Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Omniscaper on January 07, 2004, 12:07:52 pm
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http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~bridgecommander/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13611
High res versions:
http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=17158#post17158
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Whoa, messy. If only it wasn't startrek...
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RRRRRRRGG!!!
>=p
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http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/screen00.jpg
http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/screen07.jpg
http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/screen05.jpg
http://www.penguinbomb.com/omniscaper/Screenshots/screen10.jpg
Ooooww! Eeeew! Freaking WOW!
:eek: :eek2: :eek:
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sue me :D
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Holy damn just amazing:eek2: :D
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well I don't like that much excessive beam fests, but it's surely a big show.
I'd be curious to know how many polys were in game:)
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Is there a stats option like the FPS that will showtotal screen polygon count? I put a picture of the Fred scenario in the High res link.
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UGH!
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Nice showpiece certainly, but obviously overkill for an actual in game set-up, you're pulling around 12 fps at some point..... jerky! :( Still the models look really good, which was the intent of the scenario I feel ;)
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(http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~bridgecommander/phpBB/files/screen08_820.jpg)
This shouldn't be happening within the rules of Star Trek. Omni, you had mentioned trying to narrow the field of fire of each turret on a strip so that more than one won't fire on the same target, but that doesn't stop those multiple turrets from firing on multiple targets simultaneously. I was worried about this, so I suggested that you combine as many turrets as possible on a strip into a single turret entry, like the deck guns on the Orion, or the heavy turret on the Faustus. I had thought the way to go would be to bond all 12 or so (in the case of the largets phaser strips) turrets into a single entry, but I have since recalled that FRED can only display 5 or so banks for a single turret AI, so you may have to split those big strips into 3 or so with 4 banks each, but it should cut down on this sort of thing.
One another note, I've got a question for you. For the Dominion weapon, which sound have you chosen to use? Are you using the same sound that was used as far as "Starship Down" (or possible the 2parter when the Dominion allies with the Cardies), or the one used starting with "A Call to Arms"?
Later!
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Uh.. there's been plenty of times when more than one phaser shot has come off a strip. Watch.. uh.. Voyager. Maybe not so many, but it's happened.
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His pb is that they don't all fire at the same target, I think.
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soo much combat....I love it
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and I'll bet each screenshot is a frame 'cuz it ran so slow
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Uh.. there's been plenty of times when more than one phaser shot has come off a strip. Watch.. uh.. Voyager. Maybe not so many, but it's happened.
Give me a reference, and I'll look it up. I've got the entire Voyager series on tape.
One minor concession however. I do recall one TNG episode, where the entire crew had their memory wiped of who they were, and an imposter Executive officer was added in. False data was added to the computer telling them they were at war with a genocidal species. They were to make an attack on this species' main command & control facility and as they approached, some small, unmanned interceptor drones came at them. Firing from the ventral array, several beams are seen firing off the strip, but they are extremely short duration so in fact they're each firing one at a time, but in very rapid succession. The small targets didn't have shields, so very minimal energy would be needed to destroy them, which means that each shot was of minimal drain on the phaser bank, virtually eliminating recharge time between shots. By this logic, I conclude that even in this instance, only one shot was being fired at a time.
On another note, I was just looking at FRED, and it seems that there is only enough space in the ships weapons editor for 3 primaries and 4 secondaries. Perhaps this is something the coders could change, but I already know they despise making changes to FRED, so it won't be any time soon. In any case, this would mean that a phaser strip with 12 turrets would need to be converted into 4 turrets with 3 firepoints each. Oh well.
Later!
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The beam thing is actually impossible to change correctly with turret aiming constraints. I can't be bothered to find the info, but its been dicussed thoroughly on the Starshatter forum. (SS is a game in beta, for those who don't know). According to most reliable sources, all phaser strips are arrays of individual emitters, each with its own capacitor, and each able to fire on its own. Although the TNG technical manual doesn't fall into the ST cannon, I shall note here that it mentions 200 emitters for the Galaxy 'main array', which I think may refer to either or both saucer arrays. It's not entirely clear to me why they channel their power into a single beam rather than firing all of the emitters at once, but clearly that is what we see. So, technically, what you want is at least several turrets per strip, which, when one fires, causes any others firing on the same ship (subsystem?) to fire invisibly, and with no visible damage or shield effects. There are some variations on how you could do this, but I'm no FS modder, so I don't know what the best way would be.
