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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: aldo_14 on January 16, 2004, 07:28:23 pm

Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 16, 2004, 07:28:23 pm
Right.... I decide to start looking at jobs today, so I actually have something to do once I finsih uni in June.

Problem is that i'm qualified for exactly... sod all.  I already have a BSC, I'm on course for a 1st class honours and have averaged over 80% (more or less) in allmy exams, including a couple of +90% marks in the hardest ones last year.

but because my uni chose Java as the language to teach, I can't get any of the jobs I'd want.... the closest is doing some stupid ****ing mobile phone programming.  what's more, i can't even attempt to learn C++, because my course is literally non-stop.  (that's why i'm up at 1:30am working.....)

SO my only choice is to do a postgrad - which i can barely afford to - take a **** job and basically work a second job trying to learn C++ (basically abandon any hope of free time for the next year), go into business myself (doomed), or switch to trying to be a 3d artist.  And i can't even do the latter properly, because I don't have a clue on kinematics rigs, or skinning, or animation, et al.

So I'm going to end up with one of the top degrees (literally - apparently my course is the second hardest) in Scotland, but no skills to get a job I actually want to do.  whereas i could have taken some ****ty 3 year business degree and be set.

Fan-bloody-tastic.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 16, 2004, 07:42:17 pm
Trust me, I feel your pain...
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: mikhael on January 16, 2004, 08:03:25 pm
Aldo, I think, asside from the concept of pointers, that you could convert your java skills easily. You don't seem the "but java lets you..." type. I figure you've got the brains to pick up C++ quick.

Personally, I'd hit the mobile phone route. There's money to be had there. Its a market that isn't going away and it just keeps getting bigger.  Besides, its a way into the telecommunications industry. There's LOTS of money to be had there if you're good.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: magatsu1 on January 17, 2004, 07:03:38 am
Congrats no the scores.

Can't your tutors suggest someting ?
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Sandwich on January 17, 2004, 04:55:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Personally, I'd hit the mobile phone route. There's money to be had there. Its a market that isn't going away and it just keeps getting bigger.  Besides, its a way into the telecommunications industry. There's LOTS of money to be had there if you're good.


Hell yeah! Make a Java-based Trillian for mobile phones and you'll be rich. :D
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2004, 05:41:23 pm
Making mobile phone apps...isn't exactly inspiring stuff for me.  That's the problem.  Also, the only jobs I could find of that ilk are several hundred miles from where i live, and i don't have the cash to afford to move.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: mikhael on January 17, 2004, 06:12:54 pm
What about making mobile phone GAMES? ;)
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Sandwich on January 17, 2004, 06:22:59 pm
PhoneSpace!! :p
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2004, 06:26:41 pm
not unless someone wants me to make ChampMan....... I want to make proper games, dammit.  Just wish I'd realised that 2 years ago, when i could have done something about it in time.

Guess my best hope is to finsih the game i'm doing for my project and port it onto C++ as a self-tutorial.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: vyper on January 17, 2004, 06:41:02 pm
aldo mate, have you thought about a post grad in games development? We run one at Caley, a Masters. From our courses any computing student that grads Computing with Specialist Stream can get in, and I'd assume with a 1st class would get in!

www.gcal.ac.uk

:thepimp:
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2004, 06:48:42 pm
I considered the Abertay course (turned the degree course down, actually), but I don't really want to stay on at uni any longer.... besides which, a lot of computer games courses are glorified integrated systems courses, I've been told.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: vyper on January 17, 2004, 06:54:06 pm
Well, you ain't seen anything like our games lab but... heh, okay.

I find it hard to believe someone like Rockstar wouldn't take you on if you sent them samples of your work from around here. Who've you heard from so far?
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Nico on January 17, 2004, 06:54:27 pm
Man, don't complain. At least, that phone stuff is remotely linked to what you wanna do. I have a 3D artist formation, and what job am I doing? I'm a f'cking night receptionist in an hotel.
Wanna switch places?
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2004, 07:03:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vyper
Well, you ain't seen anything like our games lab but... heh, okay.

