Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Hamano on January 05, 2004, 08:16:00 am
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Orion Phase 2 is now in-game testing!
However,
- Not yet full turretted.
- Not yet done other LODs and debris.
- Not yet done paths.
- Not yet done engine glow.
- Not yet .......
Many things to do remain.
Images:
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test01.jpg)
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test02.jpg)
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test03.jpg)
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Great work as usual man! Congrats :)
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Now see, THAT is how you update an Orion and make it look good. You other "Orion Update" makers take note.
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I found that targetting blacket is placed in bad position....
I have to use dummy sub object to correct....??
Hmmm....
The way is long and winding.
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akema****e omedetô, hamano :)
Did you break it into subobjects? If yo did, make sure the main one reaches all the extremities of the ship, coz the bounding box will fit that.
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The ONE thing I would suggest is, could you make that "revolver" up front, like, one super-powerful beam or something?
Anyways, it's still spectacular work, good job! :yes:
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Good work, I've been waiting on this one for ages :). Do you have any shots of the beam cluster thingy firing?
Shinobi
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
The ONE thing I would suggest is, could you make that "revolver" up front, like, one super-powerful beam or something?
Anyways, it's still spectacular work, good job! :yes:
No, it's something like 7 beams together. If they all fire at the same target, it's the same, tho, I suppose.
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very cool:yes:
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The model is great, not 100% certain on the texture for the front gun thing, but great work nonetheless :)
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Would look great without the stupid chaingun. :)
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Thanks Nico,
I broke mainhull into 4 subobjects.
The blacket looks only covers center subobject.
I will try to change these subobjects.
And...Japanese new year greetings.
Akemasite omedetou gozaimasu.
Kotoshi mo yoroshiku onegai shimasu.
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That thing kicks ass
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Hamano, if you want to use the fewest possible polygons (6), simply make a box around the model with the invisible texture. A very similar trick is used with the Triton transport, so that you get a bounding box around the container as well as the transport. All you have to do is remember to set the "no collide invisible" flag in the ships.tbl entry.
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Not that the bounding box is annoying there, it's centered and all, actually, I think it's nice the way it is right now.
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i love thosae cluster cannons :)
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Thanks StratComm.
Targetting blacket issue solved.
I placed dummy 4 cubes at front end, rear end, and left and right.
These cubes are painted with invisible, and placed inside of hull.
So flags not required.
New Images: Fire!
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test05.jpg)
Close-up forward beam cluster:
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test04.jpg)
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I take it it's meant for killing things. :drevil:
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Originally posted by mikhael
Now see, THAT is how you update an Orion and make it look good. You other "Orion Update" makers take note.
What!? You're saying mine sucks?
*polishes sword*
HAMANO - Kick ass work!:yes:
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i like it
where is the nearlest Sathanas lets kick his red ass with those 7 beams;) :yes:
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Woo, baby! Looking rather good, that. Excellent work, Hamano! :):yes:
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Originally posted by TrashMan
What!? You're saying mine sucks?
Those wouldn't be how I put it, but that's the basic idea. Yours isn't bad, its just not good either. It doesn't show any progress, anything new. Hamano's design really takes the overall design somewhere new (it actually looks pretty good. the original just sucked ass). Or to sum it up:
Your's: more of the same.
Hamano's: new and interesting and different.
Winner: Hamano. Fatality. Flawless Victory.
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Originally posted by mikhael
Winner: Hamano. Fatality. Flawless Victory.
"Toasty!!!"
Hem, sorry, got carried away.
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Scrap the clusters and replace them with single beam cannons armed with LRBGreens.
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Nah. Then it's just a different-shaped Colossus. And we all know what happens then....
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just awesome :) :yes:
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Nah. Then it's just a different-shaped Colossus. And we all know what happens then....
Except it's not an ugly piece of **** like the Colossus.
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Yeah but the cluster thing is cool, the LRBG is not.
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I think the cluster thing is stupid, and spreading the beam cannons across the sides of the hull would be a much better idea. You either have one big beam cannon, or multiple small ones spread out. The cluster beam reduces the cannons' effectiveness by limiting their field of fire. Plus it looks weird and like something from a silly anime.
