Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: diamondgeezer on January 31, 2004, 01:09:20 pm
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So here's the thing. I'm looking to take up some sort of arse kicking in order to impress the admirality in July. The Yellow Pages suggests the avilability of three possible paths to enlightenment - karate, kickboxing and tae kwon do. Since I know precisely zip about any of them, I was after some advice from anyone here who may have studied them.
And before anyone tells me jeet kun do is teh uber sweet, I'm limiting my options to what's actually available in my area :nod:
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Tai Bo all the way dude...
No, seriously, from what I've experienced Karate and Tae Kwon Do are pretty much the same concept (one from Japan, one from Korea I think) and I've never kickboxed.
I'd go with Karate or Tae Kwon Do.
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Tae Kwon Do seems to have a following at my uni, thats mainly by arseholes but I may be stereotyping based on the few i know. I intend to take up Judo when uni returns. Out of your options I'd take kickboxing - mainly 'cos the last person I met who did it was a chick.
I'll just shurrup now.
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Kung Fu maybe it's bit hard dunno
Karate fits everyone I think but it's kinda cool
kickboxing: seen it sometimes looked cool
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I actually prefer fencing and kendo, at least in theory. Of course, I'm not sure if those options are available to you.
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I've always wanted to take fencing, shame it isn't popular here in the US (at least where i am)
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Yeh fencing would be good but its not very easy to find a club for in Glasgow.
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two words:
KRAV MAGA
http://www.kravmaga.com/
run.....
:)
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Originally posted by vyper
Yeh fencing would be good but its not very easy to find a club for in Glasgow.
Strathclyde uni has one...even if you can't find one at Cally (it is Cally you're at, innit?), you might be able to wangle your way into it.
Think NUS rules would let you - might have to reggie with the sport union though, not sure.
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[color=66ff00]Ok, from the top:
Karate: You got Shotokan and wado ryu, two different 'schools' for want of a better description. Karate attempts to utilise force to defend against force. It's reasonably effective if you've a decent build and can take some knocks. Lots of straight, hard punching and kicking.
Kickboxing: Split into two main groups, sport kickboxing and combat kickboxing. Combat can be very effective if you spend the time to condition yourself (shins especially) it's a pretty realistic fighting art. Knees, elbows, shins etc. expect to get hard nuts practicing it. Sport isn't taken as a serious martial art though a practitoner would be able to take on the majority of Joe "drunk 'n disorderly" Public.
Tae kwon do: Korean, as someone else mentioned. Extremely popular due to it's flashyness. Like kickboxing split into sport and combat styles. 70% emphasis on legs, 30% everything else. Flexability is key and if you have bad knees forget about it. Skilled poponenets of the art are the guys doing 540 roundhouse kicks, axe kicks and anything else you'd see Van Damme do in one of his movies. Schools are everywhere so it's easy to find one, especially at universities from what I've seen. Sport is akin to the kickboxing form, in the sport version if you turn from your opponent they stop attacking. How often does that happen in the street.
I'm 6 foot two, 9 and a half stone max., not particularly flexable but fast and reasonably agile. I can't use brute force as I'd get my butt handed to me so I use wing chun, a fast, compact form of kung fu. It relies on redirection of force to make the opponent go where you want them to. Pretty popular (most poular form of kung fu) and relatively fast to learn the basics. No kicks above the waist (generally) and a lot of concentration on handwork. Pretty darn effective when utilised by a reasonably skilled practitioner. You are unlikely to pull a muscle even if not warmed up hence it's good for streetfighting and general tussles.
I'm obviously biased as I think Wing Chun is the most effective form but if you want to learn general neck kicking skills then pretty much any competent teacher of any of the styles will be able to teach you good, basic defense. I'd try to stay away from 'hard' styles (using force against force, victor is usually the stronger specimen) like those you have mentioned but to be honest any of them will take time and dedication.
BTW this is a pretty simple description of all of the arts so I kinda ommitted some details though the basic points are good.
