Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: ryuune75 on December 17, 2003, 10:51:12 am
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Hi everyone,
I just discovered (pretty late, uh?) this wonderful game, and just as i finished the main campaing i started modding it, and it's a lot of fun; I'm attemping a TC, namely a Macross (Robotech) one, and in a couple of weeks i got most of the ships in game and working, but the worst problems did come out when trying to make missions for a campaign, that i coundnt resolve even looking in this forum (there are so many topics...), so excuse me if i'll be asking things that were discussed many times before.
ok, so the questions are:
- some mission involve a very large number of capships, but it seem that there is an hard coded limit for how many of them are in the mission, that i estimate to be around 38-40; any more ship i add will make both fred2 and fs2 crash. the funny thing is that i can add as many fighters (even very high-poly ones) i want without any problems at all.
- There is a way to end a mission without hyperspacing (my fighters don't have FTL capability), other than "red_alert"?
- Why i can't make the resupply shipwork in my mod (not a modified one, even the original)? Whenever i call it and it hyperspaces in the game just crashes to desktop.
- Some capships have foward firing beam cannons, with a very low Fov, so they need to face directly an enemy ship to fire; is there a way to make a ship to turn to face another in a mission?
Thanks in advance (and sorry for my english)
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ok, more then 10 caps is asking for a very slow mission, or at least some very boring action.
if you use the SCP (http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=50) you can end a mission rather easily with some fancy sexping, like this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,19076.msg382866.html#msg382866)
dunno, really, i don't have a clue
and there should be an ai-face-ship SEXP or something like that.
note, look at my signature, i am just geussing.
and the english isn;t that bad, really, i've seen a lot worse.
edit: i forgot, :welcome:
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Originally posted by ryuune75 -some mission involve a very large number of capships, but it seem that there is an hard coded limit for how many of them are in the mission, that i estimate to be around 38-40; any more ship i add will make both fred2 and fs2 crash. the funny thing is that i can add as many fighters (even very high-poly ones) i want without any problems at all.
You could made some low-poly models for the caps and insert them as fighters. I'm sure some of your caps are quite far away so that the player won't see the difference unless he flies there to investigate. I think FS2 had something similar.
-- There is a way to end a mission without hyperspacing (my fighters don't have FTL capability), other than "red_alert"?
That can be handeled with SEXP's. With those you can make your ship land in a hangar bay, for example. Or just tick of the 'no warp effect' in Fred for that ship, so when the ship exits the mission you won't see the warp-effect.
- Some capships have foward firing beam cannons, with a very low Fov, so they need to face directly an enemy ship to fire; is there a way to make a ship to turn to face another in a mission?
Limit the FOV of this turrets, and script the movement of this ships with waypoints.
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there was already a robotech mod around i thought...
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yeah, i remember it now too, but it died, but someone did release some stuff, dunno who made it though.
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Max Sterling, and I think maybe Unknown Target. Maybe. Venom/Nico did some stuff for it too, I think.
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there's Robotech stuff at the downloads section of the HLP homepage, if I remember right.
could the resupply ship be a dock point issue ?
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Originally posted by ryuune75
Hi everyone,
I just discovered (pretty late, uh?) this wonderful game, and just as i finished the main campaing i started modding it, and it's a lot of fun; I'm attemping a TC, namely a Macross (Robotech) one, and in a couple of weeks i got most of the ships in game and working,
You should definately find Star Dragon and talk to him (just have a look for him on the them member list and PM him or something) since he's interested in getting a Robotech mod up and running and has some models from the earlier attempt IIRC.
Originally posted by ryuune75
but the worst problems did come out when trying to make missions for a campaign, that i coundnt resolve even looking in this forum (there are so many topics...), so excuse me if i'll be asking things that were discussed many times before.
ok, so the questions are:
- some mission involve a very large number of capships, but it seem that there is an hard coded limit for how many of them are in the mission, that i estimate to be around 38-40; any more ship i add will make both fred2 and fs2 crash. the funny thing is that i can add as many fighters (even very high-poly ones) i want without any problems at all.
There is/was a limit on the number of subsystems that can be present in a single mission. As you can see a single destroyer can be worth about 10 fighters in those terms. This problem may have been solved in FS2_open but in general it is a good idea to stay way from huge fleet battles anyway. They tend to leave the player with very little to do.
Originally posted by ryuune75
- Why i can't make the resupply shipwork in my mod (not a modified one, even the original)? Whenever i call it and it hyperspaces in the game just crashes to desktop.