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Why is it always te minority opinion that shouts the loudest? :lol:
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I dunno, but we can certainly outweigh it with enough posts to the contrary. Silence Woolie! :D
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Sathanas has few beams than the Collosus doesn't it? But it ownz the Collosus.....because of frontal beams.
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Plus I think this way isn't that stupid. make them slashers, and after a few seconds, hop! the target has lost all its turrets :D
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Name it the Orion Double Alpha or something. :D
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Originally posted by Nico
Plus I think this way isn't that stupid. make them slashers, and after a few seconds, hop! the target has lost all its turrets :D
I still think that if you want a bunch of small beams, you should spread them across the hull. A row of seven slashers instead of a cluster of them could strip away turrets all over the enemy's hull in seconds.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I think the cluster thing is stupid, and spreading the beam cannons across the sides of the hull would be a much better idea. You either have one big beam cannon, or multiple small ones spread out. The cluster beam reduces the cannons' effectiveness by limiting their field of fire. Plus it looks weird and like something from a silly anime.
Right, and balancing them across the hull isn't like the Colossus at all. Cause' you know.. heh heh , the Colossus lost to a frontal attack from a Sathanas, heh heh, it's gay.
Originally posted by Raa
Why is it always te minority opinion that shouts the loudest?:lol:
I think it's more or less been narrowed down to Woolie. :p
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You haven't had much experience with the Sathanas and Ravana. Put a Colossus behind a Sathanas and deploy some bombers to attack the main beams and the Sath is dog meat. Put an Orion or Hatshepsut behind a Ravana and it's definitely toast, bombers or no bombers.
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umm... where you going somewhere with this?
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cool model!!
One question tho, are those SGreens on the frontal turret or...?
maybe put in some Vasudan beams and it'll look a bit more...different lol ;), if a bit silly :)
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It's deffiantly an 'Intresting' design.
The only flaw (no fault of yours Hamano) is that, in my experiance, the game will only allow four turrets to fire on a target at once.
Still, great work!
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
I still think that if you want a bunch of small beams, you should spread them across the hull. A row of seven slashers instead of a cluster of them could strip away turrets all over the enemy's hull in seconds.
ever heard of "it's better to focus all your attention on a single target, one at a time?".
And I see the benefits of having multiple smaller beams rather than a big one. In fact that ship makes me think than one big beam is never as good as the same number of smaller beams that, together, deal the same amount of damage.
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Welcome to the highlights, Hamano. :)
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It's his design, so he's free to do what he wants with it, but It'd strike me that logically, multiple beams should be spread out, if only to prevent a single helios equivalent Shivan bomb from taking out 90% of a ships fighting power. Admittedly, if the enemy's firing helioses, you're in trouble anyway, but surely the ability to take seven shots and keep kicking would be better than only taking one.
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Well, to me it doesn't seem that those 7 beams are the only ones on the ship, so what are you rambling about anyway?
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Thank you for many replies.
Orion Phase 2 has 3 beam clusters.
One is placed front, others placed left and right.
Even if front one is destroyed, still side clusters can fire.
Beam cluster is based on an idea, "Built with technology we already have".
It is made by gathering existing beam cannons instaed of developping new big beam cannon.
Orion Phase 2 is an upgrade remodeling ship, so this idea is suitable than placing new big weapon.
New big weapon will be placed on newly developped destroyer.
I will put Mjornirbeam#home or Mjornirbeam into beam clusters.
Images of the day: Side beam cluster
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test06.jpg)
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test07.jpg)
I think this firing is cool! and engine glows done.
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test08.jpg)
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3 clusters? Lol, way to go :D:yes:
The reason makes sense, but with something like that, would be cool to have large heat radiators next to them :)
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
You haven't had much experience with the Sathanas and Ravana. Put a Colossus behind a Sathanas and deploy some bombers to attack the main beams and the Sath is dog meat. Put an Orion or Hatshepsut behind a Ravana and it's definitely toast, bombers or no bombers.
