Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 10:11:28 am

Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 10:11:28 am
I can't friggin decide, so I'll ask you:
What do you think would fit better:
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/PalBC.JPG)

Should I put another big turret or keep th missle launcher (marked in red) where the missile luncher currently is?

Should I put another missile luncher, or keep the small turret ?(green line)

EDIT: In case you were wondering - current armament consists of 6 beam turets, 8 big gun turrets and 42 small turrets (not counting the 3 missile launchers on the pic)
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Starks on December 23, 2003, 10:14:47 am
Put an ubermassive beam on the front.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 10:21:58 am
Allready has a beam in front (not uber-massive, but still big)...
NEXT!
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Starks on December 23, 2003, 10:27:29 am
Put something that would be able to cover the angles of that area... Put a light turret there or a missile launcher.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 23, 2003, 10:30:52 am
[color=cc9900]I know this isn't the topic, but that thing really, really looks like a boat. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but as it stands it looks rather like a LOD1 rather than a LOD0 - either greater texture detail or greater model detail would help some. What's the current polygon count minus turrets, incidentally?[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Unknown Target on December 23, 2003, 10:36:54 am
I agree with Odyssey, it's a bit too blocky. Put some better detailing on it, and it'd look good. Remember, when designing cap ships, you have to remember that you're gonna be flying next to this sucker at close range for a long time, so it has to be interesting to look at.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Flaser on December 23, 2003, 10:57:06 am
The super- and understructure are great.

Now all that needs a little variation is the great slab of the main body between.

Try to break up the slabness.

That's my 2 cents.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: magatsu1 on December 23, 2003, 12:06:06 pm
I've been woundering about turrets. I mean, Deimos and Hecates have turrtes with huge barrels, but the actual "shot" is a didy little laser bolt.

I think some sort of long range shell (like WW2 battleships) would be pretty cool
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 12:46:10 pm
It does look a bit like a ship, doesn't it...like WW2 battleship to be exact. I wanted it that way.

Hull has around 960 polys.  
Maby the pic isn't quite good... Bah...I'll add a few more polys to it....

And you've seen the turret number, right? Well...maby I will ad 8 more...to round the number up to 50.

Long-range heavy shots it will be.

But did it occur to you that you didn't answer the qusetion?
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Sheepy on December 23, 2003, 01:27:53 pm
you really do love your turrets dont you
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: StratComm on December 23, 2003, 01:28:25 pm
Well, technically it's questions, but anyway:

Big turret/Missile Launcher: Missile Launcher
I have two reasons for this:


As for the side turrets, leave them like they are in that shot as well, you don't need to cluster the same kind of weapon up like that in Freespace, so spread those turrets out more.  However, ultimately the decision should not be "which looks best" but "which is most appropriate for the guns that will go there"

Also, those missile turrets look strangely familiar.  Have you been borrowing parts from the Raynor or is that just a superficial similarity?
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 01:36:08 pm
No..they are mine... I ain't borrowing nothi'n!

Misile launchers...I tought so...you right..it is better with them...

Expect the paladin Battlescruiser to be done within several days.
If you have any more suggestion, fire away, for once I convert it and PCS it, it will be too late...
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 23, 2003, 02:44:07 pm
[color=cc9900]I'm afraid I can't really see where those polygons are going. I think that's because you've chucked them all at teeny areas of the ship, like the bridge and stuff. The 'bulk' of the ship looks like it's only taking a few hundred max of the total, which isn't very even.[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Flaser on December 23, 2003, 04:05:37 pm
You could put a bump in the front of the ship - that would remove the whole "flatness".

Though I wonder what it would serve - radar dome?
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 23, 2003, 04:48:31 pm
The upped version is done. LOD0 now has 1130 polys for the hull, 2004 with turrets (debris still not done).
Total armament listing:
- 8 big anti-cap turrets
- 2 missile launchers
- 6 beam cannons
- 2 medium anti-cap turrets
- 1 uber missile launcher
- 50 small turrets.

*scratches beard....too overgund?...
Better I remove 8 small turets (I added them on the extusion I added on the main body..will post pic soon...) and put another 2 medium anti-cap turrets..
That should do it...
Oh..and the pic:
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/PalBC2.JPG)
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 23, 2003, 05:58:52 pm
[color=cc9900]Better, but I've got another issue. Either this thing goes 5 m/s, or those are some crazily powerful engines for their size...[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Baron MacDoblin on December 24, 2003, 02:33:05 am
I still think it's kind of ugly. It needs chamfering. Lots of chamfering.

