this bloodfest I will...:p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 20, 2003, 06:25:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ashrak
i got tickets for premiere :D 02.01.2004 :)


I've got tickets for the pre-release. 01.01.2004. :ha:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 20, 2003, 08:09:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep


I've got tickets for the pre-release. 01.01.2004. :ha:


Stop it, the two of you.

I watched it already. Yesterday. In Singapore. You guys are slow.:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: adwight on December 20, 2003, 08:02:42 pm
Just saw it, and I can only say one thing.  Wow.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sheepy on December 20, 2003, 08:11:34 pm
my rents went to see it today, and the ****ers didnt take me! DIE PARENTAL SCUM!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Zeronet on December 20, 2003, 08:11:49 pm
I could wait, but i'll prolly be seeing it tomorrow.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 20, 2003, 08:34:12 pm
I just returned.

By far and away the best movie of the three, and by far and away my favorite three movies of all time. I'm absolutely shocked at how good it was.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sheepy on December 20, 2003, 08:54:56 pm
did i ever tell youi hate you?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 20, 2003, 09:01:43 pm
No, you haven't. But thank you for sharing.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 20, 2003, 09:02:40 pm
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


Stop it, the two of you.

I watched it already. Yesterday. In Singapore. You guys are slow.:D


Your from singapore?
And you saw it?
Which theathor? Golden Village or...?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: adwight on December 20, 2003, 09:17:11 pm
Only movie that ever made me cry, sad ain't it???  It just made you think you were a part of it, instead of just being a movie.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 20, 2003, 10:06:23 pm
Yeah. It was visceral and somehow 'true'. You can't help but get sucked in. I don't know how better to describe it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 20, 2003, 10:10:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Singh


Your from singapore?
And you saw it?
Which theathor? Golden Village or...?


Golder Village cinema at Plaza Singapura. Great show. Liked the fighting scenes.

Are you from Singapore too?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 20, 2003, 11:06:28 pm
Yes, sort of.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on December 21, 2003, 01:10:05 am
Oh Man.. ****ing 0wnage.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 21, 2003, 02:39:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Yes, sort of.


Come one man! There is no such thing as "sort of". Either you are from Singapore or you are not!

Anyway, to the people out there, sorry. Hee:p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 21, 2003, 02:43:19 am
There is in my case ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 21, 2003, 06:17:39 am
Seen it, Loved it, Downloading it off Usenet to watch it again :)

*They'll get plenty of cash out of me when I buy the collectors edition DVD anyway!*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ashrak on December 21, 2003, 06:26:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep


I've got tickets for the pre-release. 01.01.2004. :ha:


for 110 kroons ROFLMAO
i got it for 50 :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 21, 2003, 06:44:14 am
so what.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 22, 2003, 12:36:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
There is in my case ;)


*slaps head*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 22, 2003, 03:44:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


*slaps head*


pffft...PM me if you want more of an explanation, this thread is supposed to for LOTR fans, remember ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on December 22, 2003, 04:46:26 am
Oh man... I really shouldn't be reading this thread, should I? I have some two weeks to wait. :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 23, 2003, 07:21:44 pm
Here's a short spolier then.

The heroes all survived.:p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 24, 2003, 03:01:49 am
Not all...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 24, 2003, 03:27:44 am
You mean they survived? No twists? nothing unexpected??

Darn......
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 24, 2003, 03:29:16 am
On another note, I was offered by my cousin to go see LOTR: ROTK, but I declined it. Should i have gone? Not sure if it is worth seeing, not to mention I havent seen the previous 2 stories or seen the books.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 24, 2003, 03:34:50 am
If you haven't seen the other two I wouldn't bother. You won't get the story.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Fineus on December 24, 2003, 03:53:38 am
I don't know... the synopsis isn't that hard:

1 Ring.
Bad guys want ring.
Good guys want to destroy ring - must go to bad guys home land to do this.
Assorted good vs bad wars will go down.

I'm sure you can pick up who fits where fairly promptly.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 24, 2003, 06:04:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Not sure if it is worth seeing

:wtf:

Have you not been reading this thread? Hell even mikhael liked it, and he hates everything.

Admitedly you won't get the full benefit if you don't watch the whle thing all the way through. The idea is that you're going on the journey with these guys, and just seeing the last one won't have you as attatched to the characters.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 24, 2003, 10:16:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
On another note, I was offered by my cousin to go see LOTR: ROTK, but I declined it. Should i have gone? Not sure if it is worth seeing, not to mention I havent seen the previous 2 stories or seen the books.


*ties Singh to a pole, sets it on fire and screams:" DIE HERETIC!"*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ace on December 24, 2003, 10:50:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
You mean they survived? No twists? nothing unexpected??

Darn......


Well nothing major other than:



SPOILERS UNLESS YOU'VE READ LOTR:
Sauron is Frodo's father.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on December 24, 2003, 12:13:31 pm
Then Sauron and Bilbo are brothers? :wtf: :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 24, 2003, 12:59:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Have you not been reading this thread? Hell even mikhael liked it, and he hates everything.


That this movie was made and made well and didn't suck ass is proof that God exists, that He loves us, and that He wants us to be happy.

Okay, maybe not, but its still ass kicking enough that my wife who hates sword and sorcery, hates war movies and hates over the top special effects LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

As for me, well, I was right there reciting the poems along with the characters under my breath and cheered like a banshee when the Witch King of Angmar got his comeuppance. ;)

And afterwards, I went on to explain to my wife who Manwe and Aule and Mandos and Morgoth and the rest were and why Sauron needed the ring so badly. And my wife who hates this stuff and especially hates me explaining backstory, she loved it all. She especially loved the history and the end of the time of the Elves. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 24, 2003, 06:56:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


*ties Singh to a pole, sets it on fire and screams:" DIE HERETIC!"*


One of the reasons I dont like it is because of my Bias against that entire genre. Until i adapt to it from my sci-fi addiction, I'm afriad i'll end up saying that it sucks, so :P
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 24, 2003, 07:00:00 pm
LotR is one of the few fantasy films that trancends the genre. You don't have to be a fan of fantasy to enjoy it.

Just like many people who aren't sci-fi fans like Star Wars or many non-western fans like The Magnificent Seven.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 24, 2003, 07:28:06 pm
hmmm.....really?
I'll see if i cant find one of the original movies first then......assuming I can muster up the will to go and watch this instead of writing.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 24, 2003, 09:10:52 pm
Go watch it. Its worth every buck.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 24, 2003, 09:15:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Go watch it. Its worth every buck.


Says who? I don't have money to spend on this. food, internet and sci-fi comes before LOTR :P
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Solatar on December 24, 2003, 09:19:09 pm
I went to see it on Monday. We came an hour early and bought the tickets, so they only cost us $4.75.

It was great, except at then end when they had to tie up all the loose ends. I mean, they give you like HUGE drinks. and its 3 1/3 hours long...shoulda seen my friend run out of the theatre. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 25, 2003, 12:38:30 am
I agree. The ending was wayyyyyyy too boring. Sure. You want to tie up some loose ends but at least spare us the crying and tears and goodbyes. I hate those.

If I wanted to see people crying, I'll go and watch Forrest Gump or Titanic.

And I hate Titanic.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 25, 2003, 04:37:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
I agree. The ending was wayyyyyyy too boring. Sure. You want to tie up some loose ends but at least spare us the crying and tears and goodbyes. I hate those.


Woppee!!! I love the emotional parts. If I liked LOTR for the big battles, I'd go and see Episode II.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 25, 2003, 04:43:16 am
Saw it yesterday. ****ing hell.

I'm sure there are words that can adequately describe this film but I'll be ****ed if I can think of them at the moment.

Immense does not do it justice.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 25, 2003, 05:18:21 am
So, was your review going to be good or bad?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 25, 2003, 05:39:04 am
Good. I loved it, I loved every goddamn second of it and I'm already planning to go see it again within this week. If I can get tickets.

The cavalry charge of the Rohirrim, I nearly cried with joy at how well executed it was. Beautiful film.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 25, 2003, 08:57:29 am
Yeah. When the Rohirrim rode across the Field of Pellenor, I had a big grin on my face. When they road against Oliphaunts though, I had tears on my face. It was just so ugly and futile. It punched you in the gut and made you see what they were really facing: the utter annihilation of everything good and right and free in the world, for nothing more than one being's conscienceless ambition.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on December 25, 2003, 03:16:49 pm
Just got the video game. :drevil:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 26, 2003, 06:25:18 pm
Still waiting for EA's upcoming Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth.:p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 27, 2003, 11:08:17 am
The only thing equal to the cavalry charge of the Rohirrim is the first battle scene in Braveheart. no scratch that, the cavalry scene in ROTK is better. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 27, 2003, 07:04:39 pm
Its "Rohan" and not "Rohirrim" isn't it?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 27, 2003, 07:08:04 pm
Rohirim is Rohans cavalry devision.

The battle scenes kick ass...Alltough I was a little dissapointed with the Battle of pelenor.
Great begining, but the end was disspointing. He should have stuck with the book..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 27, 2003, 07:20:33 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
As for me, well, I was right there reciting the poems along with the characters under my breath and cheered like a banshee when the Witch King of Angmar got his comeuppance. ;)

And afterwards, I went on to explain to my wife who Manwe and Aule and Mandos and Morgoth and the rest were and why Sauron needed the ring so badly. And my wife who hates this stuff and especially hates me explaining backstory, she loved it all. She especially loved the history and the end of the time of the Elves. :D


If he films Sillmarilion,Ill be the happiest man on earth!
* thinks of Feanor, Finfe, Turgon, Maedhros, Hurin, Mim, Echtellion, Ellendil, Eanrill, and loads of other charachters*

Quote
Originally posted by Singh
Says who? I don't have money to spend on this. food, internet and sci-fi comes before LOTR :P


What!?
*burns Singh again. Shoots Singh. Puts him in a rocket and shoots him to the Sun*
Now stay dead!;7

Quote
Originally posted by Ace
Sauron is Frodo's father.


SAURON: Khhhh...Frodo! I am your father!
FRODO: Noooooooooo!...Wait a sec! Aren't you too big and old to be my father?
SAURON: Well..uumm...it's ...
*Eonwe and Manwe arrive. Manwe picks up sauron and gives him a spanking*
MANWE: You've been a bad boy Sauron! Now you're going to Mandos..and without supper!"
SAURON: Noooooooooooooooooooo!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 27, 2003, 07:59:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

SAURON: Khhhh...Frodo! I am your father!
FRODO: Noooooooooo!...Wait a sec! Aren't you too big and old to be my father?
SAURON: Well..uumm...it's ...
*Eonwe and Manwe arrive. Manwe picks up sauron and gives him a spanking*
MANWE: You've been a bad boy Sauron! Now you're going to Mandos..and without supper!"
SAURON: Noooooooooooooooooooo!