You could do the same with a group of Levi's ... whats your point?
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you could also reply:
Put a Sathanas behind a Colossus, don't even bother deploying bombers and whatnot, and the colossus is dog meat. Or to put even more shame, put the Sathanas right in front of the Colossus ( and the Colossus will go and ram it, wheeeeeeeeeee! ) :p
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Very nice work you got there, Hamano-san! :yes:
And from that perspective shot with the Ravana, it looks like it's got a sizable engine array. How fast is it, compared to the original Orion?
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Originally posted by Nico
you could also reply:
Put a Sathanas behind a Colossus, don't even bother deploying bombers and whatnot, and the colossus is dog meat. Or to put even more shame, put the Sathanas right in front of the Colossus ( and the Colossus will go and ram it, wheeeeeeeeeee! ) :p
Yeah, but the Sath can't expect to be facing the enemy every time. A good ship should have it's armament, especially anti-fighter armament, spread out. ESPECIALLY anti-fighter weapons. Try bombing a Colossus and you'll see the advantages of spread-out weapons. There's no escape.:devil:
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Woolie, give it up. You're making very little sense... the Colossus was the biggest hunk of junk in the entire Freespace saga.
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Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Yeah, but the Sath can't expect to be facing the enemy every time. A good ship should have it's armament, especially anti-fighter armament, spread out. ESPECIALLY anti-fighter weapons. Try bombing a Colossus and you'll see the advantages of spread-out weapons. There's no escape.:devil:
Yup, especially antifighter, ok. Those are anticapship beams, right?
Right.
To kill a capship, you need to have as much power as possible focused on one point. Right?
Right.
So, what's the pb with that ship? :D
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One would think that it is obvious that the beam clusters on Hamano's O2 aren't for taking down fighters.
One might also think that Hamano's THREE beam clusters make it obvious that he gave consideration to the idea that attacks come from all angles.
One must consider that Wollie is just looking for thinks to ***** and whine about, however, and dismiss the other facts.
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Originally posted by mikhael
One must consider that Wollie is just looking for thinks to ***** and whine about, however, and dismiss the other facts.
Phallic!
:D
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Those beam clusters look mental......I like it!
The one big advantage the Sath has over the Colossus is it's focused firepower. That was the first thing I noticed when I saw High Noon. (or whatever the face off mission was called)
Even broadside from the C. is a little under-whelming.
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Anyway, I might put it in Starforce after editing the beam clusters to turn them into single huge beam cannons designed to melt a planet's surface (or blast a destroyer to smithereens) in one blast and retexturing it to fit the Microsol Consortium style. The Olemus' front beam turrets look a bit too small for the enormous main beams. And it appears to be just the right size--3-4 kilometers in length.
I could even just keep the multiple barrels and use some techroom technobabble to pass them off as multiple emitters whose shots are focused into a single antimatter beam in the center.
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Mate, I am SO getting this when you've finished it!
You ROCK! :D
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Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Phallic!
:D
good timing, most excellent :D
there, a coockie for you :)
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I WANNA SEE GIGAS VERSUS ORION MK II!
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Originally posted by LLivingLarge
I WANNA SEE GIGAS VERSUS ORION MK II!
Nah, you do it wrong, let me show you:
TEh GIGAS IT OWNZ THAT YOU FARTZ!!!!111111ONE
Yeah, that's more like it.
Personaly I wanna see an anubis versus a ravana. :doubt:
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I like those beam Clusters very cool:)
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I think the front gun is a terrible idea. Its overwhelming resemblance to the A-10's front gun has the inescapable psychological effect of making the entire model seem smaller. It's really weird-- I can look at the model while covering up the gun with my hand, and it seems huge... but as soon as I remove my hand, it just looks like a freaky fighter.
Plus, as pointed out, it's tactically ridiculous. Aside from being an "all your eggs in one basket" approach to turret placement, the heat-dissipation requirements of a cluster like that would be absolutely insane.