I find it hard to believe someone like Rockstar wouldn't take you on if you sent them samples of your work from around here. Who've you heard from so far?


nonoe...I can't find anyone in Scotalnds that's hiring any Java programmers, let alone in the games industry.  It's even worse for graphical stuff, and I'm not nearly qualified for that anyway.

Quote
Originally posted by Nico
Man, don't complain. At least, that phone stuff is remotely linked to what you wanna do. I have a 3D artist formation, and what job am I doing? I'm a f'cking night receptionist in an hotel.
Wanna switch places?


Yeah, that's true - you do have a ****ey situation for someone with that amount of ability.
Title: You think that is bad?
Post by: übermetroid on January 17, 2004, 07:34:51 pm
You think that is bad?  My GF just told me this morning that I am 8 months away from being a dad.  

That means that I am going to have to get a full time job to make sure my kid is healthy.  And with a full time job I will not be able to continue school.  And I only have 3 more semesters too!

What should I do without a degree?  Maybe I should just join the Coast Guard and do anti-terrorist patrols around the Bay Area.....  :shaking:
Title: Re: You think that is bad?
Post by: aldo_14 on January 17, 2004, 07:40:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ubermetroid
You think that is bad?  My GF just told me this morning that I am 8 months away from being a dad.  

That means that I am going to have to get a full time job to make sure my kid is healthy.  And with a full time job I will not be able to continue school.  And I only have 3 more semesters too!

What should I do without a degree?  Maybe I should just join the Coast Guard and do anti-terrorist patrols around the Bay Area.....  :shaking:


Can you not get support, though?  A friend of mine has 3 kids (he's 30) and gets a decent amount in support grants for that - surely there's somewhere you can turn?

NB:  I'm feeling kind of selfish for *****ing about my own concerns when other people have more pressing concerns..... so apologies to anyone who thinks i'm bieng a little over dramatic.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: vyper on January 17, 2004, 08:18:15 pm
[q]nonoe...I can't find anyone in Scotalnds that's hiring any Java programmers, let alone in the games industry. It's even worse for graphical stuff, and I'm not nearly qualified for that anyway.[/q]
You're scaring me here mate.

[q]You think that is bad? My GF just told me this morning that I am 8 months away from being a dad. [/q]

Congratulations and comiserations.
Title: Re: Re: You think that is bad?
Post by: IceFire on January 17, 2004, 10:43:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14

I'm feeling kind of selfish for *****ing about my own concerns when other people have more pressing concerns..... so apologies to anyone who thinks i'm bieng a little over dramatic.

No need to appologise...to each of us our situation and its problems are definately relative.  I definately hear you Aldo...you work long and hard to achieve the grades necessary to get through all the school...you learn how to jump through all the hoops and then they become irrelevant.

I'm still in third year with another year to go (well a semester and a half as it stands right now) and everyone has no idea what jobs will be there at the end of the line for us.  Being in a new Communications program means we're the forefront of what may or may not be something :)
Title: Re: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 10:51:38 pm
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Java  


:lol:


...sorry, I meant :(
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Liberator on January 17, 2004, 11:41:24 pm
Best advice I can give:

Get a less than advantageous job to earn money for living and stuff, and work your way around to what you want to do.  You're still young(under 30 I assume), you've got lots of time to get into what you want.  

Java and C+ are similar, if your good in Java, you should be able to pick it up in no time.

Of course, this is all coming from someone who can't get even Wal-Mart or K-Mart to even call me.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 11:45:37 pm
yeah, a good Java programer should be able to pick up c++ easily
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Ace on January 18, 2004, 12:04:50 am
Well Aldo, wEvil and I are working for a company that is right now developing a 3d engine for PC, and is also finishing up a cellphone title.

I'll ask if they're looking for another programmer, if they are I'll put in a word for you. The fact that you're a good modeler (and so can help with test art if necessary) I think would be a good selling point.

The company is Realspace Technologies, headquartered in Vienna, Austria:
http://www.realspace.org/

Anyway, I'm not promising anything, but I will ask to see if someone is needed.