You profane the great work. If it had been funny, that would be one thing, but it wasn't. You will now be sentanced to being an Orc's ***** for all eternity.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Kazan on December 27, 2003, 08:22:52 pm
they screwed up the battle of the black gate -- not enough humans there
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 27, 2003, 08:31:24 pm
I'm bored to hell: Someone explain the Morgoth thing(s) to me.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 27, 2003, 09:39:43 pm
*refuses to stay dead and decides to come back and tease the LOTR fans*

Hahaha! LOTR Isn't good! Sci-fi is the best!! FS3 WILL kick its @ss any day :P
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 27, 2003, 09:40:57 pm
/teasing

ok, so im sorely tempted to go watch after the seeing many shots. But am VERY hesitant in doing so, especially considering the fact that I've not seen the previous movies and dont know a clue of what the story is about except that its your standard good vs evil super-hero battle where sad and tragic things happen.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 27, 2003, 10:45:53 pm
Think of it as watching T3, Revolutions or Return of the Jedi.

While it's a good idea to have seen the previous ones, you'll still get most of it, just not all the little in-jokes and nuances.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 28, 2003, 12:58:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Singh
/teasing

ok, so im sorely tempted to go watch after the seeing many shots. But am VERY hesitant in doing so, especially considering the fact that I've not seen the previous movies and dont know a clue of what the story is about except that its your standard good vs evil super-hero battle where sad and tragic things happen.


Man, where were you?! On some backwater planet?!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on December 28, 2003, 02:37:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


Man, where were you?! On some backwater planet?!


Currently living in Singapore, but originally from Bangalore, India :ha: :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on December 28, 2003, 03:49:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Its "Rohan" and not "Rohirrim" isn't it?


In Hebrew, the -im suffix is the plural, so it was hard for me to not think of "Rohirrim" as "all you Rohan dudes". :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 28, 2003, 04:45:25 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


In Hebrew, the -im suffix is the plural, so it was hard for me to not think of "Rohirrim" as "all you Rohan dudes". :p


That's actually pretty much what it means. :)

IIRC Rohan is the country and Rohirrim the people. So although they are often called the Riders of Rohan, Rohirrim is also correct.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 28, 2003, 07:20:09 am
Geeks. Total ****in' geeks.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 28, 2003, 07:38:02 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma


That's actually pretty much what it means. :)

IIRC Rohan is the country and Rohirrim the people. So although they are often called the Riders of Rohan, Rohirrim is also correct.


voila. rohirrim is the people, rohan the country.
Oh, am I the only one to think Shelob was ubber cool? I would have been Sam, I would have ****ted my pants. Several times.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 28, 2003, 07:44:55 am
I'm still waiting for someone to inform me as to the nature of Morgoth and ****.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 28, 2003, 09:09:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
I'm still waiting for someone to inform me as to the nature of Morgoth and ****.


Where?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on December 28, 2003, 09:31:18 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Err...anyway: Did they do something stupid like give Gimlii magic elf-wings to make the finale more dramatic?


naaa, but they did show about 5 seconds of Gimli swinging his axe around during a battle, kind of like Neo did in Reloaded with the pole.  it was pretty neat :)

an0n:  let me know if this is what you're looking for... only the first paragraph discusses Morgoth, but the rest is pretty interesting too

Quote

Sauron: The Dark Lord, and the inheritor of Morgoth, the first Dark Lord. A Maiar (spirit) who was seduced by Morgoth, Sauron came to serve as Morgoth's prime lieutenant, and held the fortress of Angband for him during the war with the Valar. At the close of the First Age, when Morgoth was defeated in the Great Battle and cast into the Void by the Valar, Sauron fled and hid somewhere in Middle Earth. He remained hidden for a time, before slowly reestablishing his power and gathering minions to his side. By the year 1000 of the Second Age he was strong enough to establish the realm of Mordor and start building the Barad-dur. Using a fair guise and cunning words, he seduced the Elves of Eregion, led by the master-craftsman Celebrimbor, and combined their expertise with his own to create the Rings of Power. For the Elves, Celebrimbor himself crafted three Rings. Nine Rings were given to mortal Men and seven to the Dwarves, all of whom coveted the Rings for their beauty and power. To control the Rings and their users, Sauron then forged The One Ring, and let much of his power pass into it. In this way Sauron hoped to ensnare the free peoples.

The nine Rings given to Men ensnared their users, and they became the Nazgûl; the Dwarves proved indomitable, and the Rings could not control them; the Elves escaped Sauron’s trap when Celebrimbor realized the treachery and hid the Elven Rings. In this way, the Elven Rings—which had never been touched by Sauron—escaped his taint, and were never subject directly to the control of the One. With his deceptions laid bare, Sauron resorted to force, and invaded the West, destroying Eregion and overrunning much of Eriador, before being stopped by an alliance of Elves and Men from Númenor. Sauron retreated to the east to consolidate his power, but after donning the title King of Men, he aroused the anger and pride of Ar-Pharazôn, King of Númenor, who landed a great host on the shores of Middle Earth, humbled Sauron, and took him back to Númenor as a prisoner.

Cunning and deceptive, Sauron spent the next 50 years corrupting the Númenóreans, playing on their fears of mortality and converting them to the worship of Melkor (Morgoth’s true name), before finally provoking them to attempt a landing of their fleet on the forbidden shores of Aman, The Undying Lands. The Valar called on the help of Ilúvatar (God), who struck down the Númenórean fleet, sank the island beneath the waves and removed the Undying Lands from Arda (the world). Sauron’s spirit survived the destruction of Númenor, but following the cataclysm he was no longer able to assume a fair form, and was instead incarnated as a horrific being with blackened skin that burned to the touch.

Sauron returned to Middle Earth, while the survivors of Númenor established the Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor. Dwelling again in Mordor, Sauron gathered his forces, and when he was strong enough he attacked Gondor. In response, the Dúnedain of Gondor and the Elves forged The Last Alliance of Men and Elves, and defeated Sauron on the slopes of Mount Orodruin, thus bringing about the close of the Second Age. It was during this battle that Isildur cut the One Ring from Sauron’s finger, claiming it for his own. However, two years later, while wearing the ring in an attempt to escape a host of Orcs that had ambushed his party, Isildur was killed by an Orc arrow when the Ring slipped from his finger as he swam across the River Anduin. The Ring vanished into the waters, and was thought to be swept out to sea. However, it was found in the Anduin some years later by a Hobbit named Sméagol, who eventually became Gollum.

Although considerably weakened by this humiliating defeat, and by the loss of the One Ring, Sauron was not undone, and by the time of the War of the Ring he had grown strong again. Through treachery and cunning he continued his attempts to undermine the Dúnedain kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor, and the very existence of the One Ring gave him enough power to crush the West. But he remained cautious, and controlled his minions from his tower in Mordor. His central purpose: to find the One Ring.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 29, 2003, 02:36:56 am
Wow...very interesting...more please!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 29, 2003, 03:05:37 am
You can find lots of info about practically anything Tolkien in The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 29, 2003, 03:32:01 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
You can find lots of info about practically anything Tolkien in The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm)


Thanks! Thanks!:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 29, 2003, 11:11:00 am
Man, just came back from watching it again from the theater. It just gets better and better. This time I was totally feeling it, my emotions were bloody going haywire. I was in tears bloody hell. But it could be because everyone in the theater were also crying, it was just an incredible goosebump ride.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 29, 2003, 11:35:24 am
I haven't seen it yet.

Regardless, there are two scenes in The Two Towers, that always give me goosebumps, the latter one has even brought the closest I've been to tears: Theodred's Funeral and Where Is The Horse And The Rider...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 29, 2003, 11:59:09 am
Theodred's funeral... lovely piece of film. Eowyn looked so sad. Makes up for the falling of the cliff I reckons.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on December 29, 2003, 02:48:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
...Theodred's Funeral...


That part, or more specifically, the line where what's-his-face the father dude says "No parent should have to live to bury their children"..... man...! The Two Towers came out last year after a spate of (successful) terror attacks, and the thing running through my head when I saw that was "Wow - I wonder if anyone seeing this now....." :-/
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 29, 2003, 04:21:49 pm
My absolute favorite scene in TTT is the "Where is the Horse and the Rider" scene. Its beautiful. I cant explain it, but like you said its just gives me goosebumps. Though my favorite scene in ROTK has to be the lighting of the beacons. You'll understand what I mean when you see it. I was grinning like no tommorow, getting goosebumps the size of apples. I guess its the music, but man... I wish I could have seen it in IMAX... *sniff*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 29, 2003, 04:28:58 pm
Yeah, the beacons scene, that was neat :)
On the other side, I was expecting more feelings from the "the eagles are coming!" scene...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 29, 2003, 04:46:09 pm
Well, I jumped up and down in my seat when I saw them. :D But I was jumping up and down most of the time thruout the film anyway. Oh yeah, another scene that got me almost crying (and funnily enough it didnt really stir any emotion in me the first time I saw it) was the "I cant carry it for you, but I'll carry you" scene. I dunno why, but when I saw it again, the women next to me started crying and I got all choked up. Like aawww, that brave little hobbit friend.

I hope they come out with another soundtrack for ROTK though. The ones in the stores doesent even have all of the music in it. Thank god it atleast has the Beacons music, but it doesent have the charge of pellenor music or other themes. Oh well.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 29, 2003, 06:51:25 pm
The best of all three movies, a brilliant end to the epic tale.

The best scenes: Lighting of the beacons, the charge of the Rohhirim, the path of the dead.

Alltough there ar a few things that bug me, they are nothing serious and I can go over them. But I'm gonna list them here anyway:

1. Narsil/Anduril - In the book it said that it glowed like the sun and the moon (sometimes reddih/yeelow, other times bluish), while on some other parts in the book, it said it was engulfed in white flames...
It is supposed to be the uber-sword, yet that doesn't quite show..the Sting however, sparkles like a Christmas tree


2. When Sauron saw Frodo on Mt. Doom, he paniced, his existance was in danger. As soon as he paniced, all of his rmy paniced too, they lost their heart for battle, the Nazghul speeded away trying to stop Frodo. This was a clear sign of a turning point in the battle.
Yet in the movie, Saurons army seemes unafected by the panicking screams of the Nazghul and keep on fighting with the same vigor.

3. When Sauron is destroyed a black cloud, shaped like Sauron forms itslef and then gets blown away by the wind. It would have made an even more impressive ending.

4. The walls and towers of Minas Tirith are too easily destroyed. One stone brings down a whole tower...I mean, if castles were really that weak, noone would bother to build them. And in the book, they never got past the second level.