Did you remember to put both dockpoints and a docking path on your models? If not the supply ship will leap in attempt to dock and then the game will find them missing and most likely crash.
Originally posted by ryuune75
- Some capships have foward firing beam cannons, with a very low Fov, so they need to face directly an enemy ship to fire; is there a way to make a ship to turn to face another in a mission?
As others have stated use waypoints to make the ships turn in the direction you want. If the enemy ship is far away AI-chase will also work but remember to cancel this before the ships get too close together as it looks a bit crap then.
Originally posted by ryuune75
Thanks in advance (and sorry for my english)
The english is fine but using a few more capital letters and leaving a space between some paragraphs would make things much easier to read.
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Originally posted by kasperl
ok, more then 10 caps is asking for a very slow mission, or at least some very boring action.
not really, my pc can handle 40 of my (not too high poly) ships without any slowdown, and those ships serve mostly as background, to give the sense of a very big battle gong on.
Originally posted by Lynx
You could made some low-poly models for the caps and insert them as fighters. I'm sure some of your caps are quite far away so that the player won't see the difference unless he flies there to investigate. I think FS2 had something similar.
you mean the fleet of Sathanas surrounding the sun, right? no, i need my ships to fire, and the player has to fly in the midst of them, and also blow up a lot of them (put some very powerful missiles in this mod)
Originally posted by kasperl
you can end a mission rather easily with some fancy sexping
yeah i know they added some sexp for that, but for now i'm modding the retail version, where there is no docking option or wathever
Originally posted by Lynx
Limit the FOV of this turrets, and script the movement of this ships with waypoints.
the fov is already limited, and that's the problem, they won't fire unless they are almost perfectly aligned with another ship, and for waypoints, well, enemy ships move most of the time, so it won't work. I don't see any ai-face-ship...
Anyway, thanks everyone for the answers :)
Yes, i know there was a robotech mod, and was quite nice, but it was very incomplete (only a few ships) and it is dead for long time now; beside i'm making a Macross, not Robotech mod.
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Originally posted by ryuune75
not really, my pc can handle 40 of my (not too high poly) ships without any slowdown, and those ships serve mostly as background, to give the sense of a very big battle gong on.
[/b] this is often reffered to as Battle of Endor syndrome, meaing a very big battle where the player hasn't got much to do, see here (http://www.volitionwatch.com/articles/ArticleDisp.php?ID=26) .
you mean the fleet of Sathanas surrounding the sun, right? no, i need my ships to fire, and the player has to fly in the midst of them, and also blow up a lot of them (put some very powerful missiles in this mod)
[/b]
no, the Sathanas thing involved a picture and some fancy background placing. i think he means the Knossoses and Sathanases in the SOC mission with the "DIVE DIVE DIVE"
yeah i know they added some sexp for that, but for now i'm modding the retail version, where there is no docking option or wathever
the fov is already limited, and that's the problem, they won't fire unless they are almost perfectly aligned with another ship, and for waypoints, well, enemy ships move most of the time, so it won't work. I don't see any ai-face-ship...
Anyway, thanks everyone for the answers :)
Yes, i know there was a robotech mod, and was quite nice, but it was very incomplete (only a few ships) and it is dead for long time now; beside i'm making a Macross, not Robotech mod.
edit: if you want things to explode in the background, you can use the SCP and make animated backgrounds, it will take less resources and will be able to be made easier. also, if you use the SCP you will be able to use a -cell command line, wich will cell shade all ships, wich might be what you want in this mod. this is something anime right?
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Originally posted by karajorma
You should definately find Star Dragon and talk to him (just have a look for him on the them member list and PM him or something) since he's interested in getting a Robotech mod up and running and has some models from the earlier attempt IIRC.
I will thanks :) (but again it's Macross mod)
Oh and for the models, oh well, i'm no modeler at all, i'm using models ripped from other commercial Macross games... (i know, i'm cheating :) but the result is damn good)
Originally posted by karajorma
There is/was a limit on the number of subsystems that can be present in a single mission. As you can see a single destroyer can be worth about 10 fighters in those terms. This problem may have been solved in FS2_open but in general it is a good idea to stay way from huge fleet battles anyway. They tend to leave the player with very little to do.
Oh subsystems, now i understand why i can add fighters (mine have usually zero subsistems)...
Does anyone know if this thing have really been changed in FSO?
