Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 09:45:09 am

Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 09:45:09 am: http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater/hiherc.zip

still in work, but good enough that you all should be sufficently impressed
this was posted in another thread, but I figured it deserved it's own thread
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Fineus on January 13, 2004, 10:32:10 am: Damn.. that's what I'm talking about! Upping to that level of detail alone is a good start - I don't even think more detail needs adding really - just some new textures...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 10:33:47 am: don't know if it work in game, and I looked at it only in modview, but you better check the way the to halfs are connected;) (the mirror tool of ts6 should fix it)
except this it's excellent (still don't like the side guns, thought)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 10:36:53 am: I tryed useing mirror, it didn't work very good, so I just stuck them togther so people can play with it.

btw you should be useing the fs1 maps (I recomend you rescale them to 512x512, the fs1 maps should be slightly larger than that)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 10:41:09 am: lemmetry...be back in some minutes
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: kasperl on January 13, 2004, 10:44:03 am: make screenies, please, i still haven't found the time to tinker enough to get FSO working.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Fineus on January 13, 2004, 10:54:25 am: It crashes my copy of FS2 - the game loads ok but if I try to view it in techroom or in mission, it quits to desktop.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Drew on January 13, 2004, 10:58:29 am: i tested it hearlyer and it looks awesome

ill have some screens in a few mins bob.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 11:00:11 am: probably it is due the problem above.
btw bob I found that the mirror doesn't work when there are disconnected submodels (ventral guns), probably it is this why you weren't able to use the mirror tool.
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/swfs2/wips/highherc.cob
edit: if the mirror lines aren't necessary for the uvmaps, you better cut em since they increase a bit the pcount.
Also, if you disconnect some bits here and there (splitting in few submodels) you should be able to save a lot of polys and have more room for extradetails.
Btw it isn't very necessary, since pcount isn't that high and it is already sweet
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Black Wolf on January 13, 2004, 11:01:41 am: From the top

FS2 Model, FS2 Texs

FS2 Model, FS1 Texs

Bobb's Model, FS1 Texs
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 11:04:20 am: well those were glued after I tried, try moveing some of the verts along the center line, you'll probly see there is quite a bit of weirdness going on, and I didn't want to deal with that

also this is for the HT&L capable FSO builds, it will crash stock FS (and most likely non-HTL mode FSO) undoubtedly, use the most up to date build.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 11:06:49 am: well in the cob I posted above I succesfully used the mirror, so the two halfs are now connected, and the line in the middle should be clean
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 11:10:06 am: btw where are the moderators? we need a new highlight;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Fineus on January 13, 2004, 11:14:02 am: Ah yes, I forgot to turn HTL on... it works fine now - I'll upload some shots when I get back from the bank.

Edit: Right, here we go...

(http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/hiherc/screen03.jpg)

http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/hiherc/techroom.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/hiherc/screen02.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/hiherc/screen05.jpg
http://www.zen8740.zen.co.uk/hiherc/screen08.jpg
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 11:32:10 am: Not too bad, Bob, but it barely looks different to me. Maybe I need to pull out my Herc1 model again.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Drew on January 13, 2004, 11:45:53 am: aww cmon mik, wait untill you see some real screens

HTL was on, thats why there are no shines

as usual, techroom first.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images\hpherc00.jpg)

check out what Bob did with the sides :D
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images\hpherc05.jpg)

worst screen i got, buy look what bob did with the fin.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images\hpherc08.jpg)

nice ass :D
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images\hpherc04.jpg)

see those scoops? theyr *inside* instead of flat.
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images\hpherc06.jpg)

bod did a great job sprucing it up :D now if somone can get those halves fixed
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Fineus on January 13, 2004, 11:51:05 am: Oh, and Highlighted ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 13, 2004, 12:51:37 pm: The Herc may not be all that different, but there's really not much you can do with such a blocky ship.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 13, 2004, 01:09:30 pm: The great thing is it uses the current texture mapping.

It's pretty easy to make really high-res textures for it this way... the thing that makes it looking like the old one is just the bad texture job :nod:

Once the model is done, i can texture it, if nobody else wants to do it ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Ashrak on January 13, 2004, 01:26:07 pm: niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 01:46:41 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Drew
aww cmon mik, wait untill you see some real screens

Actually, I think it looks pretty good. I'm not saying its bad or anything. Just that I like my version better. Admittedly, you can't use the old textures for it, but its got better detailing. It updates and details the original without straying TOO far from canon.