Oh, and you need missiiles. Lots of missiles. Broadside, VLS, turreted, etc.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 24, 2003, 10:09:47 am
Have you even looked at the weapons list? It allready has amassive firepower! If I add more it will take out the Sath on it's own!

You think it's ugly? Fine by me. I think it's great and it's exactly how I wanted it to be.

Odyssey, you think the engines are too small?
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 24, 2003, 10:30:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Odyssey, you think the engines are too small?
[/B]

[color=cc9900]Yeah. Practically the whole back of most FS2 ships is engine, or at least there's a lot more engine-to-size than your ship has got.
I think I've figured out what my main reservations about the shape are based on: it has details which make it look big, but the general shape IMO is not that of a huge ship. It reminds me more of tiny little fast-boat trimarans which are long thin hulls with outriggers. This forms a kind of contradiction that may or may not be just my mind being crazy. Given the state of my mind, you're probably safe.[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 24, 2003, 10:36:47 am
Hmm...guess will see...

Alltough you do have a point. The problem with this design is not in the design itself, but in the fact that it remins of WW2 battleships, which are small compared to FS2 ships, so you kinda get a feeling of smallness. tragicly, neither WW2 battleship, nor this one are small....

If it looks good in game, I'm satesfied....:D
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 24, 2003, 10:42:21 am
[color=cc9900]I'd really have to be flying around it to get a good impression of what it 'feels' like in-game. So we'll see, I suppose :)[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 24, 2003, 03:53:39 pm
I couldn't wait...so I did the whole ship this afternoon. It looks impressive in-game.

(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/PalS1.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/PalS3.jpg)
(http://www.swooh.com/peon/Trashman/Pics/PalS4.jpg)

I was so buisy looking at the ship that a cruiser got me good...:D
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Liberator on December 24, 2003, 11:25:41 pm
Looks good, mostly whats been said already, but increase the angle of deflection on the lower hull some.  Bring it closer to 45 degrees.  Also, if you're going to have and uber-beam on the front or even a large one you might want to maybe give an indication of the ship being built around firing mechanisms for the beam.

It screams Frigate at me, mostly because it looks to big to be a Corvette and as far as I can tell it doesn't have a fighter bay, so it's not a destroyer.  So Frigate, definately Frigate.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Baron MacDoblin on December 25, 2003, 01:00:41 am
I'll concede that it looks a lot better in game mapped, IMHO. I'd still do a bit of chamfering on the hull - nothing major, mind you, just to take the edges off a little. Boxy is good, but I've yet to see any ship that really looks like a box (minus a Borg cube, and even that has its smoother points).

And I still think more visible missile launchers are in order :p
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Noise on December 25, 2003, 02:08:16 pm
As for designation, it screams battleship to me.  Frigates (FS2 at any rate) aren't much bigger than corvettes.  Calling it a battlecruiser brings about an image of a really mean cruiser, take the Aldo's GTWC Orc for example.  The Paladin is larger than a destroyer, but doesn't mount a fighter bay.  From what I've seen, it's all armour and guns, that means battleship, IMO that is.
Title: Awesome work..
Post by: Star Dragon on December 25, 2003, 07:07:07 pm
Two questions, do you HAVE to use open to use this or will it run in vanilla fs2? (I have your previous version that does)..

  and second, since you liek this kind of design, even consider doing other "space battleships"? like the Kariyu! Here are some beauty shots, you can never have too many weapons ;)

http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/5-5-1-1073688320?m=0&pg=4&ro=4&co=0

http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/5-4-4-1073688255?m=0&pg=4&ro=3&co=3

http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/5-5-2-1073688357?m=0&pg=4&ro=4&co=1

http://photo.starblvd.net/Star_Dragon/5-4-5-1073688285?m=0&pg=4&ro=3&co=4

  Sweet huh? l8tr..
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 25, 2003, 08:23:44 pm
Will you have to use Open for it? Hmmm....
It has overall 15 multi-part turrets, so I think you will need the version with upped limits at least....

Looks sweet...but I don't think I will be doing it...

As for the designation - Battlecruiser sounds good to me. The Iowa is the battleship and the Exfcalibur is the frigate, so those designations have allready been taken. It's FS who actually de-graded the term cruiser...hmmm...
Perhaps I could make the Iowa a heavy battleship..that would clear the designation for the paladin...well see

It doesn't have a uber-beam in front...just a normal BGreen.

