Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fineus on December 16, 2003, 05:52:51 am
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Hail all,
Having a spot of bother working out the numerical system for ATI cards. I'm guessing that the 9800 Pro is the fastest / latest / bestest card in their selection and that the 9600, 9500 and so on are older, slower cards such as the GeForce 2 is a slower / older card than the GeForce 4...
Is this right? I've seen people recommend that people get the 9600 instead of the 9800 when they want a budget card and such... but surely the technology is much older?
It's confusing me... if anyone can decifer it that'd be nice :nod:
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
Is this right? I've seen people recommend that people get the 9600 instead of the 9800 when they want a budget card and such... but surely the technology is much older?
The 9800 is better. It's just that the 9600 is much cheaper.
The only oddity in the ATI range is the R9500 being better than the R9600.
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Originally posted by Kalfireth
Hail all,
Having a spot of bother working out the numerical system for ATI cards. I'm guessing that the 9800 Pro is the fastest / latest / bestest card in their selection and that the 9600, 9500 and so on are older, slower cards such as the GeForce 2 is a slower / older card than the GeForce 4...
Is this right? I've seen people recommend that people get the 9600 instead of the 9800 when they want a budget card and such... but surely the technology is much older?
It's confusing me... if anyone can decifer it that'd be nice :nod:
9600 is recommended quite frequently because of the budget aspect. Its alot of bang for your buck, although the R9500 was oddly enough a slightly better one (although more expensive for ATI's manufacturing the 9500 was a stripped down 9700 - thus the expense).
The top of the line, best of the best, video card from ATI is the Radeon 9800 XT which is complemented by a 9600 XT. The 9600 XT falls somewhere in the neighborhood of under the 9700Pro but above mostly everything else. The 9800XT is the card to beat at the moment although the nVidia FX5950 is close.
Also be warned that nVidia XT cards which came out after are actually the budget edition video cards (the SE model of the nVidia line). Nice little war going on.
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IceFire got it pretty well summed up. Good job Ice, it's good some people knows where we're going. ;)
I say go for Radeon 9600 XT. A lot cheaper than 9800 series and almost as fast as 9700 which is being phased out. But if you can find 9700 non-pro or Pro somewhere really cheap, go for it.
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Thanks all for the advice... I'm not looking to buy just yet but I figured I should clue myself in about whats on the market anyhow.
By the way, there may be speed differences but what technology differences are there between the cards? I'd kinda like something mildly future proof... full DX9 compliance etc...
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[color=cc9900]Every card 9500 and up has full DX9 support. As for physical technology, I know the 9600XT is pretty high up the ratings in that it employs some pretty techy gizmos in its innards, whether the 9800XT does this or not I don't know but it doesn't seem to matter.[/color]
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*pokes head in*
so out of the 9500, 9600, 9700 which one is the best buy?
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If price isn't an issue, I'd definately recommend the 9800 XT. It even anti-aliases the text in FS2 better then the GeForces :)
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Drew...if you can find an old 9700Pro you're still coming up ahead of the 9600XT's. Reason for that is the 8 channel 256bit memory channels versus 4 channel 128bit.
But the 9600's are a good buy through and through.
All of the Radeon 9500 and up are fully DirectX9 compliant...to the point that the ATI cards support the spec extremely closely (they were one of the manufacturers who really went with Microsoft to try and make it as good a spec as possible). So compaired to comperable nVidia cards you are going to se a serious performance boost for the next little while. Remedies are in the works apparently but the Radeon's got the FX's beat for now in the straight DX9 department.
You can't go wrong with those for fully DX9 abilities. And performance too.
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don't even look at 9200. It's a bit of an imposter.
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i myself own a great Radeon 9800 Pro!
sneezy little beast:D
but i would recommend to buy the Radeon 9800 XT...well....when you've enough money for it :)
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It goes about like this:
9000
9000 Pro
9200
9200 Pro
9100
9100 Pro
9600
9500
9600 Pro
9500 Pro
9600 XT
9800 SE
9800
9800 Pro
9800 Pro 256MB
9800XT
9800XT 256MB
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just got a 9600 SE, scp runs beautifully
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If youre looking for a good price and performance, I can reccommend a Radeon 9800 :)
the Radeon 9800 is about as fast as the Radeon 9700 Pro, but it's slightly cheaper, and doesn't get as hot (since it's running on lower clock speeds). The 256 MB versions are not really worth the extra money yet.
The Radeon 9800 XT has a performance advantage of 0.1 to 2% over the Radeon 9800 pro, so someone who purchases it would be really wasting lots of money :D
a Radeon 9700 Pro, or a Radeon 9800 (9800 Pro if you can afford it) is a very good choice. Just be sure you do NOT buy a Radeon SE card (9700 Pro SE or something like that). SE cards are simply worse Radeon cards overclocked to the performance of newer cards. And they changed the layout.