5. Legolas killing that giant elephant (can't remember it's name)..I can swallow that, but its...wel...hm....

6. No Saruman

7. No Farmir & Eowin romance

8. No explenation of what happened to the rest of the Fellowship.

9. They never truly revealed who Gandalf really was.

10. Too few men in the last battle.

11. The ghost army never fought at Pelenor - they killed all the pirates and Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Elronds son's , the slaves on the ships and a small army of his came to fight.

12. The Rohirim charging the Olifants. They should have just circled around them.

13. Gandalf was more inspireing and powerfull in the book
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 29, 2003, 09:34:36 pm
I agree with the last comment. Gandalf was a wizard right? Where are those Fireballs and Frozen Orbs?

Hee...too much Diablo. Sorry.:D

Seriously, you would expect more from a wizard!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 29, 2003, 10:13:21 pm
The trouble was that Tolkien would always talk of power and might without ever really going in to details except for describing, for example, Saruman's voice and Sauron's ability to dominate weaker wills. He rarely got in to the nitty gritty of how someone like Gandalf would actually use his power in a practical fashion, such as hurling the afore mentioned fireballs.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on December 29, 2003, 11:04:52 pm
That was another scene that got me choked up good: Faramir leading the charge on the Pellenor.  It was suicide and he knew it and he just sucked it up and sacrificed himself. That one moment made me hate Denethor more than any of the abuse he heaped on Faramir throught the rest of the tTT and RotK.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 30, 2003, 03:33:04 am
Don't worry. He was partially burnt then he threw himself over the castle walls. So, there you go. End of the idiot.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 30, 2003, 04:18:25 am
Quote
They never truly revealed who Gandalf really was.


The order of Wizards, the Maiar who came to Middle-earth after the first millennium of the Third Age. Of these, five came to the northwestern regions; Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando.




Quote
3. When Sauron is destroyed a black cloud, shaped like Sauron forms itslef and then gets blown away by the wind. It would have made an even more impressive ending.


because he  sauron is been

in wolf's form
Necromancer
etc
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 30, 2003, 04:41:56 am
Quote
Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano


 because he  sauron is been

in wolf's form
Necromancer
etc


:wtf:

uuhm... Could you elaborate? :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 30, 2003, 04:49:16 am
Wolf sauron
The name given to the dreadful wolf-shape that Sauron took when he went from Tol-in-Gaurhoth to do battle with Huan, the Hound of Valinor.


Necromancer
The evil being who dwelt at Dol Guldur in the heart of Mirkwood; originally thought by the Wise to be one of the Nazgûl, Gandalf later discovered that the Necromancer was Sauron himself.


Serpent form
Creatures of Morgoth; Sauron took the form of one during his battle with Huan.


Vampire form
Mysterious bat-like creatures in the service of Morgoth and of Sauron. The only vampire that Tolkien names is Sauron's servant Thuringwethil, but Sauron himself took the form of a vampire on at least one occasion

and more from here
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 30, 2003, 06:15:30 am
Woooddy! I have the list of the added scenes for the uncut version :D:
Lemme translate, it's in french:

***SPOIL***

scene1: Saruman VS Gandalf, Grima kills Saruman in the end

scene2: Legolas is taught by Gimli a game where you're supposed to drink as much alcool as possible and stay stand up :p

scene3: separartion between Merry and Pippin is a bit longer

scene4: Arwen and Elrond are arguing ( once more ), then Arwen falls, dying, in the arms of the father. This scene makes Aragorns dream about Arwen dying disappear.

scene5: Merry pledges allegiance to Theoden.

scene6: Gandalf finds out about Denethor's palantir ( thanks god, the complete disparition of that one really put questions on hold... )

( scene7 ): the army of the undead attack the corsairs. It's not sure if this scene will be added, but it HAS been shot and, funny thing, it features Jackson and Richard Taylor as corsairs :p

scene8: Gandalf meets and fights the liche king of Angmar. This one breaks his staff, but must leave because of the arrival of the rohirims. The battle scenes ( attack on osgiliath, minas tirith, pelennor fields ) must be significantly extended, and will most likely be more violent ( Heh, that's Peter "Braindead" Jackson we're talking about there :p )

scene9: Eomer finds Eowyn after she has slained the liche king.

scene10: eowyn and Merry are brought to the... herrrr... healing houses? ( bah, you'll get what I mean if it's not the right name ), where Aragorn heals them. Eowyn meets Faramir, and then Welcome it's love boaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! herm, sorry.

scene11: Sam and Frodo, disguised in little orcs, are "incorporated" into an orc garnison ( walk little hobbits, walk! :D )

scene12: Aragorn shows Anduril to Sauron through the Palantir

scene13: the mouth of Sauron ( played by Bruce Spence, the subway guy in Matrix reloaded ). By the sounds of it, he looks like an undead, rides some nightmarish creature, you can't see his eyes ( only his mouth, with sharp teeth ). He shows the mithril mail and the elven cape from frodo, and says that the ring has been captured and is enroute for Barad-dûr. Most likely, he'll also fight someone, probably Gandalf since Aragorn is busy with his troll

scene14: for those who didn't like the long ending, too bad for you, it'll be even longer.

That's definitive ( tho I already knew ), no scouring of the Shire.

Can I wait? No, once again, I cannot :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 30, 2003, 06:32:53 am
OMG...OMG...OMG... Thats the whole bloody book... OMG OMG OMG... So this is certain? I've seen some of those scenes in the ROTK game, just glimpses really, but oh man... Tell me this is fact and not rumor.... Please....
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 30, 2003, 06:37:04 am
Well, you see parts of some of these scenes in the game and the trailers, so...

edit: darn, I forgot: we see Gamling's death, and Eomer is crowned king of Rohan.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 30, 2003, 06:42:22 am
yeah... Good point...

*faints*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 30, 2003, 06:44:45 am
Well, I still have to point out we see parts, but not of everythig, so maybe half of it is made up.  I just translated some stuff from a movie website, I'm NOT responsible if this is proven wrong :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 30, 2003, 06:51:26 am
Quote
Return of the King Extended Edition is over four hours long?
According to The Hollywood Reporter Peter Jackson has mentioned that the Extended DVD version of "Return of the King" should run in at over four hours long. Making it at least 40 min. longer than the theatrical version.
wow over 4 hours


Ultimate Trilogy DVD version?
In an article from the Montreal Gazette costume designer Ngila Dickson may have said just a little to much. From the article: ""and I'm already hearing rumors about next year." Pressed, she will say only it's for a "vast, gigantic" future DVD release of the entire trilogy." When this will be released we do not know but a guess is late next year.
wohoo

Below we have list of what is not rumors but Lord of the Rings DVDs officially out now or coming soon:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 30, 2003, 07:01:15 am
Well, I can vouche for saying that I saw parts of Scene 5, 8, 9, 10 and scene 13 was in the game as a whole playable level. The mouth comes out and does the whole "Your hobbits are dead" thing. So it wuold make sence its been filmed. Makes sense of the whole "Eye-lighthouse" scene. Cause then sauron would know the hobbits are in his land and he's looking for them. But I've also seen as production stills of an orc attack on Loth Lorien and a bit more scenes of Frodo's journey up to Cirith Ungol. There being the statue that was defaced and such.

The only scenes in that list I'm a bit iffy about are scenes 2 and 4. But who knows. I guess we just have to wait till the end of summer to see the official list come out. :D

An über release? :hopping: No... I don't wanna buy another damn set of them that has even more scenes in them. I wanna be happy with my Extended Editions, and not think that a box set will include even more. I hate marketing...

*Starts saving money for über edition*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 30, 2003, 12:02:46 pm
You don't have to explain the detail to me HIG...I've read all three books and Sillmarilion dozens of times (and I'm reading histroy of middleearth now).

Guess what - it sez that Orcs were made from humans...


* I don't like gandalfs "ray of light" with which he attacked the Nazgul. In the book it was a true ray and he hit one with it (like with a beam cannon). The Nazghul shrieked and ran

* ANDURIL!!! I'll never get over it...

* So, they will show the palantir and Aragorns taunting...great
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Rictor on December 30, 2003, 12:25:05 pm
Woot!. Looks like the extended edition will go a long way towards restoring the parts that were cut, however brief/changed they may be.

In ROTK, when Denethor sends Faramir to be burned and he's looking out over the walls, and then he turns around and Gandalf beats him with his staff...we had people in the theatre cheering and clapping;);)

I have to admit, the Lighting of the Beacons in ROTK and Where is the Horse and the Rider in TTT are really moving. Also, I liked the suicide ride into Osgiliath and most of the Sam-Frodo parts. Very well done. I like how in the end you see them opn this tiny little island of rock in the middle of a river of lava, its seems very hopeless, but then the Eagles arrive. One thing that confused me about the Beacons scene, who were all those other people lighting the beacons? Were they soldiers who were manning the Beacons, waiting for the Minas Tirith one to be lit and then they light theirs. Were they Rangers? What were they? I don't think its specified in the book, or maybe I've just forgotten.

However, I didn't like Gandalf's fireball thing, I would have much prefered ir if he had simply shone this bright light from his staff (as is seen in one of the trailers) and chased the Nazgul away that way. As well, I didn't like the fact that Sauron's gaze is shown to be a physical beam of light. When he's searching Mordor, it looks too obvious, too much like a light house. It would have sufficed to see a close-up of the eye moving in different direction - searching.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 30, 2003, 12:35:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Guess what - it sez that Orcs were made from humans...


No, they're made from elves, and trolls from ents :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 30, 2003, 12:43:38 pm
Uruks are full Orcs of a particularly powerful and deadly kind, and originated in Mordor about five hundred years before the story begins. The film chooses to make Saruman their creator, but it isn't clear whether this is intentional departure from the book, or a simple mistake.


Orc's are not made from humans but from Elves
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 30, 2003, 12:59:14 pm
It seems that Toliken wasn't clear on that subject himself..
After all - he wrothe the Histoy of Middelearth

When you think about it, Orcs are far more like humans then elves..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 30, 2003, 01:42:58 pm
Uruks are full orcs, more true to the old Orokor bred by Morgoth. They're mostly to be found in Mordor. The common Orc in Middle-earth 'today' is often called a goblin cos it's smaller and weaker than a true Orc. The Uruk-Hai were half-Orc half-Men creatures bred by Saruman.

And I don't need to copy n' paste stuff out of the encyclopedia to tell you that. Please stop trying to lecture us, Gloriano mate.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 30, 2003, 01:45:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Uruks are full orcs, more true to the old Orokor bred by Morgoth. They're mostly to be found in Mordor. The common Orc in Middle-earth 'today' is often called a goblin cos it's smaller and weaker than a true Orc. The Uruk-Hai were half-Orc half-Men creatures bred by Saruman.