IMHO, a better approach would be to have the front of the ship be a large central power core column, with armored emitter pods spaced equidistantly around it.
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Ah, after Woollie, Zylon.
How surprising :p
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If an ad hominem defense of that gun is the best you can manage, I think that speaks for itself.
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well what type of beams are on the front anyway?
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
If an ad hominem defense of that gun is the best you can manage, I think that speaks for itself.
I think a whole thread of argument before you poped up is WAY enough to defend it, not gonna start again coz you're late :doubt:
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SSreens should be. BGreens are to powerful for destroyer in one turret and side.
If I want to see this ship in hard combat let he take Sathanas:D
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Originally posted by Sheepy
well what type of beams are on the front anyway?
MjolnirBeam#Home
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Originally posted by c914
SSreens should be. BGreens are to powerful for destroyer in one turret and side.
If I want to see this ship in hard combat let he take Sathanas:D
And two :doubt:
It's a destroyer, there's no way it should be able to take on a sathanas. Well unless it's a destroyer from inferno, that is...
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First, WHEN are we gonna get Phase II? I've been drooling over the original pics of it on Hamano's page for months!
Next, does the heat sink stuff REALLY matter? Isn't space the ulitmate cooler/heat dissapater?
I mean with THAT much of the weapon exposed to naked space don't you think it would be cooled rather quickly from that configuration?
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Originally posted by Star Dragon
Next, does the heat sink stuff REALLY matter? Isn't space the ulitmate cooler/heat dissapater?
I mean with THAT much of the weapon exposed to naked space don't you think it would be cooled rather quickly from that configuration?
Space is actually quite a crap heat sink. Yeah it's cold out there but there is no heat loss through convection or conduction leaving only radiation.
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Originally posted by Nico
And two :doubt:
It's a destroyer, there's no way it should be able to take on a sathanas. Well unless it's a destroyer from inferno, that is...
Only the Apothess can take out a Sathanas, and that's only because the Apothess can hit targets far, far, far away.
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Originally posted by Nico
I think a whole thread of argument before you poped up is WAY enough to defend it, not gonna start again coz you're late :doubt:
"It looks cool who carez if it doesnt make sense!" is about the extent of the defense I've seen.
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Well deal with it?
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well as far as i can tell your the only one who has the opinion of the gun makes it look small, is there any other reason you dont like it?
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Originally posted by Sheepy
well as far as i can tell your the only one who has the opinion of the gun makes it look small, is there any other reason you dont like it?
It could do without the Gannett. I don't like them... they wet their nests.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
"It looks cool who carez if it doesnt make sense!" is about the extent of the defense I've seen.
And that about covers it. Last I checked, the game doesn't have any system for managing heat, etc. Sure, you can make some commentary about how it must be this way or that, etc.
The simple fact of the matter is that you're looking for someting to ***** and whine about, like Woolie. If you don't like it, don't use it. No one is forcing you. Really. I won't hold a gun to your head--no matter how much some people might pay me to do so.
You might even comment that you're just providing constructive criticism. Unfortunately, its not terribly constructive, nor is it very critical. Its mostly "OMG IT IS TEH A10!!!!11!!1".
Is there nothing else in KY for you to do? (in preemptive response: no, there's nothing in NC for me to do. If there were, do you think I'd be here?)
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I think Hamano should drop the Orion mk2 tag. The ship deserves it's own identity, and I'm not big on Orion textures.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
"It looks cool who carez if it doesnt make sense!" is about the extent of the defense I've seen.
That's because it's a game
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I personaly think that the clustered beams are cleaver. But i think that if people are going to cluster big beams like this then all the other turrets should be pin point defence and fighter supresion. and orian skins can look good if used correctly. like this has been
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I liked that reskinned Orion that is/was on the downloads section.
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The best approach would be to have beam cannons in armoured turrets (like a WW2 battleship) spread across it's lenghth on both top and bottom. Add a few more turrets on the side and you get a ship that can focus approx 60% of it's firepower at any point in space.
