Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: Raven2001 on January 28, 2004, 03:09:29 pm
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Could any of you coders make a simple external missile mod to the code?? Something like the missiles would be shown when not fired.
The main idea would be, to have the missile thruster coordinates to "dock" with the secondary point coordinates.
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Cool as external stores would be, it wasn't implemented the last time it was requested not the time before that nor the many times before that back to the beginning. It won't be this time either I suspect.
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DG suspects correctly. ;)
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One of the many reasons why I won't try starting another campaign again, actually :p
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:wtf:
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the things he want's never get implemented, therefore he won't be starting a new campane any time soon
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You're not happy with all the things that have already been implemented?
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You know, you could build a ship that had a special bay that only takes that one special missile/bomb.
It'd be lunacy any way to carry external munitions in the type of combat that FS2 simulates anyway.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
You're not happy with all the things that have already been implemented?
I am, but that's not what I need. But don't worry, I've given up with requests quite some time ago already.
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What DO you need?
Pounding your fists and pouting about it really doesn't help anybody, but if that's the game you want to play, in the end it's your loss.
Feel free to start learning some C++ and then you can implement all the things you want. We don't get paid for this, so feature requests are just that: requests.
Back before this was needlessly hijaaked...
External stores require large changes to critical code and thus is not a feaseable change at this time. Sorry. :(
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maybe in ferrium if that ever gets going.
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ive waited patiently and ended up getting 90% of the stuff i really wanted added to the game. i tend to post every idea i get though. id still like external weapons for pirate vessels.
i do have an idea for a makeshift solution however. if you could add the fire-triggered subobject rotation (as used in gatling guns) to secondaty weapons. then you could model a missile as a subobject with an offset center then when you fire, it would rotate inside the ship, where it would look like it had fired. only problem is it would only work once.
i wonder if you could have a subobject dissapear when you launch a missile. ships with external hardpoints would need missiles as as sub objects in the ships pof file. you could make a little piece of code that would remove one of those subobjects each time you fired a missile. you would put your missilepoints in the same spot as your missile subobjects. this meathod might be simpler to code.
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Maybe the missiles could be made into full subsystems/turrets so that they could be scripted (in the mission) to be "destroyed" when fired by the player and set back to 100% strength if a support ship docks with the player. If the weapon is big enough to be clearly visible, it would usually be a bomb anyway, so you could only carry a few of those at a time. However, all this would take a lot of effort and it would only work if you are using the appropriate ship and weapons.
Actually, this brings me to a sexp request that I have been thinking about for some time. I would basically like some event operators that determine whether or not a ship is of a given class and is carrying specified weaponry. Something like is-ship-class and is-ship-carrying-weapon. This would be useful for giving ship/loadout-specific orders to wingmen, whose ships and weapons can be changed around by the player and so are not known in advance by the mission designer. I have one or two places in PI where I could use the weapon one in particular.
The SCP releases now have pretty much all the major features I wanted in the original game and all I would really like to see are the the beam shield damage and event repeat bugs fixed and the memory issues dealt with. The only other addition I can think of is the ability to make missions without suns; currently, if no sun is specified in a mission, the game still puts one in somewhere.
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I cannot imagine a support ship reloading an external missile hardpoint. What is it going to do? extend an arm and hook'em on?
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The bombs would just kind of pop up there. Most likely the player wouldn't even notice this whole thing, which is why I think it's just too much work to be worth the trouble.
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not to mention if the external stores get hit, they may go off and take you with it.
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Although it would look nice eyecandy-wise, to me it doesn't seem logical in space combat to store missiles externally. What if they got hit before being launched?
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Originally posted by Sticks
What DO you need?
Pounding your fists and pouting about it really doesn't help anybody, but if that's the game you want to play, in the end it's your loss.
Feel free to start learning some C++ and then you can implement all the things you want. We don't get paid for this, so feature requests are just that: requests.
Back before this was needlessly hijaaked...
External stores require large changes to critical code and thus is not a feaseable change at this time. Sorry. :(
What with the nervous breakdown? Didn'y complain about anything, just posted one small sentence and everybody assume I'm mad or anything? Cool down, dude, it's bad for health :p
As for external stores, I kind of imagined that asking the engine to place a missile pof on the coordinates of the secondaries gunpoints, and removing one each time the trigger would be pressed would be feasible ( refining it so it fits with missile numbers when using different loadots could be done later, I suppose, and it'd need a ship.tbl tag for it to be enabled ), but as you kinddly pointed, I'm no coder.
Ransom: what if they get it? would be the same as for todays fighters: the missile would be damaged/destriy, and that's it. A non armed weapon doesn't blow up, Phreak.
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Erm, why wouldn't it blow up? even if the warhead itself doesn't explode, what about the fuel in the missile?
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Missiles use solid fuel I think. It needs the two components mixed to ignite. But yeah, I know, apache helicopters are famous for blowing up coz their hellfires have been shot by stray kalashinok bullets :doubt:
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or if a bomber has a helios stored on the outside and it gets hit. its an anti-matter weapon so theres really no way it can be disarmed. the AM containment fails and *boom*
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Am I the only one who has seen some decent Battletech/Robotech/Macross stuff?