And I don't need to copy n' paste stuff out of the encyclopedia to tell you that. Please stop trying to lecture us, Gloriano mate.


Ok:)  Actualy i didn't lecture
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 30, 2003, 01:52:16 pm
Ok:) Actually you did, several times, or I wouldn't have said so.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 30, 2003, 02:51:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
Of these, five came to the northwestern regions; Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando.  


Which reminds me. What were the other 3 doing during the war of the ring? I know Radagast was unwittingly involved in Gandalf being captured by Saruman but what did he do after that?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 30, 2003, 03:02:00 pm
Radagast never really got stuck in to his job. He was more interested in talking to the birds and whatnot. The two blue wizards disappeared in to the East after landing on Middle-earth. There's an essay about it in Unfinished Tales.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 30, 2003, 09:49:37 pm
By the way, the ROTK game is kick @55 too, I mean this is one of the better games I have ever played, and I normally like FPS'
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Linterluthion on December 30, 2003, 09:55:50 pm
You know, on the subject of the orcs,  they were not neccessarily
Quote
bred by Morgoth.

but more of Melkor and his cronies, before the war between the Valinor and Melkor, read the Silmarion... good book
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Grey Wolf on December 30, 2003, 10:55:18 pm
Morgoth = Melkor.
Melkor was the name given him by the over-god (whatever his name was), Morgoth was the name that Feanor gave to Melkor.

And I disagree with the Silmarillion being a good book part. It shows why Christopher should have a court order preventing him from reading his father's notes.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 31, 2003, 06:21:38 am
one big lose in LOTR movie trilogy is it's has no TOM BOMBADIL
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 31, 2003, 07:39:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
one big lose in LOTR movie trilogy is it's has no TOM BOMBADIL


Who?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 31, 2003, 07:47:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


Who?


Quote
Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow;
Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow."  
The Fellowship of the Ring I 7,
In the House of Tom Bombadil  


 TOM BOMBADIL
 
   
   
   
 Goldberry
 
 

A mysterious and powerful being, called by the Elves Iarwain Ben-adar (Oldest and Fatherless), who dwelt in the valley of the Withywindle, east of the Shire. What kind of being he was has never been certainly discovered (see The Riddle of Tom Bombadil below), but at some stage in the past, he seems to have settled at the edge of the Old Forest, setting himself boundaries, but boundaries within which his power was extraordinary. Tom was a creature of contradictions, one moment defeating ancient forces with hardly an effort, the next capering and singing nonsensical songs.

He appeared as an old man, at least in hobbit eyes, with a wrinkled and ruddy face, bright blue eyes, and a bristling brown beard. He was said to be taller than a typical hobbit, but too short to be a Man, so he seems to have been about five feet in height. His costume consisted of a blue jacket and yellow boots, and he wore an old and battered hat, surmounted by a feather. He seems to have preferred to wear a swan-feather in his hat, but before he met Frodo and company on the banks of the Withywindle, he had acquired the feather of a Kingfisher instead. In his own house, rather than a hat, he wore a crown of autumn leaves, perhaps revealing something of the elemental powers he possessed.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on December 31, 2003, 07:55:43 am
I think it's good they left him out. Think about. A grand epic, with operatic music, grand battles, and fine emotions.

And then comes a singing dude.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on December 31, 2003, 08:11:39 am
Yeah. Tom Bombadil fits quite well in the book but he wouldn't fit in the movie at all.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 31, 2003, 09:22:51 am
Sounds like he could defeat the forces of Sauron all by himself.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on December 31, 2003, 09:40:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Sounds like he could defeat the forces of Sauron all by himself.


and thing that one ring don't have any effect to Tom.B
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on December 31, 2003, 10:56:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Sounds like he could defeat the forces of Sauron all by himself.


Maybe... But then again, I still doubt he would survive with a spear through his throat.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on December 31, 2003, 11:49:33 am
If you see it that way,  Jackson could have ender the story just by having a Valar come in and kick Saurons ass.

Or they coud have made a modern version where Frodo flies in a Jet and bombs Barad-Dur and the Orks defend it on AA guns...

BAH!
----
The point is, he followed the book where if fitted good, and diddn't where it didn't.. (most of the time at least)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on December 31, 2003, 12:44:46 pm
It is specifically stated in Fellowship that Old Tom couldn't have taken the Ring. Though it had no power over him on his on land (the Old Forest, to those allergic to reading), Sauron's lot would have destroyed Middle-earth eventually anyway, and ultimately Sauron himself would have come to the Forest to take the Ring. Tom couldn't have come to aid the war beause his power only lasted withing his borders, and he wouldn't have cared until it had begun to affect him and his trees anyway.

Watching the extended editions of Fellowship and the Towers, it seems that Tom is the only major element left out. And if you watch the extended Towers, you'll see Treebeard trot out alot of the phrases from the missing Bombadil chapters.

Seems to me that in his book, Tolkien would add the characters that he wanted sometimes for the sake of it - Tom and Treebeard were always going to be in LOTR, even from the first vague plans. When Faramir 'turned up', Tolkien had intended to drop him but found that he liked him too much. Film makers like Jackson simply can't afford to work the same way.

None of this excuses the cliff scene though, which I will hold against Jackson for the rest of my life.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on December 31, 2003, 12:45:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan

Or they coud have made a modern version where Frodo flies in a Jet and bombs Barad-Dur and the Orks defend it on AA guns...


Aaaw.. I would have loved to have seen that! :D Could have a whole sacrifice scene where Frodo's engine explodes and he has no choice but to crash into the tower, but at the last moment his RIO (Radar Intercept Officer) Sam pulls Frodo's Ejector seat and crashes the plane himself into the tower...:doubt:

Naah. I preffer the old way better. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on December 31, 2003, 05:37:09 pm
Actually, I thought of this a few days ago - a modern version of the LOTR trilogy, ala Leonardo Dicaprio's Romeo and Juliet. It would be quite interesting, at the very least. ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on December 31, 2003, 07:02:55 pm
Or abysmal ****e at the very best. Happy New Year :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on December 31, 2003, 07:22:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Actually, I thought of this a few days ago - a modern version of the LOTR trilogy, ala Leonardo Dicaprio's Romeo and Juliet. It would be quite interesting, at the very least. ;)
Oh, I'd love to see someone trying to convince Baz Luhrmann to do it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on December 31, 2003, 08:41:13 pm
Better still. Arm all the Men, Orcs and Dwarves with lightsabers and the Elves and Orc archers with blasters. Those merceneries could come in AT-STs during the Siege of Gondor. Hee:p

That would be way better than the battle of Geonosis. Hundreds of thoussands of lightsabers charging against each other with laser bolts flying everywhere. maybe even equip Minas Tilith with rocket lauchers too!:D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on December 31, 2003, 11:39:09 pm
Oooh, post-apocalyptic action film directed by Jerry Bruckheimer with Sylvester Stallone as Aragorn with an RPG! The Orcs are mutants and Sauron is some kind of sentient atomic bomb or something!


AND IT'S A MUSICAL!!!!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 01, 2004, 12:53:27 am
You guys need help.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ace on January 01, 2004, 02:20:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Oooh, post-apocalyptic action film directed by Jerry Bruckheimer with Sylvester Stallone as Aragorn with an RPG! The Orcs are mutants and Sauron is some kind of sentient atomic bomb or something!


AND IT'S A MUSICAL!!!!


Sounds like Beneath the Planet of the Apes, the Postman, and Logan's Run mixed together with a pinch of Westside Story ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 01, 2004, 02:41:29 am
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
You guys need help.


Do we?:p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Singh on January 01, 2004, 03:24:09 am
pffft.....put the bad guys with those pfft star wars weapons and give the good guys l33t Phasers and you'll see action!

Actually, I wouldnt know since I havent seen the movie just yet ;)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2004, 03:24:38 am
DG: Cliff Scene?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on January 01, 2004, 04:50:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
DG: Cliff Scene?


Aragorn going over the cliff when the Warg attacks him in TTT. I could actually swallow that bit, it's still the re-write of Faramir that bugs me, though having seen ROTK I can see how it all ties up.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 01, 2004, 08:41:15 am
Watch the EE of TTT. It pritty much explains the Faramir re-write and I agree with them. It kinda strips the power of the ring when suddenly you got a guy who is not effected by its power. The viewing public would have gone "Ok. So why doesent he just toss the ring into Mt. Doom?" So they made him human.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 09:43:39 am
The extended TT kind of justifies what Jackson did to Faramir... but he might as well have just stuck to the book.

God, me and me brother watched extended Fellowship, extended Towers and then went to the cinema to watch ROTK again... it hurt
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 01, 2004, 10:09:29 am
on a completely unrelated note, I'm off to see the Estonian ROTK premiere.

And PJ did right by rewriting Faramir.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 11:01:59 am
Explain
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2004, 01:11:21 pm
How was the Cliff part supposed to be?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 01:14:36 pm
It wasn't. There was no cliff, and no one fell off it. As a consequense, there was no crappy dream sequence, and Arda was a better place.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2004, 01:16:30 pm
So I suppose there was no long ride for him back to the battle then?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 01:20:20 pm
Don't get me started
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 01, 2004, 01:21:59 pm
Well I got the Extended Version, and my old folks were thinking of seeing ROTK today, so maybe I should watch the EE TT then..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 01, 2004, 03:16:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
God, me and me brother watched extended Fellowship, extended Towers and then went to the cinema to watch ROTK again... it hurt


Your new font color is annoying. :p

And I did that too. We got an LCD projector, good 4.1 speakers, and a nice blank wall. :D But my knees were killing me in the theater.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 01, 2004, 03:50:21 pm
Right. I'm back.

All I have to say is... wow.

Hollywood can keep throwing out crap 11 months of the year, if they top it off with a film like this.

I didn't even squeak, for the entire 3 1/2 hours.

Simply amazing.

In fact, I wouldn't have minded sitting another half hour, only to see The Voice of Saruman and the Houses of Healing.

Which brings me to my only gripe with the movie. Sean Bean, who had a 3-second cameo in ROTK got into the credits. Karl Urban, who didn't even have lines got into the credits. Cristopher Lee didn't get into the credits. Even if it'll be fixed in the EE, I'm still pissed. The man has dreamt of playing of role in a LOTR movie, and he doesn't even get into the final credits. I'd be mad too, if I were him.

As for notable moments, well, Bernard Hill steals every scene he's in. As does Sean Astin. If one of them don't get an Oscar, then there's no justice in the world.

Then again, Cabaret got the best picture of 2002, so for some reason, I wouldn't be surprised.

