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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 10:18:41 am

Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 10:18:41 am
i have just heard that i have 100,- Euro's left over from my birthday money from my grandma. now, i want a new graph card. i have a POS mobo, AGP 2x. my specs are:

P3 800
192MB SDRAM
RIVA TNT2 16MB
win98SE

now, the demands:

has to run on AGP 2x too.
about 100 Euro/$. i have this ammount, plus what's in my wallet. so you can go about 10 dollar/euro's but nothing more.
64MB minimum, possibly more
RADEON, i have heard too much bad news about GForces.
TV-Out, VGA, and if possibly DVI.
video in is certainly a plus, though not neccesary.

now, recommend the best card you know for this kind of thing.

i am looking myself too, but i have a few questions:
what's the difference between DVI and D-Sub?
what matters more, the amount of RAM, the chipset, the speed of the GPU, or the mem speed? remember, i've got AGP2x.
what is RAMDAC?
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Triple Ace on January 22, 2004, 10:42:47 am
I'd get a new system if I were you.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 10:50:36 am
for €100?
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Killfrenzy on January 22, 2004, 11:40:27 am
There's nowt wrong with GeForce.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Liberator on January 22, 2004, 12:13:57 pm
I replaced the important parts for about $164 US.

$38 for the Mobo
$60 for the Processor
$66 for the RAM

Of course, my parents bought a few things too but that was the majority of it.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 12:16:03 pm
look, i don't have the time, the need, nor the cash for a real new comp. i just need a graph card. i play simple games, like FS, but when i can't even run the SCP i need an upgrade. if i want an entire new comp, i'll ask for it. now, please, either give me something i can use, or STFU. this one ir reasonably important to me, because it is still quite a lot of cash. and i want to play the SCP, that is all.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: vyper on January 22, 2004, 12:22:55 pm
GeForce FX of some kind.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Martinus on January 22, 2004, 12:23:07 pm
[color=66ff00]Replace your computer and I'll mail you my old GeForce2MX which should tide you over until you can afford a decent GFX card.

You buy anything more powerful and you're effectively crippling it with the old mobo, I'd replace the computer first mate. It makes the most monetary sense.
[/color]
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 12:28:05 pm
well, yeah, but i need the graphics stuff first. also, i intend to save up for about half a year or more, see if i can get a job in the next schoolyear, and then see about a new comp. i can put this card in it then. really, my 800mhz is keeping me happy for now, and 192MB should be plenty for simple jobs too. i use word, IE, FS, and Halflife/counterstrike. i don't need a new comp for that, just a new graph card for the FSO stuff. i could, off course, save this too, wait till i have the time to figure out a completely new, working system for myself, find the cash, find time to buy it, find time to build it, and then hope it isn't ancient by the time i press the power button. it would take untill next schoolyear at least.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 22, 2004, 01:02:22 pm
How about a GeForce 4 Ti4200? They're dropping in price since they're only DX 8.1 compatible, but they're fairly fast (I'm pulling off a 3D Mark 2001 SE score of about 13k with mine) and will work fine with both FSO and an AGP 2x slot. It should set you back about 90 for a 64MB card (which is what I have) or about 130 for a 128MB card. Another decent card that's fairly cheap is if you can find a Radeon 8500 or 9500 somewhere.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 22, 2004, 01:09:32 pm
90 for a 64MB card?

i can get a radeon 9200 with 256 for 80
and a 9600 with 128MB for 110
btw, what is the most important, the amount of mem or the date of the chipset?
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 22, 2004, 02:19:22 pm
The prices I quoted were actually quite high for the card. But anyway, just get whichever of these you can get the cheapest from a reputable company: Ti4200, Radeon 9500, Radeon 9600.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 22, 2004, 03:17:06 pm
Buy a Radeon 9200 (like mine(http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/images/smilies/pimp.gif)).

In case you wondered how my GeForce 2 suddenly became a Radeon 9200, I replaced some of my hardware last December.

Old:
AMD Athlon XP 1600+
nVidia GeForce 2 MX
256 MB RAM
48X CD-ROM drive

New:
AMD Athlon XP 3000+
ATi Radeon 9200
512 MB RAM
52X CD-ROM drive with 8X CD-R/RW burner

Now that I think of it, driver conflicts caused by replacing four major pieces of hardware might have contributed to my HD getting corrupted.

