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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lt.Cannonfodder on January 17, 2004, 12:42:33 pm

Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on January 17, 2004, 12:42:33 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3406041.stm

A real diplomat... :rolleyes:
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 17, 2004, 01:10:22 pm
Hmm... Thats a rather odd piece of art tho. I wouldnt even call that art. Ugh, I hate modern art people. I would toss a bloody spotlight at it cause its a crappy piece of art. BUT...

Someone of such high stature shouldn't have acted that way. But come on, he wasnt suppressing the freedom of speech. He was just pissed and venting his anger.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 01:10:25 pm
can't say I disagree with him, but it's an ambasidor's job to make there contry look good to others, and while I'm sure most Israeli will be like "hell yeah!!", there not the one's he should be trying to look good in front of.

but that was sort of like makeing a shrine glorifying Hitler
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 17, 2004, 01:28:14 pm
He attacked a piece of art?

Surely he'd be better off throwing rock[et]s at some Palestinians?
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 01:29:57 pm
Or persuading the Israeli public not to protest about the removal of Jewish camps which are provoking suicide attacks
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 17, 2004, 01:32:29 pm
That's the problem with the concept of a Jewish state. Jews see themselves are a persecuted people, so if anyone does anything even remotely against their interests, even if it's completely mundane and trivial, they kick up a fuss.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 17, 2004, 01:38:28 pm
Unfortunately this seems true, certainly to the outsider. From where I'm sitting, Jewish policy is extremely arrogant.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: mikhael on January 17, 2004, 01:40:20 pm
Where in the article did it state or imply that the art piece was glorifying the suicide bomber.

IT WAS HER FACE FLOATING ON A POOL OF BLOOD.

That's not glorification, that's denunciation.

They did not print an explanation from the artist at all. They only printed "[the ambassador] said he was ashamed I was a Jew...". That's the only thing we get from the artist. Even if he WAS glorifying the wench, that's his right and this lackwit should have known better than to destroy it.

You lot are quick to leap to the worst possible conclusion (and I'm quick to leap to the most favorable, I guess).
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 17, 2004, 01:46:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
That's not glorification, that's denunciation.
Art's subjective, so it's not exactly surprising that an Israeli diplomat would see it as any 'atrocity'.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 01:50:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
Even if he WAS glorifying the wench, that's his right and this lackwit should have known better than to destroy it.


has anyone disagreed with this?

and it could suposedly be interpeted either way it seemed to me that it was a depiction of her triumpf over the evil ocupation by killing jews, maybe if she wasn't smileing or floating on the blood it would seem more like a denouncement. maybe it's actualy one of those peices that's suposed to bring out ones own inner predjudice
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 17, 2004, 01:53:29 pm
A woman smiling while riding down/around-on a river/lake of blood doesn't exactly say "I'm a fluffy bunny" to me.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: SadisticSid on January 17, 2004, 02:01:07 pm
He should've known better, especially since he was a guest of another country. Vandalism doesn't accomplish anything.

Mind you, it's not as if it took any real skill to produce this 'art', so the loss is minimal. :P
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 17, 2004, 02:42:06 pm
Well, nowadays you dont need any artistic skills to make Modern Art. Hell, I'll never forget one modern Art exhibition here in finland, where the bloody artist had three blenders, ontop of two washing machines. All were on. All filled with his body fluids. (Urine, Blood, Semen. This is no joke) on one corner theres a bed with a pink phone on it and in the other a coke bottle filled with urine. You can imagine the smell after 3 days... It was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. And people were applauding it.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 17, 2004, 02:50:08 pm
I remember when a landscape painting used to be considered art.

Then all the elitist ****-heads got into the business and started just trying to out-mind**** each other and find some excuse to label people they didn't like 'uncultured'.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Pez on January 17, 2004, 02:53:04 pm
Click here (rtsp://qstream-rm.qbrick.com/00928/nyheter/2004/040117/KONST1930.rm)  for a programme segement from swedish television. It features when Mazel "vandalize" the installation. Also an interview with Mazel in english and comments and interview with artist Fieler in swedish.   (req. RealPlayer).
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Pez on January 17, 2004, 03:12:24 pm
From the Jerusalem post: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1074329035664
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 17, 2004, 03:21:56 pm
Well. That cleared something up. Though I'm rather shocked at how the embassador acted. I didn't think he went as far as to act like a pittle prissy 5 year old. Oh well...

But still, I think the "artist" who made that was trying to be provocative, with a touchy subject. I hate that kinda of art.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 17, 2004, 03:23:10 pm
Whoops. Pressed the wrong button. But still... :hopping:
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Sandwich on January 17, 2004, 05:08:07 pm
Hmmm... I'm not sure what to make of it, especially not after reading the text (http://www.makingdifferences.com/site/calendar.php?lang=en&id=20) of the exhibit.

Hmm.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: vyper on January 17, 2004, 05:26:38 pm
Quite a provocative text. You know, I do not agree with her actions but I can feel for her as a human being.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: mikhael on January 17, 2004, 05:29:52 pm
I'd interpret the text of the exhibit, Sandwich as a commentary on the futility of the entire conflict, the destruction heaped ON both sides BY both sides, and the loss of innocence.

But what do I know? I'm just an observer from the other side of the world.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Bobboau on January 17, 2004, 05:34:31 pm
yeah, I'm not sure if that was... what, uh
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 18, 2004, 04:47:10 am
All I wanna know is how does snow white fit into it?

