Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Black Wolf on February 04, 2004, 05:00:08 am

Title: Model competition?
Post by: Black Wolf on February 04, 2004, 05:00:08 am: Can we have another one? But unlike the last abortive attempt, I think we should make it pretty solidly defined from the beginning. Suggested Rules:

1. Contest is open to all registered HLP members

2. Mods must be "new", ie. not publically shown on HLP before. Internal campaign mods, mods already on peoples HDs but not shown etc. etc. are acceptable as new

3. Polycaps of 1000 for fighter/bombers, 5000 for capships. This is likely to ruffle a few feathers, but I think they're fair compromises between what HT&L can do, and what Joe Average is used to modelling for FS2.

4. Upgraded models from user modeldumps can not be accepted.

5. Models must be submitted in relatively stable (in game) pof format, and use FS hierarchy for Turrets and the like. This may seem biased towards more experienced modders, with stuff like Karajorma's and others Turreting Tuts, and a fair amount of tie to ask for help on the forums, things should balance out.

6. Partnerships not acceptable, except in modeller/texturer partnerships.

7. Winning categories

- Best Untextured Fighter/Bomber (all F/Bs are entered in this category, regardless of whether textures are supplied or not)
-Best Textured Fighter
- Best Untextured Capships (all Capships are entered in this category, regardless of whether textures are supplied or not)
-Best Textured Capship

Winners could be judged by admins (if willing) and perhaps a few well known modders/community figures (eg, Icefire and Hunter(Webmasters) Wildwolf (Late of V)) who may not want to enter. (Again, only if willing)

All entries in by, say, a month from Saturday? 4 days for people to notice the comp (and no doubt debate the rules), and a month to make the models.

So, opinions? Willing contendors/judges?
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on February 04, 2004, 05:15:38 am: Quote
Willing contendors
oooh yeah. you have one here :D :yes:
great idea. i've been absent mindedly wondering if there would be another one for a while now. t'would be great to see what comes of it. :nod:
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 04, 2004, 06:17:20 am: 1000 polys for a fighter is a bit low, and you haven't specified if they have to be originals (no star-wars, no star trek, no b5 etc)
and...
a month for a complete model/textures?????? are you kidding???
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Black Wolf on February 04, 2004, 08:22:38 am: 1000 polys for the main lod - as I said, it's a compromise between traditional FS limits and the HT&L ones. 12 months ago, 1000 was practically impossible for fighters after all.

And I think a month is reasonable. Much longer and the contest drags on too far. It isn't ideal I'll admit, but I think there'll be more problems with a longer time period to be honest. Still, nothings final yet, so it's still 100% debateable, as is the non original stuff (Personally, I'm not that fussed, non original stuff is less creative, but takes just as much skill, andwould probably be scrutinized harder anyway, evening out the fireld)
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Taristin on February 04, 2004, 08:36:33 am: I'd like to try. Too bad I can't use the Vasudan ships from TVWP... :doubt:
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 04, 2004, 09:31:21 am: All my new models are going to be >1000 polys now, tho. Unless you want to count a dropship as a capship.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 04, 2004, 10:16:07 am: Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
I'd like to try. Too bad I can't use the Vasudan ships from TVWP... :doubt:
Mm, why not? Not that I'm deciding one way or the other, but can you elaborate?
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 04, 2004, 11:46:44 am: well I'm surely slow, but a month for models/textures is a bit low unless I reduce quality.
And I'm not sure I want/can spend time for something different than SW conversion.
and you really should go for a polylimit of 2k triangles for fighters: I was breaking your 1k limit even in vanilla fs2:p
Title: Model competition?
Post by: c914 on February 04, 2004, 12:00:49 pm: im on it:D
im jut finish ISD and go to work on hmm mayby vasudan cap or some terran stuf....
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Odyssey on February 04, 2004, 12:19:31 pm: [color=cc9900]I think one month is perfectly reasonable - I've been known to do an almost fully completed (bar final POF tweaking) vanilla FS2 freighter in one afternoon, and that includes time teaching myself how to texture the damn thing. So, yeah, one month, fine by me. Now I need inspiration.[/color]
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Taristin on February 04, 2004, 12:40:37 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Mm, why not? Not that I'm deciding one way or the other, but can you elaborate?

Would you mind if I showed off vessels from Chapter two? I want to use that crim one, but I'll have to texture it first. Or perhaps both crim ones, if I'm ambitious.

They are, however, not high poly, just damn cool looking. :)

And I'll have to try out Vasudan capship designs that are different than the carrier I made.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Bobboau on February 04, 2004, 12:46:53 pm: a month isn't too short of an amount of time, it shouldn't take you more than a week if you have a good idea (most work getting done in the first day or two)
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 04, 2004, 12:48:55 pm: well I can spend a month or two only in texturing, and usually do...
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Unknown Target on February 04, 2004, 12:50:25 pm: Three thousand would be a better polycount for fighters, imo.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 04, 2004, 03:19:22 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Raa Tor'h
Would you mind if I showed off vessels from Chapter two? I want to use that crim one, but I'll have to texture it first. Or perhaps both crim ones, if I'm ambitious.

Start an internal thread.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Martinus on February 04, 2004, 05:10:12 pm: [color=66ff00]Just enter the design a destroyer competition in the art forum. ;)
[/color]
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 04, 2004, 05:40:44 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
a month isn't too short of an amount of time, it shouldn't take you more than a week if you have a good idea (most work getting done in the first day or two)

Not if you're working from 9 till 9 every day........
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Anaz on February 04, 2004, 06:27:26 pm: Well, BW, why don't you do it on your own?

Unless you were planning on entering...
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Bobboau on February 04, 2004, 07:04:51 pm: I wake up at 8:00 am, go to school, after that I go to work, stay there untill between 7:00pm to 10:00 pm, with this + homework and things like eating and sleeping, I still made that high poly herc in about two days
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Knight Templar on February 04, 2004, 07:27:33 pm: I'm Game. :)
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Beowulf on February 04, 2004, 07:30:23 pm: Count me in.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: phreak on February 04, 2004, 07:52:03 pm: how about a n00b category for those losers like me who can't model if their life depended on it.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Black Wolf on February 04, 2004, 08:36:59 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Anaz
Well, BW, why don't you do it on your own?

Unless you were planning on entering...

I'm more than willing, and I'm not planning on entering myself, I just thought it'd probably get more contestants if it had a stain of leitimacy to it (ie. Run by the administration) is all. Plus I'm not sure if I could be entirely impartial, so we'd need at least one or two more judges.

Quote
Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Just enter the design a destroyer competition in the art forum. ;)
[/color]

I had actually thought about the Destroyer contest, but that does have a fairly limited potential contestant base (ie only those that do capships). Also, that competition really should have an attitude whereby everyone's helping each other out, trying to achieve the best result for FSUp. This is about individual achievement, and can thus be as bloodthirsty as anyone wants to make it :D

On the subject of using internal mods, while don't know the exact internal rules and regs of the TVWP internal, having "Winner of the HLP 2004 model contest" on the staff page or tech room can't be a bad thing :D
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Setekh on February 05, 2004, 03:10:38 am: *dons Judge's wig*
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Black Wolf on February 05, 2004, 04:26:48 am: w00t :) First Admin Judge all sorted :)

PM being dispatched.

Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
how about a n00b category for those losers like me who can't model if their life depended on it.

That might be an idea that, though perhaps as a sort of subcategory. New modders enter into standard categories, but with a Newbie flag attatched somewhere. Then the best overall new model gets a sort of wildcard category - could be a fighter or cap, textured or untextured, whatever.

Also been thinking about the polycount Issue - Karma's brought up a good point when he mentioned triangles - TS users are going to have an advantage over Maxers and other autotriagnulizers as TS can use half the faces to produce a smiliar effect - perhaps if we increased the count a little (say to 1500) and required triangulization? Would this be an acceptable compromise?
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 05, 2004, 05:37:47 am: Diump the polycount restriction altogether, and just base it on whether it'll run in FS when converted. The judges can use the polygon count vs appearance as a judge, rewarding good modelling rather than spammy use of polygons.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 05, 2004, 07:09:53 am: actually 1500 triangles is less than 1000 polys....
Title: Model competition?
Post by: StratComm on February 05, 2004, 07:49:41 am: 1500 triangles can be less than 1000 polys, but it doesn't have to be. In order to be "Freespace Stable" (at least by the old standards) you had to virtually triangulate most models anyway, and so the ultimate polycount would be quite similar to the triangulated count. If someone comes up with a 1000 poly fighter that has significantly more than 1500 triangles, he either has the highest-poly flying brick of all time or has done something wrong.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 05, 2004, 08:01:52 am: I remember I got an awing of 1400 triangles working with 850 polys;)
Title: Model competition?
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 05, 2004, 10:03:20 am: Aldo has the best idea in the bunch. Cuz you'll have people out there start throwing up polies and have ships that look like poo. This way everyone is happy.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Bobboau on February 05, 2004, 10:41:31 am: well with the lighting model the way it is haveing a high density of polygons will look better, it's more important that no section of the model has a greater density of polgons than any other now
Title: Model competition?
Post by: J3Vr6 on February 05, 2004, 11:05:03 am: Now I wish I had a computer to try to model something :(
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Killfrenzy on February 05, 2004, 11:22:15 am: What do we win anyway? :D
Title: Model competition?
Post by: karajorma on February 05, 2004, 12:09:48 pm: Bragging rights for one thing :)
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 05, 2004, 01:36:12 pm: Bear in mind mapping is more important than polygons when it comes to visual quality, though.... unless you're talking models which are too high poly for a game engine.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2004, 08:18:56 am: So is this a go, then?
Title: Model competition?
Post by: KARMA on February 23, 2004, 08:25:20 am: I'll submit a bulk freighter for the SW conversion, deeply modifyed from the original design, as soon as she's ready. And I'm at about 40% of the texturing
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2004, 08:27:41 am: i probably wouldn;t start till after the 16th next month (my big, big, big project handin date), to be honest. Just curious.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Flipside on February 23, 2004, 12:08:20 pm: Also, doesn't Freespace traingulate everything when it loads it anyway, so the actual number of polygons in the Main model is somewhat irrelevant? I'm pretty certain DirectX doesn't like anything other than 3-sided polys.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Bobboau on February 23, 2004, 12:12:31 pm: FSO triangulates everything when it loads it for HTL mode
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2004, 12:19:33 pm: Of course, those of use using Max have our models auto-triangulated anyways.............
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Ghostavo on February 23, 2004, 01:34:01 pm: Is the model competition only open for fighters and capships or can an instalation or sentry gun model be allowed to participate?

:nervous:
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2004, 01:50:04 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Is the model competition only open for fighters and capships or can an instalation or sentry gun model be allowed to participate?

:nervous:

I believe it is open to any type of model. 'cept cargo pods.
Title: Model competition?
Post by: Ghostavo on February 23, 2004, 02:01:37 pm: Oh... come on... just one cargo pod... please? ;7 :D

Now, what are the poly limits on the other types?
Title: Model competition?
Post by: aldo_14 on February 23, 2004, 04:59:22 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Oh... come on... just one cargo pod... please? ;7 :D

Now, what are the poly limits on the other types?

none, insfoar as I can tell - it just has to work in FS2 (including HT&L). Of course, the more polys the use, the better quality the model will need to be to justify them.........