Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: TopAce on December 23, 2003, 04:23:01 pm
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I don't know what can be wrong, as many versions I try to make HTL working crashes. They all crash at the same point: When a hi-poly model is loaded up. Low-poly models(under the polycount of 1000) load up correctly, no trouble. But it crashes when a model of more than 1000 polies should be loaded.
I have a GeForce 4 MXX440, with 64 Megs, no AA, OpenGL, Direct3D, any resolution, DirectX9.0.
Any of you ran into this problem before?
[EDIT] Damn .. I mistyped the thread title again. :D
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You are remembering the -htl flag I assume :D
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Yeah, it doesn't work with it. Neither without it. :(
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Which high poly models are you trying? Are they all your own or have then been tried with other computers?
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One of the models I tried to make work in my HTL version was tested by someone else.
I doubt this may be the problem.
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Catch me on ICQ and I'll send you something I know works. Then we'll definately know it isn't the model :) It's quite easy to change something and break FS2.
Have you had a look at the tables BTW? If you've changed them it might not be the model that's to blame.
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I really don't understand it.
It suddenly began to work.
FSO is as mysterious as the Ancients. At least for me :)
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Not the first instance I've heard of FS_Open suddenly start working. 'Tis in deed mysterious :)
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Not the first instance I've heard of FS_Open suddenly start working. 'Tis in deed mysterious :)[/B]
[color=cc9900]So long as it doesn't suddenly decide to stop working, we're all fine.[/color]
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Now you've gone and jinxed it
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[color=cc9900]Darn.[/color]
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I thought it is only me, for who FSO works berserk. :)
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Originally posted by TopAce
I thought it is only me, for who FSO works berserk. :)
I can confirm that as well as IceFire. Wing Commander Saga uses high poly models (around 1500-2000 polys at least) for capital ships and it has been reported that the game crashes in the tech room if the game has been started in htl mod. :(
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Yup...certain models seem to crash the game. Standard FS2 ships and BWO ships modeled to FS2 standards are fine....but some of the WC: Saga vessels are crashing big-time.
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because our models are high poly? (means over 1400 polys)
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probly becase your doing somehing weird in your moddeling (lots of textures, lots of submodels, lots of intersecting submodels, ect)
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Did you ever do that Debug build that told you which ship was causing problems with the Ships.tbl so I could carry on trying to hunt for this bug, I think the problems I am having are related to this, theres still seem to random crashes and my VRam is doing some really wierd things when FS2 Boots.
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Are the FS_open_d versions the debug ones? It is funny because I was working hard to make it work. And I failed to do that ;)
I donát think the polzcount may be the problem: The Star Wars model I tested was 3100 polies.
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Hmmm.... When the Debug wouldn't start, was it saying why?
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Originally posted by Bobboau
probly becase your doing somehing weird in your moddeling (lots of textures, lots of submodels, lots of intersecting submodels, ect)
the weird thing 'cause on some pcs the mod works, on some it crashes and on some it works, but awfully slow.
In non-htl mode the game works without problems (well, except the fact that the frame rate can no longer be considered playable and that on a Radeon 9700Pro)
as for the debug build: this is what it reports:
Assert: hull_percentage_of_hits > 0.0f
File: E:\Languages\Visual Studio Projects\Visual C++\fs2_open\code\Ship\Ship.cpp
Line: 2521
Call stack:
------------------------------------------------------------------
parse_shiptbl() ship_init() game_init() WinMainSub() WinMain() WinMainCRTStartup() kernel32.dll 77e814c7()
------------------------------------------------------------------
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I remember Flipside having exactly the same error message. IIRC the problem was to do with having subsystems which added up to more than 100% of the hull.
Have a look in this thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,19415.0.html) for more details.
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that was partially a problem, yes, but it doesn't keep the game from crashing :(
update: does somebody happen to have a tested htl model?
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but bob, I can't think of something worse than the SW corvette you saw sometimes ago, she got around 10k polys into 50 heavily intersecting submodels...
btw, I have this kind of problems with the fenris I'm building, I consider she as a stress test for fso, but it seem the test is failing. Working with tons of submodels can reduce the pcount of around 30% (wich is a lot), but it doesn't seem that fso like this way of working. The model is loaded fine into the tech room, but in the missions after few seconds the game crash. It could be the 7200 polylimit x subobject reported by (iirc) flipside, but personally I think the problem is the amount of submodels (althought being the same subobject)...not much a problem, since I have a "solid" version too, but I'll have to polyreduce really a lot before releasing the model:/
anyway I'll try to investigate more to isolate the cause of the prob
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So will I. I have a few theories, although most of them are quite weird ;) We'll see.