One more thing. Trinity's death sequence in Matrix: Revolutions lasted for about 3 minutes.  In the end of those three minutes, people were coughing, speaking, yelling even. I really wanted to cry out and yell "Die already, *****." The ending of ROTK took 10 times longer. No one moved a muscle. It was that good.

"DEATH!!!!"

DG: Dark_4ce explained it sufficently
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 04:44:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep
DG: Dark_4ce explained it sufficently

Eh? Where does he explain why Faramir had to be entirely rewritten by Jackson?
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Your new font color is annoying

Up yours, copper :ha:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 01, 2004, 04:56:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Eh? Where does he explain why Faramir had to be entirely rewritten by Jackson?


A few posts up...

Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce

Watch the EE of TTT. It pritty much explains the Faramir re-write and I agree with them. It kinda strips the power of the ring when suddenly you got a guy who is not effected by its power. The viewing public would have gone "Ok. So why doesent he just toss the ring into Mt. Doom?" So they made him human.


Not only that, they made him believable. A man desperate for the affection of his father. Someone with fears and conflicts within him. Someone you could identify with. And the flashback in the TTT:EE increases the intensity of the scenes between Faramir and Denethor, ten fold IMHO. For a movie you cant have a guy come in right in the middle of the whole saga who is totally unafected by the ring and totally "stonelike". As in no flaws, no fears. It takes away from the urgency and believability, as well as the depth of the emotional integrity and flow of the films.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 01, 2004, 07:30:42 pm
Ah ha ha, but the idea with Faramir was that he was a true Man of the West, as it were. With Denethor and Boromir, they blood of Numenor was pretty much dead, but it ran true in Faramir. So he had the perception and the will to resist the ring. That was Tolkien's point, largely.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 01, 2004, 08:36:14 pm
My brother and I counted... ROTK has 8 - EIGHT! - seperate endings. :eek:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on January 01, 2004, 09:32:20 pm
really?  I , too, counted... and i only found 3 "could-be" endings :doubt: :wtf:

If you found 8, you must've picked parts that would've left the viewer with unanswered questions
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 01, 2004, 09:40:05 pm
Like "God, when will this ever end???"

Movie only has basically everything after they got to Mount Doom, bit where they fought off Sauron's army but before you know there's a squintillion more of 'em, and maybe the bit with the bed-stabbing in Fellowship (now THAT would be a right quick resolution). Book is full of what could and probably should have been endings
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 02, 2004, 05:42:25 am
yeah, yeah, we know you don't like it. whatever.

Well, I was happy with the end, it was like in the books, and I like the way it ended in the books. I wouldn't have minded one additional half hour for the scouring of the Shire, personnally, but heh, can't have everything.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Ashrak on January 02, 2004, 07:55:39 am
watched it OWNZORZ! :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 02, 2004, 12:04:13 pm
'Oo says I didn't like it? Crap writing, depressingly awful fanboys. So? Should I be in denial about the flaws of anything I like even a little?

Losers. The lot of you.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 02, 2004, 12:31:35 pm
Aaanyway...

DG: Yeah, you're right about Faramir. But thats in the book. But it cant be portrayed in the movies as such. You can at maximum have 2-3 heroes in a movie. Any more would take away the feeling of danger. Because theres too many characters that are capable of ressisting the ring. The audience wouldn't buy it. And in the end what does the rewrite really change in the long run? Not much, except a bit of character fluff.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 02, 2004, 12:33:00 pm
And this is why no-one likes you, Stryke. If it's so awful why do you spend your time posting in a thread about it? Get a bloody hobby or something

D4: If the end result is the same, then it's just rewriting for the sake of it
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 02, 2004, 01:04:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9

Losers. The lot of you.


But... I thought you liked me!!!
You so hurt my feelings :p
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 02, 2004, 01:44:43 pm
If you thought it was that bad Stryke why did you pay to see the second two movies then? :rolleyes:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stealth on January 02, 2004, 02:13:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich

And I did that too. We got an LCD projector, good 4.1 speakers, and a nice blank wall. :D But my knees were killing me in the theater.



and wasn't it badass?  We did the same thing, except that we hooked up our own speakers to my friend's receiver... and we hooked up two 15" subwoofers too... now that was awesome.  you don't appreciate it as much until you feel your chest hurting when the Orcs are marching, and you realize it's the thunderous bass.  that's how Peter Jackson meant it to be watched :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 02, 2004, 03:17:24 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stealth



and wasn't it badass?  We did the same thing, except that we hooked up our own speakers to my friend's receiver... and we hooked up two 15" subwoofers too... now that was awesome.  you don't appreciate it as much until you feel your chest hurting when the Orcs are marching, and you realize it's the thunderous bass.  that's how Peter Jackson meant it to be watched :D


We had this (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,29955,00.asp). The problem was that there were neighbors, so we couldn't put it much past 1/3rd of the way up, esp. the bass. Ahh, well, 'twas still fun. :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 02, 2004, 03:37:01 pm
Hee hee, I like this. If I post again about the distinction between being aware of faults and hating something, how many other retards are going to post about how much I hate it? :D


And you people complain about how I treat you like idiots.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 02, 2004, 03:59:27 pm
And you say I keep using the same tricks?
Bwarf :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 02, 2004, 04:40:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hee hee, I like this. If I post again about the distinction between being aware of faults and hating something, how many other retards are going to post about how much I hate it? :D

And you people complain about how I treat you like idiots.


If you talk about how you wish the story had ended with the stabbings in the inn then it's a fair estimate to say that you didn't enjoy the movie rather than are just complaining about flaws.

You're basically claiming that the second two movies shouldn't have been made and then saying you liked them. Those are two opposing viewpoints. You can't claim someone is stupid when you yourself are making contadictory statements and then acting as if you have been the paragon of lucidity the entire time. :rolleyes:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 02, 2004, 09:03:53 pm
Oh, thanks for explaining what I'm saying for me. You know, I wasn't sure about it before, but you're right, that would have been a great idea. They all should have died pretty much immediately after stepping outside of the Shire. Would've given the whole story a great moral, would've kept the whole deal nice and short and to the point, and would've made for a really satisfying conclusion. Too bad the plot had to, you know, continue.


...


Christ, you're an imbecile.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 02, 2004, 11:18:04 pm
Sometimes I think you just plain enjoy *****ing
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 03, 2004, 03:42:39 am
Because I didn't read any of the books, I'm totally lost.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 03, 2004, 04:29:08 am
Wow, Stryke. Settle down...

DG: Ok, I might have not explained it well enough then. Just watch the EE of TTT, and watch the PJ commentary. They give a good explenation why they did it. But I understand what you mean. I personally still dont think their little adventure to Osgiliath was REALLY necessary, but I think it was just more of a way to tie the 3rd with with the 2nd. But oh well.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 03, 2004, 04:51:59 am
I got the extended Towers for Crimbo, and certainly Faramir's character seems more in tune with the original (i.e the book) given the expanded motives. Different means to more or less the same end.

I shall watch the bonus stuf at some point. He might even explain what the **** he thought he was doing with the cliff...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 05:03:50 am
He doesn't. I was wondering about that bit too. Maybe in the commentaries.

Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Christ, you're an imbecile.


The mighty Stryke reduced to petty name calling. I'm very diappointed in you. :rolleyes:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 03, 2004, 08:00:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

I shall watch the bonus stuf at some point. He might even explain what the **** he thought he was doing with the cliff...


Interestingly enough, I too can't remember it being explained. Oh well.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 09:32:31 am
I had a listen to that bit of the commentary and they explain their reasons there. They aren't that impressive though :)

I think sending over the cliff edge is probably to the only complaint people make about the 2nd film that really has some validity to it. The others can be explained away quite easily.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: magatsu1 on January 03, 2004, 10:05:43 am
I think any changes were going to make some people unhappy. You can't convert a book exactley as it is to screen in the same way you can't convert a film exactly  as it is to a game.

I didn't read the book, but I understand the final battle at Helms Deep didn't actually happen.
Imagine how crap the film would have been to the general audience if they had watched all this build up only for the big finale not to take place.

The whole cliff thing was simple. The (one of ?) hero/leader, apparantly lost, returns to lead the battle against the bad guys.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 10:07:31 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
The mighty Stryke reduced to petty name calling.
No. He was just noting your flaw(s).
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 03, 2004, 10:12:37 am
Quote
Originally posted by magatsu1

I didn't read the book, but I understand the final battle at Helms Deep didn't actually happen.


Eh.... yes it did. :wtf:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 10:20:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
No. He was just noting your flaw(s).


Who rattled your cage? :rolleyes:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: magatsu1 on January 03, 2004, 10:29:07 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep


Eh.... yes it did. :wtf:


uh, :nervous: , ignore that bit then. :nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 10:36:14 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
Who rattled your cage? :rolleyes:

For the last time; it's not a ****ing cage, straight-jacket or harness! It's a 'suspension device'.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 03, 2004, 10:57:20 am
heheh...

Anyway, the reason they did the cliff scene was to tie Arwen into the second movie somehow IIRC from the commentaries. Just to remind people that she is still around, and that them two are still an item. Though I do agree that doing this by having Aragorn take a dive was a bit of a weak point. They could have done it better. But I guess they also did it to add to the tension for the people who heavent read the books. I dunno. I personally think the scene was a bit useless. Though the Warg scene was good. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 10:58:51 am
Eh?

Cliff?

When?
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Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 11:13:41 am
The warg scene was very cool. I was a little disappointed that they didn't have the fellowship get attacked by wargs in the first film so it made up for it :D

Anon : In the second movie. Aragorn takes a dive off a cliff after a Warg with no sense of direction runs off it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 11:16:40 am
The big orc-dog things?

That's not a cliff. It's a steep hill.


Goddamn flat-land southerners.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 03, 2004, 11:17:11 am
You know, I actually know someone who didn't like the movies coz it was just an adaptation of the books and didn't take much artistic license, and asking what, then, was the point of doing the movies. What about that? :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 03, 2004, 11:46:40 am
Whoah. I got another example.
One of my buddies didn't like ROTK cause it wasn't realistic. Nor that Gandalf didn't use any magic missiles or spells and what not. Or that he didn't have some major showdown with the Witchking. And the battlescenes to him werent as intense as Helms deep. Though he loved Matrix reloaded and Revolutions, in which the final battle he thinks is far better and more sattisfying than ROTK... Hmpf, go figure... :nervous:

But to each his own I suppose. I mean, I hate Moulin Rouge, though supposedly the entire world loves it, right?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 03, 2004, 12:13:31 pm
Never seen it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 12:35:34 pm
It pwnz.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 12:42:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
The big orc-dog things?

That's not a cliff. It's a steep hill.