Either way, you want only one shot per ship, and you want damage to be accounted for properly. As to preventing a ship from firing on too many targets at once, that would probably require some sort of AI script telling ships to concentrate many beams on large ships and shoot individual beams at fighters. The rest is taken care of by a good beam cooldown value.
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Give me a reference, and I'll look it up. I've got the entire Voyager series on tape.
Off the top of my head.. the one where voyager lands on that planet and wakes up the people and they have the little fighter ships. I think they do it there maybe. If not.. pretty much watch anything in the last two seasons.. it's bound to be there somewhere.
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what about the episode where they encounter the ship that shoots at them?
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i'm sure there's only one of those :rolleyes:
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I counted at least four.
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Didn't expect a Trek debate, but all is good. The purpose of presenting this mess of a skirmish is to show that FS2:SCP survived a beam freed battle between 60+ ships with a minimum of 5k and max of 17k polygons each. I expected a beam fest, but not of this magnitude. But this is just an experiment. Hell, the Galors don't even have turrets yet and all ships I made invulnerable.
The Defiant and Jemhadar Fighters behave MUCH better with the playable "bomber" AI rather than the static "fly in circles" AI with the "cruiser" flag.
I seem to have a sound loop problem with fighter beams. I have the beams to consume 20% power/sec so that they can't fire longer than 3 sec bursts. The moment they empty their energy, the sound glitches and keeps playing the loop till they fire again. Any suggestions anyone?
Ok, Trivial Psychic. I hate to give up "canon" ideals for practical ones, but this skirmish proves that your turreting method would be best for this situation, when there are multiple targets. As you can see it became madness!!
For one on one battles, my method of lowered FOV is usefull when its set between 1-10 and the beam range set between 500-1000. Anyhigher and the FOV's would start converging and multiple turrets would fire again.
I just don't want to lose the sectional damage one could inflict on a phaser arc. It looks good.
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Originally posted by Knight Templar
Off the top of my head.. the one where voyager lands on that planet and wakes up the people and they have the little fighter ships. I think they do it there maybe. If not.. pretty much watch anything in the last two seasons.. it's bound to be there somewhere.
That would be "Dragon's Teeth", season 6, Ep 7. I'll give a look tomorrow night to either confirm or shoot down my own theory.
Later!
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Originally posted by Alan Bolte
I've read (in the DITL website) that the phasers are set up in strips so each unit can add its power to the others. They can link their collective power into one single beam, or fire invidually.
Link: http://www.ditl.org/
Guy has too much free time on his hands....
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omni, photoshop has a batch conversion tool (I was reading the bc boards), you just have to create a new action and then to create the batch operation (there is a command under "file" menu on tool bar). It is a bit tricky but it is also powerful (it is designed for complex operations, but can be used for those needs too)
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
(http://dynamic3.gamespy.com/~bridgecommander/phpBB/files/screen08_820.jpg)
Nice. Ouch, but nice. ;)
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Whoa... KOOL!!! I'll try it out.
New Releases::
DefiantV2 - playable and returreted
Jemhadar Fighter - playable
http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1680
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Sorry for me interrupting and my following newbish comment and question.
But:
Is it possible to make one huge turret instead of many little?
I think this way:
You could make a turret that has the shape of the phaser emitter
(I'm no Trekkie so please forgive me if it is the wrong term)
That would mean, the turret would "rotate" to its target and fire one single beam.
Is that possible?
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Heres the deal with that.
That was my first thought with phaser turreting. But, ou can forget rotations with saucers that are oval shaped. I'm not aware of any turreting process that allows rotation via that kind of ellipse.
I've originally made the arcs as one turret with multiple firing points, 5 for each saucer arc (galaxy). When you target the arc, you get this huge targeting square that envelops the entire saucer. The targeting reticle is dead center of that square, no where near the arc. So I scratched that process.