If it preforms the T crossing manoufer, then it can focus up to 80-90% (depending on the design)
Now you see why my Iowa can take out 3 Saths!:D
EDIT: I personally like the A10 very much... Alltough the cluster approach is interesting, it's far more easier to take out several beams with one good placed bomb (the blast/shochwawe/explosion will damage/destroy all of them when they are so close)
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'cxept it was suggested to replace it with one big beam :doubt. one bomb kills one big beam as easily than a cluster. if you're lucky, you mlight even have one or two left, or even much more, depending on the size of the thing, in fact.
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put a nice arangment of flak and aaa beams around them ... sorted.
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
"It looks cool who carez if it doesnt make sense!" is about the extent of the defense I've seen.
That's kind of the case with most scifi :P
Anyway, I assume this ship is meant as the center of a battlegroup, with Hecates and Deimoses to cover its flanks while it punches through the enemy lines. There really wouldn't be any better use for it, IMHO.
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and Fighter support ofcourse.
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looks to me like some kind of dreadnought, used to smash up/through node denfeses so the rest of the battle group can get through relativly unharmed.
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Originally posted by Nico
Personaly I wanna see an anubis versus a ravana. :doubt:
Gah, I can't believe I'm actually laughing out loud at this. :p
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That's because it's me :D
If you could ask my friends, they'd confirm: it's the dumbest things I say that makes them laught the most :p
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I hate to be anal, but I don't like how the original Orion model is quite clearly unmodified beneath the add-ons. Primarily I'm talking about where the new frontal projection intersects the classic Orion sloped front - IMHO it would look much better had the sloped front been modified to support and complement the add-on.
And as for the clusterf-err... clusterbeams... I dunno. While the Sath had primarily frontal coverage, the beams were also spaced apart, and as we all know faaar too well, they could not be damaged more than one at a time.
On the other hand, concentration of firepower is a Good Thing™. This just combines the advantage of that with the disadvantage of a concentrated weakness, too. Which can be seen either in negative light (stupid design by the engineers) or a positive one (playbalancing).
Personally, I now like beam turrets as massive multipart turrets, not as hull-hugging hexagons. Yeah, you can argue that they use some sort of energy field to direct the beam fire at the target, but IMHO it just looks far more ominous when you see a big ponderous Mjolnir-like turret actually rotating towards its target in preperation to fire.
Anyway, back to the Orion Phase II... another bit of constructive criticism I have is that the smoothed-out frontal hull section looks out of place. Either it should be as angular as the rest of the ship, or there should be more smoothed out sections scattered where appropriate.
Oh yes. Symmetry. That was, IMO, the primary "cool" factor of the original Orion - it was fairly drastically assymetric. So personally I don't find the Orion remakes that duplicate the starboard structure to port very attractive or original. Sure, there should be a structure on the port side, but make it drastically different from the starboard one.
Hope this has been at least as constructive as it has been critical. :)
Originally posted by StratComm
Woolie, give it up. You're making very little sense... the Colossus was the biggest hunk of junk in the entire Freespace saga.
Hehehe - just wait until I prove how wrong you are. :D ;7
Originally posted by Nico
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Phallic!
:D
good timing, most excellent :D
there, a coockie for you :)[/B]
A "coockie"?? Was that intentional?? :lol:
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JC Denton,
Scale of hull of Orion Phase 2 is about twice of original Orion destroyer.
So mass of hull is also twice.
I added 2 engines for propulsion and beam weapons.
Finally, speed and mobility of Orion Phase 2 is almost same as original orion.
However, this may be changed.
Rear-bottom view:
(http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/TEMP/orion2test09.jpg)
I placed big weapon at Orion Phase 2's front, this big gun has two roles.
One is for defeating Shivan warships, of course.
Another is, making difference from original Orion design.
If you felt that Orion Phase 2 is very different from the original,
and if you felt that "what a big gun!"(cool or stupid),
I think my design is successful.
Positive, even negative response enpower my creative motivation.
Thank you for many replies.
I am very happy.
...and, what is phallic? cookie?
I can not understand because I am not native english speaker.