More chamfering? I'm trying to make a playable ship here, not a 100000000poly model... Well..perhaps if I make a version of it for Freelancer....

Argh..I'm not sure myself...:p
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 25, 2003, 08:26:04 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
It's FS who actually de-graded the term cruiser...

[color=cc9900]That doesn't mean you need to confuse people by changing it back though.[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 25, 2003, 08:29:58 pm
no..I didn't..I just made a big difference between a cruiser and a battlecruiser..

Oh well...I'll probably name it a batttleship in the end...
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on December 25, 2003, 08:35:48 pm
[color=cc9900]Why not just call it a 'destroyer', though? I don't see why new ship classes have to be invented just because it doesn't have a fighter bay...[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 25, 2003, 09:07:45 pm
Coause it's too powerfull to be a destroyer.

Odyssey, you seem to have become my favorite critic!:D
It's good to know one is actually noticed....
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 26, 2003, 12:04:29 pm
Argh....why is this happening?

It's either something wrong with PCS, or with Modelview!!!

Tuurets are getting screwed up! I doublechecked the turrets, everything is in order - every part is properly named and the axis are o.k.

Once I edit the turret data in Pcs, I look at the ship in Modelview and I see that fireing points are all over the place.
For simple turrets they are o.k., but big turrets and missile launchers get completely mixed up.

The points for TurretMed01 swoh up below TurretMed03, the fire points for the missile launcher show up in the  centre of the ship..

What gives!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Noise on December 27, 2003, 05:40:56 pm
Murphy's Law, that's what.  Whatever can go wrong, will.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on December 27, 2003, 06:16:29 pm
Dang...this is the secons problem like this...alltough I moved the problem question to another thread...
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Havock on January 01, 2004, 01:35:24 pm
you can solve the engine problem by sticking up a couple of massive boosters on the sides of the ship, poiting 45 degress backwars or so.

*get up paint*

i think it should be something like this, open up front section to give the idea there is "something" there.

also, the lower part looks like a mere copy of the upper part, make i a bit shark-like.

it has the overall shape, it should look far more agressive, and looking at what you already did, that should not prove too difficult for you.
overall, good design, but a bit too "tame", *paint done*

how's this?

(http://members.lycos.nl/durandalarw/idee.JPG)
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on January 01, 2004, 03:52:17 pm
Nice!

Alltough I doubt I will use it.

1. The Cobra is the dedicated Big-gun-in-the-nose-badassship

2. The main turrets deliver most of the punishment

3. I don't see why some people think the engines are too small...the're big enough...ever heard of efficency?

Alltough I must say that design does intruige me a little...
Maby I even might try something like that..after I finish all the other ships
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Odyssey on January 01, 2004, 04:19:32 pm
[color=cc9900]The engines are too small. Of course there's something called efficiency, but let's put it this way - however much writing you put in a description explaining everything, it doesn't stop it looking wrong.[/color]
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: TrashMan on January 02, 2004, 06:52:20 am
It looks wrong in you eyes only.
I don't see no reason why engines on capship have to be half the size of a ship. Look at the engines on Vasudan ships...they're smaller than those on Terran ones.
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Shinobi on January 02, 2004, 07:18:23 am
They're supposed to have better reactors I think :p
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: aldo_14 on January 02, 2004, 07:26:03 am
Vasudan engines are built more into the hull, covered by the organic 'flow' of the hull.  Terran ships have a less organic, arty design and are more exposed.

Although I don't see a great size difference, anyways.

Quote
Originally posted by Noise
 Calling it a battlecruiser brings about an image of a really mean cruiser, take the Aldo's GTWC Orc for example.  The Paladin is larger than a destroyer, but doesn't mount a fighter bay.  From what I've seen, it's all armour and guns, that means battleship, IMO that is.


Which one?  There's three of the things, now..... :)

what about 'dreadnaught'? (Dn)
Title: Turreting dilema - big gun or misile launcher
Post by: Noise on January 02, 2004, 08:25:21 am
The GTWC Orc from the COW download, I modified it's weapons slightly to match weapons in my campaign.  Dreadnought is aptly fitting and used for Stratcomm's GTDn Archangel.  Now, there's a dreadnought if I every saw one.