Quote
RIVA TNT2 16MB

Good lord! That's an ancient, ancient card. That thing must be six years old.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 22, 2004, 03:41:42 pm
I wouldn't really suggest a 9200. No real reason to get a bargain card.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 22, 2004, 03:58:17 pm
Bargain card? It's a pretty damn good card, at least compared to my old GeForce 2 and a GeForce 4 comp I once tried out in a store. Plus he's only got €110 or so to spend, so he can't afford a really powerful card.

I checked five stores on the Web for prices on a 9200, and I got $108, $92, $98, $86, and $96--perfect for his budget.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 22, 2004, 04:01:19 pm
It is true that it is better than your GF2, and possibly better than the GF4 (that's assuming that it was a GF4 MX), but it is still technically the bargain segment.

ATI's line is divided into three parts, as are most companies. The 9000, 9100, and 9200 fall into the bargain category. The 9500 and 9600 fall into the mainstream category. The performance category is the 9700 and 9800. So your card is, indeed, a bargain card.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Woolie Wool on January 22, 2004, 04:02:56 pm
I just edited my post with prices for a 9200, and they fall just within his budget. A 9500 or 9600 might be too expensive.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 22, 2004, 04:05:57 pm
A 9500 or 9600 can be found for about 100-120, as shown on this page: http://www.allstarshop.com/shop/subsection.asp?dept%5Fid=339&sid=RLBJUJC540RT8NC2M2HKEQSNLFV64VB0
The 9500 is $126, the 9600 is $109.
Title: Re: choose my next graph card
Post by: Splinter on January 23, 2004, 03:26:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
remember, i've got AGP2x.
what is RAMDAC?


ayet listen, an AGP8 cardd will run on agp 4 2 and agp 1 even jsut at those speeds... but heres the kicked there is a diffrence really of jsut miliseconds... so to say to watch out for a card that is agp 2 is jsut paranoined... go for the agp 8 itll run at agp 2 untill you get an agp 8 mobo... whats the problem? besides i dont think you can FIND and non agp 8 Graphics card around now adays. :p
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: pyro-manic on January 23, 2004, 07:20:27 am
Save a little bit more and get a GFFX 5700 (the only decent card they've done since the Ti4200), or a RAdeon 9600XT. Great performance for the cash. You can get both for about £120. :) I'm getting one of these when I get my new pootar (finally) next month.
Title: Re: Re: choose my next graph card
Post by: aldo_14 on January 23, 2004, 07:45:08 am
Quote
Originally posted by Splinter


ayet listen, an AGP8 cardd will run on agp 4 2 and agp 1 even jsut at those speeds... but heres the kicked there is a diffrence really of jsut miliseconds... so to say to watch out for a card that is agp 2 is jsut paranoined... go for the agp 8 itll run at agp 2 untill you get an agp 8 mobo... whats the problem? besides i dont think you can FIND and non agp 8 Graphics card around now adays. :p


A millisecond is a hell of a long time for a computer........  bear in mind that if you place an 8x AGP card in a 2x slot you will be losing a lot of potential performance because it can't get the maximum amount of data though the AGP.

There may also be a voltage difference to consider...I think some cards may only work on 8x voltage.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Splinter on January 23, 2004, 10:18:40 am
yeah well seconds in real time is not worth him getting an agp2 card when he can still use an agp8 card that just runs a tad slower.... and i was running for some months an agp2 card in agp slot.... no problems... its like memory... if you mobo only supports up to 2700 you can still buy 3200 DDR itll jsut run at 2700.... its all good.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: magatsu1 on January 23, 2004, 03:30:17 pm
If you can find a good one, I'd be inclined to get a 2nd hand Geforce3. Saw one at my works intranet, a 128bit Ti,  for £30.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 06:24:53 am
ok, i just got a Radeon 9600 128MB DVI-TV-Out. now,i am going to see if it will work.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 06:30:01 am
scratch that. i pressed the power button, the fans started, and i heard beep-beep-beep. ergo, wrong voltage on the AGP slot.