Goddamn flat-land southerners.


It's a cliff. I'm from Kent, a county famous for it's cliffs.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 01:01:07 pm
Yeah, and it's Daves and Franks.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 03, 2004, 01:05:26 pm
That's possibly one of the worst puns I've ever heard.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 01:11:50 pm
Why, thankyou. I do try.
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Post by: Sheepy on January 03, 2004, 01:39:54 pm
heh, an0n's a colossus ...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 03, 2004, 01:45:08 pm
*wonders what his default title would be..
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Post by: an0n on January 03, 2004, 01:49:08 pm
They've probably set it to 'Dick' just to spite you.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 03, 2004, 01:57:50 pm
Yeah, well, I guess it'd serve me right for cruising the forums without pants on.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on January 03, 2004, 06:05:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
heheh...

Anyway, the reason they did the cliff scene was to tie Arwen into the second movie somehow IIRC from the commentaries. Just to remind people that she is still around, and that them two are still an item. Though I do agree that doing this by having Aragorn take a dive was a bit of a weak point. They could have done it better. But I guess they also did it to add to the tension for the people who heavent read the books. I dunno. I personally think the scene was a bit useless. Though the Warg scene was good. :D



I never liked that scene either. But apparently, the female population likes it very much...Why? Becoause of Aragorn coming trough the door scene after that... my sister and her friends just let out a deep sigh when they saw it... Apparently that was one of the best scenes in the movie for them...
As they said "It makes you wanna hold him...."

*he should take a bath first in my oppinion*
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 03, 2004, 08:52:55 pm
Is Elgolas really that agile in the book like they show in the movies? Because he can flip onto a horse, jump up an oliphant like there was no gravity...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 03, 2004, 10:20:11 pm
Well it's pretty much assumed so. Tolkien's elves aren't exactly what you might expect... he never raised the point but he probably never imagined them with pointy ears. To him they were basically just really good looking skinny types with a truck load of ancient wisdom and what not. But they were stupidly good with bows and what not, and in the books Legolas is seen to run across a rope tied between two trees (the bit with him walking on the snow was lifted from an earlier draft of the Caradras scene).

Tolkien later noted that Legolas 'probably achieved the least of all the Fellowship'. This is a little unfair and somewhat unlikely since he was not only mates with Aragorn but the son of King Thranduil, and lords and princes in Tolkien's world tend to be good at arse kicking.

This post will now go off on a slight tangent:

The thing with elves, as I'm discovering from reading the History of Middle-earth is that their minds, or more accurately spirits (called feä) are in more or less total control of their bodies. Us mortals have a comparatively hard time interfacing with our fleshy housings. Basically elvves have a lot more control over themselves and their world then us. Which presumably leads to the likes of Legolas flipping out and killing people ALL THE TIME.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 04, 2004, 02:37:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
This post will now go off on a slight tangent:

The thing with elves, as I'm discovering from reading the History of Middle-earth is that their minds, or more accurately spirits (called feä) are in more or less total control of their bodies. Us mortals have a comparatively hard time interfacing with our fleshy housings. Basically elves have a lot more control over themselves and their world then us. Which presumably leads to the likes of Legolas flipping out and killing people ALL THE TIME.


So what you are saying that elves are more agile because their "spirits" or "fea" are more able to control their bodies than Men?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 04, 2004, 03:36:16 am
Yes. Elves are more elemental. Its an important distinction between Men and Elves.

There's this huge seperation between what Elves and Men are, and their roles in the world. They aren't even supposed to still be in Middle Earth in the time of Men. They were supposed to have left long, long ago.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 04, 2004, 05:26:39 am
'xcept for the ones in mirkwood and lothlorien, of course.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 04, 2004, 06:26:25 am
In the Two Towers, they mentioned a place where the elves had to escape to. What is this place?
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Post by: Nico on January 04, 2004, 06:38:58 am
IIrc, it's Aman, the country beyond the seas on the west, where the Eldar live. that's where Frodo goes, when he takes the ship at the end of tRotK. According to the books, Sam is taken there too when he gets older and his wife dies.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: NeoHunter on January 04, 2004, 07:57:20 am
So, its a place where you can never die?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on January 04, 2004, 09:06:30 am
WEll no...they are called the imortal lands, not becoause the lands grant immortality, but becoasue of those who live there -
Valar, Maiar and Vaynar (Elves of Light)
One can die there too, but ones that do then go in the Halls of Mandos (which are located allso in Valinor, so basicly, weather dead or alive, all elves eventually come to Valinor).

As it is written in the histroy of middel Earth, at the end, Morgoth will return from the timeless night and the Final Battle will take place. And Eonwe, Tulkas and Turin shall defeat Morgoth in a battle that will destroy allmost the whole Arda. And Feanor shall come and unite the three Sillmarills and with them rekindle the light of the Two Trees of Valinor. And the mountains shall be leveled, and their light shall go over the whole world. And The world will be young again, and the elven dead shall arise. The Dwarwes will gather under Aule and they all together shall reshape the world.
But of men, the prophecy speak not - only that the gift of mortality Eru gave them will be the envy of even the Valar themselvs...
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 04, 2004, 02:59:56 pm
Obviouslt the Valar and the Maiar are immortal, being gods and all. Elves are bit different. Their spirits are indeed indestructible within Arda (ie. the World), but their bodies can be slain by weapons or waste in grief.

Now apparently, the spirirts of slain elves go to Mandos as the Trashman said. After a period of waiting, a spirirt is given the chance to return to Earth, and if it agrees it is reborn in to the body of a child. This child is usually the kin of the dead elf, though not always. When the elf is fully grown, aged about fifty or so, the memories of its former life return.

The theory behind this is that Death is an unnatural thing for the elves and therefore shouldn't stand in the way of living, as it were. Also, marriage between elves is unbreakable within Arda, cos as long as the two spirirts last (ie. forever) the marraigeis valid. So a reborn elf is strategically put back in to the World somewhere where it will have a chance of meeting its former partner, and they can resume their jiggy.

Not all elves chose rebirth, certainly not ones who commit suicide or otherwise chose to end their material existence. And few are reborn more than once as they're generally sick of dying after the second time around.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 04, 2004, 04:20:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
'xcept for the ones in mirkwood and lothlorien, of course.


Those being the ones that didn't go back like they were supposed to and/or the ones that returned to Middle Earth even though they werne't supposed to. Pay attention. You're not keeping up.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Nico on January 04, 2004, 04:45:13 pm
Yeah, that's what I was agreeing with?
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Post by: Dark_4ce on January 04, 2004, 05:34:26 pm
Yeah, this is the usual point in LOTR conversations in which I totally get lost. :D I'm still trying to get thru Silmarillion, so perhaps after I've finished I'll figure it all out. I'm just a psychotic fan of the Book and Films...
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Post by: Levyathan on January 08, 2004, 08:55:42 pm
They got it so totally wrong. Xerxes shouldn't have died by that spear.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 09, 2004, 12:26:06 am
Um... what?
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Post by: Dark_4ce on January 09, 2004, 07:40:39 am
See what I mean?
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Post by: Levyathan on January 09, 2004, 08:33:56 am
Don't worry. By the time I posted that I was completely aware that you would have no idea about what I was talking about.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 09, 2004, 07:16:59 pm
 Um. Jolly good.
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Post by: Corsair mk. 2 on January 09, 2004, 07:55:18 pm
IT. WAS. AWESOME.

saw it around Christmas time.... A-1 Super!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 09, 2004, 07:58:23 pm
Going to try and watch all three in a row again this weekend... God I'm such a man
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Post by: Corsair mk. 2 on January 09, 2004, 09:08:09 pm
I was in Toronto over Christmas and as I'm leaving, the Customs man asks me if I was at the Lord of the Rings Convention™. I dunno, I guess I just look like the type...

He said they watched all three back to back to back too. In costume, no less. :shaking:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 10, 2004, 06:03:16 am
I saw a woman dressed as Eowyn on the premiere.

Too bad the woman looked like a horse, was 60 years old, and weighed more than a semi-truck.

Fortunately, she was followed by a babe in a nightgown. She was probably trying to costume like Arwen, but who the hell cares as long as you could see her nipples.

And it made me forget about the horse.
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Post by: an0n on January 10, 2004, 06:08:02 am
Horse is nice.

*shudders*

I got this wierd deja vu thing......which is somewhat fitting in itself, with the whole french-people-eat-horse thing.
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Post by: Su-tehp on January 10, 2004, 03:45:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I'm still trying to get thru Silmarillion, so perhaps after I've finished I'll figure it all out. I'm just a psychotic fan of the Book and Films...


I was actually psychotic enough to get the Simarillion in both book and audio book form. That way, I could read along with Martin Shaw's narration and actually have the Simiarillion make some kind of sense as I read it. I only got as far as the Ainulindale and haven't read anything since. That was maybe a year and a half ago.

Then there was the time I found a course on learning how to speak Elvish. I only got as far as the 4th lesson out of 22.

Do you think not completing things reflects poorly on my personality? :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on January 10, 2004, 06:24:19 pm
I just got an illustrated encyclopaedia on weapons and battles in LOTR. Man, it's awesome. :)
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Post by: Dark_4ce on January 10, 2004, 07:20:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp


Do you think not completing things reflects poorly on my personality? :D


Heh. I never personally think of things being quit. They're jsut put on hold. Sometimes, VERY long holds. But as a testament to my way of thinking, I might read a page or so of a book I've been reading over the past 10 years, every year, so that atleast I know that at some point before I die, I've never left something unfinished. :D

So dont worry, things are just on hold! :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 10, 2004, 10:50:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

I was actually psychotic enough to get the Simarillion in both book and audio book form. That way, I could read along with Martin Shaw's narration and actually have the Simiarillion make some kind of sense as I read it.


I've got that audiobook. Its bloody brilliant. Martin Shaw does an excellent job. If it weren't for him, wouldn't be able to pronounce Aule, let alone Ainulindule or Illuvatar. It also demonstrates that some things really should be spoken and others read. LOTR is a great read, but a bad listen. The Silmarillion is a bad read and an excellent listen.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: neo_hermes on January 10, 2004, 11:25:09 pm
Why why must this thread be risen from the darkness!!! This has Been A grumble of NH thank you for reading this!
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 11, 2004, 02:21:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

Do you think not completing things reflects poorly on my personality? :D


Actually, I was rather irked that you bought an elvish cd in the first place..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 11, 2004, 02:23:53 am
Hey, it's got practical use. Some of us have to do business with the Nerd People so they'll program for us and so on, and that's their official language.

Well, that, Klingon, and whatever the hell White Wolf-devised abomination it is that people around here keep trying to start conversations with me in. Any one will probably do.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Knight Templar on January 11, 2004, 02:25:37 am
how about wookie?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 11, 2004, 02:27:27 am
Wookie is pretty easy to pick up, true, but oddly enough there's no word for "the", which limits conversations quite a bit.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 12, 2004, 06:41:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Hey, it's got practical use. Some of us have to do business with the Nerd People so they'll program for us and so on, and that's their official language.

Well, that, Klingon, and whatever the hell White Wolf-devised abomination it is that people around here keep trying to start conversations with me in. Any one will probably do.


"White Wolf-devised abomination?" What thing devised by White Wolf, pray tell, are you referring to? Or did you say White Wolf when you meant Wizards of the Coast (which now publishes the Star Wars RPG, hence KT's reference to wookies)?

(Hell, I didn't even know White Wolf even made languages...) :wtf:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 12, 2004, 09:37:50 pm
White Wolf makes all manner of horrible things, including Vampire, Werewolf, Mummy, Faerie, Hunter, Mage, and all manner of other cheesy crappy RPGs that seem designed to let angsty goths have yet another outlet for angsty gothing.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stryke 9 on January 12, 2004, 11:10:50 pm
Alls I know is it was some sort of vampire-related wierdness, and that's all I want to know.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 13, 2004, 03:53:56 pm
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Originally posted by mikhael
White Wolf makes all manner of horrible things, including Vampire, Werewolf, Mummy, Faerie, Hunter, Mage, and all manner of other cheesy crappy RPGs that seem designed to let angsty goths have yet another outlet for angsty gothing.


Be careful what you say, Mikey, I play those games and enjoy them highly. They're not cheesy at all since they're geared way more towards a horror setting than the medieval geekiness of D&D 3rd Ed.

Tell me, Mikey, how do you know if they're crappy or not? Have you even played these games? :wtf:

Or are you one of those unclean people who hate RPGs in general? :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 04:02:50 pm
Actually, yes, I have played them, and even own a few (I'm a particular fan of the Bastet if we're talking Werewolf and Garou if we're talking Vampire). I keep them around mainly because there's some good source material.

Overall, I hate the story teller system. Its almost as bad (but not quite) as AD&D 3ed and 3.5ed. I can't seem to find any 'horror' in WhiteWolf games. They tend to be geared toward angsty, whiny, munchkin stupidity. If, however, you lift the good ideas (the various clans of Vamps and Werewolves) and put them into reasonably decent systems with a GM and players who know what 'horror' is, it can work.

White Wolf however, sucks ass.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 13, 2004, 08:28:24 pm
I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. I never had a problem with White Wolf Games (well, except maybe Changeling :shaking: ) and their anime fantasy game Exalted is quite probably the most original and intricate campaign settings I've ever seen in an RPG.

I guess it depends on what kind of Storyteller/GM you have who is running your game. If he takes the game, the campaign and his players seriously, then White Wolf games are highly enjoyable. If your GM is an ass, however, everything goes to hell in a handbasket right quick. I've been in both types of games.

And Mik, I'm a fan of the Bastet also. :) In fact, when my friend decided to run a Mage campaign, I was having problems understanding the Paradox rules in Mage and was not really interested in playing a mage character. But I remembered that some Bastet (particularly Bubasti) do sometimes associate with mages, so I asked my friend if I could play a Bubasti in his mage campaign. He reluctantly agreed, expecting the campaign to take a downturn because I had such an incongruous character.

It turned out to be one of the best decisions he ever made for that campaign. The roleplaying interplay between my Bubasti character and the rogue Void Engineer character alone justified my friend's decision to let me in. Remind me to tell you about the hotel bed-wetting AKA territory-marking incident sometime. :D
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 10:00:11 pm
I tend to stick to cyberpunk style games now or more of the hard scifi stuff, like Jovian Chronicles and the like. If I were to go back to a "modern" RPG, I'd probably play one of the secret conspiracy type games. Stuff like Bureau13 or the serious version of MIB.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 14, 2004, 03:58:23 am
Ok, you guys are scaring me. Quit it. :nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 14, 2004, 01:00:50 pm
I really liked the Beacons scene in the ROTK... :nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 14, 2004, 06:16:14 pm
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Originally posted by Su-tehp
...Remind me to tell you about the hotel bed-wetting AKA territory-marking incident sometime. :D


Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Ok, you guys are scaring me. Quit it. :nervous:


Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I really liked the Beacons scene in the ROTK... :nervous:


BWAHAHAHA! I'VE DONE IT AGAIN! I'VE SUCESFULLY HIJACKED ANOTHER THREAD!

Not that that's really hard to do... I mean, it's actually really easy, so my triumphant glee isn't really appropriate...why are you all looking at me like that? :nervous:

...Um, truth to tell, I did like the beacon scene in ROTK also... :nervous:

But I liked seeing the Eagles fight the Nazgul dragon riders better. :D

(EDIT: Cool, 4 "nervous" smilies in a row! As you can see, I'm really easily impressed. :D)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Sandwich on January 15, 2004, 03:41:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
(EDIT: Cool, 4 "nervous" smilies in a row! As you can see, I'm really easily impressed. :D)


:wtf: And two of them are yours..... :wtf:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on January 15, 2004, 05:15:56 am
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Originally posted by Dark_4ce
I really liked the Beacons scene in the ROTK... :nervous:



I liked that Scene too:nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 15, 2004, 09:07:52 am
Um... I'll hold the cliff bit against Jackson till I die :nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 15, 2004, 08:21:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Um... I'll hold the cliff bit against Jackson till I die :nervous:


What "cliff bit" are you referring to, DG?

(And why is everyone using "nervous" smilies all of a sudden? :nervous: :wtf: :D )
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 15, 2004, 10:21:10 pm
Cliff bit. Aragorn tumbling over a cliff and dreaming about the fate of Arwen if she stays in Middle Earth. It served as a pretty groovy vehicle for including a very important scene from the appendices in the movie. But everyone completely ignores that.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 16, 2004, 10:58:13 am
Up yours, copper

:nervous:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Su-tehp on January 16, 2004, 12:29:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Cliff bit. Aragorn tumbling over a cliff and dreaming about the fate of Arwen if she stays in Middle Earth. It served as a pretty groovy vehicle for including a very important scene from the appendices in the movie. But everyone completely ignores that.


Which scene in the Appendices are you referring to? (I might want to reference it once I get a copy of The Lord of the Rings book.)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on January 16, 2004, 12:41:27 pm
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Originally posted by Su-tehp


Which scene in the Appendices are you referring to? (I might want to reference it once I get a copy of The Lord of the Rings book.)


Most probably "Of Aragorn and Arwen".

Also, I just read The Silmarillion again and I started thinking. Do you think Sauron at the height of his power was anywhere near as powerful as Morgoth at the height of his?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 16, 2004, 12:47:02 pm
Not even slightly, is your answer

Morgoth was a Vala. Sauron was a maia. You're comparing the power of a god and an angel, basically.

Also, Sauron put a large chunk of his power in to the Ruling Ring in order to control the Three, Seven and the Nine. Morgoth however put his power directly in to his armies and demons and whatnot, and in to his marring of Arda. Morgoth's 'Ring' was the Earth and all his creatures in it. Thus Morgoth's power, though infinitely greater, was far more spread out and diluted than that of Sauron :nod:

Not to mention the fact that Sauron is still working for Morgoth in the War of the ring. Though banished from the world, Morgoth's will still influences his servants :nod:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on January 16, 2004, 04:04:03 pm
That's where you're wrong!

Bacicly, Eru = God, Valar = Archangels, Maiar = Half-Angles...or something

But yes, Morgoth was far more powerfull - he had armies of Barlogs and Dragons (thousands!)... not to mention enough orcs to fill the whole valley of Anfauglith!!
------------------------------------------
What I don't like in the movie is the fact that Gandalf seems weaker. He was more powerfull in the book.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 16, 2004, 04:59:41 pm
Are you going to argue semantics, Trashman? DGs interpretation is pretty much accurate, especially from the point of view of the Men and Elves and Dwarves. They considered the Valar gods and only the Elves even knew of Illuvatar in a personal way.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on January 16, 2004, 07:19:15 pm
Morgoth really intrigues me - it seems to me, from my limited knowledge, that Sauron was just playing around compared to the armies Morgoth had bearing down on Arda. Where are the accounts of his conquest and the defence of the Elves or Numenoreans or whoever stood up against him? The Silmarillion?
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 16, 2004, 08:05:16 pm
Indeed. Its all in the Silmarillion. Morgoth makes Sauron look like Tom Bombadil. A large chunk of the SIlmarillion is concerned with the Valar dealing with Morgoth's plots.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on January 16, 2004, 08:17:24 pm
Sweeeet. :) I have plenty of Tolkien to catch up on, but I have to learn how to drive, so I lack the reading time I used to have when sitting idly in the car between places. :o
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on January 17, 2004, 04:47:43 am
Well what I was thinking was that, whilst Morgoth had the Balrogs and Dragons, Sauron had a lot of control over a lot of the men of the East and the Haradrim (who were formerly Numenoreans) and more so than Morgoth seemed to, which to me would seem like quite a powerful force. Saurons mistake was binding the most part of his power and will to the ring which was eventually his downfall.

Also, I couldn't get to grips with how Beleriand was part of Middle Earth until the third time I read through the Silmarillion and realised that the mountains on the far right of the map are actually the same mountains that are at the very left of the map in LOTR. I like the idea that the battle between the Valar and Morgoth was that big it literally destroyed a huge part of Middle Earth.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on January 17, 2004, 07:18:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Not even slightly, is your answer

Morgoth was a Vala. Sauron was a maia. You're comparing the power of a god and an angel, basically.

Also, Sauron put a large chunk of his power in to the Ruling Ring in order to control the Three, Seven and the Nine. Morgoth however put his power directly in to his armies and demons and whatnot, and in to his marring of Arda. Morgoth's 'Ring' was the Earth and all his creatures in it. Thus Morgoth's power, though infinitely greater, was far more spread out and diluted than that of Sauron :nod:

Not to mention the fact that Sauron is still working for Morgoth in the War of the ring. Though banished from the world, Morgoth's will still influences his servants :nod:


sounds right:nod:


Quote
he had armies of Barlogs and Dragons (thousands!)...



Actually there were 7 Balrogs servants of Morgoth and they are The Balrogs originated as Maiar, beings of the same kind as Sauron himself
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 07:49:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Bacicly, Eru = God, Valar = Archangels, Maiar = Half-Angles...or something

I was speaking from the perspective of the World. The Valar are the Powers of Arda. To you and me, they're gods. Of course Eru is the guy that is worshipped as God today (or so it is implied). The Maiar are the people of the Valar, spirits sometimes sent to Earth to help out - such as Gandalf and Saruman. Thus it's best to think of them as angels :)

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What I don't like in the movie is the fact that Gandalf seems weaker. He was more powerfull in the book.