Oh, and I fixed your pics:
Quote

(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images/hpherc00.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images/hpherc05.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images/hpherc08.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images/hpherc04.jpg)
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ksickafoose/images/hpherc06.jpg)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Sandwich on January 13, 2004, 01:55:10 pm: Looks good so far, but IMHO it still needs to be intensively greebled according to the details the hi-res textures show.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Raptor on January 13, 2004, 02:00:32 pm: Nice. :yes:

Now add LODS, and it will be ready for use.

Oh, and Drew, do you have engines glows switched off or something?
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 02:10:44 pm: the fs1 textures are already high res btw, and it is stil in progress
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Raven2001 on January 13, 2004, 02:18:54 pm: Oh!! Bob into modelling again!!! Damn nice, just like I remember :)

How many polys???
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 13, 2004, 02:54:53 pm: one thousand eight hundred something

Quote
the fs1 textures are already high res btw, and it is stil in progress

not high-res enough for that model i'm afraid. Makes the new & shiny model look washed out.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Raven2001 on January 13, 2004, 03:13:53 pm: not high enoug?? I don't think so... really:

fighters/bombers: 0 - 1000 polys
cruisers/freighters/transports and whtsoever below corvette size: 1600 - 2200 polys
Corvettes: 2500 - 3300 polys
Destroyers: 3300 - 5000 polys
Juggernauth and beyond: 4500 - 8000

These are the poly counts that I use, and think they are the best to keep an excellent detail level/performance balance. Oh, NOTE that these poly counts are for the main hulls only, so they aren't for ships turreted...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Flipside on January 13, 2004, 03:24:50 pm: I think he meant the textures Raven, and I agree, if I'm right S-Spline can only do so much ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Stealth[cro] on January 13, 2004, 04:15:27 pm: Heh... this model is bound to kick the frameset down some. Very nice ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on January 13, 2004, 04:23:02 pm: Will this high-poly frenzy reach the heights of masochism with high-poly missile models?
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Carl on January 13, 2004, 04:26:59 pm: now let's get mik's Herc poffed and in-game :shaking:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 04:27:26 pm: raven, I was using this pcount already in vanilla fs2 (except the bigger ships) :lol:

btw lightspeed I was referring to the high res maps from fs1, not the fs2 maps. Maybe they aren't optimal, but not that bad. But if you feel confident that you can do better...go for it!:)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 05:15:08 pm: the textures for the herc are currently at a high enough resolution, unfortunately, the herc is by far the worst UV mapped ship in the game, also it looks like some V artist decided to hit the brighten button on it at some point so that's why the colors are washed out, what I need to do is completly reorganise the UV layout (only about half of it is actualy getting used right now) and do some touching up of the maps
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 13, 2004, 05:16:44 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Petrarch of the VBB
Will this high-poly frenzy reach the heights of masochism with high-poly missile models?

Welcome to three days ago. These missiles were posted on Lightspeed's weapons thread.

(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/missiles1.jpg)

I have no fricking idea why someone would make high-poly missiles though.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 05:35:27 pm: I can't see how someone could posably want more than 100 polys on a missle
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 13, 2004, 05:41:00 pm: Well, i remember someone else made an hi-poly version of the Herc with a whole new mesh...
It was Lightspeed IIRC, that fighter was pretty cool.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 13, 2004, 05:44:26 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
the textures for the herc are currently at a high enough resolution, unfortunately, the herc is by far the worst UV mapped ship in the game, also it looks like some V artist decided to hit the brighten button on it at some point so that's why the colors are washed out, what I need to do is completly reorganise the UV layout (only about half of it is actualy getting used right now) and do some touching up of the maps

They aren't hi-res enough to do that model justice. Reorganazing the UV map is a really good idea, though :)

Anyway, i can't wait to see your results ;7 :nod:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 13, 2004, 05:46:45 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zarax
It was Lightspeed IIRC, that fighter was pretty cool.

You're mistaking. I never did any useful mesh for Freespace.

My modelling skills are non-existant :p

I haven't tried lately, though.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 13, 2004, 05:54:34 pm: Well, the link in in the plot/ships thread, if someone converted it for ingame use it would be really cool
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Corsair on January 13, 2004, 05:59:55 pm: Hey Bob, do you think you could post a COB (or something like that) version of the Herc? I'm trying to put it into 3DExplorer but it's getting all screwed up in POF2COB...

Looks awesome by the way ;):yes:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 06:01:28 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zarax
Well, i remember someone else made an hi-poly version of the Herc with a whole new mesh...
It was Lightspeed IIRC, that fighter was pretty cool.