Mechs have a decent rocket launcher system where the laucher opens up before firing and you can see the tips of the 5-20 missles/launcher before they blast off.
That kind of weaponry is the thing FS lacks now - massive missle arrays. Such a weapon would make sense for capships.
The same goes for the latest rapid fire machine guns - not gatlings, the guns with caseless ammunition with several bullets in a single barrel.
It would make sense to store those things externally - they would have heavy armor plating, but if they do blow up, it's much better to have them on the outside then the inner mechanics of the ship - your armor at least will still protect you, and you can jettison the whole turret/missle array.
I'm not asking coders to do anything - it is their time, and goodwill that has brought SCP this far so it's their choice to do whatever they want.
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Originally posted by PhReAk
or if a bomber has a helios stored on the outside and it gets hit. its an anti-matter weapon so theres really no way it can be disarmed. the AM containment fails and *boom*
And what about "external missile points look cool"?
And people keep saying to give a break with realism, to remember that FS2 is an arcade game? Man...
Funny you've never asked for the ships to be redone w/o glass cockpits, coz you know what would happen to a pilot ( with a non integral helmet, should I add ) if a single shot hits the said cockpit?
Give me a break, I'm 100% ok with the fact that it can't be done code-wise, but I don't give a damn about it not being done coz someone else doesn't like it.
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Originally posted by Flaser
Am I the only one who has seen some decent Battletech/Robotech/Macross stuff?
Mechs have a decent rocket launcher system where the laucher opens up before firing and you can see the tips of the 5-20 missles/launcher before they blast off.
That kind of weaponry is the thing FS lacks now - massive missle arrays. Such a weapon would make sense for capships.
Wasn't there a group that wanted to do a BattleTech/Battlespace Mod for FS2?
They should had made such things like an LRM20 on there caps.
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i would use external hadrpoints in several scenarios. the way i understand the freespace universe, the missile bay and reloading system is a gta system that the vasudans aquired during the formation of the gtva. the shivans use a similar system, they also use gtva weapons. i bet the shivans secretly buy weapons from the gtva, because i just checked the tables and couldnt find any shivan missiles. external hardpoints should be used in eighter non-gtva ships, such as pirate vessels or new species. they could be used in total conversions (such as the babylon project). or they could be used on weapons that are too big to stick in a bay (meson torpedoes :D ).
it would be a cool thing to have weapons that can be shot off the hull. most weapons use high explosives that are rather stable and require alot of energy to detonate (wich im sure a prometheus shot would provide). but that is only part of it, explosive charges are shaped to be detonated in a certain way in order to focus the blast forward. detonating the explosives in the wrong way may weaken the blast. nuclear weapons for example use precision shaped charges that must be detonated in a precise way in order to compress the fissable material and create critical mass. if the explosives detonate unevenly, the fissable material would be blown apart instead of being compressed (of cource uranium auto-detonates, meaning the liquid state exists only within a few degrees of tepurature, so if it heats up too fast it would blow up in a non nuclear way, depleted uranium is used in armor piercing shells). antimatter weapons are all about containment. if kept at absolute zero, antimatter is unreactive, there is actually and antimatter containment unit currently in existance (at some university somewhere) that uses this type of containment. it can hold several anti-atoms without destroying them. i have no idea how meson weapons work. in any case an external weapon would need to have an unlaunched damage tag, which would be applied to the the ship should it be shot off.
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if kept at absolute zero, antimatter is unreactive, there is actually and antimatter containment unit currently in existance (at some university somewhere) that uses this type of containment. it can hold several anti-atoms without destroying them
You know, while it's one thing to suspend disbelief for something like FS2, being completely wrong is another thing.
First. You can't get anything to be absolute zero. Violates the laws of thermodynamics.
Second. Even theoretically, any time anti-matter particles comes into contact with the opposite normal matter particle, they annihilate into a poof of pure energy, the amount is governed by e=mc^2
Third. The only way we've been holding any appreciable amounts of anti-matter (read miniscule beyong belief) is in beams of anti-protons held by magnetic fields in a vacuum inside particle accelerator facilities.
I've heard about physicisits creating anti-hydrogen but it promptly annihilated.
On the topic. Do we have multiple dockpoints implemented? Perhaps a sexp could be used so that the player can press a button to launch each particular external weapon. Each warhead could be a pof docked to the ship. Probably would be messy, but is it possible?
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no multiple dockpoints yet. and it won't happen, i've been told.
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First, please don't turn this thread into a physics lesson... this is a game, and I really don't care, and I'm sure many of the people doesn't too, about all those physics stuff...
second, when I mentioned dock points, I meant it as a metafor.
The idea was to use the thruster coordinates (the back of the missile), to coincide with the coordinates of the sec point. That way the missile could be rendered accordingly to its place, but not using docking code, just a simple code tweak that could render the missile like that before being fired.
I am no coder, and I do not understand a thing of coding, but I belkieve it would be a simple thing to do
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Dude, if it was simple it would be done by now as this method is proposed in every single external stores thread. Give it up :)
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That way the missile could be rendered accordingly to its place, but not using docking code, just a simple code tweak that could render the missile like that before being fired.