Btw, for subsystem you mean only turrets or also "fake" subsystem like engine or docking bays?
For the issue of large ship battles, well, if i'm to replicate the show i HAVE to put a large numbers of capships; in the anime there was battles involving something like 4 million 2-4 kilometer ships, so creating a mission replicating this battle with only 8 or 10 capships will seem ridicolous. For the gameplay, well, i gave the player (using his wingmates mostly) the power to blow up a dozen ships (like in the show btw) so it won't be boring
Originally posted by karajorma
Did you remember to put both dockpoints and a docking path on your models? If not the supply ship will leap in attempt to dock and then the game will find them missing and most likely crash.
DOH!!i didn't know player's ships needed docking points... told you i'm a noob :) thanks
Originally posted by karajorma
The english is fine but using a few more capital letters and leaving a space between some paragraphs would make things much easier to read.
OK :)
Originally posted by kasperl
edit: if you want things to explode in the background, you can use the SCP and make animated backgrounds, it will take less resources and will be able to be made easier. also, if you use the SCP you will be able to use a -cell command line, wich will cell shade all ships, wich might be what you want in this mod. this is something anime right? [/B]
Animated backgroud? that will be VERY helpful, didn't know you could have that.
Cell shading? Naaaa i don't like the look of it at all sorry :ick
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Grab modelview from the downloads section and read karajorma's FAQ for the story behind dock points and sub-systems.
:)
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animated backgrounds are pretty easily done, IIRC, you do need a recent SCP build. the SCP also supports more polygones and more stuff in a single mission. it also includes shine maps, glow maps, and a huge amount of new SEXPs. you can also make 3d explosions and a huge amount of new kinds of weapons.
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/index.php/Fs2_open%3A%20Source%20Code%20Project
that page contains a lot of the currently available info on the SCP, if not all.
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Originally posted by ryuune75
Oh subsystems, now i understand why i can add fighters (mine have usually zero subsistems)...
Does anyone know if this thing have really been changed in FSO?
Btw, for subsystem you mean only turrets or also "fake" subsystem like engine or docking bays?
It's all of them. Turrets and engines etc. That's why the caps bring you up to the limit so quickly.
As for Star Dragon I believe he's a fan of Macross as well (I tend to confuse the two since I've never seen much of either)
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Originally posted by kasperl
animated backgrounds are pretty easily done, IIRC, you do need a recent SCP build. the SCP also supports more polygones and more stuff in a single mission. it also includes shine maps, glow maps, and a huge amount of new SEXPs. you can also make 3d explosions and a huge amount of new kinds of weapons.
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/index.php/Fs2_open%3A%20Source%20Code%20Project
that page contains a lot of the currently available info on the SCP, if not all.
I tryed running FSO but it's pretty screwed up in my system:
- first of all without HTL is horribly slow, like 2 ships on screen and i drop to 2-3 fps; ok, with HTL all returns to 60+ fps, but still it seem pretty wrong.
- second all the lighting in the ships are wrong, one side is brigtly illuminated and the opposite is totally dark
maybe it's my system? I use an athlon Xp and a Geforce4 ti4200.
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Since there was no alternative , as a non-modler I had to take what I could get so yeah in REF you have both Macross and Robotech ships...
For people who don't know or may be confused Carl Macek (Harmony Gold) ripped off 3 anime shows in Japan. He basicly took the best pasrts of each movie (like rick hunter in teh first one) edited them to make i follow a script he wrote and burned teh rest. The got people to voice act over the anime. Add two more movies to contiue the "SAGA" Super dimentional Calvary Southern Cross, and Mospedea (next generation and boom you have Robotech. BTW Tatsunoko were the original animators and EACH of the 3 series had NOTHING to do with the others totally different characters, storlylines and situations. In fact I am sure there are many people in Japan who probably still do not know the word Robotech, and many who do are disgusted by it.
I agree the method was crude and brutal BUT I must admit I liked the overall storyline, plus I am not complaining since I didn't get to see the Austrailian dubbed MDYRL (Macross Do You Remember Love? made in 1984) till 1993!!! They held on to that sucker a long time before releasing it to the west! (it's gotten better now, the ususal wait is like 2-3 years versus 8!)
In short (too late :)) I just want to make something FUN for teh player that makes them feel like they are in one of our favorite animes... The original mod team did an awesome job making the pack you edit yourself and I made 8 missions so far (crappy and still need work!).
Ryuune75, if you would helpme out I'd appreciate it! The number of ships I have available is limited and if you managed to convert ships from teh import games or other sources would you be willing to gie me access to them? This screen was 8 months ago but also when my progress stopped basicly.
http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/6-2-1-1059396471?m=0&pg=5&ro=1&co=0
Remember this one? All universes collide at ZaHaDum, 200 fightes and cap ships duking it out! I use the old DTP filelimits exe... and FS2 retail that's it!
http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/3-3-1-1069886415?m=0&pg=2&ro=2&co=0
As for battle cry if their space looked more real and not like the cell shaded ships I bet teh game would have looked better! I persoanlly think these cell-shaded ships lok really cool in FS2. like the Zent Quil. PORT all the Battle Cry stuff to FS2 please! :)
http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/6-1-4-1059247716?m=0&pg=5&ro=0&co=3
I'd appreciate any help you or others could provide...L8tr...
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Ryuune75, if you would helpme out I'd appreciate it! The number of ships I have available is limited and if you managed to convert ships from teh import games or other sources would you be willing to gie me access to them? This screen was 8 months ago but also when my progress stopped basicly.
Hi,
the good thing is at the moment i have a complete set of US spacy and Zentreadj ships (i'll put Meltrandj ships later), the bad thing is that i don't own the rights any of over those models.... my sources were:
- Macross VO from Boothec, it was a mediocre pc game abaout macross, but it has very nice models in it (and they also were in a nice, non crypted d3d format, hehe)
- The Macross Dyrl TC for Homeworld, mainly because of their magnificent version of the SDF-1 (that i also remodelled into "robot" mode, a thing they lacked). They also had a better Zentraedj flagship than Macross VO, so i used that instead.
- Some few other models found years ago on the interned, that i don't know where they belong to.
Now, the copyrights of the models from Macross VO doesn't bother me at all, but i'd rather not distribute a mod using the models from the guys of Homeworld Dyrl TC without their permission.
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Yeah there were AFAIK 2 HW mods one it totally defunct (no response to my mails) and the other I met a team member and we "met in dark of night" he he so I already accquired what I need (as you no doubt could see in that shot.) IF you woulding mind sending me the VO ones however that would be cool.
I only Use TS to add a light for grouping purposes and orient it. Plus I use 3dexploration to change out textures to resize... Plus file convert from other formats to .cob for PCS later on...
If that would be ok with you my email is [email protected]
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Yeah there were AFAIK 2 HW mods one it totally defunct (no response to my mails) and the other I met a team member and we "met in dark of night" he he so I already accquired what I need (as you no doubt could see in that shot.) IF you woulding mind sending me the VO ones however that would be cool.
Yeah the old Robotech HW mod is long time dead, but i don't use any model from them, and if you are in contact with the Dyrl team then it's ok
Originally posted by Star Dragon
I only Use TS to add a light for grouping purposes and orient it. Plus I use 3dexploration to change out textures to resize... Plus file convert from other formats to .cob for PCS later on...
me too, i only use 3dsMax, i think TS is a total crap of a modelling program
Originally posted by Star Dragon
If that would be ok with you my email is [email protected]
Ok i'll send them to you as soon as i get home, btw you want the .pof files that i've made and game-ready or just the original models so you can put them in game yourself? (they are in directx file format with .bmp textures, but some models are split in little pieces and it's not easy to put them together again)
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Ahhh, Robotech. Will it see light this time?
Welcome to HLP, ryuune. :)
:welcome:
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Originally posted by Setekh
Ahhh, Robotech. Will it see light this time?
Well, only if there are people interested in playing it... but it's Macross, not Robotech! :hopping: (just kidding :) )
Originally posted by Setekh
Welcome to HLP, ryuune. :)
thanks
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ANY anime mod is better than nothing so don't knock it! ;)
If you already got teh Vo ones .pofed, that woul dbe great, but I'll also take the ones redy to BE .pofed in case I have a resize problem (like teh galactica, I needed to amke it 3 times bigger BUT when I re-pofed it fromt eh pof to cob back to pof again teh geometry got screwed and it was shards of death time! Ayyie!. Methinks that is you try to resize a pof you MAy get some wierd erros? Anyone else have that problem ever?
How big did you make the pofs? Ie the old RTmod veritech is way too big like 30meters but I was afraid to scale it smaller in cause of ruining the model. When I convert other ships to FS2 I try to make them no bigger than the veritech, (usually 10-25 meters dependng on shape) that way most fighters can be of relative size, I reason the veritech is bigger cause of the transforming gear needed and fact that in battloid form it is 50ft tall...
l8tr! Oh I take it you already have all the RT models then? Would you be intersted in teh REF ships like the Garish, Horizont and such?
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Ok, then ill send you all the work i've done so far, includig the tables etc... (something is from the old Robotech mod, like the anim of the faces and the music, but i'm planning to replace them soon, especially the music with original macross one)
Yeah you can't rescale a POF so easily, you have to re-open them in TS and replace all the lights, etc....
BUT..you shouldn't worry cause if ModelView is not wrong my ship scale is the exact one as in the show, namely:
14meters long valkyries
1200 meters Macross
4000 meters Zent flagships
etc.... so all the ships are up to scale.
oh, and no, the Valkyrie is not 50foot tall (or i think 15 meters, i'm european, you know) it's 12 meter tall in battroid form.
Zentraedj battlepods are a bit bigger, around 18-20 meters tall.
Anyway i didn't use any models from the old robotech mod, and have already almost all the sips from the show in game, namely:
Valkyries A, J, S type
Super and Strike valkyrie
Armored valkyrie
Lancer 2
Ghost drone
SDF1 Macross (cruise mode)
Armd space carrier
Oberth destroyer
Zent battlepods (normal, light missile, heavy missile)
Officer Pod
Zent Power armor
Melt Power armor
Fighter pod
Zent Heavy fighter
Zent scout ship, cruiser, transport, command ship, flagship, monitor
The ones i have but not in game yet are:
SDF-1 "Robot" mode
Zent "cyclop"
Myria's Power armor
VF-1E "elintseeker"
VT-1 valkyrie
"Rabbit" shuttle
Recon zent battlepod
plus some meltrandi capship (low priority)
i don't plan to put destroids in game, cause they won't be useful at all i think.
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I'm mainly intersted in the models for now, but if you don't mind ani's athat's cool. I already have almost 1 gig of voices though so music and pilot voices I got covered :) I can image someone trying to download all those captures (what? 1 gig just for voices, no way my 56k is gonna DL that!) LOL ehehe
Of course this took me like 2 weeks of constant viewing teh entire series over and over on dvd and using goldwave to make teh wave files... I wish i could convert them to MP3 to make them smaller but FS2 wouldn't work with them right?
As for the destroids, if the Combat Federation mod had successfully complete the ground protion you could write mission when you are on the deck of the sdf-1 and fight destroids and batloid mecha :) but it never happened.. I wish that team well and hopw they continue their work in the future! I really wanted to recreate teh Mars base siege and have the zentreaddi swarm out of the mountains attacking the base!
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
I'm mainly intersted in the models for now, but if you don't mind ani's athat's cool. I already have almost 1 gig of voices though so music and pilot voices I got covered :) I can image someone trying to download all those captures (what? 1 gig just for voices, no way my 56k is gonna DL that!) LOL ehehe
Wow, a lot of work that is! But i suppose the voices you ripped are those from the american dubbing right? No offense, but i think that dubbing is just awful...oh well, and beside my 640k adsl allow me not to care the size of that dowload if you are willing to share :) (also .wav files con be zipped to smaller sizes)
About the music, well, i plan to put original Macross music in game, but still the Robotech musics were pretty cool too (except from Minmei's songs...)
Originally posted by Star Dragon
As for the destroids, if the Combat Federation mod had successfully complete the ground protion you could write mission when you are on the deck of the sdf-1 and fight destroids and batloid mecha :) but it never happened.. I wish that team well and hopw they continue their work in the future! I really wanted to recreate teh Mars base siege and have the zentreaddi swarm out of the mountains attacking the base!
Well, that would be indeed very pretty, i'd like to put some missions on planet surfarce, and i'm currently trying to figure out if it's possible to simulate it (maybe a very large flat model to simulate ground...)
The Robotech mod already succeded is simulating the atmosfere of erath with a sky-blue colored nebula, the effect was pretty cool it looked like flying in the clouds) but still the surface was missing...
p.s. i still havent worked on the .ani (it's only a couple of weeks i started modding Freespace) so i'm using those from the Robotech mod. I do istead have the "load" image ad the "tech room" image, but only for the UN space units for not, working on those for Zentraedj mecha (yeah i have them all playable)