That would be me, and it was okay. It needs some serious reworking in places.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 13, 2004, 06:03:50 pm: Mikhael, if i can get my hands on it you would see it in my campaign as a Sol advanced version of the Herc...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 06:20:45 pm: wasn't that like a 100,000 poly mesh

and use PCS
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Flaser on January 13, 2004, 06:20:53 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I can't see how someone could posably want more than 100 polys on a missle

These models would only be displayed during the few moments when they pass right by your cockpit - it's rare but happened to me on quite frequently compared to other such events.

Actually high poly count missiles will be a very little drain - you just have to set the LOD distances correctly.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 13, 2004, 06:40:55 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Corsair
Hey Bob, do you think you could post a COB (or something like that) version of the Herc? I'm trying to put it into 3DExplorer but it's getting all screwed up in POF2COB...

Looks awesome by the way ;):yes:

well I posted the cob some posts above;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Corsair on January 13, 2004, 07:55:26 pm: D'oh! Thank you Karma! :nod:

edit: I see something about textures above but... is it supposed to look untextured in 3DE? Or what... shouldn't it just use the old ones or is my computer just messing with me again?
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 08:24:02 pm: it should use the origonals

and I've got the seem fixed, and will upload after getting it totaly game ready
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Taristin on January 13, 2004, 08:43:26 pm: Damnit! Will someone who can use the shinemapping post screenshots?
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: mikhael on January 13, 2004, 09:52:00 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
wasn't that like a 100,000 poly mesh

12100, approximately.

Of course there's like 5000 polys taken up by totally useless details, and probably another 2000 taken up by poorly executed geometry. For example, I used 1650 polys on guns (with hollowed out barrels!) and another 1500 on missile tubes. That's 3000 that could be shaved down to probably 600 with some intelligent poly usage.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 13, 2004, 10:29:05 pm: the zip now contains a fully game ready model, it still should be remapped though
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Setekh on January 14, 2004, 04:22:11 am: That's a definite improvement, though I think the sides and fuselage could do with more work. But I'm not complaining. :):yes:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: J3Vr6 on January 14, 2004, 08:23:09 am: Can we see updated screen shots, please? :D
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 14, 2004, 10:52:26 am: 2 things:

- cockpit could use smoothing (the glass part looks... edgy)
- textures need more detail

Else than that it looks fantastic. And it doesnt slow anything down at all. 5 Hercs on screen = 0 FPS drop. (85 FPS without anything on screen, 85 FPS with the 5 Hercs on it) ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Gloriano on January 14, 2004, 11:01:28 am: very nice:yes: look's much better now
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Odyssey on January 14, 2004, 11:14:00 am: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
And it doesnt slow anything down at all. 5 Hercs on screen = 0 FPS drop. (85 FPS without anything on screen, 85 FPS with the 5 Hercs on it) ;)

[color=cc9900]Disable vsync and try that again.[/color]
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Lightspeed on January 14, 2004, 11:45:56 am: anything that stays above 85 FPS is no slow down for me. It'd be useless anyway since the additional frames are not needed due to V_synch. :)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Sandwich on January 14, 2004, 11:51:52 am: Quote
Originally posted by Lightspeed
anything that stays above 85 FPS is no slow down for me. It'd be useless anyway since the additional frames are not needed due to V_synch. :)

But it _would_ show how much of a slowdown the Hercs cause. :)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Stealth[cro] on January 15, 2004, 06:47:00 pm: Let me get this straight.... Bobboau recreated the Herc1, KARMA re-meshed the Fenris...

Does that mean more high-poly models from you SCP people soon? It looks like in the end we'll have to download a CD-ful of VPs. :eek:
*looks at his 56k modem... cursed thing*

Nevertheless, great work. If only we could get a re-meshing of the ACv Phaistos and the old AF Kato. :doubt:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Unknown Target on January 16, 2004, 05:28:30 am: The SCP people aren't making them as an upgrade, IIRC, it's just people who want to do it making them.

And they happen to be in the SCP :D
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: J3Vr6 on January 16, 2004, 08:11:58 am: Can we see updated pics of the improvements, pweeease?
Title: FS1 textures
Post by: Gregster2k on January 17, 2004, 12:01:46 pm: are the FS1 texture files available for free download anywhere? i want them
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: karajorma on January 17, 2004, 12:15:28 pm: Check the FS1 port. I believe they are included in that.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Stealth[cro] on January 17, 2004, 06:58:49 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
The SCP people aren't making them as an upgrade, IIRC, it's just people who want to do it making them.