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I did fencing in college. Its one of those "hey this looks easy.. OH MY GOD CAN I JUST RUN A MARATHON PLEASE" sports. It tricks you. I had an insane amount of fun though.
On topic, I'd say go for karate or tae-kwan do, with a preference toward tae-kwan (there's usually a greater emphasis on overall physical fitness with tae-kwan do). Failing that, Tae-Kwan Leep is always great fun.
BOOT TO THE HEAD!
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Tae Kwon Do. I took it back in the day, and it's pretty cool 'cuz you do all the cool kicks and stuff but you also learn to fight with a fist, unlike karate where you do a lot of open handed stuff.
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Karate rules, helps forging a pretty great waay of thinking, and when used the right way it's pretty effective.
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Originally posted by pasti
two words:
KRAV MAGA
http://www.kravmaga.com/
run.....
:)
Now that looks good.
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screw them all. stick to guns.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
Strathclyde uni has one...even if you can't find one at Cally (it is Cally you're at, innit?), you might be able to wangle your way into it.
Think NUS rules would let you - might have to reggie with the sport union though, not sure.
How much is it to join ur sports union?
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Originally posted by vyper
How much is it to join ur sports union?
Not sure.... think it may be 15 squid. You'd probably have to ask 'em.
Edit - it's gone up a fair bit, now £20. Bit pricey, that.........
http://www.sportsunion.strath.ac.uk/suweb2/welcome.htm
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Your sports union's site... its... informative... I'm not used to this! :eek:
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Maeg has summed up the arts pretty well.
However, I recommend you check out ALL of those classes for a lesson or three. See which one you click with. See which instructor you feel you can trust the most and would like teaching you. See which club boasts the most impressive and friendly senior students. Having a good learning environment and teacher is definitely just as important as the style you learn.
There is also a trend for clubs in Taekwondo and Karate to be called "McDojo" - these schools offer substandard training and in turn swallow your wallet with money for expensive and frequent gradings, training fees, and equipment costs.
So don't think style only. Think instructor, think cost, think environment.
My humble two pence.
Jack
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"McDojo?" :eek: The Golden Arches have a new franchise?
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My vote is for Wing Chun, it's good for turning other peoples strength against them, also, after a while you do flag, sword and knife work (Oddly enough, I enjoyed the flag work most!)
If you are bigger built, Shotokan is a good form of karate to use, since it seems to be developing into a mixture of Karate, Judo and Street Fighting, my old 6th Dan japanese instructor used to say 'Where man's balls go, rest of him follow' when teaching self defence.
I always found Tai Kwon Do was only good as long as you weren't up against anyone who does Ju-Jitsu or Judo, both wrestling techniques,TKD is pretty useless against them ;)
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Ive done abit of all 3 in the past so Id like to think that what Im about to say wont be complete waffle.
Tae kwon do is supposedly the most scientifically structured martial arts around today as it only came into existence in 1960 or so in Korea, I think, due to its waring history and the desire for its people to be able to defend themselves. Its pretty structured and all about using momentum while keeping the body pretty rigid to do extra damage. Like was said its a striking art so theres very little grappling or holds. Its more practically oriented then Karate though, with alot of emphasis on sparing after certain grades have been reached.
Kickboxing is a real scrappers fighting method. Focuses alot on physical fitness and patches movements and holds/grappling from all forms of other techniques. Very freeform sparing and EVERYONE does it, even if its your first day. Gets interesting when you get a few belts under you and they start sparing you against the blackbelts.
Karate then was long ago but I remember it being very structured, lotsa discipline and forms. Wadu ryu concentrates alot on stick fighting as it was developed I think as the sword was being phased out.
Hmmm far as I can tell that does sound pretty convincing. Enjoy the bruises.
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Originally posted by vyper
Your sports union's site... its... informative... I'm not used to this! :eek:
Yeah, well it only took them 3 1/2 years to get that far........
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Meditate and memorise all the Pressure Points.
Simple, easy and more effective than any amount of training.
If you remain calm, have strength and think while fighting you can take down any opponent.