Also, you should look for a good manufacturer, for example you should never buy a Club3d Radeon.
If you want a cheap card, buy a PowerColor (best of the cheap ones), if you really want very good performance go with HIS or Hercules (Hercules is top in performance but gets hot easily and is expensive as hell). Sapphire Atlantis is also good performance-wise but the image quality is horrible.
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9600 instead of the 9800 when they want a budget card and such... but surely the technology is much older?
The technology is actually the same in both. They use the same cores, but the 9600 doesn't have as many features (or quite as much performance) as the 9800.
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Actually, the 9600 core is slightly different as 4 of the 9800's rendering pipes have been physically removed from the chip. It's not like the 9500 non-Pro where the pipes were there but were simply disabled and could be re-activated through a series of different hacks, you can't re-activate the pipes in a 9600 because they weren't there to begin with.
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Originally posted by Admiral LSD
Actually, the 9600 core *snip*
yeah i was looking at that. Thats why i want to get the 9700 if i can, but it is alot more money....
What do you guys think about buying theses things on Ebay?
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If you're thinking about buying from eBay (I wouldn't but then that's just me) and aren't looking to spend a lot of money then have a look around to see if you can't find a used 9500 Pro in reasonable condition. A 9500 Pro will not only age better than a 9600 but should be considerably cheaper than a 9700 as well.
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Current Price watch listings
$422 - RADEON 9800 XT 256MB
$367 RADEON 9800 Pro 256MB
$274 RADEON 9800 Pro 128MB
$339 - RADEON 9800 All-In-Wonder
$367 RADEON 9800 256MB
$144 - RADEON 9800 128MB
$230 - RADEON 9700 Pro 128MB
$285 - RADEON 9700 All-in-Wonder
$192 - RADEON 9700 128MB
$198 RADEON 9600 XT 256MB
$156 RADEON 9600 XT 128MB
$83 RADEON 9600 SE 128MB
$106 RADEON 9600 Pro 256MB
$83 RADEON 9600 Pro 128MB
$210 - RADEON 9600 All-in-Wonder
$106 RADEON 9600 256MB
$83 RADEON 9600 128MB
$177 - RADEON 9500 Pro 128MB
$126 - RADEON 9500 128MB
$112 - RADEON 9500 64MB
$91 - RADEON 9200 256MB
$44 - RADEON 9200 128MB
$44 - RADEON 9200 SE 128MB
$43 - RADEON 9200 SE 64MB
$43 - RADEON 9200 64MB
$68 - RADEON 9100 128MB
$55 - RADEON 9100 64MB
$71 RADEON 9000 Pro 128MB
$53 RADEON 9000 Pro 64MB
$45 - RADEON 9000
$69 - RADEON 9000 128MB
$142 - RADEON 9000 All-in-Wonder
$45 - RADEON 9000 64MB
$60 RADEON 8500
$75 - RADEON 8500 128MB
$46 - RADEON 7500
$53 - RADEON 7500 128MB
$30 - RADEON 7000
$34 - RADEON 7000 64MB DDR
$53 - RADEON 64MB DDR VIVO
$30 - RADEON 32MB DDR
$414 - GeForce FX 5950 256MB
$289 - GeForce FX 5900 256MB
$188 GeForce FX 5900 128MB
$414 - GeForce FX 5800 256MB
$193 GeForce FX 5800 128MB
$108 GeForce FX 5600 Ultra 128MB
$104 GeForce FX 5600 256MB
$92 - GeForce FX 5600 128MB
$79 GeForce FX 5200 256MB
$56 GeForce FX 5200 128MB
$58 - GeForce FX 5200 64MB
$129 - GeForce4 TI 4800
$129 - GeForce4 TI 4600
$129 - GeForce4 TI 4600 8x AGP
$105 - GeForce4 TI 4400
$91 - GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB
$70 - GeForce4 TI 4200 64MB
$46 GeForce4 MX 440 8x AGP 128MB
$33 GeForce4 MX 440 8x AGP 64MB
$56 - GeForce4 MX 440 4x 128MB
$34 - GeForce4 MX 440 4x 64MB
$32 - GeForce4 MX 420
$88 - GeForce3 TI 200 128MB
$60 - GeForce3 TI 200 64MB
$83 - GeForce3
$109 - GeForce2 Ultra 64MB
$55 - GeForce2 TI 64MB
$100 - GeForce2 Pro 64MB
$33 - GeForce2 MX400 64MB
$28 - GeForce2 MX400 32MB
$28 - GeForce2 MX200 32MB
$31 - GeForce2 MX200 64MB
$47 - GeForce2 GTS 64MB
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.. and that would be cheap & sucky manufacturers i guess... (since not even one is mentioned in that list)
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Probably, but the reason no manufacturers are listed is because all that is is a list of the cheapest possible price for cards based on that particular chipset. On the Pricewatch site each of those is a link giving you a full list of cards, manufacturers and suppliers.