And they happen to be in the SCP :D

Yeah, suuuuuuure. :ick
Can't wait for the next model in line...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Nico on January 17, 2004, 07:11:42 pm: Really?
what about a manticore:
(http://www.swooh.com/premium/venom/fs2pics/manticorewip.jpg)
:D
I should really finish it...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Starks on January 17, 2004, 07:36:46 pm: OH SWEET JEBUS!!!!
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 07:42:10 pm: JEBUS H CHRIST ON A UNICYCLE
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: mikhael on January 17, 2004, 07:53:34 pm: See, that's what we're supposed to be doing. ;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 10:43:25 pm: yeah, finish that damned thing already :)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: adwight on January 18, 2004, 12:06:56 am: Damn
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 18, 2004, 04:52:33 am: :ha: and you dared to grumble about the pcount of the fenris!:p
yes, you definitively should finish that cute manticore:)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 18, 2004, 08:22:20 am: Bobbau, does your herc require HTL on or any other special setting?
It makes the game crashing every time both in mission and in ships database...
I have most SCP stuff turned off because i've got a TNT2 and a P3 933 here...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 18, 2004, 08:34:15 am: Now that's weird...
I turned htl on and everything gone ok...
BTW, your Herc is really nice and it takes 30fps on my machine alone...
I get 70-75 with a standard Herc, while it falls to 40-45 with your version...
Great work.
Now, if you only could make a small thing i have in mind i would be really grateful...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Stealth[cro] on January 18, 2004, 08:34:16 am: Nico - whaddaya waiting for? I wanna see that thing FLY! ;)
Very nice details on the cannon mounts/pylons, but IMO there's not enough details on the missile rack (lowest part, judging by the FS2 intro)... then agian, a nice texture could probably "fix that" :D
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Black Wolf on January 18, 2004, 12:44:28 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Zarax
Now that's weird...
I turned htl on and everything gone ok...

Not weird. That's what's supposed to happen.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Nico on January 18, 2004, 12:57:51 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Stealth[cro]
Nico - whaddaya waiting for? I wanna see that thing FLY! ;)
Very nice details on the cannon mounts/pylons, but IMO there's not enough details on the missile rack (lowest part, judging by the FS2 intro)... then agian, a nice texture could probably "fix that" :D

Of course, it's the original mesh, mine overlaps it and I haven't done that area ;) ( btw, the game has the gun/missiles switched, personnally I prefer the intro setup, but heh ).
The pb with the manticore is that, you gotta admit, you can't see much difference. It's cool and all there coz you have a fairly large still shot, but ingame, you're probably not gonna notice any difference...
I could take some artistic license to make it look cooler ( I personnaly much prefer the version shown in the concept pic, for exemple ), but people are usually not pleased with that ( I'm usually not either, at least for capships - coz detailling on them is much more visible-, and for the overhall shape of the ship -detailling is something else, for exemple, if bob decided to remove the hull on some parts of his herc and show some pipes underneath, I wouldn't mind at all, but if he, dunno, added two fins, or cut the nose, I'd call forth the names of the seven witches of Nazarheim upon him :D )
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Stealth[cro] on January 20, 2004, 07:59:11 am: What can I say, I'm a detail-freak The fighters aren't too hard to see from up-close - when I trail them, that usually means I'm under 100m from them and trying to breathe through its exhaust fumes :p

Anyways... I guess I better stop hitching the thread before Bobboau hunts me down... :eek: Off to give the Herc 1-B a field test.

edit: Field test result: PASS. :nod:
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Zarax on January 20, 2004, 08:02:58 am: Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf

Not weird. That's what's supposed to happen.

Well, it is not logic that a non htl card could work with htl...
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 20, 2004, 08:08:58 am: yeah it is, D3D is set up so that if your card doesn't suport HT&L it's software emulation will kick in, and that is still a faster way of doing things than the old way
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: KARMA on January 20, 2004, 08:12:07 am: I have a non-htl card, and with -htl the game is 4/4.5 times faster;)
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Bobboau on January 20, 2004, 08:31:19 am: it's a lot faster than the old way
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Flipside on January 21, 2004, 05:55:27 pm: Damn my ageing eyes, everytime I see this thread title with the paperclip at the front, I keep reading 'rubberized Herc' :(
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: SA22C on January 22, 2004, 02:55:11 am: The new Herc looks great, just enough detail to make it look better without going overboard. It has a minimal effect on the game, if at all.
Title: Ubberized herc
Post by: Ulala on January 29, 2004, 12:45:22 am: Updated screenies? Plweeeeeese? ;)