I do agree with Mik in that starting out with programming cellphone applications/games is a good idea. I scoffed at it myself at first, but due to the profit to cost ratio it's a solid way to get a start for a business before beginning production on a project for a more esoteric format. (i.e. PCs)
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: mikhael on January 18, 2004, 12:13:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ace

I do agree with Mik in that starting out with programming cellphone applications/games is a good idea. I scoffed at it myself at first, but due to the profit to cost ratio it's a solid way to get a start for a business before beginning production on a project for a more esoteric format. (i.e. PCs)

Never discount the value of professional programming experience on your resume. I can write code in a bunch of languages, but I've got no PROFESSIONAL experience. That lack of experience is killing my job prospects. Give that phone thing a serious thought.

And seriously, you CAN pick up C and C++. Pointers may throw you for a bit of a loop, but after you get that, you're golden.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 18, 2004, 05:45:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael

Never discount the value of professional programming experience on your resume. I can write code in a bunch of languages, but I've got no PROFESSIONAL experience. That lack of experience is killing my job prospects. Give that phone thing a serious thought.

And seriously, you CAN pick up C and C++. Pointers may throw you for a bit of a loop, but after you get that, you're golden.


Actually, I don't mind pointers.  I spent about 3 months in second year working with simple C programs (largely for purposes of analysing the compiled assembler) for low Level Programming.  One of the main aspects was looking at stuff like poiter ovrruns, I'm just a bit rusty.  IIRC, I liked C - it reminded of good old COMAL from school.

It's picking up directX and /or OpenGL that's the concern for me.... I have a dcent understanding of the basic concepts, but there's no advanced Graphics courses at my uni which go beyond basic (untextured) surface rendering and lighting.... there was talk of one, but the lecturer has never got round to actually starting the damn thing.  It's a shame, cos i was good at the conceptual side that we did do...got something like 95% for the final mark, largely through writing half of the course content on the exam sheet.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: mikhael on January 18, 2004, 11:31:21 am
Bah. You don't need courses to pick up OpenGL (I dunno about DirectX). I bought the OpenGL Programming Reference and the OpenGL Programming Guide and was able to build a mesh previewer in about a week. Its only a short step from there to adding a resource manager to handle multiple meshes, and a control parser to handle the stick and throttle, if you know what I mean. The ***** comes in when you start trying to build in things like AI and persistent systems. None of those things are OpenGL though. ;)
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: übermetroid on January 18, 2004, 12:51:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by vyper


[q]You think that is bad? My GF just told me this morning that I am 8 months away from being a dad. [/q]

Congratulations and comiserations.


Thanks!

You know, the more and more I think about it the more happy I become.  :nod:  I was able to ask around and I have plently of support so (I think) I should be able to stay in school (though it might take 4 semesters instead of 3), get a job and be able to have a kid.

I'm actually really happy right now!
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: an0n on January 18, 2004, 12:56:56 pm
You realise of course that a 'high' percentage of first-time pregnancies end in miscarriage?


Also, Aldo: Cell-Phones + Your 'Evil' Code = Black-Market Phreaking Phun.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Nico on January 18, 2004, 01:07:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
You realise of course that a 'high' percentage of first-time pregnancies end in miscarriage?


Bull**** :p
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: an0n on January 18, 2004, 01:11:39 pm
I'm not saying it's like 98% or anything, but it's a big enough percentage that they mention it to you when you go to the doctors.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 18, 2004, 01:13:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ubermetroid


Thanks!

You know, the more and more I think about it the more happy I become.  :nod:  I was able to ask around and I have plently of support so (I think) I should be able to stay in school (though it might take 4 semesters instead of 3), get a job and be able to have a kid.

I'm actually really happy right now!


That's good to hear :)  

Good luck! Everyone I know who has kids, doesn't regret it one bit ;)
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: Nico on January 18, 2004, 01:13:49 pm
yeah, but then again, most women never had a miscarriage, so go wonder. It can happen, it's not rare, but a high percentage? No.
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: aldo_14 on January 18, 2004, 01:20:56 pm
Let's not tempt fate by talking about it, eh?
Title: I'm screwed (work-finding related rant)
Post by: an0n on January 18, 2004, 01:40:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nico
It can happen, it's not rare, but a high percentage? No.
That's why I ''d it.

High in relation to the severity of it.