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Originally posted by Ace
If price isn't an issue, I'd definately recommend the 9800 XT. It even anti-aliases the text in FS2 better then the GeForces :)
Radeon 9800XT rocks:nod:
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my 7500 is doing me good ;)
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Totalcost/Price/Shipping Dealer/OtherInfo
VisionTek - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - VisionTek Xtasy 9800 PRO 256MB DDR AGP (VGA TV out DVI) ati 256mb 9800 pro retail
Details:
RADEON 9800PRO 256M ATI CHIPSET RADEON 9800PRO 256MB DDR DVI/TV 8X AGP RETAIL BOX
Part - 30994
Updated - 12/17, 5:48 AM TotalCost $415.99
Price - $409
Shipping - $6.99 Airborne Ground Delivery
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? COMPUTERHQ.COM
Score -3 / 3 Feedbacks
888-455-7978
408-228-5278 Milpitas, CA
Info ...
PAYPAL OK! ComputerHQ, on-line since 1995, over 60,000 SKUS with realtime stock status on most products, Intl Orders Accepted. Over 15 shipping methods. BBB Member. Questions email [email protected]. Custom system build. Many overstocked items.
International Sales OK
ATI - ATI RADEON 9800 XT 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI ORIGINAL ATI RADEON 9800XT OEM.
Details:
ATI RADEON 9800XT 256MB DDR 412MHz Engine Clock 730MHz Memory Clock Limited (OEM)
Part - VC-CELE-001
Updated - 12/13, 2:33 PM TotalCost $437
Price - $437
Shipping - FREE FEDEX 2-3 DAYS SAVER INSURED
Can't buy? GameVE.com
Score 0 / 17 Feedbacks
800-228-9395
626-282-6247 Monterey Park , CA
Info ...
Plase come visit our Newly Re-Designed GameVE.COM!! Not only we improved our appreance, it is much more concentrate on what YOU WANT!! Languages Spoken - English, Chinese, and Korean
No Image ATI - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - ATI RADEON 9800 XT ATLANTIS 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI (OEM)
Details:
ATI RADEON 9800XT ATLANTIS 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI (in stock)
Part - VC-124-118
Updated - 12/12, 10:45 AM TotalCost $437
Price - $437
Shipping - FREE FEDEX 2-3DAY INSURED
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? Xtreme Gear
Score 125 / 179 Feedbacks
888-937-5580
626-813-7730 Baldwin Park, CA
Info ...
Xtreme Gear is not just offering bottom line price on all of our products. We take pride on our customer service records. Please feel free to read over 1,000 reviews about Xtreme Gear @ www.resellerratings.com/seller2753.html
ATI - ATI RADEON 9800 XT 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI VIDEO CARD WITH SOFTWARE RADEON 9800 XT 256MB
Details:
ATI RADEON 9800 XT 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI VIDEO CARD BULK PACK
Updated - 12/13, 8:25 PM TotalCost $438
Price - $438
Shipping - FREE shipping
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? str8buy.com
Score 35 / 49 Feedbacks
866-787-8289
909-595-8188 Walnut, CA
Info ...
Platinum Plus Customer Care-Five Stars Top Service in Yahoo Shopping-Better Business Bureau Certified since 1998. Easy 2 step Check out. E-mail order confirmation & tracking info. All Products sold are brand NEW only. STR8BUY Thank you for your business.
International Sales OK
PowerColor - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - Power-Color ATI Radeon 9800 XT 256MB DDR AGP8X CRT DVI TV-Out - (Retail)
Details:
412Mhz Core 730Mhz Memory Speed Dual View Bundle with Tom Raider VI and Half life 2 games CD
Part - XR98TD3
Updated - 12/17, 1:33 AM TotalCost $442
Price - $442
Shipping - FREE
Can't buy? Ackeytech USA, Inc.
Score 0 / 0 Feedbacks
877-801-5665
562-801-5665 santa fe springs, CA
Info ...
ATI - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - ONLY - ATI RADEON 9800 XT 256MB DDR AGP8X TVO/DVI 100-435100 w/ FREE GAME-HALF-II LIFE (Retail)
Details:
New! ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB ORIGINAL FULL RETAIL BOXED w/ FREE HALF-LIFE-II GAME
Part - VC-124-120
Updated - 12/12, 10:45 AM TotalCost $442
Price - $442
Shipping - FREE FEDEX 2-3DAY INSURED
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? Xtreme Gear
Score 125 / 179 Feedbacks
888-937-5580
626-813-7730 Baldwin Park, CA
Info ...