I mean ****, with that logic I can make a piece of art with a potato with pens sticking out of it, bobbing in a drum of green water with chicken bones at the bottom and call it "Cindarella's acceptance of the night"
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 18, 2004, 04:56:58 am
Think I agrree with Mik, certainly futility is what I got out of it. We hurt them 'cos they hurt us, and vice versa. Repeat ad nauseum.

It begs the question - what is the ****ing point?
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Pez on January 18, 2004, 05:14:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
All I wanna know is how does snow white fit into it?

I mean ****, with that logic I can make a piece of art with a potato with pens sticking out of it, bobbing in a drum of green water with chicken bones at the bottom and call it "Cindarella's acceptance of the night"


From the text Sandwich posted above: "She was also a woman, as white as snow"

White as snow - Snow White.

I think that it has nothing to do the fairytale of Snow White. I just think they where playing with words. Maybe there's a link between the faitytale of Snow White and suicidebomber Jaradat. But I can't atleast see it.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: mikhael on January 18, 2004, 11:28:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
All I wanna know is how does snow white fit into it?


I guess the dumbing-down of faerie tales is a universal thing.

Snow White and Rose Red (the original tale), was a gruesome, violent story intended to scare children. As I recall EVERYBODY DIES. That's what it has to do with "Snow White".
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Dark_4ce on January 18, 2004, 11:35:20 am
Ah. Never heard of that one... Maybe your right...

*goes back to filling up his drum with green liquid...*
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: aldo_14 on January 19, 2004, 06:24:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
I'd interpret the text of the exhibit, Sandwich as a commentary on the futility of the entire conflict, the destruction heaped ON both sides BY both sides, and the loss of innocence.
 


That was my interpretation.... it seems to be about the self-repeating cycle of violence to me as well.

The truly tragic thing is that, if the ambassador had just left it alone no-one would care or even know....all he's done is made himself and - by implication - his country look bad, by effectively seeking to repress free speech that he doesn't agree with.

It's exactly the sort of petty, unforgiving attitude - shared by both sides - that has made for such a perpetual conflict.  If either side was willing to forgive and forget, the first steps of peace could maybe be made.... sure, revenge is good, but it doesn't solve anything - all it does is result in revenge after revenge after revenge, and more dead people.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: SadisticSid on January 20, 2004, 07:37:58 am
Where does this 'repressing free speech' come from? Did he demand a censor on this artist or something?

He simply vandalised something he didn't like the look of. Accusing the guy of anything else is just pissing in the wind.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2004, 07:49:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by SadisticSid
Where does this 'repressing free speech' come from? Did he demand a censor on this artist or something?


Um, yeah.  He demanded the artwork be removed, IIRC.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: an0n on January 20, 2004, 08:05:30 am
Let's pool our cash and have some Al Qaeda militant nuke the Gaza Strip for us.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2004, 08:13:05 am
I had my eye on a new pair of shoes, actually.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: kode on January 20, 2004, 08:17:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by SadisticSid
Where does this 'repressing free speech' come from? Did he demand a censor on this artist or something?

He simply vandalised something he didn't like the look of. Accusing the guy of anything else is just pissing in the wind.


he demanded the swedish government to remove the art piece in question. something they can't, and shouldn't, do.

and mik hit it pretty right on in his interpretation.

oh, and we swedes are all anti-semite.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: aldo_14 on January 20, 2004, 08:20:30 am
It's just bizarre.......

how many people heard about this piece of art before a spotlight was chucked at it?
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Windrunner on January 20, 2004, 03:55:42 pm
he destroyed the so called artwork without knowing all the facts. for example i don't think the ambassador knew that the artist who made it is  born in Israel. his name is Dror Feiler.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Shrike on January 20, 2004, 04:24:02 pm
Apparently the ambassador said that he was ashamed and/or angry that the artist was a jew, but I'd have to find a source to confirm that.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Splinter on January 21, 2004, 02:34:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Windrunner
he destroyed the so called artwork without knowing all the facts. for example i don't think the ambassador knew that the artist who made it is  born in Israel. his name is Dror Feiler.


nah he knew, that made him angrier :hopping:

saw an interview with the Isralie foreign minister about the thing and he agreed it should be taken down only cause it looks like its glorifiying the bomber... he said if it wasnt then the faces of the VICTIMS would have been on the boat.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: kode on January 21, 2004, 08:41:29 am
you mean the woman wasn't a victim? well, I guess her family deserved to die, then.
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: aldo_14 on January 21, 2004, 10:45:23 am
Everyone was a victim - I think that was the point of the text on the artwork & the pool of blood...... although maybe the point of the 'art' was to raise that issue.

Maybe it was intended to be like a Rorschach (?) test - the meaning is subjective to the viewer.

Or maybe the artist weas tying to raise a few bob by doing an art thing with a picture of a suicide bomber and then coining in in from the resulting controversy....who can say?

Who cares?
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: mikhael on January 21, 2004, 12:20:19 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
Apparently the ambassador said that he was ashamed and/or angry that the artist was a jew, but I'd have to find a source to confirm that.


RTFA. Last paragraph.

Quote

"He said he was ashamed that I was a Jew," Mr Feiler said, adding: "We see this as an offensive assault on our right to express our thoughts and feelings."
Title: "Israeli envoy wrecks art exhibit"
Post by: Shrike on January 21, 2004, 01:35:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael
RTFA. Last paragraph.
Ah, thank you.  I saw this article somewhere else and it wasn't a BBC source so I didn't read this specific article.