Simply await an attack then take every opportunity to punch a pressure-point and/or grab-n-throw the attacker into the nearest big-n-heavy thing.
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Originally posted by Assassin
Maeg has summed up the arts pretty well.
However, I recommend you check out ALL of those classes for a lesson or three. See which one you click with. See which instructor you feel you can trust the most and would like teaching you. See which club boasts the most impressive and friendly senior students. Having a good learning environment and teacher is definitely just as important as the style you learn.
There is also a trend for clubs in Taekwondo and Karate to be called "McDojo" - these schools offer substandard training and in turn swallow your wallet with money for expensive and frequent gradings, training fees, and equipment costs.
So don't think style only. Think instructor, think cost, think environment.
My humble two pence.
Jack
[color=66ff00]An immensly valuable 2 pence. :nod:
BTW an0n isn't actually on the wrong end of the stick with what he's saying. The chinese refer to pressure point striking as 'Dim mak' or death point striking; somewhat analogus to acupuncture except obviously used to harm instead of heal.
Consider this though; one thing that learning a martial art will teach you that is critical is timing. I and a great many more skilled people than me consider it the most fundamental skill of a good fighter. You also pick up sensitivity to body language and awareness of the space around you. It's more than just learning to hit people, it's learning not to get hit, what your body is capable of and a whole plethora of other things too. :nod:
BTW talk to aldo, being a scotsman he's most likely trained in fuk yu, the ancient scottish art of headbutting and kicking them when they hit the ground. :D (thank you Mike Myers)
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[q]KRAV MAGA[/q] anyone know if that's widespread in the UK? Looks cool 2 me.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
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BTW talk to aldo, being a scotsman he's most likely trained in fuk yu, the ancient scottish art of headbutting and kicking them when they hit the ground. :D (thank you Mike Myers)
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Ah, yes. The Glaswegian Kiss and the Edinburgh Hand-shake.
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[color=66ff00]Being non eastern it doesn't quite have the same draw as karate etc., it's bloody effective though, bloody effective. I've never heard of a school in the UK but I rarely look into anything like it.
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[q]Ah, yes. The Glaswegian Kiss[/q]
Or a screw top bottle, depending on one's location and state of sobriety.
[q]Edinburgh Hand-shake.[/q]
Bah, East of Scotland ain't anything like the west. ;)
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Despite some half hearted hijacking attempts, this thread has proven most useful. I shall contact some karate and TKD schools to see if I can get a taster sesh or somesuch.
I'll let you know when to start phearing my awesome ninja skillz
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[q]I'll let you know when to start phearing my awesome ninja skillz[/q]
[q]"Ph34r teh penis" - diamondgeezer[/q]
Oh so much humour. :lol:
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Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Despite some half hearted hijacking attempts, this thread has proven most useful. I shall contact some karate and TKD schools to see if I can get a taster sesh or somesuch.
I'll let you know when to start phearing my awesome ninja skillz
[color=66ff00]May the schwartz be with you DG.
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karate or taekwondo if you want to be like the mainstream... if you want to show off more than actually fight, and if you want to learn faster.
kung fu if you want to learn slower, but become much more effective, not showing off, and the benefits are much, much greater than with one of america's karate or taekwondo schools, which are geared for 99% show 1% combat.
or you could go all out and take an internal art :drevil: . i'd say Bagua, but then again i'm biased too ;) Any internal art will take a long time to master, but 10 years from now you'll be awesome
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I also suggest taking up boxing and weights to some extent as it vastly increases your: power, stamina and fighting flexibility.
No-one expects a crane-kick to be followed by a full force right-jab.
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And to back that up, get yourself a nice Glock 17. You never see a full force right-jab followed by a shot to the head either.
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Ninja-swords are more effective.
Sure, the prospect of being shot is pretty scary, but the prospect of slowly being carved up is an entirely different kettle of fish.
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I've been doing Karate and Kickboxing for the past 2, 2 1/2 years so I can offer an informed opinion. I tried TKD as well.
In real terms, it depends mostly where and who you train with.