Xtreme Gear is not just offering bottom line price on all of our products. We take pride on our customer service records. Please feel free to read over 1,000 reviews about Xtreme Gear @ www.resellerratings.com/seller2753.html
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PowerColor - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - ATI RADEON 9600 Pro 256MB DDR AGP8X TV & DVI-Out - RETAIL BOX w/ DVI to CRT Convert (P/N: R96-D3G)
Details:
RADEON 9600 Pro 256MB 400Mhz Core 400Mhz Memory Speed Dual VGA Ready Power by ATI
Part - R96-D3G
Updated - 12/17, 1:35 AM TotalCost $152
Price - $152
Shipping - FREE
Can't buy? Ackeytech USA, Inc.
Score 0 / 0 Feedbacks
877-801-5665
562-801-5665 santa fe springs, CA
Info ...
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ATI - Sapphire RADEON 9500 PRO 128MB DDR AGP 8X TVO/DVI (OEM) 1yr Warranty
Details:
RADEON 9500 PRO DDR 128MB AGP 8X w/ TV-Out DVI Dual head 8-pixel pipeline IN STOCK
Part - 310-18717T
Updated - 12/12, 1:51 PM TotalCost $177
Price - $177
Shipping - Free or pick up
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? Allstarshop.com
Score 12 / 12 Feedbacks
800-424-7188
949-598-3188 Lake Forest , CA
Info ...
All products come w/ original mfg warranty, no extra hidden charge! Start from 1994, over 10,000 (vs. 100s, 1000s) satisfied customers on bizrate.com Resellerrating Elite Customer Excellence Awards: Platium Plus! Will-Call Available 9am - 6pm M-F
Sapphire Technology Limited - ATI OEM RADEON 9500 PRO 128MB DDR BULK
Details:
RADEON 9500 PRO 128 ATI OEM 9500PRO 128MB DDR BULK
Part - N82E16814102258
Updated - 12/9, 8:50 PM TotalCost $178
Price - $178
Shipping - Free FedEx Saver
Can't buy? Newegg.com
Score 59 / 60 Feedbacks
800-390-1119
909-395-9046 La Puente , CA
Info ...
Winner of Bizrate Circle of Excellence Award 2001. PLATINUM PLUS Customer Satisfaction Rating at Resellerratings. Real-time inventory with 6500+ computer hardware & software. FAST shipping, rush order processing available. Order online 24/7 at Newegg.com.
ATI - ONLINE ORDER ONLY - ATI OEM RADEON 9500 PRO 128MB DDR
Details:
RADEON 9500 PRO 128 ATI OEM 9500PRO 128MB DDR BULK
Part - 310-17066T
Updated - 12/10, 1:21 PM TotalCost $239
Price - $239
Shipping - Free or pick up
Will Ship - Same - 1day
Can't buy? Allstarshop.com
Score 12 / 12 Feedbacks
800-424-7188
949-598-3188 Lake Forest, CA
Info ...
Shipping - Free FedEx Saver
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Meh, you could have put a link to pricewatch's site, rather than copying the whole thing...
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$442 for a GPU ?
Who can afford that ?
that 9600 Pro 256mb looks mighty tempting
for the sake of a little balance here's the nVidia pecking order:
5900ultra
5900
5600ultra
5600
5200ultra
5200
Ati tend to be slightly cheaper, performance much the same.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
that 9600 Pro 256mb looks mighty tempting
[color=cc9900]Indeed they do. Replace the 'Pro' with 'XT' and you'll see what lured me to make a reasonably-priced hole in my wallet ^_^[/color]
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I rather like the Tyan 9800 Pro, myself. The heatsink is far superior to the standard ATI, and it costs less.
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Holy smokes, that's complicated. I haven't been keeping up. :)
So, what card should I slot into my future laptop? ;)
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Oh god...laptops eh? Thats a whole different ballgame. Its harder to find really solid reviews of laptop based video card solutions and almost none of them offer the same kind of performance or competition compaired to the others.
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Originally posted by Admiral LSD
A 9500 Pro will not only age better than a 9600 but should be considerably cheaper than a 9700 as well.
you said somthing about the 8 rendering pipelines on the 9500 being disabled but still physically on the card... if i were to get the 9500 could i somhow get the extra pipelines working? If so, what would that do....
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Originally posted by IceFire
Oh god...laptops eh? Thats a whole different ballgame. Its harder to find really solid reviews of laptop based video card solutions and almost none of them offer the same kind of performance or competition compaired to the others.
No kidding. I was looking for reviews earlier today - hardly anything substantial on laptop graphics chipsets. I can't bear to give up gaming, so I may end up chickening out and staying with a desktop.
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Setekh, someone told me that Alienware has laptops that have upgradable chipsets. U may want to check them out.
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That's due to the fact that Alienware laptops are really desktops in laptop form. Don't expect a long battery life.