CRAP

i'll go buy something else.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: vyper on January 24, 2004, 07:03:16 am
:wtf:
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 09:57:18 am
ok, full story.

i go to the  computer store in the city because the local one is known tol be expensive, and i buy a Radeon 9600, wich should work on AGP 2x. it doesn't. i go back, get half my money plus a 9200 returned. i still hear beep beep beep. i go back, get all my money back, and i go to the local store in dispair. i get a Radeon 7000 for 40 euro's, and it works.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Kazan on January 24, 2004, 12:28:37 pm
how about i pipe in ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GEFORCE

call me a nVidia basher if you want but i'm probably the only person in here who regularily fixes random peoples computers and i've seen more than too many nVidia boards burn out


AND From an Computer Engineering standpoint nVidia video cards are total crap - they haven't redesigned their core since the TnT days - they've just been adding coprocessing units and praying that they can safely clock it up higher.  The HUGE cooling units required for their latested offerings are symptomatic of this lack of R&D.  Their competitors at ATI have redesigned their cores numerious times (R100, R200, R250, R300, R350) in hte last few years and have not had to increase the termal dissipation rate on their boards - in fact some of them (like the Radeon 9600 SE (R350) actually have only passive cooling, a downgrade in the thermal dissipation rate and they run like rocks).


all of nVidia's profits are because they were not reinvesting in research and developement of future GPU offerings and it has caught up to them with their latest offerings.  Talk to anybody who really understands hardware and they'll tell you this.  I've discussed this with people who have PhD's in Computer Engineering and they wholeheartedly agree.


ATI is the only real choice, choosing nVidia is going to the craps table


====================================================


Current Issue at hand
Wrong voltage on AGP slot? what is your motherboard

(a r7000 is still an upgrade from what you had... you must have a really old mobo thou....)
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 24, 2004, 01:08:00 pm
You need an AGP Rev. 2.0 card, I believe. Well, 1.0 or 2.0. Not quite sure which. Try a Ti4200, that might work.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 01:08:11 pm
my mobo is crap, real crap.

now, i got a nice, working radeon 9700.


BTW, both the Radeon 9600 128, 9200 64 and this 7000 64 have passive cooling.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Kazan on January 24, 2004, 01:22:23 pm
kasperl: my point exactly :D
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 01:29:24 pm
indeed.


now, any tips on getting a 3-5cm diameter P3 fan getting to be quieter? it is kinda dusty, how do i clean it?

Radeon's do seem cool, i have no case fan aside from the power supply fan wich is inavertably blocked by my IDE cables, and that tiny processor fan.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Gloriano on January 24, 2004, 01:36:19 pm
Kasp you did Chose fine card
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Kazan on January 24, 2004, 01:48:28 pm
clean the dust out with some compressed air

get a quieter fan? you should hear my cooling fan .... oh yeah.. you can't it's silent!

my core temperature doesn't even rise under load! (I have an Athlon XP 2500+ with a Coolermaster Aero 7+)
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Martinus on January 24, 2004, 01:57:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
I'm probably the only person in here who regularily fixes random peoples computers and i've seen more than too many nVidia boards burn out

[color=66ff00]I'm the computer fixer in my neck of the woods here, I rarely see anything Nvidia equipped though.

Currently celebrating the fact that I bought a Radeon 9800 pro 128mb, installs with ease, runs a treat. Bliss. :)
[/color]
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 02:48:20 pm
mmm, i sometimes fix other peoples machines, but it still isn't a real regular thing. mostly i fix the comp, and get paid per hour at the same rate as an averag babysitter. 2,50-5,00 € per hour really. which is quite a lot for the low amount of knowlegde i have.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Kazan on January 24, 2004, 03:21:41 pm
i fix friends puters for free, so i get a lot of traffic :D
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: kasperl on January 24, 2004, 03:27:14 pm
yeah, i don't have the time to do a lot, and i don't mind getting a bit of extra pocket money. my job basicly consists of hooking up speakers, and teaching people that if you put a typo in a email adress that it really won't work. and that you don't need a live net conn to write an email, not if you have POP.

so basicly, forgetting user=loser and switching back your mind a few steps.
Title: choose my next graph card
Post by: Grey Wolf on January 24, 2004, 03:32:57 pm
I help some people, but it's more light troubleshooting and hardware recommendations as opposed to serious repairs.