Kickboxing at my place is mostly combos. Punchs, Kicks, Elbow and knee strikes etc. Not much grappling. Kickboxing is governed by boxing rules, as you might expect.
Karate is kinda like a bit of everything. Grappling, "take downs", Kicks, Punches, Joint manipulation etc. Lots of cool stuff.
TKD is mostly fast flurry of hard kicks. A bit mental really.
that's just my own personal experienc/opinion/observations 'course.
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Originally posted by magatsu1
I can offer an informed opinion.
Dear god, no! You'll destroy the very foundations of the internet!
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Snooker ball in a sock.
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Maeg, how did you get to know so much about fighting styles? :)
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The Irish are almost as nuts as the Scots.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
The Irish are almost as nuts as the Scots.
[color=66ff00]Thankyou good sir, now take it back before I break your face. ;)
The martial arts in general is one of my main areas of interest, hence I've done an awful lot of reading on the subject. The only problem you'll come across on the whole is that everyone thinks their martial art is the best and martial arts history, as a rule of thumb, is not to be taken as fact.
My main interest is the chinese martial arts (not to be confused with the marital arts which is a whole different kettle of fish ;) ), specifically the 'soft' styles that Stealth has mentioned previously (Hsing-I, baguazhang and taiji chuan) I don't pretend to know the actual arts to any degree of proficiency though.
I study Wing chun as I read a lot about it and it seemed to be the most sensible art for me to learn, I also did 2 years of ninpo taijitsu, a japanese martial art that is more commonly called Ninjitsu or Ninja by american film makers (I didn't actually get to the level where I could spontaneously flip out and kill people though ;) :lol: ). My friend is an avid practitoner of Ninpo taijitsu now (he's far above the level I attained) and he does Tae kwon do regularly too, I've learned a lot about both styles from him and from reading I've done on my own.
The more I study the martial arts the more I realise that ultimately there are fundamentals that exist in almost every style, Bruce Lee wrote a great deal on this subject, especially what makes an art effective...
I'm going to stop now because I could write pages on the subject and I simply don't have the time. :D
As for who has an informed opinion; I have an objective opinion, informed opinions are for those who think they know everything about what they're talking about and I'm sure I'm only at the foot of a vast mountain of information that I've been pursuing for the last 6 or 7 years. :nod:
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Didn't Bruce Lee steal all the best bits from other martial arts and combine them into modern Kung Fu?
And Ninjitsu has more political bickering than a meeting of the UN.
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Originally posted by an0n
Didn't Bruce Lee steal all the best bits from other martial arts and combine them into modern Kung Fu?
And Ninjitsu has more political bickering than a meeting of the UN.
[color=66ff00]True on both counts, unfortunately ninjitsu suffers from McDojo syndrome, all these idiots running around claiming the ability to vanish and other such nonsense.
Most of the problems seem to lie in the fact that the traditions that the arts were founded on are under-emphasised by some, over-emphasised by others, ignored by quite a few and concocted by (thankfully) the very few.
Then there's all that clan business which makes for interesting 'discussion' too (our substyle is better than your substyle). :blah:
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Thankyou good sir, now take it back before I break your face. ;)
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http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/nedagotchi/glaSurvivalGame.html
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if you've expirience tae kwon do and tae bo to be almost the same thing then you went to an ITF-style tae kwon do school (most of the US is ITF style), ITF is 'sport-style' redesigned to only be a good workout and not an effective combat art. Part of the reason why it's soo light contact in sparing -- they don't have the endurace to last through a real match, nor do they have the proper technique to last out a moderator (or full) contact match without hurting themselves
I train under grandmaster Pak, he teaches WTF style -- ITF is nothing next to WTF -- we regularily have WTF orange belts (3rd rank) beating ITF blue and brown belts (5th, 6th ranks). When I was a mere orange belt I personally knew a couple ITF dans (Dan = black belt) that I could beat.