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It's a joke, there.
Means it looks like human genitals. That's a critics you'll see often here.
In this case, tho, Raa was making a joke ( he didn't mean you ship looks that way ;) ), and cookies, you know, the little biscuits with chocolate bits? We hand those...
ah, hargh, someone else, explain, coz I can't :p
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Release, please. The community at large has been highly anticipating it.
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One of the best ships I have ever seen!
Phallic is actually greek, from "Phalos" which is what men have between their legs that is getting really hard at the sight of a beautiful, willing, woman.
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Originally posted by Nico
It's a joke, there.
Means it looks like human genitals. That's a critics you'll see often here.
In this case, tho, Raa was making a joke ( he didn't mean you ship looks that way ;) ), and cookies, you know, the little biscuits with chocolate bits? We hand those...
ah, hargh, someone else, explain, coz I can't :p
Makes perfect sense. Don't worry. :p
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Oh, I see, I think it is a word used like such as f**k.(?)
Anyway, I don't investigate about this further.
Thanks.(;^_^)
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Originally posted by Hamano
Oh, I see, I think it is a word used like such as f**k.(?)
Anyway, I don't investigate about this further.
Thanks.(;^_^)
It's not worth worrying about, but it wasn't intended as a swear word. It's more a description of the shape. But yeah, just forget about it, you're not missing out. ;)
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Making other LODs and debris are done!
Orion Phase 2 geometry fixed!
...However, I encountered an odd issue.
Order of LODs is assigned in bad order as follows.
LOD0 : OK, No problem
LOD1 : subobject named "detail3"
LOD2 : subobject named "detail2" (This is OK)
LOD3 : subobject named "detail1"
Debris: OK
I changed names of subobject under trueSpace5 (exchange detail3 and detail1),
problem not solved.
Finally, I editted directly OHDR chunk by binary editor, and managed to solve this.
I used PCS version 1.3.4, no problem found during making Herc3 POF file.
Why PCS assigns bad LODs objects?
Though problem is solved, if someone knows cause, please let me know.
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it is due to their order in TS hierachy
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Originally posted by StratComm
I can guess what it is without even looking at the model. It turns out the number after "Detail" in the subobject name doesn't matter. What does matter is that each lower LOD is glued on to the main object in order of LOD level. In other words, glue LOD2 on first, then LOD 3, and lastly LOD4. Trueview doesn't show when this has been done wrong, and it can be a real pain to figure out what exactly is wrong.
Just thought I'd say it again :)
Though kudo's on fixing it through binary... I would have just put the model aside if I didn't know how to solve it.
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Yeah. That's a pretty hardcore solution to the problem :) Simply remove the LODS using Trueview and then stick them back in place in the correct order and that will be the end of the problem :)
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I believed that PCS assigns LODs by naming of subobjects such as "detail1", "detail2".
But it didn't.
I confirmed that PCS assigns LODs by glued order.
Grouping tool shows every objects sorted by alphabetically order.
Because of this, I could not found cause related order of glueing.
Thanks KARMA, StratComm, and Karajorma.
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this model is great, but yeah, could we have at least a separate version with the forward gatling gun thing removed???
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I am going to release this with forward beam cluster (gatling gun thing).
This will not be removed at first release.
However, if many people want a variation without forward beam cluster,
I will make a variation of Orion phsse 2 without forward beam cluster.
I will put another one big beam weapon at position of forward beam cluster.
Design around this will be changed.
If you are person who wants Orion phase 2 without forward beam cluster,
please write this thread or email me.
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i think its just fine as it is, but a second varient would be great also :nod:
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Originally posted by Hamano
I am going to release this with forward beam cluster (gatling gun thing).
This will not be removed at first release.
However, if many people want a variation without forward beam cluster,
I will make a variation of Orion phsse 2 without forward beam cluster.
I will put another one big beam weapon at position of forward beam cluster.
Design around this will be changed.
If you are person who wants Orion phase 2 without forward beam cluster,
please write this thread or email me.
I'm want it without the beam cluster, so count me in.