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I have a model with about 1500 polys (untriangulated) in a single subobject that works fine.
Omniscapers Star Trek models sound like they are working though so it might be worth trying them.
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Hmmmm.... Well, we both get exactly the same error from debug and they both crash after a few minutes. I've manually checked the tbl file and couldn't find the guilty ship, so I'm at a dead end :(
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Originally posted by karajorma
I have a model with about 1500 polys (untriangulated) in a single subobject that works fine.
Omniscapers Star Trek models sound like they are working though so it might be worth trying them.
yeah, but where do I get 'em?
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Here. (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1680)
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I think searching for errors in our mod could be much easier if we know what things could crash HTL.
So could anyone of the SCP team post a list of know problems that make HTL crash.
If we don't find any of these error in the mod, then we found something new.
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is it possible that DirectX 9.0 is the reason for this crash?
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ok, here are some more infos:
I have a simple mission with a fighter and 3 of these testing models
model1:
7300 triangles, triangulized model, 150 polygroups (!!!), 4 subobjects, some very minor intersections, one simple 256x256 texture tiled over all the mesh.
the model is loaded fine into techroom, but in the mission after few seconds the game crash and returns to desktop, with no error message.
It is not a table problem (the model is not pofedite, and I tested it replacing the fenris and the myrmiddon, crashing in both cases)
I made a mistake and converted the model without textures. In game you see no models (there is only radar signature and the distance shown in the hud is screwed).
That's strange, I remember that in fs2 you can see untextured models as semitransparent, but I suppose It is HTL related.
BTW, althought nothing was shown, the game crashes as before (it took just little more time to crash).
model2:
it is the same model, but I deleted some submodels.
around 5000 triangles, 75 polymodels, I removed MOST but not all of the intersecting submodels, all those with the worse intersections anyway.
it worked flawlessy.
Now, I have 4 hypotesis
1- the crash was caused by the number of submodels
2-the crash was caused by intersections
3-the crash was caused by something wrong with the specific submodels I deleted
4-the crash was caused by pcount
Considering that I got in the past a 10k poly ship with the worst intersections you can imagine working flawlessy in game, I tend to avoid the second and the fourth hypotesis.
I'll try to restore those submodels, deleting some others: if the game will crash the problem is something related to those submodels, either the intersections or something else, if the game will not crash, it will definitively be something related to the number of submodels you can have, or the number of polys into submodels, or something like that.
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Well, I've had 1300 poly models with no intersections and which work in Vanilla FS2 still crash the SCP version :( I think it appears to be something to do with either Bitmaps (The thing often seems crash as a large explosion is taking place) Or I thought it might be Hires or textures, but the fact you used 256 x 256 PCX means it can't be that.
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test3
this is pretty interesting
5500 triangles, 104 submodels. I restored all the submodels I erased before, and deleted many others.
the model works flawlessy
therefore the problem is not related to specific submodels, nor to intersections.
A good hypotesis at this point is that fso can't work with more than a certain amount of submodels (note: submodels!=subobjects) or a certain amount of polys in submodels. I'll try to find the exact number of submodels or of polys than cause the crash, and then make some further tests to verify this
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But I have made a little tiny step forward. I used my existing mesh, and deleted every subobject (with lights and axis), but kept the turret-podests, after converting there is only one main-object left.
This model can be at least be viewed in the techroom, using the newest SCP-build. But loading a mission containing it, instantly crashes (there is not even the load-screen appearing).
Using the models with turrets etc, already crashes the techroom.
I could provide the model... if you are interested in testing with it.
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I think I have got it: I took a look at each vessel that crashes the game: Banshee, Ranger, Concordia, Vesuvius, Dragon, etc. They all use a large number of texture maps, at least a dozen of them. My guess is that htl is not capable of handling a lot of small maps. I remember, that Bob advised to keep the number of texture maps low and use large sized textures instead.
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iirc the limit was 18 or probably less, check the first pages of the stickyed thread in the modding forum "rejoice modellers.."
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I'm not sure it's texture numbers or size, my models tend to use a single 2048 x 2048 map (The limit is from the GCard, not SCP). I know it's not 32Bit cos this thing has been happening on and off since before the 32Bit version came out. I really do need to find out what is wrong with my Ships.tbl and see if I can get the debug version to run :(