Tae Kwon Do was invented aroud 3000 to 4000 years ago by a korean general, he designed to be highly effective and to be able to be learned quickly, and mastered with practice. Modern WTF Tae Kwon Do's techniques are optimizied and revised by the grandmasters taking [mostly] the physics of the technique into accou to maximum damage potential while mimimized stress on the person performing the technique. ITF is designed to be a work out. Despite WTF and ITF basic differences in the philosophy driving their fundamental design they do share the same fundamental techniques, althought execution of said techniques is very subtly different. Those subtle differences in execution make a world of difference though and a skilled practititioner can feel the difference in the potential of the technique immediately. The largest commonality throughout Tae Kwon Do is it's leg-centrism. The legs are used as the primary means of attack with hand techniques used primarily for defense, but some highly effective hand techniques exist.
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Originally posted by aldo_14
http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/nedagotchi/glaSurvivalGame.html
[color=66ff00]Priceless mate.
BTW Kazan have you ever heard the story about the sport tae kwon do guy who was mauled? He turned his back in a street fight assuming that the attacker would back off (as per the rules of that form of TKD).
Saw it in the news somewhere.
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my grandmaster would say "moron"
idiot got what was coming to him.. jackass..... a someone backing of as per the rules of any sport when it's a real fight.. rotfl..
You know what Pak would have us do? quickly and efficiently kick the guys ass, then leave
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Priceless mate.
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That is true to life, too.
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Darwin Award?
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]As for who has an informed opinion; I have an objective opinion, informed opinions are for those who think they know everything about what they're talking about and I'm sure I'm only at the foot of a vast mountain of information that I've been pursuing for the last 6 or 7 years. :nod:
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If that was for my benefit, I just tried to give DG an idea of what I had figured in real terms. I don't claim to know everything about fightin'.
Hey, did you know of the 5(or so) guys outside of the US fully trained to teach Bruce Lee's style (Jeet Kun Do, Intercepting fist or something) 2 are in Edinburgh and one in Manchester !
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[color=66ff00]Another bunch, trained by Dan Insanto (one of Mr. Lee's students) are out teaching as well. Supposedly one of them teaches in my town at a sports club. Never took the time to check it out though.
And you got the translation spot on magatsu1, it's the way of the intercepting fist or foot. :nod:
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There's a jeet kun do school in Kettering, if you believe what they print in the Yellow Pages.
I'm going to attend a karate class tomorrow eveing, to see what happens. They claim to be the 'official' Leicester karate club. THey better be good after a statement like that.
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They might be able to break Yellow Pages books in two...
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Tae Kwon Do is "The way of the hand and foot"
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[color=66ff00]Kick, punch, block. Says it all really doesn't it. :nod:
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Eh. Crowbar beats karate in a fair fight every time. Or, for that matter, any martial art that doesn't involve flying and that freaky force-ball thing those guys did in Street Fighter.
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I tend to like "Way of the exploding shrapnel"
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Eh. Crowbar beats karate in a fair fight every time. Or, for that matter, any martial art that doesn't involve flying and that freaky force-ball thing those guys did in Street Fighter.
[color=66ff00]Quarter circle forward and punch. HADOKEN!
You could do that if you hid an aerosol up one sleeve and a piezo sparker up the other. ;)
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Oh believe me, I'll be learning how to do hadokens. Obviously start with a beginner class, but eventually move up to advanced classes with weapons and fireballs
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stryke 9: actually someone with a grow bar going after a martial artit is just raising the probability that THEY get injuired no the martial artist -- any good martial artist knows the principle of redirection
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and any better martial artist that sees someone coming for him with a crowbar will just pull out his glock.
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[q]with weapons and fireballs[/q]
Could be useful if ur ever caught needing a light...
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Yeah, eat enough shrooms and you'll be able to through fireballs.
wheee.....