With the sectional turreting you can at least target specific points on the arc. I'm still messing around with field of view for each turret so that multiple firing is not so obvious.
Main reason: Damage textures. If you target a specific point, you damage that specific point. Its that vs the entire arc blowing itself out with damage textures, when you shot at a tiny point.
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Omni im going to go absolutely insane if i don't know what ship files you used for that. LOL. I've been trying to find the files you used for these things for quite some time but all star trek models seem to be strewn across the community and god knows which one is best >_<
im getting quite desperate.
your THE UNLEASHED thread on NodeWar is extremely confusing (the downloaded files contain data for more than one ship even though only one ship is included in each file)
can you just list off a bunch of links...that is, if these models exist anywhere other than your hard drive...(i cant find the constitution, miranda, etc.)
PLEASE???
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Just download the files in the order in which I released them, if you really want to play it safe. The only thing that really matters is that the textures/sounds/models are where they're supposed to be. Just follow each readme. Every ship download is compsed of more than just a VP file. I already made the subdirectories. Just extract the RAR file in a temp directory and place them to the corresponding places in the Freespace2 directory.
The only files that get overidden is the TBL files and damage textures.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
I've originally made the arcs as one turret with multiple firing points, 5 for each saucer arc (galaxy). When you target the arc, you get this huge targeting square that envelops the entire saucer. The targeting reticle is dead center of that square, no where near the arc. So I scratched that process.
I guess that was basically the same thing I was talking about. I never thought about the targeting box. Sorry.
Later!
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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
Give me a reference, and I'll look it up. I've got the entire Voyager series on tape.
Wow. Masochism indeed has many forms.
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:rolleyes:
Valid, but utterly, utterly pointless comment.........
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Bashing Voyager is never pointless.
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It's dead...let the corpse fester and decompose.
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Originally posted by Omniscaper
Heres the deal with that.
That was my first thought with phaser turreting. But, ou can forget rotations with saucers that are oval shaped. I'm not aware of any turreting process that allows rotation via that kind of ellipse.
I've originally made the arcs as one turret with multiple firing points, 5 for each saucer arc (galaxy). When you target the arc, you get this huge targeting square that envelops the entire saucer. The targeting reticle is dead center of that square, no where near the arc. So I scratched that process.
Main reason: Damage textures. If you target a specific point, you damage that specific point. Its that vs the entire arc blowing itself out with damage textures, when you shot at a tiny point.
So what's so strange about the whole phaser arc not working when you blast it?
Personally, I think that the single turret arc is a better idea.
And who cares about what a targeting reticle looks like, or how big it is...you can see tall the phaser arc on a ship clearly enough as it is...
EDIT: Voyager = load of crap!^^1000000*10000
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voyager...eh.....you may be right but
7 of 9 was a nice chick, always wearing an interesting suit, so.. what you need more than that?:p
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[color=66ff00]For those of you slating the work because it's Trek related; thanks for showing modders around here exactly how much their effort is appreciated. :blah
Who knows, a few more comments in that vein and maybe everyone will pack it in.
[/color]
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They are only bashing voyager. Even harcore trekkies do that :D
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Mmmm. Hardcore.
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Originally posted by karajorma
They are only bashing voyager. Even harcore trekkies do that :D
I liked Voyager, good series....but that maybe because it was the only trek series available on Indian telly for a long time. Before that was TNG, and way way before that was TOS. So yes, IMO, Voyager rules :)
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isn't that a bit like saying a Ford Escort rules 'cos you've never driven a Lambo ?:p
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More like saying a stealing pile of elephant dung is tasty because you've never eaten a steaming pile of tiger dung.
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LOL Why is it that Trek brings about much debate. I just watch Trek for battles and once in awhile the stories. Voyager is excellent entertainment when compared to the new Captain cheese beagle Trek. For the first time I really don't care for missing an episode.
In defense for Voyager, you gotta give it kudos for Borg content. They may have taken away their menacing edge, but you folks know you watched every Borg episode.
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holy **** thats awesome, keep them up :yes: