Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Raptor on January 23, 2004, 02:29:53 pm

Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Raptor on January 23, 2004, 02:29:53 pm
Since this thread:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,19967.0.html
has dropped back a bit, I'll start a new thread about my attempt at an Aeolus remodelling.

Please, no more disscussion about 'why we should or should not remodel V ships'.  We fairly ground that topic into the ground last time around.

And now, my progress so far:
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage1-1.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage1-2.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage1-3.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage2-1.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage3-1.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage3-2.jpg)
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Raptor on January 23, 2004, 02:30:43 pm
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage4-1.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage5-1.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage5-2.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage5-3.jpg)
(http://angelfire.com/space2/raptorsnest/Aeolus-stage6-1.jpg)

About that last one, which would people prefer, top or bottom?
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: diamondgeezer on January 23, 2004, 02:55:24 pm
I was going to ***** about not changing the design of the originals, but that second one is an improvement to the Aeolus to my eyes. Looks much meaner :nod:

If possible make the primray and secondary hulls (as it were) joined by girders with a tunnel in the middle or something
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: KARMA on January 23, 2004, 02:55:25 pm
I can tell what I'd probably have done, if it was impossible to find any concept, since this thing is really low poly with a couple of textures placed almost randomly.

the rear element is obviously an engine. make it so that it look like an engine, not an unrecognizable brunch of polys.
The nozzles are good, I just don't like the surrounding model.
It's the same of the original model, and this is the problem. Forget about "pick the original model and just add small details" since you can't do that with this ship.
Just use the original model as a general shape/proportion reference.

Then look at the connection between the engine and the hull.
Don't try to reproduce the details of a tiled texture.
Think instead at what :v: guys would have done if the had the possibility to use 6-7 times the polys they used on their model.
I can imagine a group of pipes, maybe asymmetrical, connecting the two parts of the ship, maybe with some kind of superstructure. Something like a nebulon-b in starwars, for example.
etc,etc..

what I mean is that you can't simply go rounding some edges and adding small details here and there. It's a lowpolymesh, with no details at all, nor in the model nor in the textures.
Think at what the model should have been, and not at what the model is.
Being the textures tiled, make it impossible for you to see "real" details to reproduce in your model, but also gives you an higher degree of freedom.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Stunaep on January 23, 2004, 04:35:45 pm
It's a battleship!

*applause*
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Bobboau on January 23, 2004, 09:09:45 pm
my herc was totaly remodeled useing the origonal as a guide, if you look though, it's an extreemly good match.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Setekh on January 23, 2004, 11:18:26 pm
I like your progress thus far and wholeheartedly agree with the hi-poly modelling effort, but why are the dimensions different? Shouldn't they be the same? Apologies if you've already argued this point, but I don't think ships should have their shapes changed at all.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Lt.Cannonfodder on January 24, 2004, 04:06:02 am
I agree that your version is an improvement over the original. It somehow looks meaner, and thus better :nod:
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Raptor on January 24, 2004, 04:59:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
I like your progress thus far and wholeheartedly agree with the hi-poly modelling effort, but why are the dimensions different? Shouldn't they be the same? Apologies if you've already argued this point, but I don't think ships should have their shapes changed at all.


I guess it's the fact that every time I've attempted to design an 'Aeolus refit' using the orginal dimensions, it nevery really looked good.  I've tried to get the new form close to the (very messy) original.

I see the Aeolus as a sleek, lean killer, which is easier to do on a slightly longer hull.  I *could* shift the rear engine pod forward a bit.

I have to admit I am getting a little stuck on how to detail this new mesh.  I'll look into a new 'neck' KARMA.

Poly counts
Orginal V mesh: 323 Trianglated
This new mesh: currently 1598 untrianglated (I'm working on a half mesh, then will mirror once UVmapping is done)

Oh, If anyone starts another Hi-Poly version of V ships, maybe they could post it here, I don't what to hog the whole thread! (KARMA, you metioned you might do the Demios next?:nod: )
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Nico on January 24, 2004, 07:25:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
I like your progress thus far and wholeheartedly agree with the hi-poly modelling effort, but why are the dimensions different? Shouldn't they be the same? Apologies if you've already argued this point, but I don't think ships should have their shapes changed at all.


I've come to the conclusion that I needed to change my mind n that particular point. Adding details over an identical shape, well, for one, is boring, and then, is barelly noticeable. I've started another higher poly valkyrie, which looks very cool... with raytraced shadows :doubt:. Adding all those bumps and stuff on a capship, since they're large, they're easy to spot. On a fighter, since there's no projected shadows, you can't even see the difference.
Then, where's the point? The ship must keep the same design, but sticking to the pixel to the original, well, kinda defeats the point of upgrading them.
That's what i think.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: KARMA on January 24, 2004, 07:49:07 am
yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Something like what I did on the Fenris can be done only in very very limited cases.
With the fenris it had a sense since there already were high-res good maps, and it was faster to create a model that could use them.
But with other ships, like this one, just reproducing the same :v: mesh and then adding minor details is not the way to go.
A major redesign is IMO necessary, using the original stuff only as general shape/proportions reference
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: magatsu1 on January 24, 2004, 08:12:13 am
which model proggy you usein' there Raptor ?

and uh, um, *cringes* what's "UV mapping" ?
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Deepblue on January 24, 2004, 11:46:31 am
:lol:
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Gloriano on January 24, 2004, 12:10:32 pm
Looks kinda good:)
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Taristin on January 24, 2004, 01:20:48 pm
Question: Why do you ave the wrong textures on the original Aeolus?
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Odyssey on January 24, 2004, 01:44:35 pm
[color=cc9900]I don't like it, personally. Try to use polygons constructively, rather than splashing out indiscriminately just because you can.[/color]
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Starks on January 24, 2004, 01:45:40 pm
That Aeolus has a serious case of cross-bite...
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Nico on January 24, 2004, 01:56:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]I don't like it, personally. Try to use polygons constructively, rather than splashing out indiscriminately just because you can.[/color]


can't be worse than the original mesh :doubt:
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Raptor on January 24, 2004, 02:44:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by magatsu1
which model proggy you usein' there Raptor ?

and uh, um, *cringes* what's "UV mapping" ?


TS 3.2 :nervous::shaking: 'Ducks behind fireproof shield'

UVmapping: Mapping textures onto a model.  Covers the good, Like the fighters and bombers, plus certain capships (ie Fenris), and the really bad, like the :V: Aelous

Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Question: Why do you ave the wrong textures on the original Aeolus?


Well, I didn't like the originals at all, so I edited the pof to use others which I did like. :nervous:

LLL: Crossbite?:wtf::confused:

KARMA: I understand were you're coming from, but if I made a whole new design, then it would no longer be a Aeolus, whould it?  Besides, I LIKE the overall shape, it's just the details that really bug me (I think the :V: mesh is second on the 'Messy' list, just behind the :V: Mjolnir)
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Nico on January 24, 2004, 02:48:43 pm
mmh, check the rahu, if you want a messy mesh :p ( iirc, there's even parts of lod1 in the main lod :doubt: )
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Starks on January 24, 2004, 02:58:12 pm
Crossbite is the opposite of overbite.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Unknown Target on January 24, 2004, 03:12:50 pm
Melikes, you didn't change the original too much at all, imo (just looks like you resized it). My only prob is that there's very little panel detail, and the bottom thruster looks asymetrical.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: magatsu1 on January 24, 2004, 03:15:07 pm
you're gonna have trouble joining the meshes if you do one half then mirror for the other. I'm using 4.3 and the booleans are still bobbins.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: mikhael on January 24, 2004, 04:06:58 pm
Best way around that, Magatsu is to NOT boolean. Use vertex welding.

I think the word you're looking for, LLL, is 'underbite', which the Aeolus has lots of. Funny thing about the Aeolus: its got one of the worst built meshes in the game, but its one of my favorite ships. Kinda like the Mjolnir.

Raptor, you're doing good work. :D
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Knight Templar on January 24, 2004, 08:54:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by LLivingLarge
Crossbite is the opposite of overbite.


That's some strange vocab/logic you got going on there..
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: KARMA on January 24, 2004, 09:15:23 pm
megatsu, there are two recent threads about your problem  and how to solve it, just search the forum
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: magatsu1 on January 25, 2004, 02:57:56 pm
well, seen as I started one of 'em :rolleyes:

I was just gonna give Raptor some early warning.
Title: Hi-Poly :V: ship models <IMAGE HEAVY>
Post by: Raptor on January 26, 2004, 02:33:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by magatsu1
well, seen as I started one of 'em :rolleyes:

I was just gonna give Raptor some early warning.


Ah, if I can, I use TS 6 for the mirroring bit (didn't what to do it right with that 'Ugly' Fighter I created, but worked with the Imperial Gunship:rolleyes: )

And before some asks, I find TS3.2 much easier to make meshs in than TS6.