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stealth:you';re out of ammo, now what do you do
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Originally posted by Kazan
stealth:you';re out of ammo, now what do you do
then the martial artist will rely on skill, and hopefully he knows how to redirect force (as you said), such as in Tai Chi or Bagua... if all he knows is Karate or TaeKwondo, then he's most likely screwed
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i personally want to learn how to fight with a sword. cause it's cool.
and, just to get it out:
"Making movies, making songs, and figh'in 'round the world!"-Russel Crowe :D
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Originally posted by Carl
"Making movies, making songs, and figh'in 'round the world!"-Russel Crowe :D
I hadn't watched South Park for a while before I saw that ep, but it was damn funny. :D
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Roight, here goes:
I've been fencing for nearly 6 years. Welsh U18 champion twice, 16th in the British U18s, and won a few other competitions :thepimp: . It's good for fitness and reflexes, but it's useless for self defence. If you want to kill people with swords do Iaijutsu.
I've been practicing Lau Gar Kungfu for about 18 months. What others have said is true - you won't get incredible skills overnight, but give it a decade and you'll be rather hard. :D
It's good for general fitness, flexibility and strength/stamina, and at medium/high levels you learn knife/stick defence, and then advanced weapons such as the broadsword (like a large machete), spears, butterfly knives, etc.
Lau Gar is quite different to Wing Chun. Wing Chun is based on very fast, hard-hitting strikes (including high kicks) and avoidance of attacks (AFAIK), whereas styles like Lau Gar use more blocks and hand techniques.
It depends what you want to do, really - if you're huge, do Judo. If you're tiny, do Wing Chun or Flower Fist Kungfu. You might also want to look at Jiujutsu or Aikido, which share elements of Karate, Judo and Iaido, and give a broad range of techniques to choose from (strikes, locks, grappling and weapons).
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I suspect, without saying the word 'Stealth', that certain people in this thread are talking out of their arses. No offence
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Dan Insanto (one of Mr. Lee's students)
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In the original Game of Death, Uk release, his whole fight scene (in the tower) was cut. Probably cos' it involved weapons.
So he appears in the title credits but is only in the film for like 5 seconds, and doesn't do any fightin'.
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Originally posted by pyro-manic
Roight, here goes:
Lau Gar is quite different to Wing Chun. Wing Chun is based on very fast, hard-hitting strikes (including high kicks) and avoidance of attacks (AFAIK), whereas styles like Lau Gar use more blocks and hand techniques.
[color=66ff00]Wing chun is the martial art of hand techniques. The entire principle of the art is to stick to, redirect and control the opponent. As such there are three 'forms' better known as 'katas' for those who know japanese m.a. seeing siu lim tao form will give you a taster for what the art is all about. There are of course leg techniques including the fairly famous 'sticky leg' techniques, kicks are almost always waist height or below.
In wing chun it is said that defense is in the legs, attack is in the arms.
It is worth mentioning that wing chun is a shaolin invention, it was designed to turn an untrained person into a proficient fighter in less time than the other existing shaolin forms required. In that respect it was and still is successful.
In wing chun the arms and hands block, redirect, trap, grab (though never utilising the thumb) strike; order of precidence is finger jabs, knuckles (bottom three knuckles, unlike the more traditionally used two top knuckles in most other chinese and japanese m.a.) base of the palm (numerous areas around the palm actually), elbow and finally shoulder.
Almost all strikes aim for the centerline of the body where most of the sensitive points lie and almost all of the hand and leg techniques guard this line on the practitioner. Fighting is generally very close quarters, very fast and immensly subtle at times.
I consider it to be very clever. :nod:
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Went and watched a beginner class just now. I'll be starting a new course in a couple of weeks.
Interesting mix of people, from middle aged men who couldn't keep up with the kids to schoolgirls who looked like they had the skills to kick my arse. The instructor dude was cool - he was flinging his arms around so hard and fast his suit kept making a whiplash noise :D
Tell you struck me was they way off the mat everyone was laughing and joking and trying to slap each other around the head, but as soon as they stepped on to mat it was instant buisness-like concentration. Seems like a good work ethic.
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I was always told to remember you fell like, proper daft throwing clumsey kicks etc and struggling, but everyone else was like that to begin with. Even kick-arse 5th Dan black belts who've been training for 20 years or whatever.
Good advice that.