I am no coder, and I do not understand a thing of coding, but I belkieve it would be a simple thing to do
Interesting how they all say that :p
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well... okay I give up...
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A bit of advice: Proposing a feature, then following it up by saying "I know nothing about coding but I think this should be easy" pretty much guarantees that your request will never be implemented.
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i just mentioned what i heard. i dont mind being wrong, in fact id perfer accurate data. id like to debate this subject but im no physicist and this thread is not about physics.
but external weapons should have non-fired damage and hitpoints tags. hitpoints would be how much damage the weapon could take before blowing up, and non-fired damage should be how much damage (or a factor of the weapons damage) would be applied to the ship, should it run out of hitpoints.
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Originally posted by Goober5000
A bit of advice: Proposing a feature, then following it up by saying "I know nothing about coding but I think this should be easy" pretty much guarantees that your request will never be implemented.
:lol:
Especially when the request has already been rejected once as being too difficult :)
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Hey, at least it's better than saying "I know much more about coding than all you losers do and I say this should be easy, so do it." :D
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Gotta love the way people say that it's not realistic enough when the code change is hard to do, yet never complain about realism when it has to do with small things, like glass cockpits :D :p
Anyway, it would look COOL. And what's the difference between a modern-day fighter storing it's weapons on the outside, and a space fighter? Both can get shot up. Does it happen often? Uhhh....pretty much never. The ship has to go first, then the weapons go along with it.
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Also, I just thought of a way to do this with minimal code changes. Just tell the engine to draw the weapon even when it is not fired, as long as it has a flag, such as "draw_always" in it's weapons table.
So you just set the firing points just below the wings, and it'll always draw. Seems simple enough, imho.
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A more plausible reason not to do it is, who's going to actually see it? :p You would only see it in your own external camera view since you don't see your own ship model otherwise and the AI fighters die too fast for you to get any close look at where their missiles are coming from. :D
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Ok, so you could only see it when you're in external. Fair enough.
So what's the point of having different ship models for the player? I mean, after all, the only difference is the external mode. And the AI fighters die too fast. Just make three or four ships for each side, doesn't make a difference. Too much work :p
DER---because it looks COOL! And eyecandy is all that it's for!
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Actually, you're right about the first part there. The thing is that almost all ships used for the player are also used by the AIs at some point, so you would actually see them in that case. But they generally fire missiles only from 1000+ distances and you would not be in an external view while fighting someone (and launching missiles), so how would you see how cool it looks? :p
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Cause if you want to look at your own ship :p Plus, you have wingmates, which are often too close to you (i.e. colliding), and, you have hornets, which you're close enough to see (should they be hanging from racks), when you're on the tail of an opponent :p
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Eh why external missiles? Be happy with the SCP stuff! (No I'm not talking about their drugs :drevil: ) As long as they create massive shockwaves and blow everything up.
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Originally posted by CP5670
Hey, at least it's better than saying "I know much more about coding than all you losers do and I say this should be easy, so do it." :D
And our response to that would be "Ok, go code it yourself then." :p
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Well, if everyone's doing it: :p
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:wtf:
Could we get back to the subject? :D
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id love to see a bomber carrying a massive torpedo slung under its hull. it would be really cool being in the interceptor chasing the bomber, take out the torp, and take out the entire bomber wing.
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Not realistic, since your average torpedo shockwave is easily absorbed by shields...
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Not so in FS1. In FS2, they made a code change to prevent subsystems from being damaged by a weapon explosion. But back in FS1, if you were too close to an exploding bomb, you'd see half your subsystems knocked out. ;)
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That should be put back in, methinks :)
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Methinks too. Perhaps as a flag somewhere.
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yeah, I liked the subsystems getting blown out thing
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This is a table issue; here is what the Cyclops subsystem damage entry in weapons.tbl says:
;;reduced from 1.0 to 0.5 by MikeK on 8/28/99. Player shooting one down would often blow out player's subsystems.
So I guess it was done for play balance.
Cause if you want to look at your own ship Plus, you have wingmates, which are often too close to you (i.e. colliding), and, you have hornets, which you're close enough to see (should they be hanging from racks), when you're on the tail of an opponent
As I said though, you would probably die even against the crappy AI if you spent time in the external view instead of playing normally, and if you're chasing a guy (so that his back is turned towards you), I doubt he will be firing his missiles at you. So the only place you will notice it is if you go into the external view and fire some missiles randomly specifically to see the effect. :p Don't get me wrong, there are many such special effects I would like to see, but this one just seems like a lot of work for something that nobody will see during actual gameplay.
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Gotta upgrade from C to C++...
Fortunately as MVP i'm getting Visual Studio .NET for free...
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You'll still see them on your opponents racks, even if he's not firing them :p
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Could we get back to the subject? :D
Asked and answered. What's left to discuss? More ways to annoy the SCP by telling them that it's really simple and that it's just that their tiny brains couldn't understand how to do it? :D
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i wish i was a mod since then i would give this dead horse a proper burial or make some horse glue.
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Meh.