Well what do you want exactly? He drove away the winged Nazgul, he beat up that Balrog good and proper. The whole point of Gandalf was being a leader and counsellor. He wasn't allowed to oppose Sauron directly, presumably becuase such a battle would be devestating for Middle-earth and the Valar didn't wan't to set up another tyrant lord. The Valar have never achieved any good by forcing Men or Elves down a certain path (Men even less so), so Gandalf had to help Men find the courage and strength to fight off the Shadow.
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Originally posted by 01010
... men of the East and the Haradrim (who were formerly Numenoreans)

Um... no? The Dunedain, the Men of Gondor and the Rangers of the northern line were the last remenants of Numenor. The Easterlings and Haradrim have always been in the east and south (where as the Edain of old, the ancestors of the Dunedain, came north and west)
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and more so than Morgoth seemed to

Dunno where you heard that. Mortgoth had huge armies of Easterlings. And half the Men fighting for Fingon turned on the Elves (we suck)
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Also, I couldn't get to grips with how Beleriand was part of Middle Earth until the third time I read through the Silmarillion and realised that the mountains on the far right of the map are actually the same mountains that are at the very left of the map in LOTR.

The Ered Luin, the blue Mountians. Yeah, tis a right head **** at first, that one :nod:
Quote
Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
Actually there were 7 Balrogs servants of Morgoth and they are The Balrogs originated as Maiar, beings of the same kind as Sauron himself

Seven, eh? Where'd you get that number from? As for the Balrogs being Maiar, it's more accurate to call them beings of the same order but of lesser might than Sauron. As Maiar went, Sauron was pretty hard :nod:
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on January 17, 2004, 08:07:45 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

Seven, eh? Where'd you get that number from? As for the Balrogs being Maiar, it's more accurate to call them beings of the same order but of lesser might than Sauron. As Maiar went, Sauron was pretty hard :nod:




Diffrent Sources and think about it they are powerfull only Gandalf was really powerfull to destroy one Balrog
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 08:12:29 am
Well yes, certainly Gandalf was just about the only guy on our side who could have taken the Balrog on.

Back in the First Age, of course, Balrogs were being slain left and right. We must presume that either Elves were harder back then (they were, but not that much), Balrogs were weaker (possibly though why should they have gotton stronger?) or the one in Moria was particularly hard example :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Gloriano on January 17, 2004, 09:03:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well yes, certainly Gandalf was just about the only guy on our side who could have taken the Balrog on.

Back in the First Age, of course, Balrogs were being slain left and right. We must presume that either Elves were harder back then (they were, but not that much), Balrogs were weaker (possibly though why should they have gotton stronger?) or the one in Moria was particularly hard example :)


Actually sounds good:)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: mikhael on January 17, 2004, 01:35:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer

As for the Balrogs being Maiar, it's more accurate to call them beings of the same order but of lesser might than Sauron. As Maiar went, Sauron was pretty hard :nod:

Balrogs are stated as being Maiar spirit of Fire in the Silmarillion pretty explicitly I think. Sauron was also a Maiar spirit of Fire, but he wasn't a Balrog. At least that's the way I remember it.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 01:46:19 pm
Something like that. Sauron is described as being the chief of the spirits who served Morgoth. He was originally one of Aule's boys, so he was a bit handy with making things. Hence he ended up as a sorcerer.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: 01010 on January 17, 2004, 02:26:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by diamondgeezer




Um... no? The Dunedain, the Men of Gondor and the Rangers of the northern line were the last remenants of Numenor. The Easterlings and Haradrim have always been in the east and south (where as the Edain of old, the ancestors of the Dunedain, came north and west)

Dunno where you heard that. Mortgoth had huge armies of Easterlings. And half the Men fighting for Fingon turned on the Elves (we suck)


I explicitly remember reading that some of the men fighting for Sauron were Dark Numenoreans who had settled at Umbar and further down the coast and weren't caught in the sinking of Numenor but I can't remember where I read it, I'll try to get a page number if I can. It's something I only just noticed to be honest and it's not a big deal that's made of it but I should imagine fighting fallen men of the west would be a lot harder than fighting normal humans. :)

As for Morgoth, it's my opinion that he was more powerful than Sauron, for obvious reasons (Valar > Maiar) but I do think that Sauron ascended a lot in power with the creation of the one ring, especially as he was unchecked for a lot longer than Morgoth ever was. As far as I can recall though, Morgoth didn't really use men in the same way Sauron did because he didn't really pay heed to them. That's the impression that I get anyway.

I love the depth in the Tolkien universe.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 02:37:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by 01010
I explicitly remember reading that some of the men fighting for Sauron were Dark Numenoreans who had settled at Umbar and further down the coast and weren't caught in the sinking of Numenor
[/b]
Oh, well, yes, I'll give you that one :) Some exiled Numenoreans set themselves up as tyrant kings in Middle-earth, as the kings of Numenor used to do in the days of Sur
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As far as I can recall though, Morgoth didn't really use men in the same way Sauron did because he didn't really pay heed to them.

Morgoth was terrified of Men. Alone of the Valar Morgoth knew fear. He was also contemptuous of them, believing them to be weaker then Elves and thus of little use to him. Kind of a contradictory attitude, but that reflects hiw ****ed up perspective on the world :)
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: TrashMan on January 17, 2004, 03:34:10 pm
A few facts:

1. Elves were more powerfull in the beginning, or should I say, those born and those who lived in Valinor are more powerfull than those born in Middle-Earth. We know that some elves came to live in Valinor at the very beggining and never left (except to fight Morgoth with the Valar). They were mostly blue-haired elves
and were called the Elves of Light.


2. Morgoth had lots of Barlogs. Sez so in the book. Many of them were allso killed by some of the more powerfull elves of those times (read: kick-ass powerfull), like Echtellion vs. Gothmog (lord of Barlogs)

3. In the book, Gandalf never fought the withc-king of Agmar (lord of Nazghul). And he didn't break his staff.

4. Sauron was Aules Maiar, before he was seduced by Morgoth. He became far more powerfull in his service.
Gandalf (Olorin) is allso a Maiar, but I can't recall whos' (I think Varda's...not sure..)
Eonwe was Manwes Maiar, and the most powerfull of all Maiars
Barlogs are allso Maiars

5. Yes, there were some decendants of Numenor (Dark Numenorans) who were evil, alltough their blood was far from pure..
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: karajorma on January 17, 2004, 05:01:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
5. Yes, there were some decendants of Numenor (Dark Numenorans) who were evil, alltough their blood was far from pure..


The mouth of Sauron is one. I'm suprised no one remembered him.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 06:40:41 pm
Trashman mate, you're shotting pretty wildly there and mostly missing the target
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 23, 2004, 03:52:36 pm
Right. I watched the Director's and Screenwriter's commentary on TTT tonight, so I'll comment on what they said on the changes.

On Éomer and Erkenbrand - Not really an issue, pretty logical. Having Erkenbrand rescue the rohirrim in Helm's Deep would have added another character, and been an unnecessary Deus Ex Machina, not to mention making Éomer a pretty much redundant character.

On The Cliff Scene - Firstly, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens make some jokes, then blame everything on Peter Jackson. PJ sais that because no chief character died in TTT, the story wasn't in a low-point enough for him. He wanted to create a feeling of desperation in later scenes, and making everyone think that Aragorn was dead was the way to do it. Also, he wanted Aragorn to witness the march of the Uruks and make him a more involved character, as so far in the film he had been pretty passive. The fall also served for Aragorn as a decision making moment - whether he actually wanted to continue  defending the Rohirrim and accept his fate, or just... well, die. And lastly, if he hadn't fallen, it would have made the Warg Attack scene redundant. Which is a pretty pathetic explanation by itself, considering that the Warg Attack was never in the book and was something that PJ himself wanted to do.

On Faramir - It's been mentioned here before, PJ said that having Faramir reject the ring would have made him a terribly 2-dimensional character, as well as reduce the effect of the ring, as suddenly this guy comes, who the ring has no effect on, while for the rest 1 1/2 movies everyone's been yapping about how the ring corrupts everyone.

On Elves in Helm's Deep - PJ considers it just a cool thing to do, to increase the anticipation even, plus the other movies have established this kind of connection between elves and men (i.e. The Last Alliance), which he wanted to pay off. Also he sais that he wanted to do the part in which Elrond sends his sons to help Aragorn, but couldn't, for obvious reasons. So instead he had Elrond send Haldir.

On Entmoot - Basically, if the Ents had decided to go war in Entmoot, Merry and Pippin would have been basically luggage to be carried around in the first two films. But PJ wanted to have them make a difference, and expand their character arcs (Pippin's especially)

On The Osgiliath Flashback - PJ wanted to introduce the relationship of Faramir and Denethor, and show the entire family together. He also wanted to explain Boromir's motives. And explain the frase "A chance for Faramir, captain of Gondor to prove his quality". Logical enough.

On Leaving Out Shelob - PJ figured, that the dramatical ending of the film was the victory at Helm's Deep, and the emotional climax was Faramir letting Frodo go. So putting in Shelob on top of that, would have seemed like action for action's sake for the casual movie-goer. And cronologically, it happened during Return of the King, so that added to it.

On Stuff that Didn't Make the Film - Originally, as in back when LOTR was a two-movie project for Miramax, the decision to evacuate Helm's Deep was made because of a Warg Attack on Edoras, during the night. Aragorn would have then been dragged away by a rampaging warg and left for dead. This didn't make the cut, because it was impossible to shoot at Edoras during night, due to severe lighting issues. This ended up obviously as the Warg Attack during the evacuation

Also, Elrond was supposed to go to Lothlórien for council from Galadriel. Later, Arwen would have gone to Helm's Deep. This was cut because the screenwriters felt it didn't really go with Arwen's character and diverged from the book too much. This ended up as Haldir showing up at Helm's Deep.

In the scene where Faramir confronts Frodo, and Sam pleads him to let Frodo go, there is a moment when frodo goes to hide in the corner. This moment was originally supposed to be followed up by Faramir looking at Frodo and seeing him as a future Gollum mk. II, to illustrate what the ring was doing to him. This ended up being cut due to confused faces in New Line.

Discuss.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Setekh on January 24, 2004, 04:34:30 am
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
The mouth of Sauron is one. I'm suprised no one remembered him.


Was he in the films? I read about him, but don't remember seeing him.
Title: RETURN OF THE KING - Can you wait?
Post by: Stunaep on January 24, 2004, 06:07:39 am
nope, he'll be in the extended edition